The Trail of Tears..... ( Archived) (130)

Feb 16, 2008 4:13 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Hugz_n_Kissez: Whose blaming anyone...I think I was just recounting one period in history...I'm sure there were Natives just as cruel....BUT I'm also sure they didn't oppress an entire race in the name of greed!!!!!!!


I dont think any of them made or signed treaties either in order to trick anybody out of anything - could be wrong of course but i dont think so.........
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Feb 16, 2008 4:15 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
PILIPALA
PILIPALAPILIPALACardiff, South Glamorgan, Wales UK200 Threads 4,804 Posts
There has been no blame thrown around in this thread only historyscold
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Feb 16, 2008 8:25 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
cherokeemoon2
cherokeemoon2cherokeemoon2grove, Oklahoma USA15 Threads 545 Posts
Hugz_n_Kissez: By 1835 the Cherokee were divided and despondent. Most supported Principal Chief John Ross, who fought the encroachment of whites starting with the 1832 land lottery. However, a minority(less than 500 out of 17,000 Cherokee in North Georgia) followed Major Ridge, his son John, and Elias Boudinot, who advocated removal. The Treaty of New Echota, signed by Ridge and members of the Treaty Party in 1835, gave Jackson the legal document he needed to remove the First Americans. Ratification of the treaty by the United States Senate sealed the fate of the Cherokee. Among the few who spoke out against the ratification were Daniel Webster and Henry Clay, but it passed by a single vote.

In 1838 the United States began the removal to Oklahoma, fulfilling a promise the government made to Georgia in 1802. Ordered to move on the Cherokee, General John Wool resigned his command in protest, delaying the action. His replacement, General Winfield Scott, arrived at New Echota on May 17, 1838 with 7000 men. Early that summer General Scott and the United States Army began the invasion of the Cherokee Nation.

In one of the saddest episodes of our brief history, men, women, and children were taken from their land, herded into makeshift forts with minimal facilities and food, then forced to march a thousand miles(Some made part of the trip by boat in equally horrible conditions). Under the generally indifferent army commanders, human losses for the first groups of Cherokee removed were extremely high. John Ross made an urgent appeal to Scott, requesting that the general let his people lead the tribe west. General Scott agreed. Ross organized the Cherokee into smaller groups and let them move separately through the wilderness so they could forage for food. Although the parties under Ross left in early fall and arrived in Oklahoma during the brutal winter of 1838-39, he significantly reduced the loss of life among his people. About 4000 Cherokee died as a result of the removal. The route they traversed and the journey itself became known as "The Trail of Tears" or, as a direct translation from Cherokee, "The Trail Where They Cried" ("Nunna daul Tsuny").

Ironically, just as the Creeks killed Chief McIntosh for signing the Treaty of Indian Springs, the Cherokee killed Major Ridge, his son and Elias Boudinot for signing the Treaty of New Echota. Chief John Ross, who valiantly resisted the forced removal of the Cherokee, lost his wife Quatie in the march. And so a country formed fifty years earlier on the premise "...that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among these the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.." brutally closed the curtain on a culture that had done no wrong. The Legend of the Cherokee Rose.

No better symbol exists of the pain and suffering of the Trail Where They Cried than the Cherokee Rose(pictured at top of page). The mothers of the Cherokee grieved so much that the chiefs prayed for a sign to lift the mother's spirits and give them strength to care for their children. From that day forward, a beautiful new flower, a rose, grew wherever a mother's tear fell to the ground. The rose is white, for the mother's tears. It has a gold center, for the gold taken from the Cherokee lands, and seven leaves on each stem that represent the seven Cherokee clans that made the journey. To this day, the Cherokee Rose prospers along the route of the "Trail of Tears". The Cherokee Rose is now the official flower of the State of Georgia.
tk u hugz,Ross is in my lineage.Chief Richard Fields,who was my ggg-grandfather took his band to Texas and fought hard for the Cherokees rights,both with the mexicans and Sam Houstan, but to no avail.What a travisity of justice. teddybear
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Feb 16, 2008 8:38 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
cherokeemoon2: tk u hugz,Ross is in my lineage.Chief Richard Fields,who was my ggg-grandfather took his band to Texas and fought hard for the Cherokees rights,both with the mexicans and Sam Houstan, but to no avail.What a travisity of justice.


YW darlin....WOW...you should be proud to have those brave and just men in your lineage...Yes I know lots of traveties in that period of history and beyond too....hug teddybear hug
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Feb 16, 2008 8:45 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
cherokeemoon2
cherokeemoon2cherokeemoon2grove, Oklahoma USA15 Threads 545 Posts
TTom50: From the first day the white men and women set ashore here in North America....there were men of both races (white and red) that tried to
find way to keep things like the trail of tears from occurring. Davie Crockette is one example. Davie Crockette also led an armed militia into Iroquis terrority to recover hostaged settlers from his Kentucky settlement.

Be fair here. Try to get history right. There were Indian bands and tribes that were just as cruel, violent and hostile as those troopers that guarded the Cherokees during the Trail of Tears. Does that mean
all Indians were that way? No. As I have already said there men and women on both sides of this that had the welfare of both sides at heart and mind. But there some groups, no white man wanted to run into.

My grandfather was a stage coach guard driver for a time. During the
late 1880s in California, home of a Indian tribe that went to war at the time. Riding stage was a dangerous occupation then and there if you
get my drift here.

I don't make heros of men like the troopers of the Calvary that took
the Cherokees to their reservation. Nor do I make heros of Indians that find near helpless settlers and kidnap and torture them as well.

It is easy to sit here today and look back at one side or the other....and point fingers and make accusations of the events then.
The simple fact that both side were extreme scared of the other
and had great hate for the other. That was enough to bring horrible events to both to occur. What if Custer would have been able to ride into the camp of 10000 Indians, placed his hand in the air and said let us talk and find a peaceful resolution to this and not spill blood.

Would the Indians honored a truce for talks? I don't think so. The Plain Indains had gathered for a war. They had sent parties out seeking the settlers and gold miners coming into the area. Had already in the year attacked several. They wanted a fight just as bad as the Calvary did. Custer was a fool.....but even fools should not die the way he and his men did that day.
I am sorry ,but I think u need the history lesson.Do u know how many women,children,and elderly Custer killed and ordered killed?Neither do I.Too many to count, no one will ever know.His motto was the only good indian is a dead indian.Enough said? I hope so.Truce talks were a joke and a ruse many times to slaughter those dumb indians who actually believed it was within their reach to make a truce.The Native American finally learned that nearly every time they were told something,it was a lie.They were starved because there was a 1.00 to be made .I am as much white as I am native american,but still know injustice when I see or hear it. Guess its the indian in me, maybe? Most of Custers men did not want to go into battle that day,and no some didnt deserve a death like that.But most only got what they had dished out.A lot committed suicide that day,rather than fall in to the hands of the indians. very mad
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Feb 16, 2008 9:02 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Red Cloud was the fearless Sioux leader. He sent a small raiding party to attack the wood cutters from the fort, who were working with only minimal military protection. Two companies of infantry and one of cavalry went out to the rescue. They were quickly surrounded and then massacred. After that the Sioux had undisputed dominion over their territory for ten years. The US government's forts were burned and abandoned. The allies of the Sioux joined with them, and a powerful nation of nearly 60,000 people ruled the country from the Big Horn River to the Union Pacific Railway. The Sioux would not go south of the Union Pacific Railroad.

Taking Cheyennes and Arrapahoes, who they had intermarried with, the Sioux went back to the North Platte and the territory beyond. From there they routinely raided in all directions. Attempts were made by the Government to bribe them, but with no lasting success. The U.S. established Indian Agencies and reservations at convenient points. Here the old men, the sick, and the women and children made their homes. Here the young warriors, laughing at the White Man, filled up their bags with ammunition and supplies. They then went on the war path, attacking any white settlers they could find. They would return to the reservation when they needed more supplies.

Two large reservations were created southeast of the Black Hills in the White River Valley. Red Cloud, the hero of the attack at Phil Kearny, made his home here. Many of his chiefs also gathered here: some "good", like Old-Man-Afraid-of-his-Horses and his worthy son, but most of them crafty and combative, like Red Dog, Little-Big-Man, and American Horse. Further downstream, some twenty miles away, were the headquarters of the Brules. Their chief, Old Spot, was loyal to the U.S., but he had no control over the actions of the young warriors. Other reservations there were along the Missouri, and the Interior Department wanted to gather all of the Sioux Nation into these reservations, in order to help keep them out of trouble, or so it was thought.

Proud Sioux Culture Demanded Something More Than Reservation Life
The Sioux tradition, however, called for deeds of bravery in battle in order to win distinction. The vacillating policy of the US government allowed the Sioux warriors to make raids against white settlers, and to then return to the sanctuary of the reservation.



Chief Sitting Bull The warrior had won his spurs according to Sioux tradition, and was therefore a "brave".

But there were those Great Chiefs who never came in and never made peace. One of those who refused, and whose stand was a rallying point for the disaffected of every tribe, was a shrewd "medicine chief", the now celebrated Sitting Bull.

Sitting Bull and his followers were living happily and peaceably in the Valley of the Little Big Horn. Though the winters were cold and hard, they enjoyed life, as they hunted abundant game. But because of the US government's new policy, all the renegades from other tribes flocked to this location.

The wild and angry Ogalalla, Brule, Blackfoot, and Sans Arc warriors all made a home here, and then set about to attack pioneers, settlers, surveyors and prospectors.

At this time, more white settlers were entering the Sioux lands in the Black Hills, most looking for gold. The Ogalallas and Brules killed the settlers, claiming them to be invaders.


(Cont'd)....wine
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Feb 16, 2008 9:03 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Sitting Bull's followers quickly grew. The Interior Department found it useless to delay any longer. The army received orders to either bring in Sitting Bull, or Snuff Him Out. Early in March of 1876 General George Crook was sent into Sioux country with a strong force of cavalry and infantry. Crook's forces struck a big Indian Village on the snowy shores of the Powder River. It was thirty degrees below zero; the troops were poorly led by the officer entrusted with the duty, and the Sioux had recently developed impressive new fighting tactics under a new and daring leader, "Choonka-Witko" -- known as Crazy Horse.

Crook's advance retreated, being defeated by the renegades from the Red Cloud and Spotted Tail tribes. Early in May three expeditions moved into the territory, where by this time over 6,000 braves had joined Sitting Bull. From the south came Gen. Crook, with nearly 2,500 soldiers. From the east marched General Terry, with almost as many infantry and cavalry as had Crook, and a few light pieces of artillery. From the west General Gibbon led a group of frontier soldiers, scouting, and definitely finding the Indians on the Rosebud before forming his rendezvous with Terry near the mouth of the Tongue. If Sitting Bull had been aware of the situation, Gibbon's small force could never have finished that movement.

The Approaching Clouds of War
Early in June Crook's company was on the northeast slope of the Big Horn, and General Sheridan, planning the entire operation, saw with fear that large numbers of Indians were daily leaving the reservations south of the Black Hills and going around General Crook to join Sitting Bull. The Fifth Regiment of Cavalry was sent from Kansas to Cheyenne, and marched rapidly to the Black Hills to cut off these reinforcements. The great mass of the Indians lay between Crook at the head waters of Tongue River and Terry and Gibbon near its mouth, completely stopping all communications between the commanders. They harassed Crook's outposts and supply trains, and by June Crook decided to engage them and see the strength of their force. On June 17th Crook skirmished with the Sioux on the bluffs of the Rosebud. He had several hundred Crow allies. The combat lasted much of the day; but long before it was half over Crook was on the defensive and was actually withdrawing his men. He had found a hornets' nest, and knew it was too much for his small command. Pulling out as best he could, he fell back to the Tongue, sent for the entire Fifth Cavalry and all available infantry, and rested until they could reach him. Crook had not managed to even get within site of Sitting Bull's Great Indian Village.

Meantime Terry and Gibbon sent their scouts up stream. Major Reno, with a strong battalion of the Seventh Cavalry, left camp to scout up the Wolf Mountains. Sitting Bull and his people decided it was time to move. Their camp stretched for six miles, and their thousands of horses had eaten all the grass. While they had been victorious, they decided it was time to move to the valley of the Little Big Horn. Marching up the Rosebud, Major Reno was confronted by the sight of an immense trail turning suddenly west and crossing the great divide over toward the west. Experienced Indian fighters in his command told him that thousands of Indians had crossed that way within the last few days. Reno wisely turned back, and reported what he had seen to Terry.

(Cont'd)....wine
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Feb 16, 2008 9:04 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Enter George Armstrong Custer...

At the head of Terry's cavalry was Brevet Major-General George Armstrong Custer, a daring, dashing, impetuous soldier, who had won high honors as a division commander during the Civil War, and who had developed a reputation as an Indian Fighter when he led his gallant regiment against the Kiowas and the Cheyennes on the Southern plains. Custer had entered the Sioux country two times in recent campaigns. While Custer no doubt had experience, there were those who were superiors and subordinates who feared that Custer lacked the judgment needed to face a man like Sitting Bull on the Battlefield.


General George A. Custer, Commanding the 7th Cavalry at Little Big Horn
Custer had experienced conflict with both his commanders in the Dakota Department, and within his regiment. It is clear, however, that everyone honored his bravery and daring.

Some have speculated that the flamboyant Custer was considering a bid for the presidency, and that he sought one more bold and dramatic victory to secure his future.

When General Terry decided to send his cavalry to "scout the trail" reported by Reno, Custer was given command of the expedition.

Terry concluded that the Sioux had moved their camp across the Little Big Horn Valley, and he planned to send Custer to hold them from the east, while he and Gibbon's troops pushed up the Yellowstone in boats. He would then march southward until he reached Sitting Bull's flank.

Terry's orders to Custer showed an unusual combination of anxiety and tolerance. He seems to have feared that Custer would be impetuous, but he resisted issuing an order that might wound the high spirited commander of the 7th Cavalry. Terry warned Custer to keep watch well out toward his left as he rode westward from the Rosebud, in order to prevent the Sioux from moving southeastward between the column and the Big Horn Mountains. He would not impede him with distinct orders as to what he must or must not do when he came in contact with the warriors, but he named the 26th of June as the day on which he and Gibbon would reach the valley of the Little Big Horn, and it was his hope and expectation that Custer would come up from the east about the same time, and between them they would be able to soundly whip the assembled Indians.

Custer let him down in an unexpected way. He got there a day ahead of time, and had ridden night and day to do it. Men and horses were exhausted when the Seventh Cavalry rode into sight of the Indian Village on the Little Big Horn that cloudless Sunday morning of the 25th. When Terry came up on the 26th, it was all over for Custer and his regiment.

Custer started on the trail with the 7th Cavalry, and nothing else. A battalion of the 2nd was with Gibbon's column; but, luckily for the Second, Custer wanted none of them. Two field guns were with Terry, but Custer wanted only his own people. He rode 60 miles in 24 hours. He pushed ahead with focus and without hesitation. He created an impression that he wanted to have one dramatic battle with the Indians, in which he and the Seventh would be the only participants, and hence the heroes. The idea that he could be defeated apparently never crossed his mind. Custer sought glory, but in the end, found only infamy.

(Cont'd)....wine
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Feb 16, 2008 9:06 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Crook had over 2,000 men only 30 miles to Custer's left. If Custer had been scouting as instructed, he would have run into Crook's outposts, and Crook could have reinforced him. Custer wanted nothing of the sort, and was savoring the chance to have all the Glory to himself. At daybreak his scouts had come across two or three warriors killed in the fight of the 17th, and they sent back word that the valley of the Little Horn was in sight ahead, and there were "signs" of the Indian Camp.

Pride Comes Before the Fall...

Custer then decided to divide his column. He kept 5 companies, commanded by close friends, with himself. He left Captain McDougal with some troops to guard the rear. He divided the remaining companies between Benteen and Reno. Benteen was sent two miles to the left, and Reno remained between Benteen and Custer. This formed three small columns of 7th cavalry, which moved quickly westward over the divide.

Custer's Buckskin Jacket Custer's troops went into battle with the pomp and parade of war that distinguished them around their camps. Bright guidons flew in the breeze; many of the officers and soldiers wore the casual uniform of the cavalry. George Custer, his brother Tom Custer, Cook and Keogh were all dressed alike in buckskin jackets and broad rimmed scouting hats, with long leather riding boots. Captain Yates seemed to prefer his undress uniform, as did most of the lieutenants in Custer's column.

The brothers Custer and Captain Keogh rode Kentucky Sorrels. The trumpeters were at the heads of columns, but the band of the Seventh Cavalry had been left behind. Custer's last charge was started in the absence of the Irish fighting tunes he loved so dearly.

Following Custer's trail, you will come in sight of the Little Big Horn, snaking northward to its intersection with the broader stream. Looking southward you will see the cliffs and canyons of the mountains. To your North, the prairie reaches the horizon. To your West you see a broad valley on the other side of the stream. The fatal Greasy Grass is not seen below the steep bluffs that contain it. The stream comes into sight far to the left front, and comes toward you bordered by cottonwood and willow trees. It is lost behind the bluffs. For nearly six miles of its winding course, it can not be seen from where Custer got his first view of the village. Hundreds of "lodges" that lined its western bank could not be seen. Custer eagerly scanned the distant tepees that lay far to the North, and shouted "Custer's luck! The biggest Indian Village on the Continent!" At this point he could not have seen even 1/3 of the village!

(Cont'd)....wine
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Feb 16, 2008 9:09 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
The Indians correctly sensed his hesitation, fear, and indecision. He lost the element of surprise, he lost his momentum, and he lost the confidence of his own troops. He emboldened his enemy; "The White Chief was scared"; and now was their opportunity. Warriors, men and boys, came tearing to the location. A few well-aimed shots knocked some men off of their horses. Reno quickly ordered a movement by the flank toward the bluffs across the stream to his right rear. He never thought to dismount a few cool guns to turn around and cover the enemy. He placed himself at the new head of column, and led the retreating movement. Out came the Indians, with shots and triumphant yells. The rear of the column began to overtake the head; Reno was walking while the rear was running. The Indians came dashing up on both flanks and the rear. At this point the poorly led and helpless troops had no choice. Military discipline and order were abandoned. In one mad rush they ran for the river, jumped in, splashed through, and climbed up the steep bluff on the eastern shore -- an inexcusable panic, due mainly to the incompetent conduct of a cowardly commander.



Battle Map of the Battle of Little Big Horn
In vain several of the best officers of the column (Donald McIntosh and Benny Hodgson) tried to rally and protect the rear of the column. The Indians were not in overpowering numbers at that point, and a bold stand could have saved the day. But with the Major on the run, the Lieutenants could do nothing, but die bravely, and in vain. Donald McIntosh was surrounded, knocked from his horse and butchered. Hodgson, shot off his horse, was rescued by a friend, who dove into the river with him, but close to the farther shore the Indians killed him, a bullet tore through his body, the gallant and brave man rolled dead into the muddy waters.

Once well up the bluffs, Reno's command turned around and considered the situation. The Indians had stopped their pursuit, and even now were retreating from range. Reno fired his pistol at the distant warriors in useless defiance of the men who had stampeded him. He was now up some two hundred feet above them, and it was as safe as it was harmless. Two of his best men lay dead down on the banks of the river, and so did more than ten other of his soldiers. The Indians had swarmed all around his troops, and butchered them as they ran. Many more had been wounded, but things appeared safe for the moment. The Indians had mysteriously retreated from their front. Reno did not know what it meant, did not know what had happened to Custer, and did not know where the commands of Benteen and MacDougal were.

Over toward the villages, which they could now see stretching for five miles down the stream, all was total pandemonium and confusion; but northward the bluffs rose still higher to a point nearly opposite the middle of the villages -- a point some two miles from them -- and beyond that they could see nothing. But that is where Custer had gone, and suddenly, splitting through the moist morning air, came the sound of loud and rapid gunfire; complete volleys followed by continuous rattle and roar. The sounds of war grew more intense for the next ten minutes. Some thought they could hear the victory yells of their friends, and they were ready to yell in reply. Others thought they heard the sound of "charge" being blown on the trumpets. Many wanted to mount their horses, and join the fight, which sounded to be just over the bluffs.

(Cont'd)....wine
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Feb 16, 2008 9:12 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
But, almost as suddenly as it had started, the sound of gunfire faded away. The continuous peals of musketry settled into sporadic skirmishing fire. Reno's men looked at each other in confusion. They could not figure out what had just happened.

Reno's men were soon encouraged as they heard the reports of scouts that Benteen and MacDougal were approaching from the east. When they arrived the first thing they asked was, "Have you seen anything of Custer?"

Benteen and Weir scouted up to a mile or more to the north, had seen swarms of Indians in the valley below, but not a sign of Custer and his cavalry.

They concluded that there would be no help from Custer, and they did the only thing they could under these circumstances; they dug in and would try and hold out until Terry and Gibbon got there. Reno did not have the pack train, which gave him ample ammunition and supplies.

The question remained, what had happened to George Custer and his men? The question can only be answered by the Indians who were victorious that day, and one Indian who had been working for Custer. There was one Crow scout in Custer's command who managed to escape the carnage of that day in a Sioux blanket. Between the lone survivor of Custer's command, and the victorious Indian warriors, a fairly consistent story emerges. From all these sources it was not hard to trace Custer's every move during that fateful battle.

Custer's Last Stand...

Never comprehending the overwhelming odds against him, believing that the Indians were "on the run", and thinking that between himself and Reno he could "double them up" in short order, Custer had sealed his fate. It was about five miles from where Custer first saw the northern end of the village and where he attacked the center of the village. During this 5 mile ride, Custer never saw the complete magnitude of the Indian Camp. As he attacked, and rounded the bluff, he found himself confronted with thousands skilled and well equipped warriors, all ready for the fight. He had hoped to attack the center of the village unmolested, and to meet Reno's men there, coming from the other direction. Instead he faced an intense attack from the thickets and trees. He could not ignore the attack, and had to deal with the threat at hand. He had his men dismount, and begin engaging the fire coming from the thickets. This was a perilous move, as he was outnumbered ten to one at this point. Worse than that, hundreds of young braves had mounted their horses and dashed across the river below him, hundreds more were following and circling all about him. It is likely that this is the point that Custer realized that he was in trouble, and that he must cut his way out and escape the overwhelming enemy surrounding him.

His trumpeters sounded "Mount!", and leaving many injured companions on the ground, the men ran for their mounts. With skill and daring, the Ogalallas and Brulés recognized the opportunity, and sprang to their horses, and gave chase. "Make for the heights!" must have been Custer's order, for the first dash was eastward, and then more to the left as their progress was blocked.

Then, as Custer and the remainder of his regiments of 7th cavalry reached higher ground, they must have fully realized the gravity of their situation. For from this vantage point, all they would have been able to see would be throngs of skilled Sioux warrior on horseback, circling and laying down a furious fire. Custer and his command was fully hemmed in, cut off, and losing men quickly. Custer must have realized that at this point retreat was impossible. Some of the Indian victors later reported that at this point Custer ordered that the horses be turned loose, after losing about half of his men.

(Cont'd)....wine
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Feb 16, 2008 9:12 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA67 Threads 10 Polls 8,881 Posts
trish123: I agree Hugz, Ive read a few things over the years too - I loved Hanta Yo..........


A masterpiece. I plan to read it again one of these days.

It amazes me how ignorant the average American is of this shameful part of our history.hug wave
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Feb 16, 2008 9:13 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Keogh, Calhoun, Crittenden, had all been killed along the skirmish line. Smith, Porter, and Reily were found dead with the rest of their men. So were the surgeons, Lord and De Wolf; and, also, were Custer's other brother, "Boston" Custer and the Herald correspondent.

Two men were not found among the dead. Lieutenants Harrington and Jack Sturgis. About 30 men had made a run for their lives down a little gully. The banks of the gully were teamed with Indians, who managed to shoot down the escaping soldiers as they ran. One officer was reported by the Sioux to have managed to break through the deadly circle of Indians, the only white man to do so that day. Five warriors gave chase. It is reported that as the pursuing band was worn down, and giving up the chase, the officer concluded that all was lost, and took his pistol, and shot himself in the head. This soldiers skeleton was pointed out to the officers of the Fifth Cavalry the following year by one of the pursuers. It had not been found before then. Was it Harrington or could it have been Sturgis? Some years later yet another skeleton was found even further from the battle scene. Remnants found at the scene indicated that it was a cavalry officer. If so, all the missing would be accounted for.

The Sole U.S. Army Survivor...

Of the twelve troops of the Seventh Cavalry, Custer led five that hot Sunday into eternity and infamy at the battle of the Little Big Horn, and of his part of the regiment only one living thing escaped the deadly skill of the Sioux warriors. Bleeding from many arrow wounds, weak, thirsty and tired, there came straggling into the lines some days after the fight Keogh's splendid horse "Comanche". Who can ever even imagine the scene as the soldiers thronged around the gallant steed?

Comanche- The only US Army Survivor at the Battle of Little Big Horn.
Editorial Note: There are endless descriptions referring to this horse "Comanche" as the "only survivor of the Battle of Little Big Horn". Please remember that there were thousands of brave and victorious survivors among the Indian Nations. They won the battle and they survived the battle. They were fighting for their lands, their family, and maybe most of all, for their way of life. In the end, their cause was lost, and their battle in vain, but we must remember, and honor their skill, bravery, and honor at this great event in our history.

As a tribute to his service and bravery, the war horse Comanche was never ridden again. He was stabled at Fort Riley, and would periodically be paraded by the US Army. He lived to the age of 29, and when he died his body was mounted and put on display at the University of Kansas, where it stands to this day.

With Custer's men all dead, the triumphant Indians left their bodies to be plundered by their women. The warriors once more focused on Reno's front. There were two nights of celebration and rejoicing in the Indian Camp, though not one instant was the watch on Reno eased. All day of the 26th they kept him penned down in his rifle pits. Early on the morning of the 27th, with great excitement, the lodges were suddenly taken down, and tribe after tribe, village after village, family after family, six thousand Indians passed before his eyes, moving towards the mountains.

Terry and Gibbon had arrived. Reno's small remnant of the 7th cavalry had been saved. Together they reconnoitered the battlefield, and hastily buried their fallen comrades. They then hurried back to the Yellowstone while the Sioux were hiding in around the Big Horn. The Indians were shrewd enough to realize that Crook and Terry would be reinforced. They also realized that their victory would result in the US Army relentlessly pursuing them. As they heard that great numbers of troops were assembling near the Yellowstone and Platte, they took the only reasonable strategy that they could; the great Alliance of Indian Nations quietly dissolved.

(Cont'd)...wine
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Feb 16, 2008 9:15 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Sitting Bull, with many close associates, made for the Yellowstone, and was driven northward by General Miles. Others took refuge across the Little Missouri, where Crook pursued. With much hard pursuit, and even harder fighting, many bands and many famous chiefs were forced into submission that fall and winter. Among these, bravest, most skilled, most victorious of all, was the hero of the Powder River battle, the famed warrior Crazy Horse.

The fame of Crazy Horse, and his exploits had become the stuff of legends among the Indian camps along the Rosebud, even before he joined Sitting Bull. He was a key part of the battle with General Crook on June 17. No chief was as honored or trusted as Crazy Horse.

Up to the time of Little Big Horn, Sitting Bull had no real claims as a warrior, or as a war chief. Eleven days before the fight Sitting Bull had a "sun dance." His own people report that while he was in a trance, he had a vision of his people being attacked by a large force of white men, and that the Sioux would enjoy a great victory over them. The battle of the 17th of June was a partial fulfillment of this vision.

Scouts in the Indian Camp had seen Reno's column approaching, but it was decided that nothing would come of that. Sitting Bull believed that the army was waiting for reinforcements, and he had no expectations that an attack was imminent. Then on the morning of the 25th, two Cheyenne Scouts came running into camp, indicating that a large group of soldiers was approaching. Undoubtedly, this led to the commotion that Custer misread as a panic retreat.

Of course, such a report would mean that the women and children had to be hurried away, the great herds of horses brought in, and the warriors assembled to meet the coming adversary. Even as the great chiefs were running to the council lodge there came the report of gunfire from the south. This was Reno's attack, which the Indians were not expecting. It is reported that the unexpected attack of Reno, and the report that "Long Hair" was dashing up the ravine was too much for Sitting Bull. He is reported to have gathered his family and made his escape to safety. Several miles from the battle, he realized that he was missing one of his children. As he began to return for the missing child, he was surprised to hear the battle waning, and everything becoming quiet. He returned to camp in about 30 minutes, where he found his child. He also found that the battle had been won in his absence.

Without him the Blackfeet and Uncapapas had pushed Reno back and penned him on the bluffs. Without him the Ogalallas, Brulés, and Cheyennes had repulsed Custer's daring assault, then rushed forth and completed a circle of death that consumed Custer, and all the men with him. Again, it was Crazy Horse who was foremost in the fray, riding in and clubbing the bewildered soldiers with his immense club of war.

On this day, Sitting Bull's vision was fully realized, but he was not there. Some loyal followers claimed that he had directed the battle from the lodge. The truth lay in the names given to Sitting Bull's twins- "The one that was Taken", and "The one that was Left".

In the years after the conflict, many warriors would tell of their great exploits in the great battle. Rain in the Face would even brag that he had killed Custer with his own hand. In the midst of all the bravado and story telling one man emerged as the man most respected by his comrades on that glorious day. The man most respected by the Indians on that day, for his bravery and leadership, was Crazy Horse. Crazy Horse was killed not long after the battle as he tried to escape Crook's guard.




wine
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Feb 16, 2008 9:16 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Ambrose2007: A masterpiece. I plan to read it again one of these days.

It amazes me how ignorant the average American is of this shameful part of our history.


Yes that's the truth...and there are alot of stories to be told...hug hug kiss
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Feb 16, 2008 9:19 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA67 Threads 10 Polls 8,881 Posts
Hugz_n_Kissez: Yes that's the truth...and there are alot of stories to be told...


wave hug heart beating

I wonder what they would've done to guys in togas back then, H&K?
conversing moping dunno
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Feb 16, 2008 9:24 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Ambrose2007: I wonder what they would've done to guys in togas back then, H&K?


UMMMMMMMMMMMM...Probably lynched em...uh oh You should feel lucky you live in such and accepting society today...One who doesn't care if you wear a dress or not!!!!!!!


laugh wink
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Feb 16, 2008 9:25 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA67 Threads 10 Polls 8,881 Posts
Hugz_n_Kissez: UMMMMMMMMMMMM...Probably lynched em... You should feel lucky you live in such and accepting society today...One who doesn't care if you wear a dress or not!!!!!!!


mumbling sigh dunno

wave roll eyes
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Feb 16, 2008 9:27 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
wave teddybear lips grin
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Feb 16, 2008 10:11 PM CST The Trail of Tears.....
TTom50
TTom50TTom50Orlando, Florida USA21 Threads 10 Polls 1,301 Posts
cherokeemoon2: I am sorry ,but I think u need the history lesson.Do u know how many women,children,and elderly Custer killed and ordered killed?Neither do I.Too many to count, no one will ever know.His motto was the only good indian is a dead indian.Enough said? I hope so.Truce talks were a joke and a ruse many times to slaughter those dumb indians who actually believed it was within their reach to make a truce.The Native American finally learned that nearly every time they were told something,it was a lie.They were starved because there was a 1.00 to be made .I am as much white as I am native american,but still know injustice when I see or hear it. Guess its the indian in me, maybe? Most of Custers men did not want to go into battle that day,and no some didnt deserve a death like that.But most only got what they had dished out.A lot committed suicide that day,rather than fall in to the hands of the indians.


I said there were men and women on both sides that were of good spirits and hearts that tried to keep events of the Indian wars from happening.

Custer was not one. He was just as bad as the troopers that took the Cherokee to the reservation, maybe worse. But there is killing in war and there is tortured killing. Later year foresincs of the bones of the 7th Calvary troopers saw nearly everyone of them with either knife wounds or hatchet blows or saw marks. They were mutilated and cut apart. The reason they took thier own lives, was to keep them from a tortured death. If you wish to make men of Plains Indian tribes into heros or think that 'justice was done' for doing such things, you lose me.

I also said Custer was a fool. Not just for his taking the 7th that day to Little Big Horn, but also for his comments and feelings toward the Indian. Custer could have never entered that camp under a flag of truce and that was part of the problem then. Niether side was talking.
The Indains did not ride out that day with a flag of truce either. They immediately engaged Bennet? unit prior to engaging Custer's at the river.

Lastly, are you saying the Plains Indian tribes were not gathering there for war that year? Every that they had done earlier, arming with repeating rifles, raiding of miners and settler camps for horses and supplies, and the biggest indication was the gathering itself.....and how fast they engaged Bennet.....all said they were going to war. It takes two to fight. Two can read history, each can remember it as they wish. But if you seek make butchers (of either side) into heros, again you lose me.

Last point, I have no idea to the number of settler's women, children, and elderly that the Indian wars claimed either. But it was a significant number, as well. Both sides were abusing the weak and innocent in the wars.
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