Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment? ( Archived) (20)

Aug 17, 2013 3:16 PM CSTAre Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
lalasierra
lalasierralalasierralos angeles, California USA178 Threads 82 Polls 1,293 Posts

Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?(Vote Below)

- (To Vote: select an option above, then press this button)
Yes
19
43%
No
25
57%
Total Votes
44
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Aug 17, 2013 4:10 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
CmdrMercutio
CmdrMercutioCmdrMercutioRickmansworth, UK, Hertfordshire, England UK2 Threads 208 Posts
No because leaving an item in a public place is not an inducement to commit an offence. Entrapment requires that the police give the would be criminal the idea , or encouragement, to commit an offence

An honest citizen does not see a bait car as something he or she has a need to break into, rob, or steal. An honest citizen would just see it as another parked car and walk on by...
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Aug 17, 2013 4:16 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
lalasierra
lalasierralalasierralos angeles, California USA178 Threads 82 Polls 1,293 Posts
CmdrMercutio: No because leaving an item in a public place is not an inducement to commit an offence. Entrapment requires that the police give the would be criminal the idea , or encouragement, to commit an offence

An honest citizen does not see a bait car as something he or she has a need to break into, rob, or steal. An honest citizen would just see it as another parked car and walk on by...


These cars are usually equiped with items such expensive stereos and/or items left on the seat such as bags, boxes, gifts, etc in order to entice the passersby.
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Aug 17, 2013 4:59 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
GUZMAN1
GUZMAN1GUZMAN1BARCELONA, Cataluna Spain83 Threads 57 Polls 7,076 Posts
Yes, it's a trap, but a very good idea.thumbs up

Like this:

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Aug 17, 2013 5:14 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
Yes and thank goodness.

Thank goodness there are also officials creating false profiles on the internet to entrap p*dophile and other creepsters.
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Aug 17, 2013 5:21 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
lalasierra
lalasierralalasierralos angeles, California USA178 Threads 82 Polls 1,293 Posts
Kaybee50: Yes and thank goodness.

Thank goodness there are also officials creating false profiles on the internet to entrap p*dophile and other creepsters.


I agree!thumbs up
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Aug 17, 2013 6:37 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
CmdrMercutio
CmdrMercutioCmdrMercutioRickmansworth, UK, Hertfordshire, England UK2 Threads 208 Posts
lalasierra: These cars are usually equiped with items such expensive stereos and/or items left on the seat such as bags, boxes, gifts, etc in order to entice the passersby.


1) what kind of person is tempted by other people's possessions left in plain view?

2) do you want that sort of person out and about, or in a prison cell?

I still dont see it as in any way entrapment. Entrapment is asking someone to do something illegal for you, then arresting them.
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Aug 17, 2013 7:33 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
Ccincy
CcincyCcincyCincinnati, Ohio USA87 Threads 27,090 Posts
Kaybee50: Yes and thank goodness.

Thank goodness there are also officials creating false profiles on the internet to entrap p*dophile and other creepsters.





I was about to post the very same thing.
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Aug 17, 2013 7:39 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
lov8b
lov8blov8bcolumbia, Missouri USA1 Threads 49 Posts
lalasierra: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_car
can we boobytrap evil people to catch them in a act??professor
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Aug 17, 2013 11:21 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
lalasierra
lalasierralalasierralos angeles, California USA178 Threads 82 Polls 1,293 Posts
Recently there was a story on the local news of a backpack being left on the sidewalk, in the middle of downtown near the public transportation stop. A person saw the backpack and picked it up, maybe to keep it or check for identification to return it to the owner. Little did that person know, but it was deliberately placed there. She was arrested for theft. Later, she took law enforcement to court for an entrapment case and won.

I may have done the same to return it to the owner, thinking I was doing a good deed. Now, I will think twice before touching something that doesn't belong to me for fear of a set-up like that one.
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Aug 18, 2013 12:08 AM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
If it doesn't belong to you...it's not yours. PERIOD. You have no right to enter any such vehicle, turn over the ignition, and go for a spin or otherwise a "test drive".
If there was a child left alone in the vehicle, or an animal on a hot day with insufficiently opened windows, well that would be another matter.
A backpack which may have been inadvertently left behind in an open public space, I might look for ID regarding the owner or look for a lost-and-found, or call the police if it looks suspicious...ie) it's ticking! help
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Aug 18, 2013 12:45 AM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
lalasierra
lalasierralalasierralos angeles, California USA178 Threads 82 Polls 1,293 Posts
lalasierra: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_car


I agree with you, Casual! sir bobby thumbs up
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Aug 18, 2013 12:16 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
GUZMAN1
GUZMAN1GUZMAN1BARCELONA, Cataluna Spain83 Threads 57 Polls 7,076 Posts
CmdrMercutio: 1) what kind of person is tempted by other people's possessions left in plain view?

2) do you want that sort of person out and about, or in a prison cell?

I still dont see it as in any way entrapment. Entrapment is asking someone to do something illegal for you, then arresting them.


thumbs up Yes, I think that the agents of the law should not lead to crime. But no one forces someone to steal these cars.
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Aug 18, 2013 12:22 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
Anyone remember Coalition forces in Iraq using bait tactics in Iraq? They'd leave like a box of bullets or something on the road and shoot anyone that went over to take them. That was wrong IMHO.
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Aug 18, 2013 2:06 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
rebel2
rebel2rebel2Alicante, Valenciana Spain9 Threads 8,585 Posts
No its not intrapment,its a method of catching criminals,which is the job of those in law enforcment.
Police officers go under cover in drugs operations,vice operations ect.
It is no differant to police recieving imformation that a bank is going to be attacked,and stacking it out in order to catch those involved.

criminals dont let the police know of there activities,the police have to entice them out of the hole.
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Aug 18, 2013 2:46 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
MADDOG69: Anyone remember Coalition forces in Iraq using bait tactics in Iraq? They'd leave like a box of bullets or something on the road and shoot anyone that went over to take them. That was wrong IMHO.


Nah, it was more than that. Bullets? No one cared about bullets. We used autos with open trunks full of RPGs, grenades (duds often) and AKs. We usually didn't shoot people that went over and just looked. The ones that got executed were the ones who tried to take the weapons, sometimes going away and coming back with a truck and friends to get the 'new stash' bang bang bang.


One US Agency I worked for in the 70s, their security folk would salt a fire stairs with a 100 dollar bill on good quality hidden camera. If someone walked by and picked it up and did not go to the security lost and found office to turn it in, he was fired by the end of the day as being proven as being pre-disposed to violate regulations and also steal. What was most common was the bill being turned in to the lost and found 20 minutes later. Maybe once every 3 months a dishonest person was weeded out. Funny sometimes once word spread. You would see cleaning ladies on the stairs carefully sweeping all around the money and people going out of their way to step over the green mine in front of them. There was talk of switching to a box of cookies, but that was considered too much temptation.

The NY Daily News did something similar with a wallet filled with money in NYC back in the 80s. At Federal Plaza every single Federal employee that found the wallet turned it in. At City Hall a few blocks away only half the City Hall workers filmed picking up the money turned it in. Some turned in an empty wallet and until confronted with photos of them pulling the money out denied there had ever been any money in it. Down near the stock exchange only 3 of about 30 Wall Street workers turned in the wallet. What does this suggest to you about Wall Street folk?
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Aug 18, 2013 2:57 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
Ken_19: Nah, it was more than that. Bullets? No one cared about bullets.


"After visiting the sniper unit in Iraq, members of the Asymmetrical Warfare Group gave soldiers ammunition boxes containing so-called “drop items” like bullets, plastic explosives and bomb detonation cords to use to pinpoint Iraqis involved in insurgent activity, according to Capt. Matthew P. Didier, a sniper platoon leader who gave sworn testimony in the accused soldiers’ court hearings. "



There was bullets alright.

IN a stressed society like Post invasion Iraq, normal people would take whatever and try sell it for food and other things on the black market. Baiting does not work in this condition, and is unethical.
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Aug 18, 2013 3:16 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
MADDOG69: "After visiting the sniper unit in Iraq, members of the Asymmetrical Warfare Group gave soldiers ammunition boxes containing so-called “drop items” like bullets, plastic explosives and bomb detonation cords to use to pinpoint Iraqis involved in insurgent activity, according to Capt. Matthew P. Didier, a sniper platoon leader who gave sworn testimony in the accused soldiers’ court hearings. "



There was bullets alright.

IN a stressed society like Post invasion Iraq, normal people would take whatever and try sell it for food and other things on the black market. Baiting does not work in this condition, and is unethical.


There was also plastic explosives and detonators. Likewise those who sell explosives to strangers need to be treated the same as those who use the explosives to kill. So in that vein, baiting did work. Yeah, I know, it is a slippery slope. What about drugs like Opium and cocaine? Should we treat the farmer who grows them the same as the guy who sells them? In WW2 lots of 'innocents' died working in factories that made innocuous things like ball bearings or engine parts. Is there a moral high ground difference between bombing a hausfrau working in a ball bearing factory in WW2, or a sniper taking out someone moving plastic explosives to his car, or salting butterfly bombs over poppy fields to disrupt the harvest? As Gen Sherman said, War is Hell.

That being said, if my memory is correct, that trial you cite is not what more or less tapered off the program. Rather instead it was complaints about some guy who was concerned children were in the area and he was only trying to secure the items from the children until someone could be notified when the top of his head suddenly came off. Until then there had pretty much been a White House mindset that only an insurgent would move or try to carry the items away.
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Aug 18, 2013 5:19 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
GUZMAN1
GUZMAN1GUZMAN1BARCELONA, Cataluna Spain83 Threads 57 Polls 7,076 Posts
Warfare has no rules, but police strategies should be within the limits of law.
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Aug 18, 2013 5:46 PM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
rebel2
rebel2rebel2Alicante, Valenciana Spain9 Threads 8,585 Posts
GUZMAN1: Warfare has no rules, but police strategies should be within the limits of law.
Catching criminals is within the limits of the law.cheers
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Oct 19, 2013 5:08 AM CST Are Bait Cars A Form of Entrapment?
GUZMAN1
GUZMAN1GUZMAN1BARCELONA, Cataluna Spain83 Threads 57 Polls 7,076 Posts
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