Evolution Vs Creation (135)
goldiloxgirl: To follow on from the premise outlined earlier regarding being at peace with your belief, the reason for that serenity is simple. If I want to know the truth regarding anything then I first must be willing to accept the implications of knowing that truth. If I am willing to do so, then the moral impediment to knowing it is gone and I have no inner conflict. It is that lack of inner conflict that gives rise to being peaceful in what I believe...
To deny God I would say "If there is a God then why do babies die?" or "if God is so loving then why are there wars?" or "why are religious people such hypocrites?" or many other similarly veined objections. The answer to those questions goes right back to the implications of not accepting God and the incumbent responsibility to Him. It is in the rejection of God's claim on our lives that decay of His order takes place.
No, this is not a question of evidence (which is essentially what science is about) but is a question of acceptance of moral implications of that evidence.
To deny God I would say "If there is a God then why do babies die?" or "if God is so loving then why are there wars?" or "why are religious people such hypocrites?" or many other similarly veined objections. The answer to those questions goes right back to the implications of not accepting God and the incumbent responsibility to Him. It is in the rejection of God's claim on our lives that decay of His order takes place.
No, this is not a question of evidence (which is essentially what science is about) but is a question of acceptance of moral implications of that evidence.
Have you guys been reading what this woman has to say? I think it's sometimes easy to wisk over a topic that we know little about. Some people have said that they believe religeon is thier own personal decision- and I couldnt agree more. In fact, most Christians would agree to that a well. However- for those of you who do not believe in God, or any particular God, I just want to take a minute and look at it in a new way. Let's say I went to a restraunt, and it was great.... the food, the service, the atmosphere- it was all terrific!!! Now, the next day I'm talking with friends, and I will probably want to encourage them to go to this restraunt---- I gained an enormous amount of joy from it, and I would like them to share in that joy as well. I have gained knowledge, and am looking to share it. Well, enormously simplified, this is how many people feel about thier reliegeon. If I truly believe in God, wouldn't I want to share that with people? To deny that people should talk about thier religeon, or even encourage others to consider it, is not realistic at all. Most of us wish to share ourselves (isn't that what these polls and forums are all about). Reliegeon is certainly a part of that.
Now, I have looked at many religeons, and I also believe we should all respect each other. Pay attention though- I have searched out other religeons and have firmly planted myself back in line with Christianity. Although I believe in understanding and respecting other people's beliefs, I do also think we need to be in search of our own belief- one that we can share peacefully and joyfully with the people in our lives. Searching requires action. You can't search for something wthout putting effort into it. Searching for God is an enormous resposibility, since belief in God points us down a certain path if we are to sincerely desire to lead a life that follows his example. So I guess simply stated- Go search. Don't just take my word for it- look into your own heart, and history, and faith, and find something that you can really believe in. Take an active role in your own belief system. Then, you should peacefully share that knowledge with others, enouraging them in thier search as well.
Quotes from the bible are in every day life and people quote things and dont relize they are from the bible. Common questions may be in a crossword puzzle, in a game show quiz etc. Why do people who dont believe celebrate Easter and christmas? They again are in it up to their neck, without relizing.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
melty1: Quotes from the bible are in every day life and people quote things and dont relize they are from the bible. Common questions may be in a crossword puzzle, in a game show quiz etc. Why do people who dont believe celebrate Easter and christmas? They again are in it up to their neck, without relizing.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Any excuse for a holiday.
melty1: Quotes from the bible are in every day life and people quote things and dont relize they are from the bible. Common questions may be in a crossword puzzle, in a game show quiz etc. Why do people who dont believe celebrate Easter and christmas? They again are in it up to their neck, without relizing.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Because our society has allowed christianity to take over and it is scarey to think that it is so much a part of our daily lives with little thought to it. But they do now have control because as Bourbon stated, it is a great excuse for a holiday and who is going to argue with that. Nobody is going to be in the business of undoing centuries old traditions that will remove days off work that are already being enjoyed. We have been brought up with it, so we don't really think twice about it and if you remove the religion from the equation, it is a great excuse to reward our families for being the people that they are and appreciating them whether you observe the meaning or not.
Man, i swore i would not get caught up in religion and politics in here!! 
Ralf74: Because our society has allowed christianity to take over and it is scarey to think that it is so much a part of our daily lives with little thought to it. But they do now have control because as Bourbon stated, it is a great excuse for a holiday and who is going to argue with that. Nobody is going to be in the business of undoing centuries old traditions that will remove days off work that are already being enjoyed. We have been brought up with it, so we don't really think twice about it and if you remove the religion from the equation, it is a great excuse to reward our families for being the people that they are and appreciating them whether you observe the meaning or not.
Man, i swore i would not get caught up in religion and politics in here!!
Man, i swore i would not get caught up in religion and politics in here!!
oh!
getting into the spirit of things are we? 
Wow, what a wonderful debate with many well put arguments. Thank you everyone who has taken their time to post on it. I enjoyed reading many of them.
It's interesting that this topic and many like it polerize people so much. Also interesting is the point that the topic has shifted to a debate of religon rather than a statement, on a simple question, of one's opinion.
Seems this point some people have dificulty not being ok with others not agreeing with them. Be great to know exctly why that is. Maybe I'll hazard a guess later on in this rambling answer.
Anyway as to life? Well I personably couldn't vote as neither answer fully fit my own thoughts. I believe that a supreme being of some description created the universe... perhaps just the phsycal laws it obeys and the matter; perhaps life too. I do think that life has changed over time to more suit it's survival needs. I don't think that those incremental changes can be - with any serious mathmatical/satistacal inquiry - attributed to chance. I believe that each generation something makes small alterations based (possibly) on what killed the organisim or what assisted it to survive, procrerate etc. What that is or if it's a single being or many I don't know. But, to me, the likely hood of say; a bug changeing by chance mutation to look exactly like and behave exactly like a thorn or a certain flower not to mention mutating to form one functioning eye not to mention that each amasing mutation always seems to have been formed as a two or two halves - not just one eye but two, not just one limb - two. Two mirror halves to most creatures, each feature a small mutation that happens to be mirrored on the other half of the body? Ok I know we get the occasional mutaion in life - but of those you've seen how many we're symetrical? The kid with a toe growning out of his arm does he have another on the otherside?
For that matter, if these were all mutaions - where are the ocasional unessersary ones? I mean ok maybe it is possible to have an offspring who is benificially mutated and symetricaly so. But if each small change was a mutation somewhere along the way there would have been an unessasary change ... a hon here or stump there or ....something, but - to me it seems once a species no longer needs a feature it quickly starts to loose it. So that kinda hints to me at an ongoing thing that has some guidence. I don't care weather or not you agree or disagree and I love that there is so many different opinions. I could quite easily be wrong. It's just what I "think" may be right or close to right.
Anyway, religion - I don't belong to a mainstream religion - I'm not Christian or Muslim, hindu or buhdist. But I do belong to a religion. I firmly believe in the right to religion - to have or not have a religion and not just have and practice that religion or belief - what ever it may be - without so much as the slightest attack or frown apon them. So to you of whatever religion or none that you belong...I'm very very glad you have your own opinions and beliefs and that you are hapy in them.
ooops out of room..continued.....
It's interesting that this topic and many like it polerize people so much. Also interesting is the point that the topic has shifted to a debate of religon rather than a statement, on a simple question, of one's opinion.
Seems this point some people have dificulty not being ok with others not agreeing with them. Be great to know exctly why that is. Maybe I'll hazard a guess later on in this rambling answer.
Anyway as to life? Well I personably couldn't vote as neither answer fully fit my own thoughts. I believe that a supreme being of some description created the universe... perhaps just the phsycal laws it obeys and the matter; perhaps life too. I do think that life has changed over time to more suit it's survival needs. I don't think that those incremental changes can be - with any serious mathmatical/satistacal inquiry - attributed to chance. I believe that each generation something makes small alterations based (possibly) on what killed the organisim or what assisted it to survive, procrerate etc. What that is or if it's a single being or many I don't know. But, to me, the likely hood of say; a bug changeing by chance mutation to look exactly like and behave exactly like a thorn or a certain flower not to mention mutating to form one functioning eye not to mention that each amasing mutation always seems to have been formed as a two or two halves - not just one eye but two, not just one limb - two. Two mirror halves to most creatures, each feature a small mutation that happens to be mirrored on the other half of the body? Ok I know we get the occasional mutaion in life - but of those you've seen how many we're symetrical? The kid with a toe growning out of his arm does he have another on the otherside?
For that matter, if these were all mutaions - where are the ocasional unessersary ones? I mean ok maybe it is possible to have an offspring who is benificially mutated and symetricaly so. But if each small change was a mutation somewhere along the way there would have been an unessasary change ... a hon here or stump there or ....something, but - to me it seems once a species no longer needs a feature it quickly starts to loose it. So that kinda hints to me at an ongoing thing that has some guidence. I don't care weather or not you agree or disagree and I love that there is so many different opinions. I could quite easily be wrong. It's just what I "think" may be right or close to right.
Anyway, religion - I don't belong to a mainstream religion - I'm not Christian or Muslim, hindu or buhdist. But I do belong to a religion. I firmly believe in the right to religion - to have or not have a religion and not just have and practice that religion or belief - what ever it may be - without so much as the slightest attack or frown apon them. So to you of whatever religion or none that you belong...I'm very very glad you have your own opinions and beliefs and that you are hapy in them.
ooops out of room..continued.....
Ralf74: How do you know that? It is just your belief not a fact.
If heaven and hell actually existed do you really think that anyone would prefer the latter considering how they are portrayed regardless of their views on god? I am not so sure that anyone would prefer to go to hell out of spite for their beliefs, that is just ridiculous.
again, where is the evidence to make me so squeamish, all I have is the things that I have been brainwashed into thinking as a child before I could think for myself.
It is called keeping an open mind because we aren't arrogant enough to know that we have all the answers.
If heaven and hell actually existed do you really think that anyone would prefer the latter considering how they are portrayed regardless of their views on god? I am not so sure that anyone would prefer to go to hell out of spite for their beliefs, that is just ridiculous.
again, where is the evidence to make me so squeamish, all I have is the things that I have been brainwashed into thinking as a child before I could think for myself.
It is called keeping an open mind because we aren't arrogant enough to know that we have all the answers.
Well, to the "Keeping an open mind because we aren't arrogant enough to know that we have all the answers", I will simply say this- I'm really not arrogant. It's better when you are discussing a topic from insulting people- and saying that people who are confident in thier beliefs is arrogant, isn't really necessarily true. There is a sincere difference between arrogance and confidence, and I hope you can open your mind to that, so you don't view people who have beliefs in that way.
I would encourage you to look into it more yourself- for yourself. It woud be nice if one day you could have a peaceful confidence and contentment in your own beliefs...it's a great feeling....Best wishes on your journey--
well said Hello you 
Ide like to add that when people have real faith in their higer power they just know ...
there needs not be proof as the truth is placed inside you, You all know me im out there im not a religious kook Im not a prude or conservative but i have my faith i dont need proof i dont need debates i dont need aproval or discussion as to how or why I just know & because I know I am continually blessed everyday of my life .
Kizzy
Ide like to add that when people have real faith in their higer power they just know ...
there needs not be proof as the truth is placed inside you, You all know me im out there im not a religious kook Im not a prude or conservative but i have my faith i dont need proof i dont need debates i dont need aproval or discussion as to how or why I just know & because I know I am continually blessed everyday of my life .
Kizzy
truladee: Well, to the "Keeping an open mind because we aren't arrogant enough to know that we have all the answers", I will simply say this- I'm really not arrogant. It's better when you are discussing a topic from insulting people- and saying that people who are confident in thier beliefs is arrogant, isn't really necessarily true. There is a sincere difference between arrogance and confidence, and I hope you can open your mind to that, so you don't view people who have beliefs in that way.
I would encourage you to look into it more yourself- for yourself. It woud be nice if one day you could have a peaceful confidence and contentment in your own beliefs...it's a great feeling....Best wishes on your journey--
I would encourage you to look into it more yourself- for yourself. It woud be nice if one day you could have a peaceful confidence and contentment in your own beliefs...it's a great feeling....Best wishes on your journey--
The arrogance comment was a generalisation not aimed at you personally, if I was trying to insult you, you would really know it!!
I am not against you or your beliefs, in fact i am glad for you that you have them. What I disapprove of is the people preaching to me and trying to convert me to their cults and not respecting my beliefs. It is like the saying....The only difference between tattooed people and people with out them is that tatooed people don't care if you don't have them. I am quite peaceful and content with my way of thinking and if I ever change my mind, that is my right to do so. I am currently a non-believer but my mind is open to all possibilities. I am not willing to rule anything out. Unfortunately, my mind is also corrupted by all the christianity that i have been influenced by throughout my life so far, doesn't really give the other religions a fair go does it? 
kizzy27: well said Hello you Ide like to add that when people have real faith in their higer power they just know ...
there needs not be proof as the truth is placed inside you, You all know me im out there im not a religious kook Im not a prude or conservative but i have my faith i dont need proof i dont need debates i dont need aproval or discussion as to how or why I just know & because I know I am continually blessed everyday of my life .
Kizzy
there needs not be proof as the truth is placed inside you, You all know me im out there im not a religious kook Im not a prude or conservative but i have my faith i dont need proof i dont need debates i dont need aproval or discussion as to how or why I just know & because I know I am continually blessed everyday of my life .
Kizzy
Precisely Kizz, good for you. You have never sprouted your beliefs in an attempt to convert others and i am glad that your faith works for you. 
Personally I'd like to see a religous organisation that focuses on people respecting, appreciating and having faith in other people. As opposed to doing right by people to please god and have a life in the here after, how about doing right by people simply because we are people and knowing that we all feel pain, have fears and wants and needs, we should all just live and let live. In this philosophy it makes no difference if there is a god or not. The believers can continue to believe, the atheists can pat them on the head and the agnostics can sit on the fence all at the same BBQ every Sunday.
Damianowen: Personally I'd like to see a religous organisation that focuses on people respecting, appreciating and having faith in other people. As opposed to doing right by people to please god and have a life in the here after, how about doing right by people simply because we are people and knowing that we all feel pain, have fears and wants and needs, we should all just live and let live. In this philosophy it makes no difference if there is a god or not. The believers can continue to believe, the atheists can pat them on the head and the agnostics can sit on the fence all at the same BBQ every Sunday.
Sounds like a plan!!
I love entertaining, first BBQ at my place!! 
Ralf74: Sounds like a plan!! I love entertaining, first BBQ at my place!!
Your such a party animal Ralf
I love itRalf74: I think I like your God!!
See converted
Mmm I may be onto something here ....
Ralf74: Because our society has allowed christianity to take over and it is scarey to think that it is so much a part of our daily lives with little thought to it. But they do now have control because as Bourbon stated, it is a great excuse for a holiday and who is going to argue with that. Nobody is going to be in the business of undoing centuries old traditions that will remove days off work that are already being enjoyed. We have been brought up with it, so we don't really think twice about it and if you remove the religion from the equation, it is a great excuse to reward our families for being the people that they are and appreciating them whether you observe the meaning or not.
Man, i swore i would not get caught up in religion and politics in here!!
Man, i swore i would not get caught up in religion and politics in here!!
I agree with most of what Ralf74 has said. At age 17 i was recruited by an All Black for service in the NZ army, i think in hindsight, because i had put others up on a pedestal. Whom i had foolishly trusted and lead to believe or perceived this was correct or was right etc.
I had attended Sunday school, bible class and trusted some i now know were deeply deluded, and never to be trusted again.
After many problems directly related to 13 months in Vietnam, i traveled around the world x 3.
During that time I met Tibetans in northern India and Nepal and later herein Australia. I listened to what they had to say, and over the past twenty years have been involved in some political debates.
In 1989 at Adelaide Dalai Lama lit a flame that he gave to an Anglican Bishop who handed the flame to me to explain interdependent arising. So its fair to say i do hold views others might find confronting. John Howard did, so did George Bush, few others to.
WHAT IF: we are the creator of our tomorrows, if hell is experienced by beings in the here and now, and not just sometime after death.
WHAT If, each of use is responsible for our own happiness.
Ask yourself who makes most of the wars and who in your life can you really trust.
Without hot we could not possibly perceive cold, in the same light this life's past experience are also most useful.
We all want happiness...so useful to explore what is useful knowledge and what should be discarded. An open mind carefully watched.
Surely we are what we think and engage in, therefore surely its useful that we do take time to find an acceptable level of understanding while we have an opportunity to do so.
Hello_you: Wow, what a wonderful debate with many well put arguments. Thank you everyone who has taken their time to post on it. I enjoyed reading many of them.
It's interesting that this topic and many like it polerize people so much. Also interesting is the point that the topic has shifted to a debate of religon rather than a statement, on a simple question, of one's opinion.
Seems this point some people have dificulty not being ok with others not agreeing with them. Be great to know exctly why that is. Maybe I'll hazard a guess later on in this rambling answer.
Anyway as to life? Well I personably couldn't vote as neither answer fully fit my own thoughts. I believe that a supreme being of some description created the universe... perhaps just the phsycal laws it obeys and the matter; perhaps life too. I do think that life has changed over time to more suit it's survival needs. I don't think that those incremental changes can be - with any serious mathmatical/satistacal inquiry - attributed to chance. I believe that each generation something makes small alterations based (possibly) on what killed the organisim or what assisted it to survive, procrerate etc. What that is or if it's a single being or many I don't know. But, to me, the likely hood of say; a bug changeing by chance mutation to look exactly like and behave exactly like a thorn or a certain flower not to mention mutating to form one functioning eye not to mention that each amasing mutation always seems to have been formed as a two or two halves - not just one eye but two, not just one limb - two. Two mirror halves to most creatures, each feature a small mutation that happens to be mirrored on the other half of the body? Ok I know we get the occasional mutaion in life - but of those you've seen how many we're symetrical? The kid with a toe growning out of his arm does he have another on the otherside?
For that matter, if these were all mutaions - where are the ocasional unessersary ones? I mean ok maybe it is possible to have an offspring who is benificially mutated and symetricaly so. But if each small change was a mutation somewhere along the way there would have been an unessasary change ... a hon here or stump there or ....something, but - to me it seems once a species no longer needs a feature it quickly starts to loose it. So that kinda hints to me at an ongoing thing that has some guidence. I don't care weather or not you agree or disagree and I love that there is so many different opinions. I could quite easily be wrong. It's just what I "think" may be right or close to right.
Anyway, religion - I don't belong to a mainstream religion - I'm not Christian or Muslim, hindu or buhdist. But I do belong to a religion. I firmly believe in the right to religion - to have or not have a religion and not just have and practice that religion or belief - what ever it may be - without so much as the slightest attack or frown apon them. So to you of whatever religion or none that you belong...I'm very very glad you have your own opinions and beliefs and that you are hapy in them.the
ooops out of room..continued.....
It's interesting that this topic and many like it polerize people so much. Also interesting is the point that the topic has shifted to a debate of religon rather than a statement, on a simple question, of one's opinion.
Seems this point some people have dificulty not being ok with others not agreeing with them. Be great to know exctly why that is. Maybe I'll hazard a guess later on in this rambling answer.
Anyway as to life? Well I personably couldn't vote as neither answer fully fit my own thoughts. I believe that a supreme being of some description created the universe... perhaps just the phsycal laws it obeys and the matter; perhaps life too. I do think that life has changed over time to more suit it's survival needs. I don't think that those incremental changes can be - with any serious mathmatical/satistacal inquiry - attributed to chance. I believe that each generation something makes small alterations based (possibly) on what killed the organisim or what assisted it to survive, procrerate etc. What that is or if it's a single being or many I don't know. But, to me, the likely hood of say; a bug changeing by chance mutation to look exactly like and behave exactly like a thorn or a certain flower not to mention mutating to form one functioning eye not to mention that each amasing mutation always seems to have been formed as a two or two halves - not just one eye but two, not just one limb - two. Two mirror halves to most creatures, each feature a small mutation that happens to be mirrored on the other half of the body? Ok I know we get the occasional mutaion in life - but of those you've seen how many we're symetrical? The kid with a toe growning out of his arm does he have another on the otherside?
For that matter, if these were all mutaions - where are the ocasional unessersary ones? I mean ok maybe it is possible to have an offspring who is benificially mutated and symetricaly so. But if each small change was a mutation somewhere along the way there would have been an unessasary change ... a hon here or stump there or ....something, but - to me it seems once a species no longer needs a feature it quickly starts to loose it. So that kinda hints to me at an ongoing thing that has some guidence. I don't care weather or not you agree or disagree and I love that there is so many different opinions. I could quite easily be wrong. It's just what I "think" may be right or close to right.
Anyway, religion - I don't belong to a mainstream religion - I'm not Christian or Muslim, hindu or buhdist. But I do belong to a religion. I firmly believe in the right to religion - to have or not have a religion and not just have and practice that religion or belief - what ever it may be - without so much as the slightest attack or frown apon them. So to you of whatever religion or none that you belong...I'm very very glad you have your own opinions and beliefs and that you are hapy in them.the
ooops out of room..continued.....
Glad you took the time ! The question for biologists is "where does the genetic variation come from" and they are begining to solve that mystery at present. Bilateral symetry is not to complicated and you could read about its evolution in most text books as you could with the mutations you mentioned. Interesting what you say about physical laws and matter being created by a supreme being, he probably did it inadvertently and never has had or will have control over what goes on (if that's what happened)
Ralf74: Sounds like a plan!! I love entertaining, first BBQ at my place!!
OK !!!
Who else is comming?Damianowen: OK !!! Who else is comming?
I'll come if it's not in winterredozichick: I'll come if it's not in winter
We'll pitch in and get you a nice warm jacket because that's the kind of people we are !
wayne1791971: A new religion and with the tax free benefit you will be laughing just need to convert a lot more
we could start an Evangilist Tv show !!!!
but it would have to be on sbs after midnight
Kizzys all you can ogle revival meeting ....
Ralf74: The arrogance comment was a generalisation not aimed at you personally, if I was trying to insult you, you would really know it!! I am not against you or your beliefs, in fact i am glad for you that you have them. What I disapprove of is the people preaching to me and trying to convert me to their cults and not respecting my beliefs. It is like the saying....The only difference between tattooed people and people with out them is that tatooed people don't care if you don't have them. I am quite peaceful and content with my way of thinking and if I ever change my mind, that is my right to do so. I am currently a non-believer but my mind is open to all possibilities. I am not willing to rule anything out. Unfortunately, my mind is also corrupted by all the christianity that i have been influenced by throughout my life so far, doesn't really give the other religions a fair go does it?
Oh I really didn't take it personally per se (though youre so sweet to say it wasn't against me in particular)--- I just really wanted to express to you that there are many Christians (or people of any given religeon) who are confident in thier beliefs- but not arrogant. I think that if people really believe in something it's natural for them to share that, and try to encourage others to take a look at it too.... However, it's not cool to harass people with religeous beliefs, and I'm thinking that maybe people had tried to shove it down your throat. I feel bad when people do that, because I know how much of a turn off that is. The more pushy they get, the less you would want to listen. I tend to personally take a really respectful and laid back attitude toward it.... I have beliefs, and I have certain things I continue to question and explore, and I even feel good about that. I am happy to share my beliefs with others, and feel like it's the right thing to do so- however- gently.
I agree that you have the right to make up your own mind regarding God. You have to have your own values and beliefs. I guess my advice would just be to think about it, especially in the scheme of this amazing world we live in----even if you just take the time to really think through the whole begining of time thing, and the technicalities of this earth- and wonder if there is God- who could have created it. Forget about what others have told you to believe- and decide. Of course at the end of the day, only YOU can make up your mind about that for yourself....
OK, so the poll is even. Looks like there will be a few more threads and forum debates on this matter yet! (Was there ever a doubt?) Thanks to everyone that participated 
I had recieved this via email and although it is against my own way of thinking, i will post it for the benefit of those with faith...........
An Atheist Professor of Philosophy was speaking to his Class on the Problem Science has
With GOD , the ALMIGHTY. He asked one of his New Christian Students to stand and . . .
Professor : You are a Christian, aren't you, son ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, you Believe in GOD ?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Professor : Is GOD Good ?
Student : Sure.
Professor : Is GOD ALL - POWERFUL ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : My Brother died of Cancer even though he Prayed to GOD to Heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn't. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?
(Student was silent )
Professor : You can't answer, can you ? Let's start again, Young Fella. Is GOD Good?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Is Satan good ?
Student : No.
Professor : Where does Satan come from ?
Student : From . . GOD . .
Professor : That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this World?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Evil is everywhere, isn't it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?
Student : Yes.
Professor : So who created evil ? (Student did not answer)
Professor : Is there Sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness?
All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, who Created them ? (Student had no answer)
Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe the World around you. Tell me, son . . . Have you ever Seen GOD?
Student : No, sir.
Professor : Tell us if you have ever Heard your GOD?
Student : No , sir.
Professor : Have you ever Felt your GOD , Tasted your GOD , Smelt your GOD ? Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of GOD for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Professor : Yet you still Believe in HIM?
Student : Yes.
Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my Faith.
to be continued............
An Atheist Professor of Philosophy was speaking to his Class on the Problem Science has
With GOD , the ALMIGHTY. He asked one of his New Christian Students to stand and . . .
Professor : You are a Christian, aren't you, son ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, you Believe in GOD ?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Professor : Is GOD Good ?
Student : Sure.
Professor : Is GOD ALL - POWERFUL ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : My Brother died of Cancer even though he Prayed to GOD to Heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn't. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?
(Student was silent )
Professor : You can't answer, can you ? Let's start again, Young Fella. Is GOD Good?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Is Satan good ?
Student : No.
Professor : Where does Satan come from ?
Student : From . . GOD . .
Professor : That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this World?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Evil is everywhere, isn't it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?
Student : Yes.
Professor : So who created evil ? (Student did not answer)
Professor : Is there Sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness?
All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, who Created them ? (Student had no answer)
Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe the World around you. Tell me, son . . . Have you ever Seen GOD?
Student : No, sir.
Professor : Tell us if you have ever Heard your GOD?
Student : No , sir.
Professor : Have you ever Felt your GOD , Tasted your GOD , Smelt your GOD ? Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of GOD for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Professor : Yet you still Believe in HIM?
Student : Yes.
Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my Faith.
to be continued............
Professor : Yes, Faith. And that is the Problem Science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat?
Professor : Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as Cold?
Professor : Yes.
Student : No, sir. There isn't..
(The Lecture Theatre became very quiet with this turn of events )
Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat, a Little Heat or No Heat. But we don't have anything called Cold. We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as Cold. Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat. We cannot Measure Cold. Heat is Energy. Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it. (There was Pin-Drop Silence in the Lecture Theatre )
Student : What about Darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as Darkness?
Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the Absence of Something. You can have Low Light, Normal Light, Bright Light, Flashing Light . But if you have No Light constantly, you have nothing and its called Darkness, isn't it? In reality, Darkness isn't. If it is, you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you?
Professor : So what is the point you are making, Young Man ?
Student : Sir, my point is your Philosophical Premise is flawed.
Professor : Flawed ? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality. You argue there is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD. You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought. It uses Electricity and Magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that Death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing. Death is Not the Opposite of Life: just the Absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your Students that they evolved from a Monkey?
Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shook his head with a Smile, beginning to realize where the Argument was going )
Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and Cannot even prove that this Process is an On-Going Endeavor,
Are you not teaching your Opinion, sir?
Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher?
(The Class was in Uproar )
Student : Is there anyone in the Class who has ever seen the Professor's Brain?
(The Class broke out into Laughter )
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's Brain, Felt it, touched or Smelt it? . . .
No one appears to have done so. So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that You have No Brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then Trust your Lectures, sir? (The Room was Silent. The Professor stared at the Student, his face unfathomable)
Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.
Student : That is it sir . . Exactly !
The Link between Man & GOD is FAITH.
That is all that Keeps Things Alive and Moving.
NB:
I believe you have enjoyed the Conversation . . and if so .. .
You'll probably want your Friends / Colleagues to enjoy the same . . . won't you?
Forward them to Increase their Knowledge . . . or FAITH.
That student was Albert Einstein.
Not sure on the fact if it was Albert Einstein but an interesting read nonetheless.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat?
Professor : Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as Cold?
Professor : Yes.
Student : No, sir. There isn't..
(The Lecture Theatre became very quiet with this turn of events )
Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat, a Little Heat or No Heat. But we don't have anything called Cold. We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as Cold. Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat. We cannot Measure Cold. Heat is Energy. Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it. (There was Pin-Drop Silence in the Lecture Theatre )
Student : What about Darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as Darkness?
Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the Absence of Something. You can have Low Light, Normal Light, Bright Light, Flashing Light . But if you have No Light constantly, you have nothing and its called Darkness, isn't it? In reality, Darkness isn't. If it is, you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you?
Professor : So what is the point you are making, Young Man ?
Student : Sir, my point is your Philosophical Premise is flawed.
Professor : Flawed ? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality. You argue there is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD. You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought. It uses Electricity and Magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that Death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing. Death is Not the Opposite of Life: just the Absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your Students that they evolved from a Monkey?
Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shook his head with a Smile, beginning to realize where the Argument was going )
Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and Cannot even prove that this Process is an On-Going Endeavor,
Are you not teaching your Opinion, sir?
Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher?
(The Class was in Uproar )
Student : Is there anyone in the Class who has ever seen the Professor's Brain?
(The Class broke out into Laughter )
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's Brain, Felt it, touched or Smelt it? . . .
No one appears to have done so. So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that You have No Brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then Trust your Lectures, sir? (The Room was Silent. The Professor stared at the Student, his face unfathomable)
Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.
Student : That is it sir . . Exactly !
The Link between Man & GOD is FAITH.
That is all that Keeps Things Alive and Moving.
NB:
I believe you have enjoyed the Conversation . . and if so .. .
You'll probably want your Friends / Colleagues to enjoy the same . . . won't you?
Forward them to Increase their Knowledge . . . or FAITH.
That student was Albert Einstein.
Not sure on the fact if it was Albert Einstein but an interesting read nonetheless.
Ralf74: Professor : Yes, Faith. And that is the Problem Science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat?
Professor : Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as Cold?
Professor : Yes.
Student : No, sir. There isn't..
(The Lecture Theatre became very quiet with this turn of events )
Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat, a Little Heat or No Heat. But we don't have anything called Cold. We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as Cold. Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat. We cannot Measure Cold. Heat is Energy. Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it. (There was Pin-Drop Silence in the Lecture Theatre )
Student : What about Darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as Darkness?
Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the Absence of Something. You can have Low Light, Normal Light, Bright Light, Flashing Light . But if you have No Light constantly, you have nothing and its called Darkness, isn't it? In reality, Darkness isn't. If it is, you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you?
Professor : So what is the point you are making, Young Man ?
Student : Sir, my point is your Philosophical Premise is flawed.
Professor : Flawed ? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality. You argue there is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD. You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought. It uses Electricity and Magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that Death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing. Death is Not the Opposite of Life: just the Absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your Students that they evolved from a Monkey?
Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shook his head with a Smile, beginning to realize where the Argument was going )
Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and Cannot even prove that this Process is an On-Going Endeavor,
Are you not teaching your Opinion, sir?
Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher?
(The Class was in Uproar )
Student : Is there anyone in the Class who has ever seen the Professor's Brain?
(The Class broke out into Laughter )
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's Brain, Felt it, touched or Smelt it? . . .
No one appears to have done so. So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that You have No Brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then Trust your Lectures, sir? (The Room was Silent. The Professor stared at the Student, his face unfathomable)
Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.
Student : That is it sir . . Exactly !
The Link between Man & GOD is FAITH.
That is all that Keeps Things Alive and Moving.
NB:
I believe you have enjoyed the Conversation . . and if so .. .
You'll probably want your Friends / Colleagues to enjoy the same . . . won't you?
Forward them to Increase their Knowledge . . . or FAITH.
That student was Albert Einstein. Not sure on the fact if it was Albert Einstein but an interesting read nonetheless.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat?
Professor : Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as Cold?
Professor : Yes.
Student : No, sir. There isn't..
(The Lecture Theatre became very quiet with this turn of events )
Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat, a Little Heat or No Heat. But we don't have anything called Cold. We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as Cold. Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat. We cannot Measure Cold. Heat is Energy. Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it. (There was Pin-Drop Silence in the Lecture Theatre )
Student : What about Darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as Darkness?
Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the Absence of Something. You can have Low Light, Normal Light, Bright Light, Flashing Light . But if you have No Light constantly, you have nothing and its called Darkness, isn't it? In reality, Darkness isn't. If it is, you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you?
Professor : So what is the point you are making, Young Man ?
Student : Sir, my point is your Philosophical Premise is flawed.
Professor : Flawed ? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality. You argue there is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD. You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought. It uses Electricity and Magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that Death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing. Death is Not the Opposite of Life: just the Absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your Students that they evolved from a Monkey?
Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shook his head with a Smile, beginning to realize where the Argument was going )
Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and Cannot even prove that this Process is an On-Going Endeavor,
Are you not teaching your Opinion, sir?
Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher?
(The Class was in Uproar )
Student : Is there anyone in the Class who has ever seen the Professor's Brain?
(The Class broke out into Laughter )
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's Brain, Felt it, touched or Smelt it? . . .
No one appears to have done so. So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that You have No Brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then Trust your Lectures, sir? (The Room was Silent. The Professor stared at the Student, his face unfathomable)
Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.
Student : That is it sir . . Exactly !
The Link between Man & GOD is FAITH.
That is all that Keeps Things Alive and Moving.
NB:
I believe you have enjoyed the Conversation . . and if so .. .
You'll probably want your Friends / Colleagues to enjoy the same . . . won't you?
Forward them to Increase their Knowledge . . . or FAITH.
That student was Albert Einstein. Not sure on the fact if it was Albert Einstein but an interesting read nonetheless.
No it was not an interesting read. It is obviously biased, made up and slapped together.
Albert Einstein wasn't Christian, by the way.
Did you know?
Atheists9086: Religion is a good thing.
It helps the more realistic people in this world succeed.
Religion keeps poor people in line.
So more money for me, then. :]
It helps the more realistic people in this world succeed.
Religion keeps poor people in line.
So more money for me, then. :]
yep you look loaded !!!!
Atheists9086: No it was not an interesting read. It is obviously biased, made up and slapped together.
Albert Einstein wasn't Christian, by the way.
Did you know?
Albert Einstein wasn't Christian, by the way.
Did you know?
Well if you actually bothered reading it properly, you will have noticed that I am not personally religious although I do appreciate that fact that others are entitled to be and that I was not standing by the fact that it was Albert Einstein.
I thought it was a good arguement for the believers.More Threads
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just like political views