Sojourner Forum Posts (472)

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

No! Absolutely wrong! Turkey has a secular government. Religious wear and insignia are not allowed in any schools. I taught in a Turkish school for 2 years, so I know whereof I speak. I would not have been allowed to wear a cross and no Turkish people, teachers or students, are allowed to wear any clothing that is reflection of religious faith. The ban was made by the government to keep religious expression out of State run institutions. ALL to do with religion. Nothing to do with culture

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

You are 34 years old and have lived in 40 countries? Wow!!

My point was that in personal experience, in living in two Muslim countries for 2 years each, I was never once told what to wear. Never once told to believe in anything. I was not told to adapt to anything. One country is a fairly liberal Muslim country, the other a very conservative theocracy.

In any case, the abaya hurts no one. It is no one's business if they wear it or not. And what one country does or doesn't do about this matter doesn't mean I have to accept that it is the right way to go. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because there are Muslim countries, like Saudi, where all women must cover, it doesn't mean that I have to agree that then any other country should adopt such an attitude. Don't we teach our children to do the right thing, not do what others are doing or use what others are doing to excuse bad behavior? I believe dress should not be dictated. I am not going to be swayed away from that principle just because I'm told it is dictated in other countries.

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

You're right bodleing. I can't understand someone who lives and works internationally saying what cooldreamcatcher is saying. Global immigration is a continuing historical reality since man has exited on earth. Tell people to go home? That's just ludicrous. Cultures do not remain stagnant. Cultures adapt. This is a way of dressing we are talking about, not about eating babies, per Jonathan Swift, and he was being satirical. Seriously, it doesn't hurt anyone that these women 'cover.' My gosh, I see some of the weirdest and wildest 'costumes' everyday on the metro and on the streets. Do we start dictating what everyone should wear? This ban is about misunderstanding a religion.

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

I have lived in two Muslim countries. No one told me how to dress or what to wear, never at any time. I was not forced to believe anything. One country I lived in was a theocracy, and there were laws based on Islamic law. Any theocracy, no matter what the religion, will have laws based on their religion.

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

I'm not Magenta, and I think those who do not realize how the centuries of colonization of other parts of the world by the Europeans has caused reverberating problems that we are now dealing with are very, very out of touch with not only history but current events.

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

If you had read any of my other posts, you would know I have lived among these women. For most it is a choice. A cultural tradition, an expression of religious faith. As far as you question about a Muslim country dictating being uncovered. I lived in Turkey as well as the Middle East. The Turkish government has dictated that women going to university cannot 'cover.' There was indeed an outcry...many women were extremely upset and protested about it. I haven't been in the country for 4 years now and don't know the outcome, but I do know that there was a lot of outcrying about it.

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

Also, they do not need to cover around other women. As I have known, befriended, worked with and lived in their country, I know a bit about these women and have been in their company when they were covered and when they were not covered.

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

Please don't believe one some people or one or two men are suggesting about Middle Eastern women or Muslim women who wear the abaya or burka. Underneath they are dressed just like you or me. They wear modern, fashionable clothing, they take care of their bodies the same as we do. When they are at home and just around their children and husband and close family, they do not need to cover. They want to be attractive to their husbands as much as any women does. The difference is that it is only their husband and close male family members who would see them 'uncovered.'

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

Misguided respect then because he obviously doesn't understand the women or their religion.

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

I had read the entire thread before I made the post. This is an open forum, thus there is no issue of one's butting into others' conversation...it's an open conversation/forum. And I didn't miss your point at all. Perhaps you missed mine. France invaded and colonized Muslim countries. As a result they now have a lot of citizens (people born in France) who are Muslim. All of the women who wear the Abaya in France are not immigrants. Either way, it shows a lack of reason and lack of knowledge about history to say the North African people need to shuffle on back to Africa now, that they have no place in Europe, especially in France. Many of the problems the world is now dealing with are a direct effect of the years of European colonization during the past 2 centuries.

RE: what height in a guy would you prefare?

Well, I'm 5'3" and my favorite height for men is 5'10" so I must be very average.

RE: what height in a guy would you prefare?

No I don't mean that. Why would you assume that? I wasn't talking about myself. It was a general observation about how people think.

RE: what height in a guy would you prefare?

The poll asked for preference. You can always win over a woman's heart in other ways. I'll bet if a poll asked for your preference, you'd say a certain size and weight, but if you met a woman a few pounds over that, and she was really cute/pretty and fun, etc., you wouldn't care she wasn't exactly your preferred size.

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

Absolutely agree!!

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

Wearing a cross is not prescribed by the Bible, but what if you were banned from wearing it? Do you not consider wearing a cross and expression of your religious faith?

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

There is no way you can have a rational discussion with someone who does not think rationally...

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

I am reading a lot of posts that express a lack of understanding about this garment, it's reason for being. I wonder if Americans are aware that people in other countries have notions about and hold stereotypical views about Americans, view that are often false and based on ignorance and even fear. If I were to write a post full of the ideas and attitudes people in other parts of the world hold about Americans, the response would be a barrage of angry attacks on me and those ideas. Yet, you are doing the same thing regarding the wearing of the Abaya and the principles behind wearing it.

I too have lived in Muslim countries, two different Muslim countries. Not all the women are wearing the Abaya under protest. It has to do with many things, including the way they view their religious faith, the family background, personal CHOICE, etc. I know young women who are not wearing it now because they are studying in Western universities, but they plan to wear it when the go back to their home country...they want to. These are educated women whose families allow them to make that choice, wherever they are living.

Islam and the West is not 'them and us.' We are all human and we have far more in common than not.

RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.

Can he literally ban it? What are they going to do, arrest women who wear it?

RE: Direct vs Indirect Communication

Well, I've been living in a German speaking country for 2 years, Austria, and have yet to meet an Austrian man I was attracted to. It does have a great deal to do with how they communicate. It's a cultural thing. I lived in German a year too, some time ago. Same thing: did not find German men appealing. I have met men from many other European countries and from Britain and of course N.America. Usually have no problem finding them attractive and enjoying flirting, talking, in depth conversations, etc. with them. That's just me though. I know a few American and British women who are married to Austiran men, so it really depends on the individual.

RE: im a blundering idiot...

UR right....it's creepy, and he's 30 years older than you.

RE: For Liberals Only: When should start holding Obama Accountable and stop blaming everyone else?

I am holding him accountable and he is doing fine. You did get your answer to the question. Things are showing some minor changes--it will take time. How long cannot be put into exact days or months. There is a lot to fix and the type of things that need fixing are not going to change over night.

RE: For Liberals Only: When should start holding Obama Accountable and stop blaming everyone else?

These people who are and have been attacking everything he does and says since he was elected and since he took office--all they do is how how mean spirited and prejudice they are. If their guy had been elected, they would be singing a completely different tune. It is absolutely hypocritical.

RE: im a blundering idiot...

I think it works both ways, there are both men and women who need the ego boost they get when they play with someone's heart. Sometimes, though, I think it is easier to play a women, they seem to be more trusting.

RE: Opera...do you love or hate it?

Live opera, yes. Love it. It can be so beautiful.

RE: unmarried relationship

I have been in unmarried living together relationships. Some people choose that type of situation over marriage. Some people live with someone for years and, as in my case, chose not to marry. So it is not a matter of 'premarital cohabitation.'

I know of many people who got married because society expects it, or because the woman was pregnant, or because the woman pressured the man into it, and many other reasons. One man told me once several of his girlfriends had wanted to get married 'just so' they 'could say' they'd 'been married.' These are not reasons to married.

Many living together relationships, such as mine, last longer than many marriages. There is a prejudice against never married people that I have just become aware of since I've been on singles sites. Most men do not have a problem with it, at least not most men I deal with. But a couple of times I've encountered men who insult me for having not been married, even though my living together relationship may have lasted longer than his marriage.

An official marriage ceremony can mean a lot, but when you look at the divorce statistics and at the reasons people marry, for most people that marriage ceremony and the sacred vows taken seem to mean very little. Stereotypical thinking that people who have never married have not had the opportunity are usually incorrect: in most cases they have and have wisely chosen not to.

RE: Update on my brother Mike

I hope things go well. I understand what you are feeling right now. Hoping for the best.

RE: Update on my brother Mike

I hope things go well. I understand what you are feeling right now. Hoping for the best.

RE: I just got a suspicion...

If it is a CS group, it doesn't seem like anything to worry about. Why not check it out?

RE: Have you ever met someone...

Apparently it does, as people have said it happened to them. However, it is probably rare that if someone feels like this, they follow through, get married, and it lasts a lifetime (or as long as a good marriage lasts these days).

RE: Women in general are gold digggers

Asking what someone does for a living, for me, is not about how much money he makes. It is about if he is an interesting person, a hard worker, a responsible person.