What defines us in a relationship? (159)
Phoenix: Whats the chance of someone putting the contents of this thread into one paragraph...For me to follow.
Or am I forced to read it from the start to the finish to understand...
Or am I forced to read it from the start to the finish to understand...
In a nutshell, to remain an individual, even in a partnership, to be free to pursue your own dreams, interest and aspirations and not to lose your own identity in your attempt to keep and save your marriage or relationship .. and still keep the fire burning between the two of you. Sounds difficult?
I've seen it happen to me. It ain't easy..
rusty_knight: Excellent!
Thank you! :hug
Phoenix: that is certainly one of the drawbacks of threads and sometimes an incredible waste of time. But I found this one wasn't. So go for it!
Amaryllis: In a nutshell, to remain an individual, even in a partnership, to be free to pursue your own dreams, interest and aspirations and not to lose your own identity in your attempt to keep and save your marriage or relationship .. and still keep the fire burning between the two of you. Sounds difficult?
I've seen it happen to me. It ain't easy..
I've seen it happen to me. It ain't easy..
Yep, we are all learning and as far as I'm concerned I rather learn properly within a relationship than on my own in relation to my cats
But seriously; it's a VERY tricky balance and does require efforts and committment from both. So that's the sort of partner to look for in the first place IMHO... 
symbolistartist: I certainly have become quite uncompromising in some of my "requirements" because I know what defines me and so I have some incling as to what would define me in a good relationship as well - am certainly open to life's surprises since we cannot control everything, but we can direct our intentions in a certain direction and IMO that's a very important thing to do. The goal should certainly be a well balanced relationship that is secure enough to give you the space and time to pursue your own things while at the same time the time that is being shared is real quality time with lots of interest, love and concern for the other. In short, this can only happen if both are secure with themselves and know who they are and what they want. So some people who break up do need a few years to find that out first.
What a great insight! I will remember it. Thanks, V
hey Ven, it's a terrible situation you describe there in the OP..not easy at all..
do you think it's important that people are fully content as individuals before entering a partnership?..it seems that unless they are, some emotional battlefield is waiting for them..
still it seems kinda ironic, no?...to find a happy relationship you need to not need one...stuff of life I guess..
do you think it's important that people are fully content as individuals before entering a partnership?..it seems that unless they are, some emotional battlefield is waiting for them..
still it seems kinda ironic, no?...to find a happy relationship you need to not need one...stuff of life I guess..
smoky: It is sad, I think, when one person begins to dominate another.
To my way of thinking - one puts themself into the Authority Figure and relegates the other into the Submissive One - and dominates until there is nothing left of the Individuality of the person they were originally attracted to (merely a Reflection of themself?) - and this is no longer attractive - so they leave to find a new Victim (?).
To my way of thinking - one puts themself into the Authority Figure and relegates the other into the Submissive One - and dominates until there is nothing left of the Individuality of the person they were originally attracted to (merely a Reflection of themself?) - and this is no longer attractive - so they leave to find a new Victim (?).
Well, actually, in my case, it was way more complex that this.
But I was the one in the end, that finished it. I told him to leave. I helped him pack. I called the truck to take his things away. I helped him settle in to his temporary accommodation he had found. I simply wanted to reclaim my self, my soul and my sanity. That was all. And I did. That was 20 years ago.
We have way since made peace. He is now a lawyer. Last week he obliged and sent me a proforma for a commercial lease I needed to give my agent. It pays to remain friends.
antcus: The thing I hate most in a marriage is that one gives up his or her identity to become a part of a team, where one has to bring the intersts of the partner before one's own, or risk being accused of being egoistic, and risking breaking up the marriage.
So in a marriage we lose our freedom, our identity and our ability to act independently of each other.
We are also isolated from our previous friends and from the social circles around us.
So in a marriage we lose our freedom, our identity and our ability to act independently of each other.
We are also isolated from our previous friends and from the social circles around us.
Hello antcus, I don't agree that this happens with all marriages by any means. But where and when it does, one hopes those people do reclaim these things for themselves, and come out all the stronger.
smoky: It is sad, I think, when one person begins to dominate another.
To my way of thinking - one puts themself into the Authority Figure and relegates the other into the Submissive One - and dominates until there is nothing left of the Individuality of the person they were originally attracted to (merely a Reflection of themself?) - and this is no longer attractive - so they leave to find a new Victim (?).
To my way of thinking - one puts themself into the Authority Figure and relegates the other into the Submissive One - and dominates until there is nothing left of the Individuality of the person they were originally attracted to (merely a Reflection of themself?) - and this is no longer attractive - so they leave to find a new Victim (?).
I just want to add one other thing here. That is that a person cannot put themselves into the Authority position, the 'Parent' position as it were, unless the other places himself/herself in the 'Child' position. Let the games begin.
symbolistartist: This is a good question Venere08. I think that today, the majority of people come from backgrounds that were more or less dysfunctional. It means they attract similar people later on or behave abnormally themselves. By abnormally I mean excessive control and other extreme emotions. It's really like a pandemic because it takes years to fix such patterns and in my own life I have found that every man I lived with had really deep ingrained pathologies that there were neither willing nor able to change.
.... Still I have no real regrets because I did learn a lot about life and how people communicate. If nothing else it helps me in paying attention to warning signs.
In short; many of us go through the first part of life in agony, but if we can learn from our mistakes there is hope that the latter part will be much more balanced.
.... Still I have no real regrets because I did learn a lot about life and how people communicate. If nothing else it helps me in paying attention to warning signs.
In short; many of us go through the first part of life in agony, but if we can learn from our mistakes there is hope that the latter part will be much more balanced.
I agree with what you have said, symbolistartist. When my son was born, I knew I had a huge responsibility to raise him in a way which would help him become a well functioning man. He has turned out to be a young man with many friends, both male and female. His female friends come in all shapes and sizes, and he treats them all the same way, with the focus being on the person.
With all that I went through in my marriage, and beyond during the years of being dragged through courts(he was finally deemed to be frivolous and litigious), I am in many ways, thankful, because it strongly shaped who I am today. I have still much to learn, and still grow as a person, but I think in all, I am happy with who I am.
guiriman: hey Ven, it's a terrible situation you describe there in the OP..not easy at all..
do you think it's important that people are fully content as individuals before entering a partnership?..it seems that unless they are, some emotional battlefield is waiting for them..
still it seems kinda ironic, no?...to find a happy relationship you need to not need one...stuff of life I guess..
do you think it's important that people are fully content as individuals before entering a partnership?..it seems that unless they are, some emotional battlefield is waiting for them..
still it seems kinda ironic, no?...to find a happy relationship you need to not need one...stuff of life I guess..
If I may... this thing about getting a great relationship once you don't really need it is certainly an old adage, but I've thought it over and over and come to the conclusion that it's more a question of knowing what you want from a relationship. Some people do need time on their own, maybe for the rest of their lives (like my mom who's not totally adverse to having a partner but really is a bit of a lone wolf and set in her ways). But I certainly think as I stated earlier that I rather grow as a person within a relationship and REALLY get to the bottom of any pathology I may still carry with me, since an intimate relationship is the best place to do so IMO. However, many of us can't have a good one unless we've come to a certain point of self-realization and humility about ourselves. So by no means do we need to be perfect, only openminded enough to really learn through another person.... does that make sense?
guiriman: do you think it's important that people are fully content as individuals before entering a partnership?..it seems that unless they are, some emotional battlefield is waiting for them..
still it seems kinda ironic, no?...to find a happy relationship you need to not need one...stuff of life I guess..
still it seems kinda ironic, no?...to find a happy relationship you need to not need one...stuff of life I guess..
guiri, I don't believe anyone can ever be 'fully' content, and so it would not be a prerequisite to entering a partnership/relationship with another. What is important, however, is for the two people concerned, aside from being commpatable in interests and other areas, that they relate as two adults. This means they will have worked on themselves, so that they know what their strengths and weaknesses are, and be able to use these positively in the relationship. And to remain open to growing within that relationship, as artistsymbolist so well described.
I know I am simplifying the above, but it's 1.30am and I have already stopped making sense to myself!
symbolistartist: I have no children but was taking care of a very troubled boy for a few years and like to believe that something did indeed change for the better in his case. I was severe with him but we are still friends so I feel my female instincts might have been correct.
You are to be commended for treating him that way. By 'sever', I take it to mean as setting clear limits, providing structure, while creating an environment in which he could grow and thrive.
Well done!
symbolistartist: If I may... this thing about getting a great relationship once you don't really need it is certainly an old adage, but I've thought it over and over and come to the conclusion that it's more a question of knowing what you want from a relationship. Some people do need time on their own, maybe for the rest of their lives (like my mom who's not totally adverse to having a partner but really is a bit of a lone wolf and set in her ways). But I certainly think as I stated earlier that I rather grow as a person within a relationship and REALLY get to the bottom of any pathology I may still carry with me, since an intimate relationship is the best place to do so IMO. However, many of us can't have a good one unless we've come to a certain point of self-realization and humility about ourselves. So by no means do we need to be perfect, only openminded enough to really learn through another person.... does that make sense?
Hi Sym, yeah it makes perfect sense..I think I'm perhaps in the same group as your mom in a lot of ways...I've been divorced for maybe 15 years and, although I've known other women since, I don't yearn for a relationship as I recognise that lone wolf feeling in myself too..
I'm not sure I agree with you about a relationship being the best place to get to the bottom of emotional problems tho..do you not think it's possible to be single and sort out those things? or am I reading you wrong?
guiriman: Hi Sym, yeah it makes perfect sense..I think I'm perhaps in the same group as your mom in a lot of ways...I've been divorced for maybe 15 years and, although I've known other women since, I don't yearn for a relationship as I recognise that lone wolf feeling in myself too..
I'm not sure I agree with you about a relationship being the best place to get to the bottom of emotional problems tho..do you not think it's possible to be single and sort out those things? or am I reading you wrong?
I'm not sure I agree with you about a relationship being the best place to get to the bottom of emotional problems tho..do you not think it's possible to be single and sort out those things? or am I reading you wrong?
Well yeah it's a good question, I have always been into personal growth but have felt that I've grown the most in the daily interaction with someone I had to get along with - after all we're talking to complete strangers who suddenly get together and share such a huge chunk of one's life! But that being said, I have found ways of growing on my own too, though in my case the internet has provided me with the best opportunities. I feel I learn a tremendous lot from interacting with people online. I'm sure if I was in working life I could learn too but the internet can be as intense as you like and so you can get a lot out of it if you really want to (though sometimes I get freaking tired of it all, lol).
Then we have the case of therapy: can an intimate relationship take the place of a psychotherapeutic relationship? Personally I've gotten something out of seeing a shrink only a very few times in my life while thinking through my own problems while in a relationship has provided me with much more food for thought. Let's say that has simply been the way things have unfolded in my case but it could certainly be different for someone else.
Correction!
...after all we're talking TWO complete strangers who suddenly get together and share such a huge chunk of THEIR LIVES.
...after all we're talking TWO complete strangers who suddenly get together and share such a huge chunk of THEIR LIVES.
guiriman: I'm not sure I agree with you about a relationship being the best place to get to the bottom of emotional problems tho..do you not think it's possible to be single and sort out those things? or am I reading you wrong?
I know that symbolistartist will answer this herself, but I would like to respond to this as it is an important point you make, guiri.
I actually agree with symbolist. Not because we can't continue personal growth while we are alone, but because there are many things that through relating so closely to another individual, poses challenges for us not possible with ordinary friendships. Issues of trust, commitment, past 'scripts' and so on, that might only come into play within a more intimate relationship. It is also the environment in which we each may learn to spread our wings under the watchful support and guidance of that significant other. If this makes any sense. I really must go to bed and pick up this thread again in the morning.
Ciao for now.
venere08: You are to be commended for treating him that way. By 'sever', I take it to mean as setting clear limits, providing structure, while creating an environment in which he could grow and thrive.
Well done!
Well done!
Thanks! My mom was brought up along 19th C principles so at times I was rather strict and my ex got very nervous about it, but apparently no real harm was done since he seems to be doing quite well now at the age of 15
Yeah I certainly felt a VERY urgent need to rectify some terrible lack in manners and knowledge of human interaction that this poor boy had because of his very sick mother who later committed suicide.venere08: I know that symbolistartist will answer this herself, but I would like to respond to this as it is an important point you make, guiri.
I actually agree with symbolist. Not because we can't continue personal growth while we are alone, but because there are many things that through relating so closely to another individual, poses challenges for us not possible with ordinary friendships. Issues of trust, commitment, past 'scripts' and so on, that might only come into play within a more intimate relationship. It is also the environment in which we each may learn to spread our wings under the watchful support and guidance of that significant other. If this makes any sense. I really must go to bed and pick up this thread again in the morning.
Ciao for now.
I actually agree with symbolist. Not because we can't continue personal growth while we are alone, but because there are many things that through relating so closely to another individual, poses challenges for us not possible with ordinary friendships. Issues of trust, commitment, past 'scripts' and so on, that might only come into play within a more intimate relationship. It is also the environment in which we each may learn to spread our wings under the watchful support and guidance of that significant other. If this makes any sense. I really must go to bed and pick up this thread again in the morning.
Ciao for now.
Well that was very well said and I hope you will sleep well! Just to add that some of those past scripts often don't surface until we REALLY have to get along with another person - to be dependent on someone (hopefully not co-dependent but anyway) can bring up VERY deep insecurities.
venere08: guiri, I don't believe anyone can ever be 'fully' content, and so it would not be a prerequisite to entering a partnership/relationship with another. What is important, however, is for the two people concerned, aside from being commpatable in interests and other areas, that they relate as two adults. This means they will have worked on themselves, so that they know what their strengths and weaknesses are, and be able to use these positively in the relationship. And to remain open to growing within that relationship, as artistsymbolist so well described.
I know I am simplifying the above, but it's 1.30am and I have already stopped making sense to myself!
I know I am simplifying the above, but it's 1.30am and I have already stopped making sense to myself!
hi Ven, have a good sleep
I don't know if I'm deluding myself but I feel pretty close to fully content in many ways really. To be honest, I don't like sleeping alone, never have gotten used to it, but as long as I have supportive friends around me... you know, somebody to chat with when I need to... then on that level life's honestly fine.
Some people prefer to be in a bad relationship that to be alone. I could never feel that way personally.
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Or am I forced to read it from the start to the finish to understand...