Have you ever experienced a Manifestation? (155)
Circlip: But do you have any reason to believe that consciousness doesn't reside within the brain?
It may well, but yes, I have reason to believe consciousness extends beyond the physical self. Circlip: Can we agree that the information we gather from our senses (eyes, ears, etc.) is held within the brain?
Errm, not exactly.
I'm not sure that information from the senses is held within the brain like water in a jug. It causes changes within the brain which is not the same as being held by the brain.
Also, 'information we gather from our senses' isn't as simple as it sounds. The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat by the neurolgist Oliver Sacks challenges that oversimplification from clinical case studies. There's a youtube audio reading by the authoor in case you're interested.
Circlip: If so, isn't it logical to suppose that consciousness, which is aware of this information, is also in the brain? I mean, it seems like the ideal location for it.
We can become aware that someone is looking at us even if they are behind us. I think there's a Native American saying about not looking at someone, or something you're hiding from as the eyes draw attention to the self. If someone hiding in the bushes is aiming a blunderbuss at the back of your head, I imagine consciousness is ideally located beyond the brain.Circlip: As far as so called out of body experiences are concerned, I don't think consciousness travels any farther than the imagination.
What is the imagination? A form of consciousness, perhaps?
Circlip: What would a spirit/soul/ consciousness experience if it could leave the physical body? It is immaterial; without substance. To see and hear etc. requires physical apparatus, ie. eyes and ears.
I see my tinnitus. All that physical stuff is not as simple and linear as the simplest models. Synethesia has been supported with MRI based research, but even if my imagination, or consciousness has some control over my brain function, I'm the only person I know with a cacophany of noise louder than a factory floor, but doesn't find it disturbing. Perhaps there is a function to thinking outside the (brain) box.
Circlip: What if everything that ever was, is, and ever will be, just exists constantly? Maybe as some kind of actuality, or maybe in some form of potential, I don't know, but it's just always there. Nothing ever goes out of existence, and nothing new comes into it. The knowledge of it would probably modify all our existing concepts about death. I'm not promoting that theory, but I have heard harder to believe ones. I think whatever ultimate reality is, assuming bodleing is right that there is such a thing, it would be fantastically mind blowing if we only had the capability to perceive it, but it seems clear that we don't. I doubt it would turn out to be anything that has been thought of yet.
That's all I have the energy to respond to just now, I'll tackle the rest tomorrow.
Energy cannot be created, nor destroyed, but it can change form.That's all I have the energy to respond to just now, I'll tackle the rest tomorrow.
Mine's about to change form, too.
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jac_the_gripper: It may well, but yes, I have reason to believe consciousness extends beyond the physical self.
.
I don't have reason to believe it, so It makes more sense for me not to. Although I suppose that a thing without any physical substance can't really be said to be anywhere, at least in terms of space. The magnetic field analogy is the closest I can come to envisaging it. The field isn't a physical object, but is dependent on a physical object for its existence..
jac_the_gripper:
Errm, not exactly.
I'm not sure that information from the senses is held within the brain like water in a jug. It causes changes within the brain which is not the same as being held by the brain.
Also, 'information we gather from our senses' isn't as simple as it sounds. The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat by the neurolgist Oliver Sacks challenges that oversimplification from clinical case studies. There's a youtube audio reading by the authoor in case you're interested.
It doesn't really matter by what means the brain holds the information. The point is that data from the sense organs are sent to the brain which processes it and retains it. If it is to be accessed, only the brain can provide the access. Errm, not exactly.
I'm not sure that information from the senses is held within the brain like water in a jug. It causes changes within the brain which is not the same as being held by the brain.
Also, 'information we gather from our senses' isn't as simple as it sounds. The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat by the neurolgist Oliver Sacks challenges that oversimplification from clinical case studies. There's a youtube audio reading by the authoor in case you're interested.
jac_the_gripper:
We can become aware that someone is looking at us even if they are behind us.
Can we? I don't know about that, but it wouldn't be difficult to set up an experiment to test the theory.We can become aware that someone is looking at us even if they are behind us.
jac_the_gripper:
What is the imagination?
A form of consciousness, perhaps?
I see my tinnitus. All that physical stuff is not as simple and linear as the simplest models.
Synethesia has been supported with MRI based research, but even if my imagination, or consciousness has some control over my brain function, I'm the only person I know with a cacophany of noise louder than a factory floor, but doesn't find it disturbing. Perhaps there is a function to thinking outside the (brain) box.
I think imagination is a brain function. My limited knowledge and understanding of synaesthesia leads me to think it is to do with the way the brain processes information, and how some people have a sort of glitch in the system. Whatever it is, it happens in the brain.What is the imagination?
A form of consciousness, perhaps?
I see my tinnitus. All that physical stuff is not as simple and linear as the simplest models.
Synethesia has been supported with MRI based research, but even if my imagination, or consciousness has some control over my brain function, I'm the only person I know with a cacophany of noise louder than a factory floor, but doesn't find it disturbing. Perhaps there is a function to thinking outside the (brain) box.
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jac_the_gripper:
I was back with a bit of a whoomph, the excrutiating pain of surgery with spinal anaesthetic resistance and a terrified young nurse launching herself at me with the paddles. I'd told the anaesthetist in pre-op I could still feel, but no one believed me and they wheeled me into theatre anyway.
It's a long time ago, but I remember looking at myself as if I was standing at the head of the operating table before my heart beats got slushy.
After those last heartbeats (that I was aware of) I remember a very peaceful and chilled alternative consciousness separate from my body, but I don't know how long that conscious awareness would have lasted had I not gone back to my body.
When I did go back I had a certain distrust of the operating team's competence, so I took over my own care with my consciousness. I was still half dissociated, so I stuck my 'ghost' hand into my chest, grabbed my heart and started pumping it manually. I also consciously drained fluid out of my lungs back into my blood stream and stopped the bleeding at the incision site.
The anaesthetist yelled at the nurse with the paddles to stop and jumped up to push her back. I watched him looking at his screens, looking at me and saying, "Oh...?" on repeat, like he couldn't work out how I'd spontaneously recovered from the brink. I felt like doing at him.
It's the first I've heard of any of this, and I'm very alarmed by it. How are you now?I was back with a bit of a whoomph, the excrutiating pain of surgery with spinal anaesthetic resistance and a terrified young nurse launching herself at me with the paddles. I'd told the anaesthetist in pre-op I could still feel, but no one believed me and they wheeled me into theatre anyway.
It's a long time ago, but I remember looking at myself as if I was standing at the head of the operating table before my heart beats got slushy.
After those last heartbeats (that I was aware of) I remember a very peaceful and chilled alternative consciousness separate from my body, but I don't know how long that conscious awareness would have lasted had I not gone back to my body.
When I did go back I had a certain distrust of the operating team's competence, so I took over my own care with my consciousness. I was still half dissociated, so I stuck my 'ghost' hand into my chest, grabbed my heart and started pumping it manually. I also consciously drained fluid out of my lungs back into my blood stream and stopped the bleeding at the incision site.
The anaesthetist yelled at the nurse with the paddles to stop and jumped up to push her back. I watched him looking at his screens, looking at me and saying, "Oh...?" on repeat, like he couldn't work out how I'd spontaneously recovered from the brink. I felt like doing at him.
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Circlip: If so, was it followed by an emanation of some kind? This includes, but is not confined to, spiritual but not religious experiences. Answers will be treated in the strictest confidence.
In my opinion womanifestation is a much more serious condition
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tomcatty: In my opinion womanifestation is a much more serious condition
Well nobody can say you haven't done your bit to drive a good many of them away, can they?Although I preferred it when they were here, and you weren't.
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Circlip: Well nobody can say you haven't done your bit to drive a good many of them away, can they?
Although I preferred it when they were here, and you weren't.
Well that's too bad bycyclclip. You could always jump shipAlthough I preferred it when they were here, and you weren't.
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tomcatty: Well that's too bad bycyclclip. You could always jump ship
No, it's my duty to stay and try to repair some of the damage you've done. 
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Circlip: No, it's my duty to stay and try to repair some of the damage you've done.
Silly Moo------ This thread is Archived ------
Circlip: No, it's my duty to stay and try to repair some of the damage you've done.
Dear Circlip,Could you try a bit harder please.
Yours sincerely,
Tiger Moth.
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Tiger_Moth: Dear Circlip,
Could you try a bit harder please.
Yours sincerely,
Tiger Moth.
Don't worry, I'll get there, I have the will of the people behind me.Could you try a bit harder please.
Yours sincerely,
Tiger Moth.
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Tiger_Moth: Dear Circlip,
Could you try a bit harder please.
Yours sincerely,
Tiger Moth.
And you are boring the pants off people, droopyCould you try a bit harder please.
Yours sincerely,
Tiger Moth.
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Circlip: Don't worry, I'll get there, I have the will of the people behind me.
Oh do hurry up .He's at it again with his mealy mouth comments.------ This thread is Archived ------
Tiger_Moth: Oh do hurry up .He's at it again with his mealy mouth comments.
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Circlip: Don't worry, I'll get there, I have the will of the people behind me.
I really think this has his name all over it 
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Tiger_Moth: I really think this has his name all over it
Why am I riding you??------ This thread is Archived ------
tomcatty: And you are boring the pants off people, droopy
Well I find her vibrant and exciting, and very sophisticated. I can only assume that you are accustomed to associating with ladies of the lower levels of society. Perhaps the company that would be more to your taste would be better sought under a bridge, or in a shop doorway, rather than here. Just a thought, old chap. 
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Tiger_Moth: He's at it again with his mealy mouth comments.
Yes, his mouth is rather mealy, isn't it. And God only knows what is behind those dark glasses. 
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Circlip: Yes, his mouth is rather mealy, isn't it. And God only knows what is behind those dark glasses.
Bags probably
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Circlip: Well I find her vibrant and exciting, and very sophisticated. I can only assume that you are accustomed to associating with ladies of the lower levels of society. Perhaps the company that would be more to your taste would be better sought under a bridge, or in a shop doorway, rather than here. Just a thought, old chap.
Thank you kind sir and I can cook too. Have a slice of banana and walnut cake just out of the ovenNo not copied and pasted and you won't find it on tineyey either
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I think I held that concept to be true for quite a lot of my life because I was told it was true. I was also told the wafer and wine was the body and blood of christ once the magic catholic spell had been done, but it was much easier to accept and assimilate that my consciousness was contained in my brain. I'm not sure I should have accepted either teaching withut question, however..
As far as so called out of body experiences are concerned, I don't think consciousness travels any farther than the imagination. What would a spirit/soul/ consciousness experience if it could leave the physical body? It is immaterial; without substance. To see and hear etc. requires physical apparatus, ie. eyes and ears.
Until we die, we won't know and if consciousness can't exist without the brain, we'll be unaware.
It'll be quite a revelation if it turns out we have some kind of consciousness after death, eh?
That's all I have the energy to respond to just now, I'll tackle the rest tomorrow.