Have you ever experienced a Manifestation? (155)
bodleing2: Haha, there's a saying...."Don't come out of the spiritual closet, people will hate you for it."
And it's so true....
And it's so true....
This is the ego knowing, yes literally knowing how powerful the spirit is. Most egos are like that, wanting to conquer, to be right, to control, to hate, to ignore and to suppress the spirit. It means ego death if spirit is real ... Love is not the purview of ego.
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Selenite: If thoughts are not demonstrable what do you make of thought transmition? I have had those with my dogs on several occasions and on a few occasions with humans.
As I recall, I said that they aren't demonstrable in a provable way, just as spirit is difficult to demonstrate but a lot of us accept it as truth.A lot of my comments with Circlip were indeed that your experience with others and other conscious beings (dogs etc.) are indeed true. They are just difficult to prove except to the person that has these events in their lives.
What you say happened is, for me, very true and it's a truth that goes much deeper than simple transmissions or connections with others on a thought level or conscious awareness level.
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I seem to be vastly outnumbered by spiritually inclined people, and on my own thread, too. 
I am in fear of being taken prisoner; I surrender.
I am in fear of being taken prisoner; I surrender.
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Circlip: I seem to be vastly outnumbered by spiritually inclined people, and on my own thread, too.
I am in fear of being taken prisoner; I surrender.
You're experiencing a manifestation. I am in fear of being taken prisoner; I surrender.
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Circlip: Not in my case. I'm just averse to seeing beliefs represented as truth. I'm fine with most things that start with, "this is what I believe", but not too thrilled about, "this is how it is". We all have our quirks, don't we?
There is a complete difference between a belief and a truth. There's also a complete difference between conventional truth and ultimate truth.Conventional truth is how we see the world, we use it all the time to navigate our way through life. As long as our senses are in order, we know that fire burns, birds fly and pigs don't. Conventional truth is agreed on and isn't denied but confirmed by valid cognition.
Ultimate truth will assert that nothing exists independently from it's own side, there is no one 'thing' that sits alone, that is not dependent on another thing. This includes the 'Self,' and certainly includes consciousness. Nothing can exist from it's own side only.
These are truths that are beyond words and as BB says, for most of us can only become aware of through meditation, not through learning, but through 'unlearning.'
The real truth is the truth of 'emptiness.' Once emptiness is realised the need to find the truth no longer exists....
"Whatever is dependently co-arisen
That is explained to be emptiness.
That being a dependent designation,
Is itself the middle way.
Something that is not dependently arisen,
Such a thing does not exist.
Therefore a non-empty thing
Does not exist.”
Nagarjuna
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bodleing2:
The real truth is the truth of 'emptiness.' Once emptiness is realised the need to find the truth no longer exists....
The real truth is the truth of 'emptiness.' Once emptiness is realised the need to find the truth no longer exists....
Have you any experience with 'A Course In Miracles' Gra?
The website-
There is an online book.
Emptiness is explained differently in this book or perhaps your use of the idea is out of context for me.
Just a couple of excerpts-
"The emptiness engendered by fear must be replaced by forgiveness."
"There is no emptiness in you."
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bodleing2: There is a complete difference between a belief and a truth. There's also a complete difference between conventional truth and ultimate truth.
I can now see the reason why we will probably never agree. I infer, from what you say, that you believe there is such a thing as ultimate truth, whereas I don't take it for granted that there is. If we added up all the people who thought they knew the truth, I dread to think how many differing versions of it there would be. Your version is one among many, although to you, of course, it's the only one that matters. When I think about existence, and I think about it quite deeply sometimes, the best I ever manage to achieve is thinking I might have caught a glimpse of something, but I haven't caught enough of them to put anything like a picture together. I honestly don't know what is really there outside of my own head, and I don't expect I ever will. I can't help but speculate about it, but I don't have a problem admitting that I just don't know. No one else knows either, I'm as sure of that as I can be. 
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Your spiritual awakening scares the sleepers
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The following are 10 signs of spiritual awakening.
Observing Your Patterns. One of the first signs of awakening is noticing. ...
Feeling a Sense of Connection. ...
Letting Go of Attachment. ...
Finding Inner Peace. ...
Increasing Your Intuition. ...
Having Synchronicity. ...
Increasing Your Compassion. ...
Removing Fear of Death.
Observing Your Patterns. One of the first signs of awakening is noticing. ...
Feeling a Sense of Connection. ...
Letting Go of Attachment. ...
Finding Inner Peace. ...
Increasing Your Intuition. ...
Having Synchronicity. ...
Increasing Your Compassion. ...
Removing Fear of Death.
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bodleing2: Haha, there's a saying...."Don't come out of the spiritual closet, people will hate you for it."
And it's so true....
So, I’m wondering why this is…humanity seems willing to talk about just about anything and everything else BUT…why such adamant repulsion to discussing spirituality? Is it SO personal that many people feel intruded upon? Yet when one visits some churches, especially fundamentalist types: (hollering minister, insisting that individual congregants “ share” their “ sinful” tales of debauchery, sobbing, crying people herded like cattle to an “alter-call”, etc…) so, in those instances it seems people want to…I for one subscribe to the belief that it is private, not to be “shared”.And it's so true....
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BB_snickers: Have you any experience with 'A Course In Miracles' Gra?
The website-
There is an online book.
Emptiness is explained differently in this book or perhaps your use of the idea is out of context for me.
Just a couple of excerpts-
"The emptiness engendered by fear must be replaced by forgiveness."
"There is no emptiness in you."
Thanks for those links Al, I'll have a look at them.The website-
There is an online book.
Emptiness is explained differently in this book or perhaps your use of the idea is out of context for me.
Just a couple of excerpts-
"The emptiness engendered by fear must be replaced by forgiveness."
"There is no emptiness in you."
Just a little quote on emptiness may show why it's futile to try to explain something that has no explanation, it's the Umanisfested...beyond words....
"To recognize emptiness as conventional is to thoroughly refute inherent existence and to underscore the recognition that emptiness is the emptiness of conventional phenomena, nothing more substantive than that. This insight undermines a contradictory and dualistic reality where emptiness is totally real, while the conventional is totally unreal. Nagarjuna’s doctrine negates ultimate truth as an independent base from which to assert an objective, non-empty view. All views can only be conventionally true.
~“Therefore it is said that whoever makes a philosophical view out of emptiness is indeed lost.” Nagarjuna
https://emptinessteachings.com/2014/09/11/the-two-truths-of-buddhism-and-the-emptiness-of-emptiness/
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Circlip: I can now see the reason why we will probably never agree. I infer, from what you say, that you believe there is such a thing as ultimate truth, whereas I don't take it for granted that there is. If we added up all the people who thought they knew the truth, I dread to think how many differing versions of it there would be. Your version is one among many, although to you, of course, it's the only one that matters. When I think about existence, and I think about it quite deeply sometimes, the best I ever manage to achieve is thinking I might have caught a glimpse of something, but I haven't caught enough of them to put anything like a picture together. I honestly don't know what is really there outside of my own head, and I don't expect I ever will. I can't help but speculate about it, but I don't have a problem admitting that I just don't know. No one else knows either, I'm as sure of that as I can be.
"All views can only be conventionally true."
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rohaan: So, I’m wondering why this is…humanity seems willing to talk about just about anything and everything else BUT…why such adamant repulsion to discussing spirituality? Is it SO personal that many people feel intruded upon? Yet when one visits some churches, especially fundamentalist types: (hollering minister, insisting that individual congregants “ share” their “ sinful” tales of debauchery, sobbing, crying people herded like cattle to an “alter-call”, etc…) so, in those instances it seems people want to…I for one subscribe to the belief that it is private, not to be “shared”.
Sorry for butting in Ro but I've noticed why this occurs. One reason that a lot of people openly resist spirituality is because a lot of the religions claiming spiritual affinity are indeed not truly spiritual at all. Those religions are founded on fear. Fear of reprisal by others or by their god. Fear of reprisal by it's leaders and more. This makes a lot of us afraid to share the real truth with others which is actually love, not hate or anger, or retribution etc. We have been taught since the Romans that god is angry and full of retribution. He is not of course.
Spirituality has been given a bad rap by the very institutions that claim to be spiritual leaders. In fact the 'makers' of those religions are/were ego driven power brokers meant to keep you from knowing what you are in reality. Infinite creative, loving spirit.
Real spirituality is founded on and practiced in and with love so that sharing allows for compassion, rather than the punishment that most religions impose and scare us with.
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bodleing2: Thanks for those links Al, I'll have a look at them.
Just a little quote on emptiness may show why it's futile to try to explain something that has no explanation, it's the Umanisfested...beyond words....
"To recognize emptiness as conventional is to thoroughly refute inherent existence and to underscore the recognition that emptiness is the emptiness of conventional phenomena, nothing more substantive than that. This insight undermines a contradictory and dualistic reality where emptiness is totally real, while the conventional is totally unreal. Nagarjuna’s doctrine negates ultimate truth as an independent base from which to assert an objective, non-empty view. All views can only be conventionally true.
~“Therefore it is said that whoever makes a philosophical view out of emptiness is indeed lost.” Nagarjuna
Well done. Understood now. Just a little quote on emptiness may show why it's futile to try to explain something that has no explanation, it's the Umanisfested...beyond words....
"To recognize emptiness as conventional is to thoroughly refute inherent existence and to underscore the recognition that emptiness is the emptiness of conventional phenomena, nothing more substantive than that. This insight undermines a contradictory and dualistic reality where emptiness is totally real, while the conventional is totally unreal. Nagarjuna’s doctrine negates ultimate truth as an independent base from which to assert an objective, non-empty view. All views can only be conventionally true.
~“Therefore it is said that whoever makes a philosophical view out of emptiness is indeed lost.” Nagarjuna
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pedro27: Your spiritual awakening scares the sleepers
What is unknown or unusual is sometimes fearful.
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Will somebody give me a shout when you lot have finished being spiritual all over the place? 
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Circlip: Will somebody give me a shout when you lot have finished being spiritual all over the place?
How about if I'm just spiritual in the corner?
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bodleing2: How about if I'm just spiritual in the corner?
I think you're a great bloke, bod, despite being spiritual. ------ This thread is Archived ------
Circlip: But you can't demonstrate any of that, let alone give an explanation of the possible principles behind it that make it so. Yet, despite that, you state it all as if it is fact.
Can you demonstrate that consciousness emanates from the brain?"The mind uses the brain, and the brain responds to the mind. The mind also changes the brain. People choose their actions—their brains do not force them to do anything. Yes, there would be no conscious experience without the brain, but experience cannot be reduced to the brain's actions."
Surely, the idea that consciousness emanates from the brain is also a belief. It's just one of the ways we try to make sense of the things we don't really understand.
Circlip: I seem to be vastly outnumbered by spiritually inclined people, and on my own thread, too.
I am in fear of being taken prisoner; I surrender.
Spirituality is like consciousness: we have trouble grasping it, defining it, or filling a jug with it. We may try - perhaps by conceptualising it as contained in the heart, or brain.I am in fear of being taken prisoner; I surrender.
Conceptualising that something we can't grasp in our hand is not an object, is not necessarily spiritual. A thought, or an idea isn't the same as organised religion, either.
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Cheers bro