Yes We Can ( Archived) (78)

Sep 24, 2010 10:40 PM CST Yes We Can
gardenhackle
gardenhacklegardenhackleStratford, Connecticut USA55 Threads 9 Polls 2,067 Posts
Obama's election proved that the much-embraced fallacy that "You can't get ahead in this country unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth" is absolutely false. Born of a broken home, he was a black man who started life poor. His family was poor. He didn't have the benefit of wealth or prosperity within his family to guide him. And yet, whether you agree with his political platform or not, he rose to the highest position of power in this country and did it at a very young age and with very little "political experience". He didn't even finish a single term as senator before winning the highest executive job in our government, president of the United States.

When will his supporters embrace "Yes We Can" as an attitude and inspiration in their own lives, abandoning the fallacy that "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and that's just that". It's simply not a fact. Poor can become rich and rich can become poor in this country. Some, like MC Hammer and Mike Tyson disproved both sides of that.

There are countless "self made men" in this country that started with very little or even nothing and made good or even fabulously opulent lives for themselves through their own efforts and industry. And they come from all walks of life; white, black, hispanic, Asian, etc. Many even came from other countries, landing on our shores with very little in the way of money or social networking.

Obama's election is proof positive that there is no "glass ceiling". The "glass ceiling" isn't a REAL barrier that just can't be seen, but is instead an unreal barrier that people want to see.

If ever there was a time for the "disenfranchised" to ditch "No We Can't" and embrace "Yes We Can", that time is now. I've yet to see anyone better themselves by rationalizing that there's not really any point in trying since they "can't succeed", anyway. But will that happen? Will people abandon their victim mentality now that we have living, breathing, walking, talking proof that ANYONE can pursue their dreams AND advance themselves even if they aspire to be the president of the USA.
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Sep 24, 2010 11:00 PM CST Yes We Can
BellaTheRebel48
BellaTheRebel48BellaTheRebel48Minneapolis, Minnesota USA7 Threads 2 Polls 242 Posts
Allright...I'll bite!!

I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth. In fact, they're still back home in my room in my jewelry box.

I did not know about extreme poverty of inner city ghettos until I ran away from an abusive husband, ran to Baltimore, MD and discovered the gritty, dark side of life. I was so disgusted how people lived that I rolled up my sleeves and got to helping.

I didn't just speak with elected officials, I helped set up soup kitchens, called the media and held press conferences to get the word out that the City of Baltimore wanted to tear down the only healthcare facility for the homeless and turn it into a park for rich city dwellers.

I filled City Hall, testified, the homeless testified and Healthcare for the Homeless was spared.

There is such a huge drug problem in Baltimore as to be unreal. The government give the former heroin addicts methadone and the government gives them so much that those people are like weebles that wobble but don't fall down.

I've seen clinics here in Minnesota that dispense methadone, but the clients are NOT leaning almost to the ground.

I've challenged the NAACP to do something about the high inner city poverty and crime rate in its own back yard, in Baltimore and the NAACP would rather scream and yell about a confederate flag atop the state capitol building in South Carolina instead of doing something constructive about the illiteracy rate in the city of its headquarters.

I've worked in homeless shelters for homeless men, homeless women and children.

So, don't tell me that just because Barack Obama made it, that everyone else can walk in his footsteps, that just isn't the case.

Everybody CANNOT just pull themselves up by their bootstraps!

Children of drug addicts are in homeless shelters with a grandparent, with the grandparent working two jobs and the child has to go to school from a homeless shelter.

I've seen so much poverty, as I've stated before...it's ludicrous, ridiculous and unnecessary when corporate CEOs can run their companies into the ground and get rewarded with millions of dollars in bonuses. I would NOT get a bonus for bringing MY business to its knees!very mad very mad very mad
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Sep 24, 2010 11:27 PM CST Yes We Can
gardenhackle
gardenhacklegardenhackleStratford, Connecticut USA55 Threads 9 Polls 2,067 Posts
BellaTheRebel48: So, don't tell me that just because Barack Obama made it, that everyone else can walk in his footsteps, that just isn't the case.


Well, of course, everyone can't rise to be the president of the United States. But everyone can challenge themselves to take charge of their own lives and pursue their dreams and ideals. I've yet to meet anyone that whined their way to success.

Everybody CANNOT just pull themselves up by their bootstraps!

True. But they're the exception to the rule, not the rule. The surest way to fail at pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is to not try. That's 100% sure to guarantee failure.

And now we have a shining example to hold up that proves that neither your color nor your social class nor your family's influence or lack thereof makes anyone a hopeless victim here.

How much money corporate CEO's make has nothing to do with any of that. Someone else's success, earned or not, takes nothing from either you or me. Bill Gates doesn't have a single dollar of mine that I didn't decide to give him by purchasing Microsoft products. He's fabulously wealthy. Good for him. That doesn't affect my life or my opportunities or my self-esteem in any way because that would just be silly.

No one in this country that's poor HAS to stay poor unless they are too disabled to do anything productive. The rest of us can work our way up. Maybe not as fast as we'd like, but with persistence we can get there. What's ironic to me, Bella, is that you've had the "advantages" I didn't have but you see "can't do" and I see "can do". According to the "rich get richer and poor get poorer" philosophy, it should be the other way around.
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Sep 25, 2010 12:14 AM CST Yes We Can
gardenhackle
gardenhacklegardenhackleStratford, Connecticut USA55 Threads 9 Polls 2,067 Posts
BellaTheRebel48: Go ahead!! Live in YOUR dreamworld!! Have it YOUR way!! Once again, I'm NOT going to get into a back and forth with you. You've seen what you've seen in life and I have seen what I've seen in life.

I've not walked a mile in YOUR shoes and you've not walked a mile in MINE!!

So, keep your head in the clouds and enjoy the view from

...and from somebody who encouraged people to "go into a police station and piss on the desk," you've got some nerve to write of hope when racial profiling is very real. The city of Minneapolis has settled so many cases of police brutality, I'm surprised the city has any money left over for public services. Think what you will, I don't give a damn!!!


I see. You thought I was recommending pissing on a police offer's desk as a good way to get a sammich. That explains it. It was, instead, proof that hundreds of people don't have to die of starvation or from freezing to death. It's the logical proof that there IS an alternative and I went so far as to provide the most rock bottom last-resort recourse I could imagine. There are a lot of better options, but just that alone was something I thought would provide reasonable evidence that death isn't "forced" on anyone.

Maybe now you can put some of that anger away.
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Sep 25, 2010 1:26 AM CST Yes We Can
BellaTheRebel48
BellaTheRebel48BellaTheRebel48Minneapolis, Minnesota USA7 Threads 2 Polls 242 Posts
gardenhackle: Obama's election proved that the much-embraced fallacy that "You can't get ahead in this country unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth" is absolutely false. Born of a broken home, he was a black man who started life poor. His family was poor. He didn't have the benefit of wealth or prosperity within his family to guide him. And yet, whether you agree with his political platform or not, he rose to the highest position of power in this country and did it at a very young age and with very little "political experience". He didn't even finish a single term as senator before winning the highest executive job in our government, president of the United States.

When will his supporters embrace "Yes We Can" as an attitude and inspiration in their own lives, abandoning the fallacy that "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and that's just that". It's simply not a fact. Poor can become rich and rich can become poor in this country. Some, like MC Hammer and Mike Tyson disproved both sides of that.

There are countless "self made men" in this country that started with very little or even nothing and made good or even fabulously opulent lives for themselves through their own efforts and industry. And they come from all walks of life; white, black, hispanic, Asian, etc. Many even came from other countries, landing on our shores with very little in the way of money or social networking.

Obama's election is proof positive that there is no "glass ceiling". The "glass ceiling" isn't a REAL barrier that just can't be seen, but is instead an unreal barrier that people want to see.

If ever there was a time for the "disenfranchised" to ditch "No We Can't" and embrace "Yes We Can", that time is now. I've yet to see anyone better themselves by rationalizing that there's not really any point in trying since they "can't succeed", anyway. But will that happen? Will people abandon their victim mentality now that we have living, breathing, walking, talking proof that ANYONE can pursue their dreams AND advance themselves even if they aspire to be the president of the USA.


Oh, no..you're not getting away with that!! Why didn't you include Bernie Madoff and Tom Petters, both ran pyramid schemes, went from extremely rich to sitting in prison and we also have Denny Hecker, owned a multitude of car dealerships, a rental car company, home mortgage company and now can't afford an attorney and is in and out of court with a public defender.

No need to thank me for helping you out by naming others who amassed fortunes and lost them and are now incarcerated
.

So, I guess homeless children have the "victim mentality" of which you speak...and of course, when you're a child in a homeless shelter, you've got a LOT of HOPE!!

For the love of....!!!doh roll eyes
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Sep 25, 2010 1:44 AM CST Yes We Can
BellaTheRebel48
BellaTheRebel48BellaTheRebel48Minneapolis, Minnesota USA7 Threads 2 Polls 242 Posts
gardenhackle: Well, of course, everyone can't rise to be the president of the United States. But everyone can challenge themselves to take charge of their own lives and pursue their dreams and ideals. I've yet to meet anyone that whined their way to success.
Everybody CANNOT just pull themselves up by their bootstraps!

True. But they're the exception to the rule, not the rule. The surest way to fail at pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is to not try. That's 100% sure to guarantee failure.

And now we have a shining example to hold up that proves that neither your color nor your social class nor your family's influence or lack thereof makes anyone a hopeless victim here.

How much money corporate CEO's make has nothing to do with any of that. Someone else's success, earned or not, takes nothing from either you or me. Bill Gates doesn't have a single dollar of mine that I didn't decide to give him by purchasing Microsoft products. He's fabulously wealthy. Good for him. That doesn't affect my life or my opportunities or my self-esteem in any way because that would just be silly.

No one in this country that's poor HAS to stay poor unless they are too disabled to do anything productive. The rest of us can work our way up. Maybe not as fast as we'd like, but with persistence we can get there. What's ironic to me, Bella, is that you've had the "advantages" I didn't have but you see "can't do" and I see "can do". According to the "rich get richer and poor get poorer" philosophy, it should be the other way around.


So, on YOUR planet, everyone who is whining(children in homeless shelters and slums included) and poor adults need to cease the whine and get with the program or "piss on a desk at a police station."

Garden, come back to planet Earth, we miss you!! You claim in earlier threads that you were at one time extremely down and out, why didn't you practice what you preach and "go to a police station and piss on a desk." As someone posted in your previous thread, "try it!!!" Then come back here and tell us what happened!
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Sep 25, 2010 7:13 AM CST Yes We Can
Proudamerican100
Proudamerican100Proudamerican100Somewhere, California USA2 Threads 1 Polls 570 Posts
I actually feel Obama was a bad example. Sometimes it is not what you know but who you know. After all he achieved this magnificent example by having the queen of day time TV, one of the smartest and richest women in America, who almost single handily bought the meat producers in Texas down by one swoop of her hand or mouth , who has made and broken many people the one and only Oprah Winfrey backing him. How many of these homeless poor people have that clout or ever will? Yes, they should all strive to be all they can be. But the majority will never have the chance due to circumstances of life to fulfill their dreams. And many of their dreams are simple a full belly and a home. I came from lower middle class parents. We were poor I just did not know it as a child. And I know it has been the inner drive in me that has put me where I am. And a lot of people are not born with that fight. Yes, I believe something's you just are born with. I wish Oprah had of liked me.sigh
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Sep 25, 2010 7:52 AM CST Yes We Can
gardenhackle
gardenhacklegardenhackleStratford, Connecticut USA55 Threads 9 Polls 2,067 Posts
Proudamerican100: I....And I know it has been the inner drive in me that has put me where I am. And a lot of people are not born with that fight. Yes, I believe something's you just are born with. I wish Oprah had of liked me.


"Inner Drive.... something your born with or not is irrelevent. If you don't have what it takes to do what you have to do to get where you want to go then you need to accept that what you have is what you deserve. Any lack of inner drive on one person's part isn't the fault or responsibility of anyone else. The WILLINGNESS to accept responsibility for your own life and do what you must do in order to better it is the key to success in this country and probably any other. If one's dreams are a full belly and a roof over your head, those are pretty damned easy dreams to achieve and simply working for a living will get you there.

Where anyone in this country ever got the notion that they are owed food, shelter, clothing, health care, retirement and x-amount of pocket money just for living here is beyond me because that's not the way life works. If you want to spend your days hanging out in the hood with homeboys, dodging the fuzz, snatching purses, smoking crack, making babies, drinking Colt45 on the streetcorner while shooting craps, that's your business. And when you finally wake up and realize you've pissed your life away by doing that instead of directing your energies into being a productive member of society, don't whine about how you were "kept down" and are "owed" this, that or anything else. The people who put their energies into things like self-education, working, saving, biting off huge school loans to pay off for years and years.... well, they don't want to hear it. One person's success isn't a debt to the people with no drive.

The thing I heard more than anything else when talking to homeboys from the hood when discussions about making a living come up were typically along the lines of "I ain't working for peanuts to make some fat guy rich". Yeah, that "working for a living" thing just doesn't suit their self-image of importance and entitlement.

Inner drive.... knowing that if you don't go out and earn what you want it's not going to happen for you and wanting it to happen bad enough to do something about it. It's not a matter of people "not having it". Everyone has some inner drive. Where they direct it is what makes all the difference.

Liberals will not like hearing that. Conservatives will likely agree with that. And since any sort of "middle ground agreement" about SOME nature of personal responsibility required of citizens in this country isn't going to be happening any time soon, there will be a huge rift between the two philosophies. "You have too much and the government should take it from you and give it to people who didn't do what you had to do to earn what you have" is never going to sit well with people who did the earning but will always be the desire of those who feel the world just "owes them" a living. The world doesn't owe anyone anything and living in a land with the opportunity to move wherever you want, seek employment wherever you want, educate yourself however you want....... that's as good as it gets. Do something with that opportunity. That's the message that should be communicated. YES WE CAN.
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Sep 25, 2010 8:16 AM CST Yes We Can
gardenhackle
gardenhacklegardenhackleStratford, Connecticut USA55 Threads 9 Polls 2,067 Posts
It's obvious that not everyone knows how to "get ahead" in free societies. So here's a list that's not all-inclusive by any long stretch of the imagination. It is a list of things that people with little to no resources can do.

* If you don't have a job, look for work. Every day. All day. Keep doing that until you get work and go back to places that might hire you as often as necessary in order to let the know that you're not just trying to meet some quota of "interviews" in order to get your subsistence check from the government.

* Study. Learn. No money? Go to the Pulic Library. English is a good place to start. Your chances of getting a good paying job are inversely proportional with your insistence on speaking Gangsta or Ebonics instead of English like everyone else.

* Do volunteer work. Doing something positive is good for you and it's good for the community. It will help you expand your social networking and there will be people in your life seeing that you are capable of and willing to work.

* Be honest and trustworthy. Establishing yourself as a liar or thief does not help you earn the trust of potential employers and isn't exactly a great way to make friends that could help you, either.

* MOVE where work opportunities are more plentiful. If you don't have anything where you are, you've got nothing to lose by not having anything somewhere that has more opportunities for you.

* Lose your druggie, punk friends. They don't want you to get ahead and leave them behind and they will drag you down.

* Think about a shoestring startup business of your own that could be anything from washing cars to walking dogs and infinite possibilities in between.

* SAVE MONEY. Whatever you do have, SAVE IT. The day you realize you need a suit and tie in order to present yourself well at the interview for a job you've finally got an interview for... well, that's not the time to realize that spending all your extra pennies or dollars on beer and a new tattoo might not have been the wisest use of your limited resources.

Essentially, treat "getting a full time job" as a full time job. Once you have a job, it's always easier to get a newer/better one and you've got the upward mobility you've desired.

This stuff is simple stuff. It's doable stuff. It's stuff that the people who explain their lot by "the man be keepin' me down" DON'T bother doing. At least none of them that I've met ever did. NONE of them.
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Sep 25, 2010 9:20 AM CST Yes We Can
TrueBlue1986
TrueBlue1986TrueBlue1986Sale, South Manchester, Cheshire, England UK1,322 Posts
Me and perhaps nine or ten others went on to university from my high school year of around two hundred pupils, most of them now are either stacking shelves, answering phones, on benefits, pushing prams or pushing pills.

If social class didn't work either for or against you in life, there wouldn't be such things as private schools, private tutors and other advantages only the rich can afford in the first place, their purpose would be redundant.

Anyone can reach anywhere, but when you're starting from the bottom you have the farthest to go.
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Sep 25, 2010 10:17 AM CST Yes We Can
gardenhackle
gardenhacklegardenhackleStratford, Connecticut USA55 Threads 9 Polls 2,067 Posts
TrueBlue1986: Anyone can reach anywhere, but when you're starting from the bottom you have the farthest to go.


That's a fact. There's no denying that having wealthy parents makes life easier.
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Sep 25, 2010 11:12 AM CST Yes We Can
gininitaly
gininitalygininitalyPadova, Veneto Italy23 Threads 2,454 Posts
But yes, if you have a fire in your belly.... you can still be successful in America... if that's your desire.
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Sep 25, 2010 11:45 AM CST Yes We Can
gardenhackle
gardenhacklegardenhackleStratford, Connecticut USA55 Threads 9 Polls 2,067 Posts
He has a particularly good opportunity to pursue his agenda for now because he's got overwhelming majority in congress. Most presidents in history had much more opposition with the last two being good examples of that. Opposition is normal and in that, Obama has it about as good as it can get. I expect it to get stiffer after November, though .
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Sep 25, 2010 11:45 AM CST Yes We Can
gardenhackle
gardenhacklegardenhackleStratford, Connecticut USA55 Threads 9 Polls 2,067 Posts
He has a particularly good opportunity to pursue his agenda for now because he's got overwhelming majority in congress. Most presidents in history had much more opposition with the last two being good examples of that. Opposition is normal and in that, Obama has it about as good as it can get. I expect it to get stiffer after November, though .
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Sep 25, 2010 11:45 AM CST Yes We Can
gardenhackle
gardenhacklegardenhackleStratford, Connecticut USA55 Threads 9 Polls 2,067 Posts
He has a particularly good opportunity to pursue his agenda for now because he's got overwhelming majority in congress. Most presidents in history had much more opposition with the last two being good examples of that. Opposition is normal and in that, Obama has it about as good as it can get. I expect it to get stiffer after November, though .
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Sep 25, 2010 11:50 AM CST Yes We Can
jvaski
jvaskijvaskiunknown, California USA115 Threads 11 Polls 9,576 Posts
This country's problems are much more than the Obama story.

There's a serious problem with ignorance, backwardness and ethics that's deep- rooted in many. mumbling
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Sep 25, 2010 11:53 AM CST Yes We Can
jvaski: This country's problems are much more than the Obama story.

There's a serious problem with ignorance, backwardness and ethics that's deep- rooted in many.
It's all George's Fault of Course!

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Sep 25, 2010 11:55 AM CST Yes We Can
BellaTheRebel48
BellaTheRebel48BellaTheRebel48Minneapolis, Minnesota USA7 Threads 2 Polls 242 Posts
"In 2007, Deamonte Driver, a 12 year old from Prince George's County(Maryland)died after an infection in an untreated tooth spread to his brain."

"A child had to die before academic, industry and government took action. A dental action committee was formed that won local aid for local health centers, streamlined the Medicaid program and sent dental hygenists into the community to provide screenings, they gained commitments from dentists to treat poor children."

"The worry now, however, is that the bad economy will set back efforts and that there will be less money for care at a time when people are losing their jobs and private healthcare."

baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal_to.hs.dental

So, garden...while you were in another "hood" hanging around and sterotyping Colt45 drinkers stating that "they didn't want to work to make some fat cat richer," a child who could not take himself to a dentist and pay for the dental work died. So, I suppose the 12 year old just didn't have enough "inner drive."

YOU, in the "hood"????!!!! If the thought of THAT wasn't SO ludicrous, it would be funny! roll eyes uh oh
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Sep 25, 2010 12:12 PM CST Yes We Can
BellaTheRebel48
BellaTheRebel48BellaTheRebel48Minneapolis, Minnesota USA7 Threads 2 Polls 242 Posts
"The Pew Center looked at U.S. incarceration through 2007 and found 2.3 million people incarcerated and that that is double what it was in 1982 giving the U.S. the highest incarceration rate on the planet."

"The Justice Policy Institute recently estimated annual state, federal and local spending on incarceration at $68 billion. State spending is 60% of that."

"The U.S. has only 5% of the world's population and 26% of the world's incarcerated population." This doesn't even make any sense!

"Although black people account for only 12 percent of the U.S. population, an estimated 44 percent of all prisoners in the United States are black."

"Census data for 2000, which included a count of the number and race of all individuals incarcerated in the United States, revealed a dramatic racial disproportion of the incarcerated population in each state;the proportion of blacks in prison populations exceeded the proportion among state residents in EVERY SINGLE STATE. In twenty states, the percent of blacks incarcerated was at least 5 times greater than their share of resident population."


Obviously there's a hell of a lot of pissing on a desk in a police station going on(in da hood)!

Oh and since this news is disturbing to me, let me instead of drowning MY sorrows in champagne, go in search of some Colt45 malt liquor, since garden found out that that is the beverage of choice in da hood!
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Sep 25, 2010 12:14 PM CST Yes We Can
gininitaly
gininitalygininitalyPadova, Veneto Italy23 Threads 2,454 Posts
Bella, I think we're on the same page.
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