Ethanol ( Archived) (37)

Aug 5, 2021 3:25 PM CST Ethanol
EtherealDude
EtherealDudeEtherealDudeLondon, Greater London, England UK14 Threads 96 Posts
uh oh
As usual (with governments who create something to 'fix' a problem) and in this case....
"OMG, we must get our mandatory renewable fuel targets sorted"....
but usually the fix ends up causing MORE problems than before.
Take Ethanol

It's already in fuel (petrol+diesel) and is now due to be being INCREASED from 5% (E5) to 10% (E10) (UK)
They must think it's wonderfully woke doing this, because it produces a cleaner burning fuel to reduce those nasty CO2 emissions
Wonderful...
devil
Not quite, because you see Ethanol actually is NOT a pleasant substance (acidic, corrosive, is a solvent and it's hygroscopic so absorbs water from the atmosphere) and now causing problems in certain vehicles and also machinery.

uh oh Ethanol has a definite but unpredictable destructive effect on many types of rubber, especially fuel hoses from an earlier age.
uh oh Ethanol can affect some plastics, elastomers and composite materials, as used in floats, diaphragms, needle valves, seals and so on.
uh oh Ethanol can also corrode alloys involving aluminum and zinc.

So trying to save the planet is basically shortly going to create a lot of broken-down vehicles and equipment with either destroyed fuel systems, or worse..... a major explosion (and possibly death) ...not so much if, but certainly when fuel pipes break.

That's already happening as I recently found loads of garden equipment for sale online 'spares or repair' and actually bought some VERY cheap mowers and strimmers.
Fix and mend right, recycle....don't landfill!
ALL had destroyed fuel systems, either the internal systems were damaged or the fuel pipes were literally falling apart.

So ok, a simple fix... buy some new fuel pipe (possibly on ebay) and they all then work again?
Err, not quite so easy as most fuel pipe offered for sale states:
'Not suitable for use with fuel with a high Ethanol content'
Great.

Forget fridge mountains then, get ready for hills of busted garden machinery!

Noticed the stink this so called green and modern fuel creates??
I used to petrol wash machine parts, but not anymore as even outside the stench the fuel makes now is just awful.
Also, one can't reuse handy old ice cream tubs etc, for parts washing pots, because...they now melt!!
doh
Holy crap, what have they done to modern fuel!!!!
How's all that going to be 'good' for the planet, let alone people.
Thoughts and comments on your Ethanol experiences please!
handshake

Oh and one last thing, how is ethanol made....
Sugarcane and foodgrains such as maize, rice, and surplus stock of other grains are used.
Where people have a general lack of food to eat (especially grains etc), now fuel companies are after it to create....biofuels.

And so the people who actually want to eat rice, sugarcane and maize etc???
Expendable!
(....of relatively little significance, and therefore able to be abandoned or destroyed)

Typical.

....and lastly:
Just bought or invested in a wonderful vintage classic vehicle?
Best keep it well away from....
Ethanol!
heart beating
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Aug 5, 2021 3:41 PM CST Ethanol
deedee123xo
deedee123xodeedee123xoLimerick, Ireland15 Threads 3,538 Posts
EtherealDude: As usual (with governments who create something to 'fix' a problem) and in this case....
"OMG, we must get our mandatory renewable fuel targets sorted"....
but usually the fix ends up causing MORE problems than before.
Take Ethanol

It's already in fuel (petrol+diesel) and is now due to be being INCREASED from 5% (E5) to 10% (E10) (UK)
They must think it's wonderfully woke doing this, because it produces a cleaner burning fuel to reduce those nasty CO2 emissions
Wonderful...

Not quite, because you see Ethanol actually is NOT a pleasant substance (acidic, corrosive, is a solvent and it's hygroscopic so absorbs water from the atmosphere) and now causing problems in certain vehicles and also machinery.

Ethanol has a definite but unpredictable destructive effect on many types of rubber, especially fuel hoses from an earlier age.
Ethanol can affect some plastics, elastomers and composite materials, as used in floats, diaphragms, needle valves, seals and so on.
Ethanol can also corrode alloys involving aluminum and zinc.

So trying to save the planet is basically shortly going to create a lot of broken-down vehicles and equipment with either destroyed fuel systems, or worse..... a major explosion (and possibly death) ...not so much if, but certainly when fuel pipes break.

That's already happening as I recently found loads of garden equipment for sale online 'spares or repair' and actually bought some VERY cheap mowers and strimmers.
Fix and mend right, recycle....don't landfill!
ALL had destroyed fuel systems, either the internal systems were damaged or the fuel pipes were literally falling apart.

So ok, a simple fix... buy some new fuel pipe (possibly on ebay) and they all then work again?
Err, not quite so easy as most fuel pipe offered for sale states:
'Not suitable for use with fuel with a high Ethanol content'
Great.

Forget fridge mountains then, get ready for hills of busted garden machinery!

Noticed the stink this so called green and modern fuel creates??
I used to petrol wash machine parts, but not anymore as even outside the stench the fuel makes now is just awful.
Also, one can't reuse handy old ice cream tubs etc, for parts washing pots, because...they now melt!!

Holy crap, what have they done to modern fuel!!!!
How's all that going to be 'good' for the planet, let alone people.
Thoughts and comments on your Ethanol experiences please!


Oh and one last thing, how is ethanol made....
Sugarcane and foodgrains such as maize, rice, and surplus stock of other grains are used.
Where people have a general lack of food to eat (especially grains etc), now fuel companies are after it to create....biofuels.

And so the people who actually want to eat rice, sugarcane and maize etc???
Expendable!
(....of relatively little significance, and therefore able to be abandoned or destroyed)

Typical.

....and lastly:
Just bought or invested in a wonderful vintage classic vehicle?
Best keep it well away from....
Ethanol!
Starting to see why you needed that blow up girlfriend

drinking
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Aug 5, 2021 3:46 PM CST Ethanol
... You are lucky if you were at 5%, in Colorado it's been 10% (or less) for years, I think they adjust it for the season. My riding mower mechanic told me about a station not far from me, he said get the ethanol free gas for all my small engines, he told me I would love the results... laugh
I have a 6 gallon gas can I'm using for the non ethanol gas, he said it would last longer as well... So, waiting to see what happens...
Ethanol comes from corn plants doesn't it? ... laugh ... wave

Not all stations have this, I have one fairly close to me...

Embedded image from another site
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Aug 5, 2021 3:47 PM CST Ethanol
deedee123xo: Starting to see why you needed that blow up girlfriend
moping ... laugh
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Aug 5, 2021 3:48 PM CST Ethanol
Its insane to grow Food then turn it into Fuel!rolling on the floor laughing doh
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Aug 5, 2021 3:58 PM CST Ethanol
EtherealDude
EtherealDudeEtherealDudeLondon, Greater London, England UK14 Threads 96 Posts
deedee123xo: Starting to see why you needed that blow up girlfriend
ooooooh uh oh
Unlike yourself, she's actually NOT full of air, but a very lifelike TPE film prop which cost a fortune and now sits happily beside my media system.
I don't have a problem with that, except for the benefit of this thread (and to get back on topic)... I'd better keep her well away from Ethanol
..and possibly other corrosive things too
laugh
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Aug 5, 2021 3:59 PM CST Ethanol
EtherealDude
EtherealDudeEtherealDudeLondon, Greater London, England UK14 Threads 96 Posts
Conrad73: Its insane to grow Food then turn it into Fuel!
thumbs up
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Aug 5, 2021 4:06 PM CST Ethanol
deedee123xo
deedee123xodeedee123xoLimerick, Ireland15 Threads 3,538 Posts
EtherealDude: ooooooh
Unlike yourself, she's actually NOT full of air, but a very lifelike TPE film prop which cost a fortune and now sits happily beside my media system.
I don't have a problem with that, except for the benefit of this thread (and to get back on topic)... I'd better keep her well away from Ethanol
..and possibly other corrosive things too
Give her some Ethanol dude, I think she needs it drinking
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Aug 5, 2021 4:07 PM CST Ethanol
EtherealDude
EtherealDudeEtherealDudeLondon, Greater London, England UK14 Threads 96 Posts
Inthewoods: ... You are lucky if you were at 5%, in Colorado it's been 10% (or less) for years, I think they adjust it for the season. My riding mower mechanic told me about a station not far from me, he said get the ethanol free gas for all my small engines, he told me I would love the results...
I have a 6 gallon gas can I'm using for the non ethanol gas, he said it would last longer as well... So, waiting to see what happens...
Ethanol comes from corn plants doesn't it? ... ...

Not all stations have this, I have one fairly close to me...
Thanks for that valued comment applause
I wonder now if there's a conspiracy theory to get all gas engines broken quicker, thus moving more folks over to electric?
(Maybe that's one for Alex Jones!)

Your local mechanic though certainly is a star.
Not many about these days, for sure
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Aug 5, 2021 4:26 PM CST Ethanol
EtherealDude
EtherealDudeEtherealDudeLondon, Greater London, England UK14 Threads 96 Posts
deedee123xo: Give her some Ethanol dude, I think she needs it
drink pouring
She's happy with scotch
Embedded image from another site

Embedded image from another site
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Aug 5, 2021 4:33 PM CST Ethanol
deedee123xo
deedee123xodeedee123xoLimerick, Ireland15 Threads 3,538 Posts
EtherealDude: She's happy with scotch
laugh
Bit of a lush then.
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Aug 5, 2021 5:09 PM CST Ethanol
EtherealDude
EtherealDudeEtherealDudeLondon, Greater London, England UK14 Threads 96 Posts
deedee123xo: Ya, ya....same here
hug
So you are looking for something, and not just here for the forums!

If I ever revisit Ireland again
cheers I'll buy you a drink
...or two
...or three
thumbs up
They (usually) have great singsongs in Irish pubs, but if you suddenly can't hear the violin playing anymore, that's usually the time to stop drinking!
giggle
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Aug 5, 2021 5:13 PM CST Ethanol
deedee123xo
deedee123xodeedee123xoLimerick, Ireland15 Threads 3,538 Posts
EtherealDude: So you are looking for something, and not just here for the forums!

If I ever revisit Ireland again
I'll buy you a drink
...or two
...or three

They (usually) have great singsongs in Irish pubs, but if you suddenly can't hear the violin playing anymore, that's usually the time to stop drinking!
We are known for our singsongs alright.
Funny that it's usually when the guards burst in and take all of our names for drinking in a lock in is where I know I've drank too much

cheers
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Aug 5, 2021 5:40 PM CST Ethanol
Miss_Cellaneous
Miss_CellaneousMiss_CellaneousWyre, Lancashire, England UK1 Threads 2,444 Posts
Inthewoods: ... You are lucky if you were at 5%, in Colorado it's been 10% (or less) for years, I think they adjust it for the season. My riding mower mechanic told me about a station not far from me, he said get the ethanol free gas for all my small engines, he told me I would love the results...
I have a 6 gallon gas can I'm using for the non ethanol gas, he said it would last longer as well... So, waiting to see what happens...
Ethanol comes from corn plants doesn't it? ... ...

Not all stations have this, I have one fairly close to me...
I've not got round to getting my photo driving license yet here in the Uk. Still got my old paper license from 1979laugh What astounds me is the price of petrol/gas. When I'm over in America, it's like $1.50 per gallon as apposed to £1.40 per litre in the Uk . No wonder that most people in America have lovely big comfy vehicles. I'm getting more Americanised day by day grin I just have to drop the "S" for a "Z" grin

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Aug 5, 2021 5:47 PM CST Ethanol
EtherealDude
EtherealDudeEtherealDudeLondon, Greater London, England UK14 Threads 96 Posts
deedee123xo: We are known for our singsongs alright.
Funny that it's usually when the guards burst in and take all of our names for drinking in a lock in is where I know I've drank too much
Looks like you had more of a wild time, than I ever did!
dancing
Never have got guard busted ......but they usually don't look under the tables!
rolling on the floor laughing
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Aug 5, 2021 7:17 PM CST Ethanol
EtherealDude
EtherealDudeEtherealDudeLondon, Greater London, England UK14 Threads 96 Posts
Back on topic...
Fuel filter blockage!

During the life of a vehicle deposits such as gums (fuel degradation products), rust and scale will tend to build up in the fuel system.
Often the gums act as binders for the inorganic deposits.
If the vehicle is switched from E0 to E5 or E10, the increased solvent properties of the ethanol blend will loosen the binding gums and destabilise the fuel system deposits which will be transported to the fuel filter causing accelerated blockage.

Sometimes this can result in loss of power and eventually complete vehicle failure.

In some cases where the E10 fuel is not compatible with material present in the fuel system, the material can be attacked and the resulting debris can result in filter blockage or worse.

It has been suggested that filter blockages can be simply dealt with, by just changing the blocked filter.
The possible scenario is very much more serious than that.

For instance, a sudden loss of power on a motorway is possible, followed by an unpowered cruise across lanes of traffic and a fuel filter change on the hard shoulder (if any exist!) represents a very serious risk to the safety of the vehicle occupants and other road users in the immediate vicinity.

A recent study evaluated the effects of E5 followed by E10 blends on a selection of vehicles, some of which are common to the UK market
Both the blends tended to increase deposit on fuel filters.
One vehicle, out of 15, failed to start due to a blocked filter!

If filter blockage is going to be a significant issue it would be expected that reports would be noted.
Anyone had a non-start situation, or a sudden blockage?

In addition:
The vast majority of modern vehicles use electronic fuel injection with some form of compensating ‘closed loop’ or feedback control in some areas of engine operation.
The feedback is via an oxygen sensor in the exhaust that directly measures oxygen content in the exhaust gases.
The engine management system employs this signal to calculate the mean air/fuel ratio of the mixture entering the engine cylinders.
If the actual air/fuel ratio differs from the desired air /fuel ratio then the fuel delivery is adjusted to bring it back to within the desired range. Usually this leaning effect is compensated for by increasing the flow of the fuel.

Ethanol contains approximately 35 % oxygen by weight and so will lean the air/fuel mixture.
A lean mixture results in hotter combustion, a greater tendency to cause engine spark knock and hotter exhaust gas temperatures, so a higher combustion temperature increases NOx formations.

It would appear then, the so called REDUCTION of emissions won't happen in practice, because the onboard engine management systems adjust the engine accordingly (wrongly) due to the Ethanol addition.

So, unless the software for the EMS is updated... the vehicle will now pollute even more!
Anyone had an update recently?
It is unlikely also that carburettored vehicles and those fitted with mechanical or early electronic fuel injection will be able to make sufficient adjustment to the mixture strength while running on E10.

Most garden power equipment still operates using carbs.

Can't easily start your mower or strimmer?
Even if you can, the amount of gunky exhaust coming out is likely to be FAR worse now with added Ethanol.
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Aug 5, 2021 9:54 PM CST Ethanol
Ethanol in gas is easilly removed and you can find that on youtube. Water absorbs Ethanol Water is heavier than gas.conversing
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Aug 5, 2021 10:22 PM CST Ethanol
MrBoDangles
MrBoDanglesMrBoDanglesAuckland, New Zealand270 Posts
BTW EtherealDude/EthanolDude

Bliss and gallons of piss

drinking handshake

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Aug 5, 2021 10:30 PM CST Ethanol
MrBoDangles
MrBoDanglesMrBoDanglesAuckland, New Zealand270 Posts
mikey4691: You are a Weis man, Budweiser..
Ahhhhh, Budweiser...........music to my ears.

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Aug 5, 2021 10:33 PM CST Ethanol
mikey4691
mikey4691mikey4691Knoxville, Tennessee USA8 Threads 6,868 Posts
MrBoDangles: Ahhhhh, Budweiser...........music to my ears.
dancing
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