Savita (48)
Trealach01: It's not her right to decide the fate of the unborn.
SO you believe.....and thats why we have women heading off to our neighbour to excercise their right to live ,wihtout their mental or physical health being put into jeopardy.
Now if there was another referendum tomorrow, no doubt you will vote with your conscience, as will I. I am prepared to accept the outcome, the will of the people, are you?
mr1983: Ireland is bound by the European Court of Human Rights under international law. To become an effective part of our national law, international law must be expressed in legislation. It is what is called the dualist approach in Ireland.
The judgement also didn't ask for legislation. They don't make judgement on national laws. They make decisions on whether Ireland's position is at odds with the convention. The idea that their law has any precedence over Irish law is wrong.
The judgement also didn't ask for legislation. They don't make judgement on national laws. They make decisions on whether Ireland's position is at odds with the convention. The idea that their law has any precedence over Irish law is wrong.
So why isnt our gov jumping up and down and telling them to get lost then?
sharmini: So why isnt our gov jumping up and down and telling them to get lost then?
I think their lack of action in 2 years tells its own story.
mr1983: I think their lack of action in 2 years tells its own story.
well as weve heard in the various media over recent weeks, thats not good enough. After savitas death hit the headlines, we heard stories of women in similar siutaions as she was, where doctors did not delay. there needs to be at the very least ,clarification for medical personnel for these rare but life threatening situations. At the moment, it seems to be down to what part of the country the hospital is in.....and which doctor you get to treat you?
sharmini: well as weve heard in the various media over recent weeks, thats not good enough. After savitas death hit the headlines, we heard stories of women in similar siutaions as she was, where doctors did not delay. there needs to be at the very least ,clarification for medical personnel for these rare but life threatening situations. At the moment, it seems to be down to what part of the country the hospital is in.....and which doctor you get to treat you?
Who said it is not good enough? Our constitution is the highest form of fundamental rights in our country. It explicitly protects the rights of the unborn. Only we can change that. And unfortunately that won't change for a long time yet. No legislation can change that. No guidelines and no European Court of Human Rights judgement.
mr1983: Who said it is not good enough? Our constitution is the highest form of fundamental rights in our country. It explicitly protects the rights of the unborn. Only we can change that. And unfortunately that won't change for a long time yet. No legislation can change that. No guidelines and no European Court of Human Rights judgement.
You misunderstand me. I am not saying that the constitution is not good enough. I am saying that the interpretation of how that is put into practice, in cases such as this, thats whats not good enough.
sharmini: You misunderstand me. I am not saying that the constitution is not good enough. I am saying that the interpretation of how that is put into practice, in cases such as this, thats whats not good enough.
I suppose we can argue all night and day about our opinions on how we feel the government should act now.
But the thread really asks the question of how the story destroyed Irelands image. Kitty Holland should be sacked. The media have questions to answer. And a public inquiry into the actions of the pro=choice lobbies should be started.
Back on the European Court of Human Rights: I find it a bitof a joke that the only people who ever get to have a case heard in that court are either very rich or have the backing of these lobby groups who want to further their agendas.
mr1983: EU law will take precedent over Irish legislation. That was established before Lisbon. Some EU law takes direst effect, while other EU legislation requires government action. The supreme court ruled for this in the Meagher case. In the Crotty case, the supreme court ruled that any legislation or treaties that are repugnant to the constitution require referendums. I'm not aware of the points you make on the Lisbon treaty.
The European Court of Human Rights is not covered under these though. It is a body of the Council of Europe which our country has signed up to. However none of the decisions of this court can have precedent over Irish law. They make decisions based on areas where a State is not meeting obligations under the convention of human rights. The government must choose how to bring both sides into balance. It can stall, it will probably go back to the court, then it will probably go back to the council and they will act. They might suspend us or expel us or something else. It is a powerful court but cannot change Irish law.
The European Court of Human Rights is not covered under these though. It is a body of the Council of Europe which our country has signed up to. However none of the decisions of this court can have precedent over Irish law. They make decisions based on areas where a State is not meeting obligations under the convention of human rights. The government must choose how to bring both sides into balance. It can stall, it will probably go back to the court, then it will probably go back to the council and they will act. They might suspend us or expel us or something else. It is a powerful court but cannot change Irish law.
I hope you are right because somebody needs to have a concern for the rights of the unborn.
facetowardsfront: I hope you are right because somebody needs to have a concern for the rights of the unborn.
Hopefully the government will grow a pair of balls and tell them it is going to do nothing. We will probably get expelled but we are joined enough European institutions as it is.
Trealach01: I think you're misreading the judgments and treaty on both issues
That's quite possible Trealach. I would be more than glad to be wrong on this. Thanks for your analysis.
@Sharmini; yes dearie, I must be so disrespectful. I don't like scammers, especially ones that use dead women as their bait. What next? Kitty Hollands grandmother died in Nigeria and left her 40 million but she needs our bank details so she can forward it to us? Femmo please!
facetowardsfront: That's quite possible Trealach. I would be more than glad to be wrong on this. Thanks for your analysis.@Sharmini; yes dearie, I must be so disrespectful. I don't like scammers, especially ones that use dead women as their bait. What next? Kitty Hollands grandmother died in Nigeria and left her 40 million but she needs our bank details so she can forward it to us? Femmo please!
Then direct your allegations at the journalist and dont use Savita's name!
fifitheminx: they dont know her..do u care about people u dont know..
Yes, dearie, it is possible to care for people you don't know personally. It's called empathy.
MADDOG69: What I'd like to know is who was the doctor. I know he wasn't Irish anyway. Probably Indian or Pakistani aswell.
But wasn't Mr Whatappalaver claiming he was discriminated against by Cahtolics? So it was a third party whom he alleges told him 'this is a Catholic country'? Wouldn't it be funny if it was an Indian doctor afterall and the source of her infection was an Indian restaurant in Galway? Ah wait, I'd better stop this wild speculation or The Irish Times will want me to work for them
facetowardsfront: But wasn't Mr Whatappalaver claiming he was discriminated against by Cahtolics? So it was a third party whom he alleges told him 'this is a Catholic country'? Wouldn't it be funny if it was an Indian doctor afterall and the source of her infection was an Indian restaurant in Galway? Ah wait, I'd better stop this wild speculation or The Irish Times will want me to work for them
I'm not a betting man, but based on the numbers, I'm willing to bet it was an Indian or Pakistani doctor. The last time I read about Indian doctors, about half of them fail the Irish Medical exam here when coming over to take up positions on foot of passing that exam. Also I've had occasion to be in the RICS a few times. They publish various exam results on the notice boards to the left as you walk in the main entrance. One after another all the fails were listed... all Middle Eastern and Far Eastern names.
facetowardsfront: Yes, dearie, it is possible to care for people you don't know personally. It's called empathy.
yes empathy...tada!
but sociopaths like u dont have any,like other words, love compassion..u learn their meaning...but never experience them.
saddle up cowboy...
fifitheminx: yes empathy...tada!
but sociopaths like u dont have any....
but sociopaths like u dont have any....
But you're the one who didn't think it possible to have empathy for someone you don't know personally. That's what you said in your comment to MADDOG above. Who's the Sociopath again?
facetowardsfront: But you're the one who didn't think it possible to have empathy for someone you don't know personally. That's what you said in your comment to MADDOG above. Who's the Sociopath again?
no i asked him...
i have plenty of empathy..us mushy females who cry while watching war, children dying in the streets after bombing...big disasters our friends misfortunes....
and a story woman who might have been saved in a hospital in our country if our laws could be straightened out.
haha fifi ya mentaler. 
fifitheminx: they dont know her..do u care about people u dont know..
but who they do care about is people they do know..their sister..best friend..daughter..and dont want this to happen again.
but who they do care about is people they do know..their sister..best friend..daughter..and dont want this to happen again.
didn't you start that thread "How could we let this happen" ..you don't know them either
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It's not her right to decide the fate of the unborn.