Tour de France or Tour de Fraud! (43)
It's been going on for decades. Uncle of mine was a good amateur cyclist. A clean one BTW, as it is in amateur circles in this country. Anyway he told me back in the '80s went to Belgium for a race. At the start line he heard all the cracking and crunching... wasn't sure what it was...
looked at the ground and he said he saw all the syringes been dropped and the wheels going over them when they took off.
Cycling is a mugs game at the top.
looked at the ground and he said he saw all the syringes been dropped and the wheels going over them when they took off.
Cycling is a mugs game at the top.
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MADDOG69: It's been going on for decades. Uncle of mine was a good amateur cyclist. A clean one BTW, as it is in amateur circles in this country. Anyway he told me back in the '80s went to Belgium for a race. At the start line he heard all the cracking and crunching... wasn't sure what it was...
looked at the ground and he said he saw all the syringes been dropped and the wheels going over them when they took off.
Cycling is a mugs game at the top.
looked at the ground and he said he saw all the syringes been dropped and the wheels going over them when they took off.
Cycling is a mugs game at the top.
I loved watching the Tour de France when I was younger. Armstrong was one of my sporting idols. To read some of the stuff that he may have been involved in is an absolutely sickening. He is bascally accused of running a drug ring in his cycling teams!
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This thread is probably the most myopic I've ever seen on CS. Talk about ill informed....
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skyblue43: This thread is probably the most myopic I've ever seen on CS. Talk about ill informed....
Well inform us so Sky! What have I said that you don't agree with?
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mr1983: The Tour de France finished today with a British one-two in the overall standings. The second placed cyclist has in the last few years made strides that even by cycling's doping past is virtually unheard of. Lance Armstrong is almost certainly going to be unveiled a doper this year. Contador is a doper. There was four cyclists in the race who were granted partial immunity to give evidence on Lance Armstrong. The greatest cyclists of all time, Eddie Merckx was caught doping 3 times. Stephen Roche almost certainly doped also! This sport is a fraud!
Yeah, they're all at it. If you weren't you wouldn't be in the game. It's the same with every sport, especially the Olympics. They should just get rid of the stupid ban on performance enhancing drugs and let them all at it.
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mr1983: Well inform us so Sky! What have I said that you don't agree with?
As I'm sure you are aware cyclists are now the most tested of all sports. Do you think there are more clean swimming records than tour winners? More Olympic or World 100m champions? Maybe there are no steroids in American football, weightlifting must be clean too?
In this years race it was clear that riders were having difficulty having consecutive good days after making a big effort on a given day. Performances fluctuated. Without a doubt an almost clean race...
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yeah its got a bad reputation ,then again most sports have cheats,fair play to wiggins do!
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skyblue43: As I'm sure you are aware cyclists are now the most tested of all sports. Do you think there are more clean swimming records than tour winners? More Olympic or World 100m champions? Maybe there are no steroids in American football, weightlifting must be clean too?
In this years race it was clear that riders were having difficulty having consecutive good days after making a big effort on a given day. Performances fluctuated. Without a doubt an almost clean race...
In this years race it was clear that riders were having difficulty having consecutive good days after making a big effort on a given day. Performances fluctuated. Without a doubt an almost clean race...
The medical teams in cycling are at the cutting edge when it comes to masking agents and blood doping. Two cyclists came out and gave evidence either this year or last year and stated just how easy it is to tamper with or mask drugs in their system. I can't remember their names off the top of my head but I'll find them and post them. Blood doping is virtually impossible to trace. The authorities are making inroads but the medical teams are just coming up with more ways to avoid detection.
Froome was an average cyclists up to a couple of years ago. Suddenly he is the best cyclists in the world. He states his fast improvement was due to a illness he had. He seemingly was suffering from this, this year also. He didn't start training until the end of April due to this. And with that small amount of training, he blows everyone away in the mountains this year! Something doesn't add up here!
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mr1983: The medical teams in cycling are at the cutting edge when it comes to masking agents and blood doping. Two cyclists came out and gave evidence either this year or last year and stated just how easy it is to tamper with or mask drugs in their system. I can't remember their names off the top of my head but I'll find them and post them. Blood doping is virtually impossible to trace. The authorities are making inroads but the medical teams are just coming up with more ways to avoid detection.
Froome was an average cyclists up to a couple of years ago. Suddenly he is the best cyclists in the world. He states his fast improvement was due to a illness he had. He seemingly was suffering from this, this year also. He didn't start training until the end of April due to this. And with that small amount of training, he blows everyone away in the mountains this year! Something doesn't add up here!
Froome was an average cyclists up to a couple of years ago. Suddenly he is the best cyclists in the world. He states his fast improvement was due to a illness he had. He seemingly was suffering from this, this year also. He didn't start training until the end of April due to this. And with that small amount of training, he blows everyone away in the mountains this year! Something doesn't add up here!
I have no argument with you on the issue of drugs in sport. My problem is your opinion that cycling is in some way unique in the world of sports. What probably makes it unique is that it chases and then suspends cheats. Most other sports sweep their problems under the carpet to protect the image of their sports.
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skyblue43: I have no argument with you on the issue of drugs in sport. My problem is your opinion that cycling is in some way unique in the world of sports. What probably makes it unique is that it chases and then suspends cheats. Most other sports sweep their problems under the carpet to protect the image of their sports.
I loved watching cycling. But it finally came to a point when I admitted that it was basically a fraudulent sport. I take your point regarding the possibilities of drug use in other sports. The problem though comes from the fact that all the great champions in cycling have either admitted, been caught or been strongly linked to doping. This happens in few other sports. The two cyclists I was talking about are Thomas Frei and Bernhard Kohl. Their testimony basically made a mockery of the tests the cycling authorities use.
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skyblue43: I have no argument with you on the issue of drugs in sport. My problem is your opinion that cycling is in some way unique in the world of sports. What probably makes it unique is that it chases and then suspends cheats. Most other sports sweep their problems under the carpet to protect the image of their sports.
I'd have no problem with that assertion. Maybe the OP is connected to cycling or has a particular interest in it as a sport.
Even Show jumping, greyhound racing etc I would say are not immune to this.
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Contador was accused by many people of using drugs after his Verbiers climb in the 2007 tour(think it was 2007). Many stated that it was impossible for a human to climb at his rate on this climb without the help of an oxygen transportation type drug. A couple of experts came out in the end and said it wasn't completely impossible so that was the end of that. I find it amazing that finally when he was found with a specific drug in his system that it was one with the specific effect to help oxygen transportation.
There was also signs of plastisizer in his sample which points strongly at a possible blood transfusion.
There was also signs of plastisizer in his sample which points strongly at a possible blood transfusion.
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mr1983: Contador was accused by many people of using drugs after his Verbiers climb in the 2007 tour(think it was 2007). Many stated that it was impossible for a human to climb at his rate on this climb without the help of an oxygen transportation type drug. A couple of experts came out in the end and said it wasn't completely impossible so that was the end of that. I find it amazing that finally when he was found with a specific drug in his system that it was one with the specific effect to help oxygen transportation.
There was also signs of plastisizer in his sample which points strongly at a possible blood transfusion.
There was also signs of plastisizer in his sample which points strongly at a possible blood transfusion.
I'll repeat what I said already even though you only consider doping in other sports to be "possible". As Face and Maddog say it is in all top level sport. Of course it is 'possible' also that a small island in the Carribean is also coincidentally producing all the top 100m sprinters in the world...
I have great faith in the anti doping cycling journalists and also in the French public. Their reactions to Armstrong, Riis, Contador over the years spoke louder than any doping test results.
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MADDOG69: Even Show jumping
Speaking of which... I see that cheating little tool is back in this years Olympics. He has a neck like a jockeys b0ll1x
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facetowardsfront: Speaking of which... I see that cheating little tool is back in this years Olympics. He has a neck like a jockeys b0ll1x
What about the poor horse that was banned due to "ultra sensitive legs" or words to that effect, and it is a natural occurrence, nothing to do with doping
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Glengirl: What about the poor horse that was banned due to "ultra sensitive legs" or words to that effect, and it is a natural occurrence, nothing to do with doping
I didn't hear about that. Was it this stuff?
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facetowardsfront: I didn't hear about that. Was it this stuff?
I'm not sure. When I heard the report on the radio, they stressed that it wasn't drug related......
I'm not that well up on my horsey technology
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Glengirl: What about the poor horse that was banned due to "ultra sensitive legs" or words to that effect, and it is a natural occurrence, nothing to do with doping
Denis Lynchs horse was disqualified at the CHIO in Aachen because of ultra sensitive legs. The vets copped it after the Nations cup and he was supposed to show the horse to the vets the next morning but he didn't. It is possible that the legs are sensitive because they hurt them at an earlier stage but foul play is suspected because Denis Lynch was caught before, he was disqualified in Hong Kong because he used Capsaicin and in Rio another horse was caught with ultra sensitive legs.
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Glengirl: I'm not sure. When I heard the report on the radio, they stressed that it wasn't drug related......
I'm not that well up on my horsey technology
I'm not that well up on my horsey technology
What they do is they make the horses legs very sensitive so that it really doesn't want to hit the fences, so it jumps better. Now the capsicum (pepper) is banned they will find something else so what the officials have to do is run their hand along the horses legs when they test them to see if the legs are sensitive, indicating something is being used.
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facetowardsfront: I didn't hear about that. Was it this stuff?
Yep. I remember been at a drunken kitchen table during a conversation between 'horsey' people when it went down a few years back. What I gleamed from the strong opinions were that certain things are accepted in the sport. They weren't discussing the outrage that he had been banned... they were discussing the outrage over WHY he was picked to be banned when it seems that practice was widespread up and down the country in stables.
Which brings me back to what skyblue43 was saying. The reason cycling has such a bad name ironically, is because so many have openly challenged these practices and spoken out. When will we see the lifting sports, the track and field sports, and even the Horse sports get a bad name by virtue of confronting their own little problems?
Oh and GAA. All them guys are doped up.
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KNenagh: Denis Lynchs horse was disqualified at the CHIO in Aachen because of ultra sensitive legs. The vets copped it after the Nations cup and he was supposed to show the horse to the vets the next morning but he didn't. It is possible that the legs are sensitive because they hurt them at an earlier stage but foul play is suspected because Denis Lynch was caught before, he was disqualified in Hong Kong because he used Capsaicin and in Rio another horse was caught with ultra sensitive legs.
Now here's a woman that knows her horsey stuff
I just thought it strange when I heard the report, but as I say, I don't know anything about horses but your explanation makes sense
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MADDOG69: Yep. I remember been at a drunken kitchen table during a conversation between 'horsey' people when it went down a few years back. What I gleamed from the strong opinions were that certain things are accepted in the sport. They weren't discussing the outrage that he had been banned... they were discussing the outrage over WHY he was picked to be banned when it seems that practice was widespread up and down the country in stables.
Which brings me back to what skyblue43 was saying. The reason cycling has such a bad name ironically, is because so many have openly challenged these practices and spoken out. When will we see the lifting sports, the track and field sports, and even the Horse sports get a bad name by virtue of confronting their own little problems?
Oh and GAA. All them guys are doped up.
Which brings me back to what skyblue43 was saying. The reason cycling has such a bad name ironically, is because so many have openly challenged these practices and spoken out. When will we see the lifting sports, the track and field sports, and even the Horse sports get a bad name by virtue of confronting their own little problems?
Oh and GAA. All them guys are doped up.
Pure testosterone
You don't get a wind up that easily
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skyblue43: I'll repeat what I said already even though you only consider doping in other sports to be "possible". As Face and Maddog say it is in all top level sport. Of course it is 'possible' also that a small island in the Carribean is also coincidentally producing all the top 100m sprinters in the world...
I have great faith in the anti doping cycling journalists and also in the French public. Their reactions to Armstrong, Riis, Contador over the years spoke louder than any doping test results.
I have great faith in the anti doping cycling journalists and also in the French public. Their reactions to Armstrong, Riis, Contador over the years spoke louder than any doping test results.
The French public have massive reservations about team Sky and have been extremely verbal about Froome. There was uproar that the likes of ValVerde and Leipheimer were allowed to race this year. Add to that Frank Scleck's failed drug test and i find it hard to think that this year's race was clean.
On top of this, the history of the sport is littered by doping champions. So they are my reasons for stating that cycling is a fraudulent sport.
As for other sports, yes drug taking occurs. But not to the levels seen in cycling. The problem with cycling goes back years to a time when painkillers,etc were accepted as part of the norm. The authorities turned a blind eye to this due to the effects of the endurance sapping races. Cyclists and their medical teams started experimenting with different types of drugs and from this point, the medical teams have always been in front of the authorities. A culture of doping developed with the sport.
I'm just saying that it is hard to follow a sport where their is a strong possibility that all 20 of the previous champions of the main stage race have question marks hanging over them. At least in other sports there may be an illusion of fairness. Not in cycling.
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Glengirl: Now here's a woman that knows her horsey stuff
I just thought it strange when I heard the report, but as I say, I don't know anything about horses but your explanation makes sense
I just thought it strange when I heard the report, but as I say, I don't know anything about horses but your explanation makes sense
He wasn't banned from what I heard because they can't prove he used Capsaicin (made from chili) and the horse could have been injured, but he and 4 others were caught in Hong Kong using that stuff and at this stage he was caught more than once.
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MADDOG69: Yep. I remember been at a drunken kitchen table during a conversation between 'horsey' people when it went down a few years back. What I gleamed from the strong opinions were that certain things are accepted in the sport. They weren't discussing the outrage that he had been banned... they were discussing the outrage over WHY he was picked to be banned when it seems that practice was widespread up and down the country in stables
That's right. Every kid that ever got a pony ready for a parish gymkhana has rubbed something on the pastern to get the horse to lift. What O'Connor was doing (allegedly, coz the B sample got mysteriously stolen...ehem) would have been more serious.
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MADDOG69: Yep. I remember been at a drunken kitchen table during a conversation between 'horsey' people when it went down a few years back. What I gleamed from the strong opinions were that certain things are accepted in the sport. They weren't discussing the outrage that he had been banned... they were discussing the outrage over WHY he was picked to be banned when it seems that practice was widespread up and down the country in stables.
Which brings me back to what skyblue43 was saying. The reason cycling has such a bad name ironically, is because so many have openly challenged these practices and spoken out. When will we see the lifting sports, the track and field sports, and even the Horse sports get a bad name by virtue of confronting their own little problems?
Oh and GAA. All them guys are doped up.
Which brings me back to what skyblue43 was saying. The reason cycling has such a bad name ironically, is because so many have openly challenged these practices and spoken out. When will we see the lifting sports, the track and field sports, and even the Horse sports get a bad name by virtue of confronting their own little problems?
Oh and GAA. All them guys are doped up.
Doping is a problem everywhere where money is involved. The problem with horses for me is, if a human sportler decides to dope himself up to the eyeballs, it's his problem, a horse doesn't have the choice. It's not a tool like a bike but a living creature. I ride horses myself but no competitions, purely as a hobby and I grew up going to the show jumping in Aachen (best show jumping and dressage competition in the world) and love watching it, but the top sport horses have a short shelf live...
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mr1983:
I'm just saying that it is hard to follow a sport where their is a strong possibility that all 20 of the previous champions of the main stage race have question marks hanging over them. At least in other sports there may be an illusion of fairness. Not in cycling.
I'm just saying that it is hard to follow a sport where their is a strong possibility that all 20 of the previous champions of the main stage race have question marks hanging over them. At least in other sports there may be an illusion of fairness. Not in cycling.
There are only illusions of fairness in other sports because of the innocence of the audience...
I don't think there were many questions about Indurain or Lemond by the way. I'll remind you of reports that all 5 athletes who had tests taken after Ben Johnsons famous disqualification are suggested to have failed but Johnson was made the sacrificial lamb to protect the image of his sport.
Of course there were concerns about Valverde, just as a lot of Britons are unhappy with Dwaine Chambers selection for the Olympics. Athletes and cyclists have the legal right to serve their ban and then return. It is unpalatable to many but as I said it is hardly unique in the world of sport...
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KNenagh: if a human sportler decides to dope himself up to the eyeballs, it's his problem...
Or hers even....
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skyblue43: There are only illusions of fairness in other sports because of the innocence of the audience..
I couldn't agree more but I would substitute the word gulliblility for innocence.
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Created: Jul 2012
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Tour de France or Tour de Fraud!(Vote Below)