Iran:Under the boots of Ayaytullahs (15)
Thanks for posting this Longbird. Iran has been somewhat isolated since the early 80s. With the way things are today it seems as though we are closer than we have ever been to armed conflict. What does the average person on the street in Iran think about the current political situation there? I wonder if there is as much dissatisfaction felt there as is felt by many in the US with our current foreign policy.
I have heard rumor and guesses but as someone who is there, perhaps you can give some on the ground insight.
I have heard rumor and guesses but as someone who is there, perhaps you can give some on the ground insight.
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Sparky55: Thanks for posting this Longbird. Iran has been somewhat isolated since the early 80s. With the way things are today it seems as though we are closer than we have ever been to armed conflict. What does the average person on the street in Iran think about the current political situation there? I wonder if there is as much dissatisfaction felt there as is felt by many in the US with our current foreign policy.
I have heard rumor and guesses but as someone who is there, perhaps you can give some on the ground insight.
I have heard rumor and guesses but as someone who is there, perhaps you can give some on the ground insight.
The last I heard Sparky, the average person on the street could get locked away in prison without a trial for so much as sneezing in front of the wrong person. Many academics have been disappeared too if Im not mistaken.
Great thread and thanks for the information Longbird
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trish123: The last I heard Sparky, the average person on the street could get locked away in prison without a trial for so much as sneezing in front of the wrong person. Many academics have been disappeared too if Im not mistaken.
Great thread and thanks for the information Longbird
Great thread and thanks for the information Longbird
Hi Trish,
I have heard the same. I have also heard from several people who heard it from a friend, who heard it from another that there is wide spread dissatisfaction with the government, wide spread poverty which Longbird mentioned. I was also surprised to hear about wide spread drug usage.
Anyway, I'm hoping someone a little closer to the actual area can shed some more light on this.
I would guess Iran is much the same as other countries in that the people by and large are pretty good and it's just the assanine decisions of government which cause most of the problems.
Later...
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Sparky55: Hi Trish,
I have heard the same. I have also heard from several people who heard it from a friend, who heard it from another that there is wide spread dissatisfaction with the government, wide spread poverty which Longbird mentioned. I was also surprised to hear about wide spread drug usage.
Anyway, I'm hoping someone a little closer to the actual area can shed some more light on this.
I would guess Iran is much the same as other countries in that the people by and large are pretty good and it's just the assanine decisions of government which cause most of the problems.
Later...
I have heard the same. I have also heard from several people who heard it from a friend, who heard it from another that there is wide spread dissatisfaction with the government, wide spread poverty which Longbird mentioned. I was also surprised to hear about wide spread drug usage.
Anyway, I'm hoping someone a little closer to the actual area can shed some more light on this.
I would guess Iran is much the same as other countries in that the people by and large are pretty good and it's just the assanine decisions of government which cause most of the problems.
Later...
HAve a look on Reuters web site Sparky, theres much to be found there and all over the net - i was trying to find a video, theres some good ones by Noam Chomsky on the Iran issues to be found on utube - but I am out of time here and have to rush off for now.
I think you are so right about the "assinine decisions of governments"
laters...............
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Signed at Tehran, December 1, 1943
(b) Declaration of the Three Powers Regarding Iran, December 1, 1943
The President of the United States, the Premier of the U. S. S. R. and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, having consulted with each other and with the Prime Minister of Iran, desire to declare the mutual agreement of their three Governments regarding their relations with Iran.
The Governments of the United States, the U. S. S. R., and the United Kingdom recognize the assistance which Iran has given in the prosecution of the war against the common enemy, particularly by facilitating the transportation of supplies from overseas to the Soviet Union.
The Three Governments realize that the war has caused special economic difficulties for Iran, and they are agreed that they will continue to make available to the Government of Iran such economic assistance as may be possible, having regard to the heavy demands made upon them by their world-wide military operations, and to the world-wide shortage of transport, raw materials, and supplies for civilian consumption.
With respect to the post-war period, the Governments of the United States, the U. S. S. R., and the United Kingdom are in accord with the Government of Iran that any economic problems confronting Iran at the close of hostilities should receive full consideration, along with those of other members of the United Nations, by conferences or international agencies held or created to deal with international economic matters.
The Governments of the United States, the U. S. S. R., and the United Kingdom are at one with the Government of Iran in their desire for the maintenance of the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iran They count upon the participation of Iran, together with all other peace-loving nations, in the establishment of international peace, security and prosperity after the war, in accordance with the principles of the Atlantic Charter, to which all four Governments have subscribed.
WINSTON S. CHURCHILL
J. STALIN
FRANKLIN D ROOSEVELT
(c) Military Conclusions of the Tehran Conference
The Conference:-
(1) Agreed that the Partisans in Yugoslavia should be supported by supplies and equipment to the greatest possible extent, and also by commando operations:
(2) Agreed that, from the military point of view, it was most desirable that Turkey should come into the war on the side of the Allies before the end of the year:
(3) Took note of Marshal Stalin's statement that if Turkey found herself at war with Germany, and as a result Bulgaria declared war on Turkey or attacked her, the Soviet would immediately be at war with Bulgaria. The Conference further took note that this fact could be explicitly stated in the forthcoming negotiations to bring Turkey into the war:
(4) Took note that Operation OVERLORD would be launched during May 1944, in conjunction with an operation against Southern France. The latter operation would be undertaken in as great a strength as availability of landing-craft permitted. The Conference further took note of Marshal Stalin's statement that the Soviet forces would launch an offensive at about the same time with the object of preventing the German forces from transferring from the Eastern to the Western Front:
(5) Agreed that the military staffs of the Three Powers should henceforward keep in close touch with each other in regard to the impending operations in Europe. In particular it was agreed that a cover plan to mystify and mislead the enemy as regards these operations should be concerted between the staffs concerned.
FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT
JOSEPH V. STALIN
WINSTON S. CHURCHILL
TEHRAN, December 1, 1943
(b) Declaration of the Three Powers Regarding Iran, December 1, 1943
The President of the United States, the Premier of the U. S. S. R. and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, having consulted with each other and with the Prime Minister of Iran, desire to declare the mutual agreement of their three Governments regarding their relations with Iran.
The Governments of the United States, the U. S. S. R., and the United Kingdom recognize the assistance which Iran has given in the prosecution of the war against the common enemy, particularly by facilitating the transportation of supplies from overseas to the Soviet Union.
The Three Governments realize that the war has caused special economic difficulties for Iran, and they are agreed that they will continue to make available to the Government of Iran such economic assistance as may be possible, having regard to the heavy demands made upon them by their world-wide military operations, and to the world-wide shortage of transport, raw materials, and supplies for civilian consumption.
With respect to the post-war period, the Governments of the United States, the U. S. S. R., and the United Kingdom are in accord with the Government of Iran that any economic problems confronting Iran at the close of hostilities should receive full consideration, along with those of other members of the United Nations, by conferences or international agencies held or created to deal with international economic matters.
The Governments of the United States, the U. S. S. R., and the United Kingdom are at one with the Government of Iran in their desire for the maintenance of the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iran They count upon the participation of Iran, together with all other peace-loving nations, in the establishment of international peace, security and prosperity after the war, in accordance with the principles of the Atlantic Charter, to which all four Governments have subscribed.
WINSTON S. CHURCHILL
J. STALIN
FRANKLIN D ROOSEVELT
(c) Military Conclusions of the Tehran Conference
The Conference:-
(1) Agreed that the Partisans in Yugoslavia should be supported by supplies and equipment to the greatest possible extent, and also by commando operations:
(2) Agreed that, from the military point of view, it was most desirable that Turkey should come into the war on the side of the Allies before the end of the year:
(3) Took note of Marshal Stalin's statement that if Turkey found herself at war with Germany, and as a result Bulgaria declared war on Turkey or attacked her, the Soviet would immediately be at war with Bulgaria. The Conference further took note that this fact could be explicitly stated in the forthcoming negotiations to bring Turkey into the war:
(4) Took note that Operation OVERLORD would be launched during May 1944, in conjunction with an operation against Southern France. The latter operation would be undertaken in as great a strength as availability of landing-craft permitted. The Conference further took note of Marshal Stalin's statement that the Soviet forces would launch an offensive at about the same time with the object of preventing the German forces from transferring from the Eastern to the Western Front:
(5) Agreed that the military staffs of the Three Powers should henceforward keep in close touch with each other in regard to the impending operations in Europe. In particular it was agreed that a cover plan to mystify and mislead the enemy as regards these operations should be concerted between the staffs concerned.
FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT
JOSEPH V. STALIN
WINSTON S. CHURCHILL
TEHRAN, December 1, 1943
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I wish White House will read it first before they decide to invade Iran.
Longbird Could you tell me more about USA-Iranian relationship nowadays. Why do you think USA so eager to invade Iran?
Longbird Could you tell me more about USA-Iranian relationship nowadays. Why do you think USA so eager to invade Iran?
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Thanks for sharing longbird..
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Hi again
First I want to apologize from people who maybe the names of their countries are mentioning sometimes bad here. I do not want to insult anybody and I am trying to say things according to the documents.
Let's continue our story. How Mullahs took Power. When Carter who is a foolish humanitarian, pressured Shah to open the society of Iran, As I said there were no liberal man and woman in the country. People did not know anything about politics (like Turkey now). They were completely alien with intellectuals and just listening to Mullas even educated people. Islam had a very high value in community and absorbed almost everybody (like Turkey now days). Intellectuals were messengers of violence and terror according to Islam and Communism which was fashion in those days almost everywhere. From other side peaceful request did not listen by powers and super powers. In this situation 3 main groups were growing in Iran: 1- Mullahs who had wide spread communication network in all over the country. 2- Communists that people did not like them. 3 – A combination of Islam and Communism.
Secret police of Shah did not permit anybody to speak about politics and we also should consider the great role of Soviet Union in all of 20th century events. In fear of Soviet Union Berzhinski Presented a doctoring which was called Religious Belt or Green Belt. According to this doctrine, religious values must be supported everywhere especially in Countries neighboring Soviet Union.
Therefore they have started to make huge films like The Message about Prophet Mohammed, Ten Commands about Moses and some films about Christ. Salary was paid to Mullahs in Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia etc. In fact they did wherever they could for empowering religious people and movements against Communism.
At the same year Soviet Union Attacked Afghanistan and West saw religion is a very efficient and useful instrument and in fact it worked very well against Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
I should add here that what Carter did, was not just because of his personal problem with Shah. It was a program to have some reforms again in Countries neighboring Soviet Union! To make them immune against Communism.
Okay. After the 1953 Coup, England was driven out almost completely from Iran and even Shah in some interview spoke against them.
IMPORTANT: We must know that in Shi' Islam there is a rule which is very important to know that. It is called: Taghyeh which means hiding. According to this rule you can hide your faith, your believes and you can show yourself somebody completely different from what you are really (this confuses westerners about government of Iran). According to this rule you may do every wrong thing to save your life or to reach to your goal. You can swear that you do not want to make nuclear weapon, but at the same time think how destroy all over the world with nuclear weapons!
Okay! Khomeiny used exactly this method in Paris. He cheated people of Iran with promising about free Electricity, water, bus and giving some money and no problem for women and freedom for all of the parties left or right, but he was lying all the time! And sometimes when he could not prevent saying what he wanted to do exactly, his translators which were so called Persian intellectuals which educating abroad, translated it for reporters something completely different.
Khomeini also cheated Americans and promised them that when he comes back to Iran, he will not interfere in political affairs and will go to a mosque and will pray to God! Carter accepted to remove Shah and bring Khomeini! And he came back!
To be continue!
First I want to apologize from people who maybe the names of their countries are mentioning sometimes bad here. I do not want to insult anybody and I am trying to say things according to the documents.
Let's continue our story. How Mullahs took Power. When Carter who is a foolish humanitarian, pressured Shah to open the society of Iran, As I said there were no liberal man and woman in the country. People did not know anything about politics (like Turkey now). They were completely alien with intellectuals and just listening to Mullas even educated people. Islam had a very high value in community and absorbed almost everybody (like Turkey now days). Intellectuals were messengers of violence and terror according to Islam and Communism which was fashion in those days almost everywhere. From other side peaceful request did not listen by powers and super powers. In this situation 3 main groups were growing in Iran: 1- Mullahs who had wide spread communication network in all over the country. 2- Communists that people did not like them. 3 – A combination of Islam and Communism.
Secret police of Shah did not permit anybody to speak about politics and we also should consider the great role of Soviet Union in all of 20th century events. In fear of Soviet Union Berzhinski Presented a doctoring which was called Religious Belt or Green Belt. According to this doctrine, religious values must be supported everywhere especially in Countries neighboring Soviet Union.
Therefore they have started to make huge films like The Message about Prophet Mohammed, Ten Commands about Moses and some films about Christ. Salary was paid to Mullahs in Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia etc. In fact they did wherever they could for empowering religious people and movements against Communism.
At the same year Soviet Union Attacked Afghanistan and West saw religion is a very efficient and useful instrument and in fact it worked very well against Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
I should add here that what Carter did, was not just because of his personal problem with Shah. It was a program to have some reforms again in Countries neighboring Soviet Union! To make them immune against Communism.
Okay. After the 1953 Coup, England was driven out almost completely from Iran and even Shah in some interview spoke against them.
IMPORTANT: We must know that in Shi' Islam there is a rule which is very important to know that. It is called: Taghyeh which means hiding. According to this rule you can hide your faith, your believes and you can show yourself somebody completely different from what you are really (this confuses westerners about government of Iran). According to this rule you may do every wrong thing to save your life or to reach to your goal. You can swear that you do not want to make nuclear weapon, but at the same time think how destroy all over the world with nuclear weapons!
Okay! Khomeiny used exactly this method in Paris. He cheated people of Iran with promising about free Electricity, water, bus and giving some money and no problem for women and freedom for all of the parties left or right, but he was lying all the time! And sometimes when he could not prevent saying what he wanted to do exactly, his translators which were so called Persian intellectuals which educating abroad, translated it for reporters something completely different.
Khomeini also cheated Americans and promised them that when he comes back to Iran, he will not interfere in political affairs and will go to a mosque and will pray to God! Carter accepted to remove Shah and bring Khomeini! And he came back!
To be continue!
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Konigsberg: I wish White House will read it first before they decide to invade Iran.
Longbird Could you tell me more about USA-Iranian relationship nowadays. Why do you think USA so eager to invade Iran?
Longbird Could you tell me more about USA-Iranian relationship nowadays. Why do you think USA so eager to invade Iran?
jmo here, Konigsberg and some fact.
Our Joint Chiefs of Staff did a military report on Iran. And advised against any 'military invasion' of the country. They did not take the
'military option' away.......such as air operations, special teams ops,
and such as that. But any kind invasion or occupation of Iran, they
are against.
We talk of the Iranian situation a lot. Because of the fundamental Islamic regieme that it has and that ever since coming to power it
has supported terrorism, in many forms.
Also we have a problem when a US Embassy is sacked and its employees are held captive for a lengthy period of time. By International law that was the same as if they had stepped onto US Soil and invaded our country when that occurred. Technically, that was a act of war. A act of war that even today that has not been negotiated to a ceasefire, or peace treaty. Iran has never made
or offered repariation to the 126 Americans that they invicted such
pain on.
With Iran pressing hard for both nuclear materials programs and a possible nuclear device program, with Russia fully or nearly fully supporting Iran, we see the potential for nuclear terrorism coming
from Iran.
And yes, if such occurs...the relationship between Russia and the
United States will be at a all time low, it will make the cold war seem like a kid's snow ball fight. Honestly, the one thing that would put American boots into Iran, is some kind nuclear terrorist attack. That Joint Chiefs report would be over ridden by a Executive order so fast, it would be on their desk the next day for military operations against Iran.
We could go on here......talk of American policy abuses aginst Iran, the
Iraq war, price of oil, and difference between east and west. But until
Iran divests itself of terrorism, there is not much room to talk.
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Longbird, please tell fellow CSer about the Mosque of 12 Domes near Tehran. About its religous ideology and philosphies. This is the Mosque that Iranian President A. grew up in. He was orphaned and this Mosque took him in, educated him and gave him a start in life. Today, he uses many of it clerics as advisors.
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trish123: HAve a look on Reuters web site Sparky, theres much to be found there and all over the net - i was trying to find a video, theres some good ones by Noam Chomsky on the Iran issues to be found on utube - but I am out of time here and have to rush off for now.
I think you are so right about the "assinine decisions of governments"laters...............
I think you are so right about the "assinine decisions of governments"laters...............
Hi again Trish. Sorry, I kinda lost track of this thread over the past couple of days but I want to continue this conversation. I will make it a point to look up some more information on this and share it with you.
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Hi Longbird,
Some really intersting and tragic stuff. It will take some time to really take it in but I wanted to say thanks again for posting this thread and didn't want you to think your words were written to a blind audience. After all, we asked you to do it.
Some really intersting and tragic stuff. It will take some time to really take it in but I wanted to say thanks again for posting this thread and didn't want you to think your words were written to a blind audience. After all, we asked you to do it.
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Hi Again
First I want sincerely thank here of some English people who gathered in front of Iran Embassy in London today and showed their support from Mansoor Osanloo the leader of one the Workers Syndicates in Iran which with some of his friends are now in prison. Especially from that English woman who said: Osanloo is my brother and I want to be with him in prison. Thank you!
Khomeini is copy of Prophet Mohammad and Islamic Revolution is a copy of advent of Islam. Therefore it is necessary to know the real history of Islam itself!
There is a very good book about real history of Islam which everybody could download free and with reading it understands what Islam is really? This book has been translated to some live languages. The name of book is: 23 Years and the writer of book is Ali Dashti. I strongly recommend to interested friends to read this book.
About information about Islam I suggest this site which has many links also:
Site is in Persian and English language both!
If friends have any question about Islamic Revolution of Iran, I am ready to answer if I can, but I must know what you are eager to know!
First I want sincerely thank here of some English people who gathered in front of Iran Embassy in London today and showed their support from Mansoor Osanloo the leader of one the Workers Syndicates in Iran which with some of his friends are now in prison. Especially from that English woman who said: Osanloo is my brother and I want to be with him in prison. Thank you!
Khomeini is copy of Prophet Mohammad and Islamic Revolution is a copy of advent of Islam. Therefore it is necessary to know the real history of Islam itself!
There is a very good book about real history of Islam which everybody could download free and with reading it understands what Islam is really? This book has been translated to some live languages. The name of book is: 23 Years and the writer of book is Ali Dashti. I strongly recommend to interested friends to read this book.
About information about Islam I suggest this site which has many links also:
Site is in Persian and English language both!
If friends have any question about Islamic Revolution of Iran, I am ready to answer if I can, but I must know what you are eager to know!
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Thank you for the thread and the info on Iran. It is hard for us to understand what has happened in Iran since the Revolution then.
It has largely become a closed society to many in the west. Both by the western sanctions and by the rules of the Iranian gov't and clerics.
Again thanks.
It has largely become a closed society to many in the west. Both by the western sanctions and by the rules of the Iranian gov't and clerics.
Again thanks.
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I think it is necessary to say these things first. After Revolution in Russia in 1917, England decided to surround Soviet Union from every side. Therefore Reza Shah with a Coup took power in Iran. The same happened in Turkey (Ataturk), Afghanistan (Aman ullah Khan), Iraq and some countries in Europe. The Agenda was rebuilding these countries and make them safe and secure in front of Communism. After A while Reza Shah did not accept to obey English in every way. He remained in Power until England, America and Soviet Union occupied peacefully Iran in WWII. Reza Shah was exiled by English and his son, Mohammad Reza Shah replaced him. For 12 years from 1941 till 1953 we had democratic governments in Iran. After the War Russians wanted to continue occupation of Iran, but Harry Truman threatened them to use nuclear weapon against Russia and Russia was obliged to empty Iran. Shah did not have any Power. In 1951 Dr. Mossadegh became prime minister of Iran. He decided to nationalize oil which was plundering by English! 2 years challenge! Dr. Mossadegh convicted English in the International Court in the Hague. England encircled Iran from Persian Gulf ways and did not permit Iran to sell its oil. Americans supported Iran, and they suggested Iran share half&half by English, But Dr. Mosadegh made a mistake and did not accept. English convinced Americans about a Coup against Mosadegh! Americans somehow were obliged to accept. Coup happened in 1953, Dr. Mossadegh was sent to Jail and Shah took power again. He started to become a dictator. 1n 1960 Americans obliged him to have great reforms in Iran and he did. Iran started to progress and around 70ties we were one the richest countries in region and the world. Our Army was the fifth power in the world. Shah made a mistake again. He interfered in America's election in 1976 against Jimmy Carter. He won the election and asked Shah to open the Society of Iran. Liberal powers were destroyed by Shah beforehand. This open Society gave time to religious powers to rise against Shah. Jimmy Carter did not support him and let him go. Shah Was mentally a weak man from the beginning of his life unlike his father. BBC played a great role to MAKE an Revolution in Iran and Shah collapsed and Mullahs took power! And it was 11th of February 1979! AND ISLAMIC FOUNDEMENTALISM STARTED IN THE WORLD!