Religion and the level of Corruption in Society or Politics (18)
In response to: I was speaking to an English friend the other night (He's nominally Church of England married to an Irish Catholic) and we got onto the discussion of Religion and Corruption in Society and Public Life.
His view was that in mainly Catholic societies there was a greater tolerance and greater incidence of corruption than in mainly Protestant societies, he stated that in England, Germany, Holland or Scandinavia someone like Silvio Berlusconi wouldn't get elected to public office.
He mentioned the Irish banking sector and the fact that there has been no sucessful prosecutions whereas in America crooked bankers have gobe to prison.
Would you agree or disagree that there is less public tolerance for Corruption in mainly Protestant Countries and lower levels of corruption than in mainly Ctaholic societies?
His view was that in mainly Catholic societies there was a greater tolerance and greater incidence of corruption than in mainly Protestant societies, he stated that in England, Germany, Holland or Scandinavia someone like Silvio Berlusconi wouldn't get elected to public office.
He mentioned the Irish banking sector and the fact that there has been no sucessful prosecutions whereas in America crooked bankers have gobe to prison.
Would you agree or disagree that there is less public tolerance for Corruption in mainly Protestant Countries and lower levels of corruption than in mainly Ctaholic societies?
Seems to be the case yes.
ya could also add brussels
My friend was astonished that a crook like Michael Lowry is routinely reelected even though he has been facing serious corruption allegations for the last 17 years, I mentioned the expenses scandals in the UK amongst some British politicians and his response was "well at least some of them went to jail".
As of today i give up in the goverment. Seen a clip of michael noonan telling a reporter tp zip up his pockets. Also had to try and console a friend of mine over the fact that her disability will be cut of within a week if she dosnt supply revelant information and she has done so already.
Typical hit the vulerable
Typical hit the vulerable
The only good catholic countries are the ones in warmer climates.Even though repression and guilt still linger in back of women's minds,its just too damn hot to keep all their clothes on.
Are you saying there is a link between one's faith, and corruption, or the Catholic church/empire, and corruption?
I agree with the latter, this is not really news to anybody, in this country anyway.
I agree with the latter, this is not really news to anybody, in this country anyway.
kennyfromdublin: I was speaking to an English friend the other night (He's nominally Church of England married to an Irish Catholic) and we got onto the discussion of Religion and Corruption in Society and Public Life.
His view was that in mainly Catholic societies there was a greater tolerance and greater incidence of corruption than in mainly Protestant societies, he stated that in England, Germany, Holland or Scandinavia someone like Silvio Berlusconi wouldn't get elected to public office.
He mentioned the Irish banking sector and the fact that there has been no sucessful prosecutions whereas in America crooked bankers have gobe to prison.
Would you agree or disagree that there is less public tolerance for Corruption in mainly Protestant Countries and lower levels of corruption than in mainly Ctaholic societies?
His view was that in mainly Catholic societies there was a greater tolerance and greater incidence of corruption than in mainly Protestant societies, he stated that in England, Germany, Holland or Scandinavia someone like Silvio Berlusconi wouldn't get elected to public office.
He mentioned the Irish banking sector and the fact that there has been no sucessful prosecutions whereas in America crooked bankers have gobe to prison.
Would you agree or disagree that there is less public tolerance for Corruption in mainly Protestant Countries and lower levels of corruption than in mainly Ctaholic societies?
the more religious the more gullibility, education or what taught would play a large part too.
sirLarryIII: The only good catholic countries are the ones in warmer climates.Even though repression and guilt still linger in back of women's minds,its just too damn hot to keep all their clothes on.
Now Larry.. you sound a bit Orange.sirLarryIII: The only good catholic countries are the ones in warmer climates.Even though repression and guilt still linger in back of women's minds,its just too damn hot to keep all their clothes on.
Yeah, what's that one General Pinochet was from...
I don't think any religion has a manopoly on corruption. Look at the old Soviet Union. They had no religion and it was the most corrupt place on earth.... ever.
I think here is Ireland from the moment you could talk people were taught to obey the authority of the Church first and State second, if you did not conform and subjugate yourself to the will of these institutions you very soon found out just how powerful they were, and just how much control they had.
A word from a member of the catholic clergy against you was, and still is in some places, powerful and damaging, both to you, and anyone around you. They ruled using fear of ostracising you and those you loved.
Society has now reached a point where, while we may not be afraid of them any more, we still accept and tolerate their excessive, corrupt, and even criminal behaviour.
My hope for the future is that no one will accept or tolerate the abuses of power some of these so called leaders of society have got away with to date, that they will be afraid of us, which is the way it should be.
A word from a member of the catholic clergy against you was, and still is in some places, powerful and damaging, both to you, and anyone around you. They ruled using fear of ostracising you and those you loved.
Society has now reached a point where, while we may not be afraid of them any more, we still accept and tolerate their excessive, corrupt, and even criminal behaviour.
My hope for the future is that no one will accept or tolerate the abuses of power some of these so called leaders of society have got away with to date, that they will be afraid of us, which is the way it should be.
MADDOG69: Now Larry.. you sound a bit Orange.
And i can look it too with the amount of fake tan i use sometimes.That aside shall we be graced with your presence at the next lodge meeting,Brother Maddog? And not referring to the orange order
kennyfromdublin:
Do you think people in Australia, Canada, the United States (mainly Protestant states excluding Massachusetts), Britain, Scandinavian countries etc would continuously reelect suspected or actual crooks like Jacques Chirac, Silvio Berlusconi, Michael Lowry, Ted Kennedy, Bertie Ahern etc. Nope they would be forced to resign or if they stood for reelection they would be booted out.
Do you think people in Australia, Canada, the United States (mainly Protestant states excluding Massachusetts), Britain, Scandinavian countries etc would continuously reelect suspected or actual crooks like Jacques Chirac, Silvio Berlusconi, Michael Lowry, Ted Kennedy, Bertie Ahern etc. Nope they would be forced to resign or if they stood for reelection they would be booted out.
Kenny. You're wrong about Canada.
As for the US last I checked about half or more of the US states have Catholic Governors.I've punched too many holes in your argument and there is far too many exceptions for it to have ANY correlation.
kennyfromdublin:
Do you think people in Australia, Canada, the United States (mainly Protestant states excluding Massachusetts), Britain, Scandinavian countries etc would continuously reelect suspected or actual crooks like Jacques Chirac, Silvio Berlusconi, Michael Lowry, Ted Kennedy, Bertie Ahern etc.[ Nope they would be forced to resign or if they stood for reelection they would be booted out.
Do you think people
I think you'll find the people (most off) who you mentioned got re-elected even though everyone knew they were more bent than a ten bob note.....
People will vote for who ever they think will put money in to their pockets unfortunatly..
kennyfromdublin: Here's the Transparency Internation report in 2012 as regards Corruption.
4 of the scandinavian countries are in the top 10, New Zealand is in joint 1st position, Australia is in joint 7th position, the Netherlands is in joint 9th position.
Okay the Netherlands and Switzerland do contain substantial Catholic minorities but It's probably the case that they took on the cultural mores as regards a historically Calvinist dislike for corruption and paying the consequences before seeking forgiveness.
The 1st predominantly Catholic country on the list is Luxembourg in 12th position and Belgium in 16th position on the rankings.
France is in 22nd position and corruption is endemic in French politics and the very few French politicians convicted of corruption have never served a lenghty prison sentence, Jacques Chirac been a prime example while Nicholas Sarkozy has corruption allegations facing him as well.
Ireland is in joint 25th position on the rankings with Austria, as we know in Ireland our politicians nearly have to be pushed over a cliff before they resign when faced with wrongdoing.
Spain 30th, Portugal 33rd, Poland 41st, Italy a disgraceful 72nd position in the rankings. Chile and Uruguay both do alright been in joint 20th position. Brazil 69th and Argentina 102nd.
Proves me right.
4 of the scandinavian countries are in the top 10, New Zealand is in joint 1st position, Australia is in joint 7th position, the Netherlands is in joint 9th position.
Okay the Netherlands and Switzerland do contain substantial Catholic minorities but It's probably the case that they took on the cultural mores as regards a historically Calvinist dislike for corruption and paying the consequences before seeking forgiveness.
The 1st predominantly Catholic country on the list is Luxembourg in 12th position and Belgium in 16th position on the rankings.
France is in 22nd position and corruption is endemic in French politics and the very few French politicians convicted of corruption have never served a lenghty prison sentence, Jacques Chirac been a prime example while Nicholas Sarkozy has corruption allegations facing him as well.
Ireland is in joint 25th position on the rankings with Austria, as we know in Ireland our politicians nearly have to be pushed over a cliff before they resign when faced with wrongdoing.
Spain 30th, Portugal 33rd, Poland 41st, Italy a disgraceful 72nd position in the rankings. Chile and Uruguay both do alright been in joint 20th position. Brazil 69th and Argentina 102nd.
Proves me right.
A Calvinist dislike? Did they take that into account when shuffling away all that Jew money during the war?
You haven't answered ANY of my previous assertions. All my points still stand. (And I have a feeling they will too)
MADDOG69: Kenny. You're wrong about Canada. As for the US last I checked about half or more of the US states have Catholic Governors.I've punched too many holes in your argument and there is far too many exceptions for it to have ANY correlation.
Of course there will always be exceptions, I noticed you ignored my views on Italy, Portugal, Spain, I see Croatia is fairly low down the list as well.
In Spain their Prime minister Rajoy has been facing corruption allegations and he's still digging in as regards resignation.
Canada is mixed religiously but again It's culturally Protestant.
You didn't answer my question about the suspected or actual crooks that I mentioned in my previous post.
kennyfromdublin: Of course there will always be exceptions, I noticed you ignored my views on Italy, Portugal, Spain, I see Croatia is fairly low down the list as well.
In Spain their Prime minister Rajoy has been facing corruption allegations and he's still digging in as regards resignation.
Canada is mixed religiously but again It's culturally Protestant.
You didn't answer my question about the suspected or actual crooks that I mentioned in my previous post.
In Spain their Prime minister Rajoy has been facing corruption allegations and he's still digging in as regards resignation.
Canada is mixed religiously but again It's culturally Protestant.
You didn't answer my question about the suspected or actual crooks that I mentioned in my previous post.
No... Canada is culturally Canadian. I think this point is what hammers it home. Always exceptions? The exceptions I've listed have destroyed any correlation whatsoever. I think you'll find a closer correlation if you look at political history rather than Denominational history. I would say your argument about Switzerland actual does the opposite of what it intends: The Swiss being more than ready to fill their vaults with the money from any sort of Criminal, Mafia, Dictator, Tax Dodger etc etc.
What about the crooks? Sure you're talking about individuals. Where does individual cases start giving us information about trends?
I gave you the link to a map there. That's more useful.
What about this for corruption
No one uncorrupt African leader.
No one uncorrupt African leader.
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His view was that in mainly Catholic societies there was a greater tolerance and greater incidence of corruption than in mainly Protestant societies, he stated that in England, Germany, Holland or Scandinavia someone like Silvio Berlusconi wouldn't get elected to public office.
He mentioned the Irish banking sector and the fact that there has been no sucessful prosecutions whereas in America crooked bankers have gobe to prison.
Would you agree or disagree that there is less public tolerance for Corruption in mainly Protestant Countries and lower levels of corruption than in mainly Ctaholic societies?