does everything change ? (65)

I guess if we address the question originally asked by the OP, in a metaphysical way, the truth doesn't change.

The truth is always the truth.

things change, cause n effect is involved. (i accept that bit)
(but me thinks something else is missing or exists too)

because,,many things dont change.
how can anyone or anything change an event of the past. ???
it happened thats it..no changing that.
how can anything change that ww2 happened.

even the event had a cause and effect to them...and new events transpired.

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also re existence.

which came first , cause ..condition ... effect.

where come from. ?

maybe out of self ...before existed.

The observer always has their own version of the observed, but no matter how something is perceived the truth always remains the truth.

golly goshes,

how did your profile just show deleted / and then back again,
without you changing anything.

stuff sure does change outside our control.

thats true too.

i would think so too.

if one flips a coin to see which side is facing up on landing.
even if the observer thinks it tails (due to poor vision) then its true that how they see it.

yet, if heads are up , then thats the truth regards which side is facing up.

cant change the truth of things.

and there are many.

truth is not subject to decay.

indeed the effect is as ,and cant be changed.
yet, cause ..component ..effect ..is involved in another way. ..as stuff unfurls .

thing is.....situations , circumstances , events , experiences , they are not just component . material , things as such.,.....even though there is material , component stuff involved in a situation , event .

this aspect of things,....me thinks doesnt change.

you cant change something that happened in past ,.. ever.

when one thinks , well if divide it down , like every millisecond and less , to nearest zero.......then per micro second theres effects.

so , in a way things dont change at all. ..as in effects.
yet, in another way ..they do ..as in new effects from old .
it like 2 things are going on.

1. theres change in a context.
2. theres no change in another context.

and its all tied in with this cause n effect business , yet theres components and non components involved , components changeable but many situations, events . not.

its all kinda parceled up together ...physical stuff and metaphysical stuff.
some things changeable , and some things not.


i might unravel it after another few beers.

its not just as simple that there is cause ..component..effect.....and everything changes.
there is that in a context. yet , theres far more going on . ...

and past events , truth, lies , etc ......are things that never can be changed.

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its not a religious thread ....but i will say....in my case......i actually believe that events will be played over in next life...everything we do here on earth, and that of others. not just deed but thought re everything and anything.
it will be an amazing revelation of truth and of ourselvs ....n others.
mentally/emotionally/consciously ./ we will react to it...
in addition to that experience ......it will be part of our education as spiritual beings.
we will improve for better.

its kinda like,
we are now allowed record and watch stuff from lives of peopled passed.
we use machines , tapes , chips, etc...to store the stuff.
in next world we will use different tools of mind.
the basic idea is being shown to us now.
as allowed invent n discover stuff etc.
a soft introduction and education from above.
i even thought that before i was ever aware of or used a recorder. to view past events.
from a very young age.
it just seemed obvious.
all will be revealed.
somehow.

having said that...i realise folk dont believe in such stuff.

yet , it kinda answers questions for me.

...........................................

1 .i dont think you can have consciousness with thought ,

2 .i dont think you can have thought without consciousness.

so, i wouldnt agree with that saying.

thats in the context of consciousness = awareness..thought

..........................................

i think we are spiritual beings in a body ....experience consciousness n thought.
in our makeup.

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now..in another context people may refer to consciousness n thought ,,,to refer to something else. they might say a person is not conscious or thinking, or aware of their sorroundings etc.............which is another thing. in that sense .

its the case that they are not awake , n so aware of sourroundings,
in that sense....its a case of i know what you mean.

however, outside (of what they mean) of that, i believe the person is aware (conscious of something ...so is experiencing thought.

we may never know what they experienced or thought of , and they may never recall what it was when they wake up. ( some have ) they were even aware of everything that happened....looking down watching the docs etc ..working on them.

now... thing is ....even when people are what we might call conscious and thinking, nevertheless there is numerous stuff that they are not thinking about at all.. they are only thinking whatever is on their mind at that time.

so, it doesnt mean that if person what we call unconscious , in coma after accident , has nothing on their mind.

i think its the case , they have something else on their mind.

they say the truth sets you free......................

what i meant to say was,

1 .i dont think you can have consciousness without thought.
2. i dont think you can have thought without consciousness.

so would not agree with above idea .

.....the rest ok .

we are spiritual beings in a physical body.
experiencing consciousness n thought as result of our makeup.

Consciousness without thought is certainly attainable with practice, it's something I experience most days.. In fact it happens momentarily to many, probably without us realising it.
At times of sheer exhilaration we experience a moment of no thought, but with experience through regular meditation, longer periods of 'stillness' can be achieved.

To the detriment of the concept of diversity?

i never experienced that.

re - idea ....just conscious without thought.
then how would it return to thought if it was not there.

conscious without thought , couldnt make decision return.
i done see how could be.

if stillness is there then its perceived in thought.
later one can say stillness was there.
via thought recollection later.

to me it like thought is there if even not aware of it ,
it then bring one back in more awareness of it again.

its kinda like a tree n a dense fog.
when the fog lighten , u see it again
but it never was gone.

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sometimes i go there , but the fact im going there , is known to my thought.(prior)
i say i will meditate now.
hence it go into the fog as i request it.
as if not there.
then as it has placed itself as less conceived in my consciousness
when time comes around thought revels itself more clearly again.
its because my thoughts know its for period of time.n its registered. (generally)
also, it still there and would respond to my body ...if got cold, in danger etc.
just come around,

i open my eyes .

but i know it was never gone.

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i actually do other stuff with thoughts ....observing each other.
i often just sit back and its like watching thoughts go by..regardless their nature.
i dont ans , question, or do anything with them , other than see whats popping up, and rolling along.

it kinda like ,....i would be one thought ,,,watching the others ,,and just let them flow along like a stream.

thought is active. (just in different ways) to me.

i experience both , not one without the other.

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of course when sleeping ....unconscious.....the thought is still happening.
some times i wake up not aware of what thoughts were thinking while sleeping.
most times i wake up and recall a great deal , about them.
dreams n stuff.

"If we could see the miracle of a single flower clearly, our whole life would change."

Buddha

Try to look at a flower without labelling it, or any part of it. Just experience it's presence without any judgement. Can you do that?

another thread may be the cure for the aching head.

either that or the guillotine.

i jest.

re buddha quote.

i often do that with stuff , sitting in the garden.