Just another question ( Archived) (33)

Feb 15, 2007 2:33 PM CST Just another question
dietzman
dietzmandietzmanAnywhere, Rhineland-Palatinate Germany11 Threads 211 Posts
If you all were trying to understand an idea about some of the pain and suffering going on with certain people of all races, especially childred and you you heard that it's the greed and stupidity of americans that they were shouting out about, what would you believe...that we as americans are simply full of greed and stupid?

Just seeking an answer
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 15, 2007 2:37 PM CST Just another question
shyone57
shyone57shyone57Kilkenny, Ireland14 Threads 2,037 Posts
No, it's not the "americans" that do it, it's a government forced to act on the behalf of greedy people.
Don't take me wrong, I'm not a political person and usually avoid everytthing to do with it.
But I'm not sitting here to see the people headbashed for something that's not their faultwine
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 15, 2007 2:48 PM CST Just another question
TabooN
TabooNTabooNClaremont, USA47 Threads 12,843 Posts
I believe there are many deliberately stupid people, yes.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 5:02 AM CST Just another question
Jerry53531
Jerry53531Jerry53531Sliema, Malta12 Threads 410 Posts
I would probably look at just how much money and other aid the US gives to other countries. I don't believe the amount would indicate we're greedy. One could argue about who gets aid and who doesn't but that doesn't equal stupid. How we monitor and administer programs along with the flat out stealing that goes on is probably a different story i.e. stupid and wasteful.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 5:16 AM CST Just another question
fireliter
fireliterfireliterAllen Park, Michigan USA502 Threads 14 Polls 5,902 Posts
I find it hard for inteligent people to believe that there is no good in America i find it distressing that only the actions of a few corporations and individauls are beig broght to the lime light of teh media.... tehn again have not the same techniques been used on the Muslim faith. paeace brotherhood charity kindness compassion of one countrys people to anotehr just does not sell papers or advertising slots... whichis sad


why is it easy to start a fire of hatred then it is to start oa fire of compassion and kindness withn the hearts of mankind throughout the world????

if w can answer this the solution to the problems may not be far off.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 5:17 AM CST Just another question
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
I'm just wondering Jerry said " how much money and other aid the US gives to other countries"

Those money are not given ... i believe, USA loans money with a singed agreeement that money will be return with a percent in a future. Is it so?
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 6:06 AM CST Just another question
TabooN
TabooNTabooNClaremont, USA47 Threads 12,843 Posts
Hell,

most of our country doesn't even take care of it's own!

greed, stupidity...? take your pick.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 6:31 AM CST Just another question
Jerry53531
Jerry53531Jerry53531Sliema, Malta12 Threads 410 Posts
I'll see if I can come up with a figure. You're right, some money goes as grants while some goes out in the form of loans.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 6:34 AM CST Just another question
fireliter
fireliterfireliterAllen Park, Michigan USA502 Threads 14 Polls 5,902 Posts
unfortunately USA is so deep in debt and the countire that hold the note on our debt is surprising....
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 6:35 AM CST Just another question
candis
candiscandisMadison Township, Michigan USA7 Threads 1,041 Posts
I think it's a # of factors including their own government.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 6:43 AM CST Just another question
Jerry53531
Jerry53531Jerry53531Sliema, Malta12 Threads 410 Posts
Right you are, People seem drawn towards the dark or hateful side of things. I guess it makes people feel better about themselves when they see others or can cast others in a negative light.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 6:48 AM CST Just another question
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
Thanks Fire for an information grin handshake
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 7:14 AM CST Just another question
Jerry53531
Jerry53531Jerry53531Sliema, Malta12 Threads 410 Posts
27,457 Million dollars in 2005 (Does not include loans or private donations (NGOs)). Sorry it was a quick search and I don't have a lot of time to find states for 2006. Probably one of the reasons people think we are greedy is because although we give in dollars more than any other country, the percentage of GNP given is the lowest of the industrialized nations.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 7:16 AM CST Just another question
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
Hmm ... I'll check it out. For a curiosity's sake :^)
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 7:35 AM CST Just another question
longingformyluv
longingformyluvlongingformyluvPittsburgh, USA39 Threads 3,355 Posts
thumbs up
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 7:58 AM CST Just another question
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
Jerry ... just to compare two different countries and what's going on with a financial help to poor countries.

Since i'm originally Russian here is some information about Russian input:

Russia recently pledged US$7 million to FTI (the Fast Track Initiative)—the first ever Russian financial contribution to global education efforts—and is considering further financing, (says Bermingham).

Russia, as a G8 member, plans to continue implementing the global tasks that were put forward in 2005 in Britain, including debt cancellation for the poorest countries, Putin said. Moscow will undertake additional financial obligations in this area, he said.
Russia is ready to pay over us$500 million in extra funds to the International Development Association.

The matter concerns Russia's preparedness to make another ahead-of- schedule payment to the Paris Club of creditors in the amount of up to US $11.9 billion," Putin said, inviting the G8 ministers to express their opinions on this account.

The Russian leader pointed out that "some of the creditor countries experience a shortage of free financial resources now."



It would be interesting to know How other countries helping to the third World countries and what are those contribution.


grin cheers
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 8:09 AM CST Just another question
oceans5555
oceans5555oceans5555Chevy Chase, USA4 Threads 803 Posts
Hi, Jerry and Marina,

There are many different forms of finacial and technical aide programs sponsored by the US.

Some of these are in the form of low-interest loans (e.g. via the IMF, World Bank, etc.) and some is in the form of donations.

The low-interest loans typically are for large infrastructural projects, like dams, energy, telecommunications, ports and airports, etc. Recently, the US and other wealthy countries have forgiven some of these loans when it became evident that the recipients could not ever repay the loans.

I am going to focus on the donations side of aide, as that is usually used as the measure of a country's 'generosity.'

After World War II, the US emerged as the wealthiest of all countries, and with little internal physical damage. The US launched a intensive effort to help those countries that were devastated byt he war to rebuild.

The US Marshall Fund was a massive effort to help rebuild, and IIRC most European countries were recipients in one form or another. (Finland voluntarily turned down the offer of US assistance). The Marshall Fund was immensely successful, and is viewed by those in the socio-economic development community as national altruism at its best. The Fund served as a model for all subsequent US aide programs, though none, IMO, achieved the same brilliance of results.

Gradually, US aide became politiciized during the Cold War. For example, the US aide program for Greece and Turkey was designed with an eye to keeping the USSR out of the area, and later, the US and USSR got in a race for influence in Egypt, won initially by the USSR with the Aswan Dam project.

In part to counter the view that US aide had become politicized and self-seeking, the US created the Peace Corps, in which qualified volunteers -- teahcers, agricultural experts, sewer and water experts, etc. -- rather than money is the aide.

The US government organization that administers the US aide program is the US Agency for International Development. They are a group of highly skilled technocrats and have done marvellous work around the world.

In the '70s, US aide took an unfortunate turn away from its pure humanitarian and developmental focus, and parts of the USAID budget were diverted to non-assistance goals. The first large bite took monet was directed it at the "War on Drugs," a massively ineffective program that continues to this day, and that has fuinded a lot of the corruption and civil fighting that we see in Latin America.

(continued below)
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 8:10 AM CST Just another question
oceans5555
oceans5555oceans5555Chevy Chase, USA4 Threads 803 Posts
Another big bite out of the USAID development budget came when the US began to assist Russia after the fall of the USSR. Outright budget support was viewed as essential to keep the Russian economy from descending into poverty, which the US feared might bring the old communists back to power, and might tempt Russian scientists (and especially nuclear ones) to build stuff and sell it to the highest bidders.

The third and largest bite taken out of the US aide budget has been Iraq and the "War of Terror", another immensely ineffective (some would correctly say, counter-productive) project.

The growing politicization of the US aide program is symbolized by the growing subordination of USAID to the US State Department. Today, aide is viewed, I regret to say, as an extension of US foreign policy, rather than an altruistic effort to help those less fortunate than ourselves.

Not only have these 'bites' taken away the bulk of the US aide budget, leaving only crumbs for the countries in which we do genuine humantitarian and development work, but they didn't stop with bites out of the USAID budget: every US government program other than those directly involved with the US invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and the "War on Terror" has had its budget also cut, inculding the education, social assistance, agriculture, and energy development programs.

In this nutshell review of US aide programs, I must mention a relatively new program: the mutli-billion dollar Millenium Challenge. An initiative of the Bush program and neocons, Millenium Challenge represents another diversion of US aide, this time in the service of the neocon's view of 'democracy'. Countries are given aide IF they meet the necon definition of democracy, which includes support for US foreign policy goals. For example, some countries, like the Republic of Georgia, succumbed to the inducements, and what should otherwise be a pretty good Georgian president has become an 'enthusiastic' supporter of the neocon vision and recipient of Millenium Challenge money.

The US gives a lot of money to its aide program, in absolute terms, but several other countries give significantly larger amounts as a percentage of their GDPs. What defines altruism best? The absolute amounts, or the GDP percentages?

I do believe that the American people are generally fair, when they know the facts of a foreign situation. I also believe that they generally don't study -- study -- what is going on in the world, and so are too often unable to make the informed judgments that are required, and so end up going along with a lot of nonsensical assertions about foreign situations. Of course, these are broad generalizations. I also believe that the American people, if they adopted for themselves capable national leaders, could once again assume a place in the world second to none in credibility and admiration second. The instincts, altruism, energy, knowledge, imagination and skill that went into the Marshall Fund still lives in the American people.

What is the proof of this? It is in front of our noses. That we here, in CS, a singles dating site, can be having these many and often passionate discussions, and be seriously examining the weaknesses and strengths of our country is, in my opinion proof positive. It is a painful self-examination; yet we do it.

In this self-examination, the goading of our foriegn friends here on CS is, in my opinion, an important and welcome help. I thank you for your willingness to participate in this, emotional as it may sometimes become. But most essentially, I thank my fellow Americans heer on CS who participate, thread after thread, because it is out of these discussions, replicated a million-fold throughout the country, that we will find our way.

conversing hug handshake conversing cheers conversing hug
Oceans

PS. I've written a lot here (my apologies) because I'm travelling for the next several days and will miss you all.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 8:23 AM CST Just another question
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
Oceans said ( by the way a kiss goes your way)


"I also believe that the American people, if they adopted for themselves capable national leaders, could once again assume a place in the world second to none in credibility and admiration second. The instincts, altruism, energy, knowledge, imagination and skill that went into the Marshall Fund still lives in the American people"

Yes, absolutely ... and I shall wait and see for a Phoenix to arise!

and thanks for information Oceans

Have a safe travel !!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for a short post lol but have to go ... life is callingcheers
------ This thread is Archived ------
Feb 16, 2007 8:24 AM CST Just another question
Jerry53531
Jerry53531Jerry53531Sliema, Malta12 Threads 410 Posts
You're right.. You're very long winded.. rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing

Just kidding, good information...
------ This thread is Archived ------
Post Comment - Post a comment on this Forum Thread

This Thread is Archived

This Thread is archived, so you will no longer be able to post to it. Threads get archived automatically when they are older than 3 months.

« Go back to All Threads
Message #318

Stats for this Thread

1,390 Views
32 Comments
by dietzman (11 Threads)
Created: Feb 2007
Last Viewed: Apr 13
Last Commented: Feb 2007

Share this Thread

We use cookies to ensure that you have the best experience possible on our website. Read Our Privacy Policy Here