Should religious beliefs overide government law? ( Archived) (35)

May 25, 2013 12:11 AM CSTShould religious beliefs overide government law?
lalasierra
lalasierralalasierralos angeles, California, USA147 Threads 67 Polls 935 Posts

Should religious beliefs overide government law?(Vote Below)

- (To Vote: select an option above, then press this button)
Yes
19
23%
No
61
73%
Not sure
4
5%
Total Votes
84
dunno
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May 25, 2013 1:08 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Leo_7
Leo_7Leo_7Baku, Azerbaijan87 Threads 16 Polls 2,514 Posts
no.religion should not get involved with state or gov.it just should remain in peoples heart.
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May 25, 2013 1:52 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
GUZMAN1
GUZMAN1GUZMAN1Barcelona, Catalonia Spain65 Threads 44 Polls 5,101 Posts
Religious rules are for believers only. Laws are for all.
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May 25, 2013 1:56 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Leo_7
Leo_7Leo_7Baku, Azerbaijan87 Threads 16 Polls 2,514 Posts
GUZMAN1: Religious rules are for believers only. Laws are for all.
well saidthumbs up beer
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May 25, 2013 1:59 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
lalasierra
lalasierralalasierralos angeles, California USA147 Threads 67 Polls 935 Posts
GUZMAN1: Religious rules are for believers only. Laws are for all.


I agree.

thumbs up
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May 25, 2013 2:03 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
arapaho
arapahoarapahobrisbane, Queensland Australia3 Threads 678 Posts
Hell no just look at other place's,
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May 25, 2013 2:05 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
GUZMAN1
GUZMAN1GUZMAN1Barcelona, Catalonia Spain65 Threads 44 Polls 5,101 Posts
lalasierra: I agree.

cheers But I'm afraid this does not answer your question completely.
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May 25, 2013 2:48 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
lalasierra
lalasierralalasierralos angeles, California USA147 Threads 67 Polls 935 Posts
GUZMAN1: But I'm afraid this does not answer your question completely.


I believe they should be kept separate. So my answer is "no".
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May 25, 2013 5:01 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
KNenagh
KNenaghKNenaghAachen, Kilkenny Ireland12 Threads 11,160 Posts
That's what happened for centuries in Europe and a devide between church and law was set in place.

We see what's going on in countries who have sharia law, not a place I would want to live or even travel.
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May 25, 2013 5:22 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Catfoot
CatfootCatfootAround here, Western Cape South Africa27 Threads 25 Polls 185 Posts
Well, let's look at what the bible says. I'm quoting the words of Jesus himself here:

Mark 12:17
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

And confirmed again

Luke 20:25
And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

So that makes it a clear 'No'
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May 25, 2013 9:34 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Rubicon76
Rubicon76Rubicon76Doha, Qatar308 Posts
If it is the will of the majority of constituents to introduce secular legislation then no.

Unfortunatley I am presently living under Sharia law.

I'm not a fan....
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May 25, 2013 9:55 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Obstinance_Works
Obstinance_WorksObstinance_WorksManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK3 Threads 1 Polls 3,514 Posts
Courtesy of the traitors we already have religious law here in the UK;

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May 25, 2013 9:59 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Divinechaos
DivinechaosDivinechaosmiddle of nowhere, Macedonia2 Threads 40 Posts
Hell no
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May 25, 2013 10:00 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
PJ1961
PJ1961PJ1961Somewhere..., Nicaragua19 Threads 2 Polls 905 Posts
Why this question? Why not

Why do nations' allow religion to impact law?

Never never never should religion have any influence over law. But, it does.
dunno
needs fixing.
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May 25, 2013 10:04 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Jillll
JillllJillllRancho Cucamonga, California USA3 Threads 1 Polls 1,390 Posts
It's interesting that so far only westerners have replied. I wonder how Muslims living under Sharia law feel about it.
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May 25, 2013 10:12 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
PJ1961
PJ1961PJ1961Somewhere..., Nicaragua19 Threads 2 Polls 905 Posts
Jillll: It's interesting that so far only westerners have replied. I wonder how Muslims living under Sharia law feel about it.
above, Rubicon said:

"If it is the will of the majority of constituents to introduce secular legislation then no.

Unfortunatley I am presently living under Sharia law.

I'm not a fan.... "

Don't know his religious ideas....
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May 25, 2013 10:14 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Obstinance_Works
Obstinance_WorksObstinance_WorksManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK3 Threads 1 Polls 3,514 Posts
PJ1961: Why this question? Why not

Why do nations' allow religion to impact law?

Never never never should religion have any influence over law. But, it does.

needs fixing.


Religious law is fine just so long as it reflects the will of the people and to say otherwise is as absolutist as any religious fanatic.

Undemocratic law is the enemy, whether this is Sharia law pressed onto Atheistic societies or EU law pushed onto us by the Stalinist and unelected commission, this makes no difference. These laws are the same enemy.
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May 25, 2013 10:15 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
mcajr79
mcajr79mcajr79Ilion, NY, New York USA4 Threads 1 Polls 64 Posts
GUZMAN1: Religious rules are for believers only. Laws are for all.
I agree so my answer to the question is, "HELL NO!"
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May 25, 2013 10:16 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
PJ1961
PJ1961PJ1961Somewhere..., Nicaragua19 Threads 2 Polls 905 Posts
How can you be sure it is "the will of the people" when fear, intimidation, and overt force are known to be used in controlling the will of the people?

It would be good to hear from those who live with Sharia or other religious laws.

Obstinance_Works: Religious law is fine just so long as it reflects the will of the people and to say otherwise is as absolutist as any religious fanatic.

Undemocratic law is the enemy, whether this is Sharia law pressed onto Atheistic societies or EU law pushed onto us by the Stalinist and unelected commission, this makes no difference. These laws are the same enemy.
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May 25, 2013 10:18 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
PJ1961
PJ1961PJ1961Somewhere..., Nicaragua19 Threads 2 Polls 905 Posts
also, many religiously driven laws are created by men .. something to consider

PJ1961: How can you be sure it is "the will of the people" when fear, intimidation, and overt force are known to be used in controlling the will of the people?

It would be good to hear from those who live with Sharia or other religious laws.
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May 25, 2013 10:20 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Jillll
JillllJillllRancho Cucamonga, California USA3 Threads 1 Polls 1,390 Posts
PJ1961: above, Rubicon said:

"If it is the will of the majority of constituents to introduce secular legislation then no.

Unfortunatley I am presently living under Sharia law.

I'm not a fan.... "

Don't know his religious ideas....



Yes, but I dont believe he is a native Qatari. Most of the workforce in Qatar is imported from other countries.
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May 25, 2013 10:23 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
PJ1961
PJ1961PJ1961Somewhere..., Nicaragua19 Threads 2 Polls 905 Posts
Jillll: Yes, but I dont believe he is a native Qatari. Most of the workforce in Qatar is imported from other countries.


agreed, and yet... he may have some ideas based on his experience with others there...peace
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May 25, 2013 10:23 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
mcajr79
mcajr79mcajr79Ilion, NY, New York USA4 Threads 1 Polls 64 Posts
Obstinance_Works: Religious law is fine just so long as it reflects the will of the people and to say otherwise is as absolutist as any religious fanatic.

Undemocratic law is the enemy, whether this is Sharia law pressed onto Atheistic societies or EU law pushed onto us by the Stalinist and unelected commission, this makes no difference. These laws are the same enemy.


That statement would only be true if 100% of the people agreed and that NEVER happens. I don't religious BS to enter laws. (which it does) If the majority were to overrule the minority, Democracy is just as bad as dictatorship. There are certain inalienable rights that should not be infringed upon. What if you were a Christian or whatever religion you are apart of and you lived in a country dominated by another religion? (in particular one you despise) Would you want them making religious laws that are in direct conflict with your rights and belief system???
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May 25, 2013 10:33 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Obstinance_Works
Obstinance_WorksObstinance_WorksManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK3 Threads 1 Polls 3,514 Posts
PJ1961: How can you be sure it is "the will of the people" when fear, intimidation, and overt force are known to be used in controlling the will of the people?

It would be good to hear from those who live with Sharia or other religious laws.


And how can you say that atheist society can not brainwash, intimidate, spread fear, incentivise the lie and disincentivise the truth?

You can't.

You have to take it face value or you venture down the route of minority rule, dictatorship and dystopia.

And think of where you are, CS isn't global or culturally international in any real sense as it's stereotypically Western, and so if you do get a few on here that live under sharia laws then they will be the ones that naturally feel alien to their surroundings... they will NOT be a typical representation of the country/culture which they come from.
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May 25, 2013 10:38 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
mcajr79
mcajr79mcajr79Ilion, NY, New York USA4 Threads 1 Polls 64 Posts
Secularism does not promote atheism or religious beliefs, it respects all rights to all. I may be an atheist but I would never take someone's right to believe. I would actually fight for someone's right to have religion even though religion disgusts me. However, I do have a problem when religion is used to harm others in any manner and that includes infringing on the rights of others.
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May 25, 2013 11:29 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Rubicon76
Rubicon76Rubicon76Doha, Qatar308 Posts
PJ1961: agreed, and yet... he may have some ideas based on his experience with others there...


You are, of course, correct ladies. I'm most certainly not local.
I am broadly Western in origin and hopefully my English language ability is, if nothing else, something of a giveaway.

Religiously, I waver between Athesism and Pantheism though to descibe myself as mercurial on this point is something of an understatement. I have ongoing deep debates with my boss and my technical manager (both are Muslim, though neither local) regarding the validity of Islam and religion in general.

It gets more complex. My boss's daughter is also staunchly Muslim and despite being London born and an honours student appears to be not bright enough not to actively descriminate against me based on my beliefs (or lack thereof). I know she likes me (she writes my love notes and tells me I'm hot!) yet at the same time convinces herself she needs to find a Muslim boy. Her father says that I need to convince the family that I'm a good Christian as Muslims are allowed to marry Christians because they are 'Of the book' and he wants to lend me an English version of the Quran. I'd like to read it out of a interest in theology but suspect I'm likely to become more atheistic rather than less after devouring the propogander.

The big problem is....she is super smart and super hot. A lethal combination, I think you'll agree. Shame she feels she needs a 1500 year old text to tell her how to live and worse, expects me to also.

Did I mention how much I love bacon?

With respect to the locals, I can tell you that Sharia law here is the law. There is nothing else and the locals would have it no other way. To them, the religion and the law are the same thing and being staunch followers of their faith they have a high rate of adherence and hence, a low crime rate.

Of course, this is not a democracy. It is a constitutional monarchy ruled absolutely by a herditary monarch (Emir) as an emirate. There seems to be little apetite for democracy here. While the native population have considerable income derived from the vast wealth that the oil and gas industry generates there will be few drivers for change. The locals don't need to work and the imported labour (whose number I count among) are subject to varying levels of discrimination and subjugation.

Still, it can't be all beer and skittles can it?
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May 25, 2013 11:58 AM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Catfoot
CatfootCatfootAround here, Western Cape South Africa27 Threads 25 Polls 185 Posts
Something else I must comment on too.

The oldest known code of laws is recorded in the bible. Most of modern law is based on the last six commandments dealing with man's behaviour towards each other.
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May 25, 2013 12:46 PM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Rubicon76
Rubicon76Rubicon76Doha, Qatar308 Posts
Catfoot: Something else I must comment on too.

The oldest known code of laws is recorded in the bible. Most of modern law is based on the last six commandments dealing with man's behaviour towards each other.


That would depend on how old you consider the commandments to be. The bible itself does not place them very many generations old and there are plenty of other social codes of conduct which were in force at the same time or earlier than this theoretically.

Social legislation was introduced by the anchient Egyptians, the Sumarians, the Babylonians, the Athenians, the Chinese, the Indians, the Romans...the list goes on.
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May 25, 2013 3:29 PM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
PJ1961
PJ1961PJ1961Somewhere..., Nicaragua19 Threads 2 Polls 905 Posts
Thanks for both of your posts above - it helps me to understand better the "shape" of religious law where you are. Skittles? Really?! Guess they just might be everywhere... cheers

Rubicon76: That would depend on how old you consider the commandments to be. The bible itself does not place them very many generations old and there are plenty of other social codes of conduct which were in force at the same time or earlier than this theoretically.

Social legislation was introduced by the anchient Egyptians, the Sumarians, the Babylonians, the Athenians, the Chinese, the Indians, the Romans...the list goes on.
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May 25, 2013 3:45 PM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
Catfoot: Something else I must comment on too.

The oldest known code of laws is recorded in the bible. Most of modern law is based on the last six commandments dealing with man's behaviour towards each other.
Ten Commandments hark back to the Code of Hammurabi!



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May 25, 2013 3:48 PM CST Should religious beliefs overide government law?
menu11
menu11menu11Galveston, Texas USA1,323 Posts
Hi wave lalasierra baby. laugh rolling on the floor laughing
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84 Votes
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35 Comments
by lalasierra (67 Polls)
Created: May 2013
Last Viewed: Apr 17
Last Commented: May 2013
Last Voted: Aug 2021

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