R.I.R.A. Funeral (96)

Sep 12, 2012 7:03 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
sofarsogood74
sofarsogood74sofarsogood74Dublin, Ireland40 Threads 4 Polls 2,711 Posts
Phoenix: That includes the PSNI, Loyal Orders etc..But everyone lays the lions share of the blame for the troubles/ violence etc at the door of Irish republicans..It seems on every level people want republicans to simply shut up and go away. Doesn't sound very democratic to me.


WTF do armed Republican groups (terrorists) know about democracy???roll eyes
Sep 12, 2012 7:03 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
Phoenix: That includes the PSNI, Loyal Orders etc..But everyone lays the lions share of the blame for the troubles/ violence etc at the door of Irish republicans..It seems on every level people want republicans to simply shut up and go away. Doesn't sound very democratic to me.


I am not singling out any particular group.....was just because one side was at the core of this thread.
I think they all should quit it. all sides, equally.
Sep 12, 2012 7:41 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
sofarsogood74
sofarsogood74sofarsogood74Dublin, Ireland40 Threads 4 Polls 2,711 Posts
facetowardsfront: I think most people wouldn't even notice unless it was on TV when their favourite soaps, sports, XFactors etc were not on. Don't underestimate the stupidity, selfishness, ignorance and cowardice of the Irish people.



I think you're talking about yourself there rather than Irish people as a whole.roll eyes laugh
Sep 12, 2012 9:53 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
royallee
royalleeroyalleeMeath, Ireland46 Threads 5 Polls 865 Posts
What I cant seem to grasp at all is this:

These Republican paramilitary groups claim to be fighting for a 32 county Ireland, the withdrawal of British occupying forces, blah blah........"its the same old theme since 1916"



It is not unseemly for a man to die fighting in defense of his country.


Homer, The Iliad




ireland roll eyes
Sep 12, 2012 9:56 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
Ah I dunno Phoenix. Time's a passing. Nobody wants them anymore. There is Zero reasons to be armed Republican nowadays. This country has crossed the Rubicon already.
Sep 12, 2012 10:05 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
royallee
royalleeroyalleeMeath, Ireland46 Threads 5 Polls 865 Posts
MADDOG69: Ah I dunno Phoenix. Time's a passing. Nobody wants them anymore. There is Zero reasons to be armed Republican nowadays. This country has crossed the Rubicon already.



WE may not want them anymore...........true, but WE are free to make that choice here in the 26 counties.............a freedom that was paid for with the loss of many lives........... how easy the young dismiss the past and how little they value others lives, sad !!!!!! sad flower
Sep 12, 2012 11:00 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
royallee: What I cant seem to grasp at all is this:

These Republican paramilitary groups claim to be fighting for a 32 county Ireland, the withdrawal of British occupying forces, blah blah........"its the same old theme since 1916"
It is not unseemly for a man to die fighting in defense of his country. Homer, The Iliad



It is unseemly for a man to die fighting in defense of his country.
Homer, the Simpsons.
Sep 12, 2012 11:08 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
royallee
royalleeroyalleeMeath, Ireland46 Threads 5 Polls 865 Posts
snowlynx: It is unseemly for a man to die fighting in defense of his country.
Homer, the Simpsons.


It might as well be.............uh oh giggle
Sep 12, 2012 11:56 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
whitepaws: Some even went on to build flats in Dundalk and dublin.... And who needs a silly fire certificate


by the looks of Mcfeely now hes sure made up for that crash diet he was ongrin
Sep 12, 2012 12:04 PM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
facetowardsfront
facetowardsfrontfacetowardsfrontCork, Ireland42 Threads 1 Polls 2,921 Posts
MADDOG69: Ah I dunno Phoenix. Time's a passing. Nobody wants them anymore. There is Zero reasons to be armed Republican nowadays. This country has crossed the Rubicon already.


There are still 6 counties in British hands. If I recall Republicanism is about a 32 Country Ireland. At least that's what Sinn Fein used to stand for or said they stood for. What has changed?
Sep 12, 2012 12:45 PM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
facetowardsfront: Yeah, all I'm saying is nothing has changed, so why should anything be different.

I'm not sure of your angle? Are you questioning why the PIRA disbanded even if NI still remains British? Pragmatism I suppose. Once you dig enough people just wanted to live normal lives in a place where discrimination didn't happen. Outside of misty eyed rebel songs people just want to get ahead. So, the PIRA had no support beyond this.

This requires a lengthier explanation though. Back in the '80's Enniskillen was a major PR blow for the 'RA. And, as absurd as it sounds, was a disaster for the more Dovish elements within militant Republicanism. Alongside of this, the realisation that they could not wear down the crown by paramilitary methods, and exposed some of the risks of the Cell structure which they employed. The conciliatory voices, although still only a whisper, started to get louder and louder. Enniskillen, privately, was held up as sign that things were not going as planned. On the other side of the fence, the Brits after catching that yacht full of explosives and weapons concluded that the 'RA had enough material already imported to maintain their current operations for at least a generation. MI5 then did a report saying that they could never fully break the IRA and that it had maintained cohesion and would continue to do so in perpetuity in the political climate at the time (early '90's). So.... around the same time, both sides realised that what they were doing was going no where. Even with the British security services embedded in much of the structure... to main tain that they had to become part and parcel of the organisation. it was dirty dirty work. Some say that Enniskillen was aided and abetted by handlers. The idea that MI5 operatives were actively protecting IRA rank and file from arrest by RUC is something many have never grasped. And that is how it was.

So anyways... that's why it changed. Hume and Adams made a bridgehead to each other. The Brits got negotiating... anytite the Brits stalled, a bomb went off. Canary Wharf was one such bomb. Brits were back to the table the next week. And so it went. Both sides recognised something had to happen and Labour who then came into power, forced the issue, with Bertie, the hero of our times laugh forcing the other side.


Let no one EVER think that we have peace because people suddenly started smoking hash and got loved up on Es. We have peace because the people with guns, on both sides took 30+ years to realise that it wasn't working. If for ONE second either side thought guns would still work there would still be violence. And, as it turns out there is still those that do think it might work.
Sep 12, 2012 4:08 PM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
facetowardsfront
facetowardsfrontfacetowardsfrontCork, Ireland42 Threads 1 Polls 2,921 Posts
You are saying that the PIRA got tired of fighting and/or was defeated. Fair enough but the political situation that was the justification for their war has not changed, i.e. the occupation of part of our nation by a foreign state. The justification for the struggle still exists today as it did before. The only way Sinn Fein/PIRA can condemn current republican militarists is if they admit there was never any justification for their own war and it was in totality a criminal campaign.
Sep 12, 2012 4:28 PM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
facetowardsfront: You are saying that the PIRA got tired of fighting and/or was defeated. Fair enough but the political situation that was the justification for their war has not changed, i.e. the occupation of part of our nation by a foreign state. The justification for the struggle still exists today as it did before. The only way Sinn Fein/PIRA can condemn current republican militarists is if they admit there was never any justification for their own war and it was in totality a criminal campaign.

No. Sinn Fein just say, 'things changed (we're in part power now after grabbing most of the nationalist vote from SDLP)' and that's them patching that little thing up.
Sep 12, 2012 6:08 PM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
facetowardsfront
facetowardsfrontfacetowardsfrontCork, Ireland42 Threads 1 Polls 2,921 Posts
MADDOG69: No. Sinn Fein just say, 'things changed (we're in part power now after grabbing most of the nationalist vote from SDLP)' and that's them patching that little thing up.


I know that's what happened but you know what I'm saying too. Republicanism was about ending British rule on this island not getting a share of it. If armed struggle was right then it's right now. If it's wrong now it was wrong then.

All I see is the PIRA/SF saying, "we have been penetrated, we are tired, we are being offered a good pay off and participation in the British administration so the war is over and you lot had better stop too." Not very convincing.
Sep 12, 2012 6:55 PM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
facetowardsfront: I know that's what happened but you know what I'm saying too. Republicanism was about ending British rule on this island not getting a share of it. If armed struggle was right then it's right now. If it's wrong now it was wrong then.

All I see is the PIRA/SF saying, "we have been penetrated, we are tired, we are being offered a good pay off and participation in the British administration so the war is over and you lot had better stop too." Not very convincing.

It might not be convincing to you and to others. And it does seem a bit hypocritical on the face of it. And to a small number of RIRA/CIRA or whatever phoenix said they are now...but that's how they got the majority nationalist vote.
The distinction been also that the 'war' with guns is over, but it's just moved to Stormont.
Sep 13, 2012 5:08 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
danny85
danny85danny85dublin, Dublin Ireland27 Posts
It will be very hard to prove anything, sure their faces were covered, also a man was shot and the guards are more interested in arresting people that attended his funeral, surely the ones that murdered him should be a bigger priority
Sep 13, 2012 6:29 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
Phoenix
PhoenixPhoenixBelfast....., Antrim Ireland274 Threads 65 Polls 6,948 Posts
sofarsogood74: WTF do armed Republican groups (terrorists) know about democracy???


Same as people in Dail..They know their version of it.
Sep 13, 2012 6:33 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
Phoenix
PhoenixPhoenixBelfast....., Antrim Ireland274 Threads 65 Polls 6,948 Posts
mcattack: I'v heard some people call it the highest form of emotional blackmail...not my view though of course


What is your view mc. I'd be very interested (Sometimes in life your body is the last weapon you have).
Sep 13, 2012 6:37 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
Phoenix
PhoenixPhoenixBelfast....., Antrim Ireland274 Threads 65 Polls 6,948 Posts
sofarsogood74: I think you're talking about yourself there rather than Irish people as a whole.


I think face said this "Don't underestimate the stupidity, selfishness, ignorance and cowardice of the Irish people. {/i]"

That about sums up the majority of Irish people sofar. SImply look at the state of the economy and how many people gripe about it but do nothing about it. If the same bad buisnees ethics happened in France today. The french would be protesting on the streets of Paris today.y

Why are people in debt..They got greedy during the tiger. Why are they stupid. They borrowed well beyond their means and put nothing away for a rainey day.

I think by an large face called it about right.
Sep 13, 2012 6:55 AM CST R.I.R.A. Funeral
Phoenix
PhoenixPhoenixBelfast....., Antrim Ireland274 Threads 65 Polls 6,948 Posts
MADDOG69: Ah I dunno Phoenix. Time's a passing. Nobody wants them anymore. There is Zero reasons to be armed Republican nowadays. This country has crossed the Rubicon already.


While the majority of people in the o6c dont want a return to any kind of armed struggle. The truth is the GFA/peace process isn't working.

Republicans are today being locked up for yrs on charges for reasons NO ONE knows why, except the Sec. of State and the puppet masters in Whitehall.

The PSNI are simply the RUC under a different name. Simply look at the number of people from nationalist areas chagred with rioting over the past 5 ys and the number of people from unionist areas. Why is Winky Irivie from the PUP/UVF not in prison but Alan Lundy is?? I'm all for equality not Orwellan equality (everyone is born equal but...)

What people fail to grasp is this. Nationalist/Republicans may vote SF in elections. But a sizeable minority will always turn a blind eye or overtly help Irish Reublicans in waging an armed campagign against the British State and policing their neighbourhoods. Thats always been the case.
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