Vouyager, everytime this country has gone into a war or in a deadly conflicts....the safety of the people on the country is a paramount importance. We take steps to protect them.....here are some examples
WWII.....internment of 1000s of Japanese, post Pearl Harbor because they were felt to be a threat to the country, its war effort and its civilians WWI......the war started for the US because of unrestricted submarine activities by the Germans and the sinking of the Luscnina killing Americans civilians. Spanish American War....the trigger was the sinking of the USS Maine in Havana, but the war quickly moved to the Phillipine Islands were American civilians were at risk.
For us....Bhurka itself is not a weapon.....but it can used to hide them. I have cited earlier attacks that are unconventional and use civilian clothing.
Let say I take you up on your invitation to Saudi. I show up wearing inappropraite dress. With many areas to hide contriband. Would not your customs inspectors have the right to search that clothing for contriband? Sure they would. Or even declare the garment unwelcomed in Saudi? Also we both know that if I show at your country wearing inappropriate dress...I am not getting in the country.
Several month ago, I was at OIA, a large international airport....I saw several women in Bhurkas transiting thru. But then a year ago, I attended a Mosque open house....none wore Bhurkas that 80+ degree day in the summer day.
Well I could go to 1880s and the sepoy rebellion against the British as the start of them, Voyuager.
But actually let us try......even earlier........President Jefferson and the Barberi Pirates.
What is the difference between pirating a ship in the late 1700s and pirating a ship today as being done off Solomia?
This conflict has been engaged a long time in history, Vouyager.JMO We just use different terms to give some generational understanding to it.
Something else....with all this history. It has been 'rumored' that each President leaves a diary for the next President to read. That it began with President Washington. If so, President Obama has for the last 9 months had the thinking and logic of all our Presidents at his hand. Some 43 President's thoughts....on many topics.
I know Islam goes back further in man's history than our country, Vouyager. That it has had great libraries and great thinkers. Great scholars and great universities. But these 43 men are unique in history as well. They have seen a ideological conflict with some of Islam for a number of years.
If these diaries do exists...likely the very first that he would have read is Jefferson's. To trace back in history, 'why' this country is in conflict with some of Islam. Just maybe, in reading those dairies, he saw things that caused the Cairo speech and its tone of apology. Also they can help him understand the Iranian issue well enough to stop in giving a apology to Pres. A.
But who really knows? Maybe he is just winging it.....:-)
A thought for you Bodleing. Adu can play with the Brazilians at their own game....ball handling. He has the magic touch and speed to go with it.
So?
Sunday could be interesting. It would be a real bad mistake on thier part to mark him one on one. If they play him with two....it means some one else is getting space and one on one coverage.;-)
Just read a article on the match....some are saying it is one of the biggest matches the US has ever played....to play for win a major tourney and to play Brazil at the same time.
I am not going so far as to say that. I still like the 1-0 win over England, so many years ago that they were playing with the brown ball as being the biggest.:-)
As for fotbol taking off in the states......give it a year or two. I think we were saying that in 68-69......LOL....but it has come along ways since.
Boarding searches cover the entire person and all their clothing, Voyager. You know that. The point. I make is that it very time consuming to search all the clothing of this traditional dress.
So?
It is difficult to search....difficulty means that mistakes and errors that can permit contriband to pass is easier to occur.
I don't what Sarkozy will ban next. Most likely golf bags from the US....and we will get angry at the French and stop buying wine.
To be honest with you, prior to 9/11...I did not notice or pay much attention. I had seen women in Bhurka and it was no major deal prior.
But after 9/11, we all began to notice and pay attention.
After 9/11 we looked at our security risks and exposures with more care and detail....and it seems some can fault us for that. We look at how the attacks were conducted....from many angles. We wanted to give our HHS (Homeland Security) as many of the angles to make detection and compromise as possible.
The simple fact that a Bhruka dressed woman, makes visual identity nearly impossible. Visual identity is one of those security angles. So I agree that restriction of the traditional dress is because of 9/11 events.
Please tell us created them, Vouyager007. Asking Conrad to dig thru history means he will get stuck with Aynn Rand period...:-)....and we will never get to the answer.
Magenta, how far from Isreal and Gaza from Iran? Iran is not even connected to the two parties (Isreal and Palestines) that are in conflict. The distance is about 1000 miles
Of the Isreal's 7 wars and with nations states and 2 inifitadas with Palestine.....know how many times Iran has directly participated as a nation state combatant? 0
Iran has facilitated the conflicts. Sold weapons and explosives into them. Made money from them. Used them for stirring the middle east pot. For exporting revolutionary Islam. But actually sending Iranian forces to combat the Great Satan state of Israel. Never.
Does that seem strange or hypercritical to anyone? From the time of Iran's 1970s revolution, Isreal...that had nothing to do with the Shan being power....Iran has made Israel its target. Iran has used the 'general anger' in the Islamic world to 'how' Israel came into being...to cause so much death, to cause disharmony, to cause distrust, to rationalize terrorism for Jahid. And has stopped at nothing to keep the conflict and anger fired. Including killing fellow Muslims....
And no one seems to says.....hey it is Iran's fault to surragate and facilitate this conflict that is so many miles away from Iran. But rather it is that US of A fault the meddles into foreign gov't fault.
And now after 30 years of exporting Islamic revolution from Iran. Real revolution has come to Iran in the form of these protesters for Mousavi.
I just think tha Iran's revolutionary ideology should not prosper because of the conflict between Israel and Palestine. Because this last week. we have all seen this revolutionary ideology at work. It is the same basic ideology as was in Afghanistan under the Taliban.
The point I come to is this. Connecting Isreal west bank settlements disposition, to what Iran does or does not do... should not be a real factor. The peace has to come from the Palestine, Lebanonese, Syrians, Egyptians and Israel. Because all Iran has ever done or will ever do under the Supreme Leader and Pres. A regime....is try to kill peace movements in the region.
Magenta, in this post, you said near the same thing that Pres. A says...only in a nice way. At least you did not call the US the great Satan.
Pres. A seems to be retargetting. Tired of beating down oppressed protesters...and from berating Isreal for existing. Pres.A is now going to give the United States....a 'crushing blow'.
It would be different than the other blows...that Iran has given the United States. In that those....like the Marine Barrack bombing in Lebanon were done Iranian's surragates. Getting a direct 'crushing blow' from Iran would be different. More direct and more honest.
Unlike supporting AlQeada in Iraq with IEDS, timing systems, and other weapons and the 'crushing blows' they gave. A direct crushing blow from Iran, would finally tell the entire world what Pres. A is.
After President Obama has opened his hand in international friendship to not just Iran but the entire Muslim world. Pres. A sits in Iran suppressing unarmed protesters with crushing blows of the Basij Militia and other security forces. What a honorable man, Pres. A is. Killing his own people.
Earlier he asked for President Obama to apologize again. It was scoffed at. The Muslim world got its apology from the United States. Now Iran wants it own personal apology from the United State for meddling into the Iranian election. How was that done? By sending Sandara Baberi to Iran to be arrested and placed on a show trial? By having 30 some western journalist arrested during the election? By keeping Twitter running during the protest?
Here when we have evidence of Iran supplying ALQeada of Iraq with IED materials. With Iran supplying rockets to Hezbollah and Hamas. That is international meddling. So, I am with Pres. Obama on this one.
Pres. A better consider some of his own apologies for a time. Some have said 20 were killed....rumors are 100s have been killed. Some are saying 500 arrested.....others saying 1000s. From keeping the bin Laden sons i house arrest and some 500 Taliban and AlQeda safe after Afghansitan fell. To allowing fighters from Iraq to pass thru Iran to Afghanistan. Those are a just few things that Pres. A should apologies for.
And to finally silence the protestors....a hard line cleric wants to execute some that were arrested. Does that remind you of the Taliban in Afghanistan? Or AlQeada of Iraq? All Pres. A is ....is nothing more than a terrorist with a President's title.
Sure we can do some drop shipping. When UPS looks at those mailing label destination.....they will drop their sticky notes. I can see brown now....making the first delivery to Mrs. bin Laden.
Hmmmmmmmm....maybe we can run this as a CIA undercover sting operation? Get 100% Gov't funding for it?????
Hey those Hujlers, that President Obama just let out. We can offer them jobs.....and we can take other GITMO detainess on work release programs.
But, I am not so sure, Indy. I hear they do a bang up job in deliveries to big US of A cities likes New York....they fly in low and slow. But this pretty much remote area stuff....
But having President Obama as a spokesman for this firm....WoW that is great. Just so long as he does not get a conflict of interest with the other industries he is running....auto, banking, insurance
Mummmmm....but consider the marketing problem for a moment. I mean manufacturing we got down pat.....some kind of Bhurka in a clear plastic. Manpower we got, with unemployment hitting 10%. Advertising we got, with media like al-Jezerra and liberal west media doing Tommy Hellfire marketing programs on it.Financing we got, with the Obama stimulus packages and bankers smiling again.
But are you going to go to the tribal regions of Pakistan to take orders??? To Fallagu to take orders???? To Sadr City??????
That is a problem, Indy......unless you hire Blackwater to guard you. But I hear they a have been put out of business. I will work it a little and have my people meet your people with an answer.
And how do I know how effective that inspection is? The Brhuka is how many yards of cloth? 5-7 yards of multi layered clothing.
Think that female inspector with 10 women to inspect, standing outside a cubicle all trying get boarded for a soon departing flight ...is going to have them all remove the Bhruka for a hand inspection? No.....at best you get is a pat down inspection.
The same reason that gang members here in the US wear lose fitting clothes with pants pulled down below thier hips....it is easier to conceal a weapon and easier to avoid it detection in a pat down search.
Many smaller airports that run regional and cummuter flights don't provide such female inspection procedures or have the facilities to do them.
What I am really trying to say....is just like a the long robes of a African tribal leader, or the robes of Muslim or the long clothing of a traditional Jew, the Bhurka can be altered in such a manner to make concealment of contriband items and weapons easier and less likely to detect.
To me, this issue of security is not a religious or cultural thing. It is that 'some' people will use traditional dress to avoid security systems.
I could care less if women wear bhurkas, as a choice and statement of faith. I do care if those boarding a plane with me have been screened properly.
I don't know about the rest of you....but when I go thru a airport security....I have to take off my shoes for a inspection....have a metal detector inspect my body....including have my face photo compared to the terrorist data base.....and other invasions of my person...prior to boarding.
So if I can put up with personal invasion of my person for 'security purposes', why should a Muslim woman right to wear the bhurka supercede these security methods for the safety of passenger and crews of the aircraft and those on the ground? Because that Bhurka...can be altered in ways to avoid detection of contriband items?
You say how?
A thin layer of lead will keep nuclear material from being detected. A thin layer of aluminium will will keep electronic devices from being detected. Hidden pockets can hold Glocks hand guns, which are plastic and don't show up in screening as well.
I thought cap and trade meant....a college graduate was going get a job at a Wall Street trading firm???:-) I got it wrong???:-)
Very few gov't or consultant cost projections are close to the actual (real) figures of a program. Many studies show this. Just no way to estimate all the various costs and cost to impliment programs.
Speaking more generally in this area....Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck have by talking about how this is the time of the 'global problem' and the 'global solution'.
How many countries can effectively operate outside of their country (where laws, customs, languages, and gov't structure is often vastly different)? When one begins to put cost estimating into programs outside of the country...cost estimates are about are pretty hard to hit.
Tell you what is bugging me a some. I don't get bugged easily. But this is getting me a little on MJ death.
MJ's eBay items have all been sold out. A Las Vegas celebrity auction were MJ had some items, all were sold for high dollar figures. And some collectors of MJ items have been rumored to be selling items at high prices. There is rumor of some 100 unpublished and unrecorded songs in his estate.
The man is not even in the ground, and people are profiting from his passing. That bugs me some.......
GWB? Nah.......if it does not take down a ruthless dictator and/or involve oil....GWB is not interested. OH..Taliban were led by a ruthless dictator, you say. OH....AlQeada could effect middle eastern oil flow from bases in Afghanistan.
I had not heard that...but saw them (his White House press staff) give preffential treatment to a reporter from Huffington post the other day at a Q and A.
Maybe the Amabo Club should file as a new agency. Attend the White House Q and As.
Mr. President, I have been meaning to ask a question about the stimulus package............
I doubt if it would make one of the 13 questions he answers.
Indy, he has given releases to most every media organization (exception being FOXX) in the world to do interview, do documentaries, info commercials full movies, and on the spot West Wing at the White house. So?
Having his personal life (roasted by some and and toasted by others) here at CS is not going to matter much.
A good summer any way... get laid or some thing... find a sweet left winged peace lover woman who shows you the meaning of real love and feel life in a differnet way for gud sake! Become a little Hippi for a while... loosen up... dance and sing and reject hatered invading your mind!
Any sweet women in here taking TT please??? TT can behave and he is a good fellow but just very mad and very denying the reality here and now... a good periode of pink pleasur will make him more balanced
Dude, it was all humor in my post. I should have added the So you would have known.
As for finding a left peace loving women.....maybe better to find a hard body sharp shootin rightie.....but love knows no political extremes. And does make strange bed fellows.
My summer is going to be a little tight with work projects. Some us here in the US of A have to work to pay for the budgets, Obama is making.:-)
But I have a vacation planned in early fall.
But have a safe vacation.....and watch for the worm in the bottom of the bottle....if you head to Cuba.
Also.....the bit on GWB sending the CIA after you? Was a joke. He would not do that. But with what you have been saying about Pres. A....heads up on the Iranian Secret Service.:-)
Say hi to Medvedev, Putin, Castro, Kim, Pres. A, Chavez for us all.
Tell Chaves...Obama read the book, did not like it...is being used for a door stop in the White House.
tell Medvedev and Putin, that the electric car that GM is now working on get 85 miles to the gallon....
tell Castro.....not in a million years
tell Kim......his saber is rusty
Oh and GWB sends his best. There is a CIA agent following you on your vacation. See what happened when you make the CIA angry, they just work for the guy they like.
As of 25 June 0355, the Mymar government says that it expects a second NKorean Ship carrying rice. But Article does not mention secret negotiations or that the Kang Nam 1 would not port in Mymar.
I quote:
"Certain foreign news agencies have been spreading rumors there days about a DPRK (NKorean)-owned cargo vessel, Kang Nam 1, which left Nampo port, NKorea on June 17th" said the New Light Newspaper of Mymar."The authorities themselves have no know of the Kang Nam 1, iteself as reported by the new agencies."
Just means it is more likely to be carrying weapons and munitions, because the NKorean did not list it cargo in any international maritime data base.
But in this report of the late morning the 25th, the Kan Nam 1 is destination is still unknown.
The Defense Department seems to be taking another look at the Kang Nam 1 boarding even.
The US Defense Department said the ship is still overnight being monitored but declined to give location or when the US might search it.
"That is a decision we will likely take collectively with our allies and partners out there about whether we choose to hail and querry this particular ship."
and in White House lingo he adds....'so don't hyberventilate about this particular ship."
I had to get a dig in someplace.:-)
Do you have something more recent than 25 June 0400??
In one of the shortest 4 paragragh statements from the White House, two unnamed White House staffer....said the White House is considering detention of some of the GITMO prisoners for a INDEFINITE period of time.
Ah yes....when one needs to be brief in words...very brief in his words....:-)
President Obama rejected the Pres. A request for a apology for meddling in the Iranian election.
I will site at the end.
A few quotes:
President Obama: "The violence perpetrated against them is outrageous." and "The Iranian regime needs to think carefully about answers to protester that it has arrested, blugdened and killed." and "I don't take Pres. Ahmerdinejad statement very seriously about apologies, when the United States has gone out of its way to not to interfere with the election process in Iran."
German President Merkel was at the Q and A
Her quote is: "We will not forget"
President Obama on Mousavi: "He has shown to have captured the imagination within Iran that were interested in opening up."
This is President Obama closest statement to recognizing Mousavi to be the elected president of Iran.
Don't you understand the concept of transition? It means that one administration has all its documents accounted, its printing plates accounted, its fiduary docmetns accounted....
if any thing was irregular with transition accounting of those items....you don't think that the DEMs would have raise cane??? They would have been screaming. The media would have been Q and A GWB to death over it.
Once the election is over, the transition occurs. Obama had his chance to find anything wrong in the GWB administration then.
You cannot blame GWB for the forged bonds or the missing plates if they came from the FED.....it is Obama's.
There is a legal concept here......just like a statute limitation of murder charges or a on a crime.
Dude, Dude, Dude.....
by the way.....the controller of CA is prepping to to issue $3b in IOUs (script) to keep the CA running.
Well during the Civil War and post Civil War period, the FED government had issued script to pay bills. One of the reasons that Pres. Grants administration is considered to be the most corrupted in the history of the country......is script.
It was seldom repaid, as the gov't 'changed' the processing rules for redemption on the script. Get it in direct payment, hard cash or coin from the gov'ts if you are a vendor....is my suggestion.
For everything that is happening (IRAN, N.KOREA, Somolia, Pakistan, Afghanistan)in the world today. And with a Joe Biden a 'expert in foreign affairs' with 30 years in the Senate on the Foreign Service committee.
Jumbin Joe has been very quiet.
Rumor in DC a while back was that Pres. Obama has gotten tired of Jumin Joe comments....
Maybe Jumbin Joe has decided that his place in the Senate....doing legislative things.....and is letting others in the Obama administration do the foreign policy work.
ttom500 Forum Posts (10,523)
So you would have known.
RE: Sarkozy bans burqa wearing.
Vouyager, everytime this country has gone into a war or in a deadly conflicts....the safety of the people on the country is a paramount importance. We take steps to protect them.....here are some examplesWWII.....internment of 1000s of Japanese, post Pearl Harbor
because they were felt to be a threat to the country, its war effort and its civilians
WWI......the war started for the US because of unrestricted submarine activities by the Germans and the sinking of the Luscnina killing Americans civilians.
Spanish American War....the trigger was the sinking of the USS Maine in Havana, but the war quickly moved to the Phillipine Islands were American civilians were at risk.
For us....Bhurka itself is not a weapon.....but it can used to hide them. I have cited earlier attacks that are unconventional and use civilian clothing.
Let say I take you up on your invitation to Saudi. I show up wearing inappropraite dress. With many areas to hide contriband. Would not your customs inspectors have the right to search that clothing for contriband? Sure they would. Or even declare the garment unwelcomed in Saudi? Also we both know that if I show at your country wearing inappropriate dress...I am not getting in the country.
Several month ago, I was at OIA, a large international airport....I saw several women in Bhurkas transiting thru. But then a year ago, I attended a Mosque open house....none wore Bhurkas that 80+ degree day in the summer day.