What defines us in a relationship? (159)
venere08: Today, I saw a 51 yr old woman, who wanted some help with overeating behaviour. She proceeded to say that her husband of 32 years simply left her one day, just over a year ago. She came home from work at 9pm, to find him missing, and some of his key possessions, gone. He returned for their daughter's birthday 2 days later, and told his wife, by the way, he had never loved her. He moved in with a younger woman, and has since had a string of women, settled with none of them.
This dear woman feels shattered and lost. She got married at 19, and moved from living with her parents, to living with her husband.
She was always referred to in life as 'Bob's wife', or the mother of their three children, now grown and left the nest.
She said she has no sense of who she is. Her husband never 'allowed' her to do anything that interested her. Now she simple feels lost. The only control she has felt she had over the entire ordeal, is applying for the divorce which was granted, much to husband's annoyance. She now has the task ahead of finding out who she is.
I cast my mind back to when I was married, eons ago. My then husband would not allow me to listen to music of my choice, he wanted me to dye my hair pitch black or blue black, and woe betide if I gained even only a few pounds, and so on. Always introduced as 'David's wife, then later, as 'Sebastian's mother'. I felt like jumping up and down and saying, 'Hey, I am me, you know... Fil'!!! After the split, I remember having to discover all over again, who I was, regain my sense of self, gain confidence all over again. Be happy again. And I did.
That got me thinking about what does define us. What gives us a sense of self?
This dear woman feels shattered and lost. She got married at 19, and moved from living with her parents, to living with her husband.
She was always referred to in life as 'Bob's wife', or the mother of their three children, now grown and left the nest.
She said she has no sense of who she is. Her husband never 'allowed' her to do anything that interested her. Now she simple feels lost. The only control she has felt she had over the entire ordeal, is applying for the divorce which was granted, much to husband's annoyance. She now has the task ahead of finding out who she is.
I cast my mind back to when I was married, eons ago. My then husband would not allow me to listen to music of my choice, he wanted me to dye my hair pitch black or blue black, and woe betide if I gained even only a few pounds, and so on. Always introduced as 'David's wife, then later, as 'Sebastian's mother'. I felt like jumping up and down and saying, 'Hey, I am me, you know... Fil'!!! After the split, I remember having to discover all over again, who I was, regain my sense of self, gain confidence all over again. Be happy again. And I did.
That got me thinking about what does define us. What gives us a sense of self?
The thing I hate most in a marriage is that one gives up his or her identity to become a part of a team, where one has to bring the intersts of the partner before one's own, or risk being accused of being egoistic, and risking breaking up the marriage.
So in a marriage we lose our freedom, our identity and our ability to act independently of each other.
We are also isolated from our previous friends and from the social circles around us.
When we lose our companion for any reason, be it death, divorce, seperation after discovering betrayal etc, we are like prisoners who have suddenly been released from prison after a long stay locked up. Sometimes we prefer to go back to our prisons and lock ourselves back in there. At least that is the place we have known best for the last decades.
We have to look for new friends and for new interests in society.
The first thing that we discover is that we are not acceptable to society as we are now, and that even if we decide to go dating, our old ways of twenty or thirty years before don't apply any more. We have to change looks, clothes and approach. What was ok with our partners is not ok to the people out there that we have not got used to yet.
Add the fact that the leftover ones are still very hurt and in most cases, still very much in love with their old companions, and one finds it is impossible to adjust to the new phsychological situation.
I really can't tell you how we who have gone through such an experience could define ourselves in our new existence.
antcus: The thing I hate most in a marriage is that one gives up his or her identity to become a part of a team, where one has to bring the intersts of the partner before one's own, or risk being accused of being egoistic, and risking breaking up the marriage.
So in a marriage we lose our freedom, our identity and our ability to act independently of each other.
We are also isolated from our previous friends and from the social circles around us.
When we lose our companion for any reason, be it death, divorce, seperation after discovering betrayal etc, we are like prisoners who have suddenly been released from prison after a long stay locked up. Sometimes we prefer to go back to our prisons and lock ourselves back in there. At least that is the place we have known best for the last decades.
We have to look for new friends and for new interests in society.
The first thing that we discover is that we are not acceptable to society as we are now, and that even if we decide to go dating, our old ways of twenty or thirty years before don't apply any more. We have to change looks, clothes and approach. What was ok with our partners is not ok to the people out there that we have not got used to yet.
Add the fact that the leftover ones are still very hurt and in most cases, still very much in love with their old companions, and one finds it is impossible to adjust to the new phsychological situation.
I really can't tell you how we who have gone through such an experience could define ourselves in our new existence.
So in a marriage we lose our freedom, our identity and our ability to act independently of each other.
We are also isolated from our previous friends and from the social circles around us.
When we lose our companion for any reason, be it death, divorce, seperation after discovering betrayal etc, we are like prisoners who have suddenly been released from prison after a long stay locked up. Sometimes we prefer to go back to our prisons and lock ourselves back in there. At least that is the place we have known best for the last decades.
We have to look for new friends and for new interests in society.
The first thing that we discover is that we are not acceptable to society as we are now, and that even if we decide to go dating, our old ways of twenty or thirty years before don't apply any more. We have to change looks, clothes and approach. What was ok with our partners is not ok to the people out there that we have not got used to yet.
Add the fact that the leftover ones are still very hurt and in most cases, still very much in love with their old companions, and one finds it is impossible to adjust to the new phsychological situation.
I really can't tell you how we who have gone through such an experience could define ourselves in our new existence.
Hello antcus, long time no see!
I don´t agree that marriage necessarily means being isolated from our friends. That certainly wasn´t the case for me, in fact this was only something I experienced after my divorce in a subsequent serious relationship which lasted 2 years. It was horrendous, the man was so jealous and persistently attempted to isolate me completely from anybody or anything he was not a direct part of. We did not live together, except the occasional weekend. but he had to know exactly where I was and what I was doing.
However, I do agree that it is difficult, but necessary to adapt and change somewhat after a long marriage or relationship. This is easier if both parties have agreed that the relationship is no longer working of course, as in my case.
Now I´m relatively happy being single, in fact I´m becoming more used to it. I have good friends and a social life so I am fortunate. However, I met somebody at 16, and was with him until my early forties, it was a crazy, exciting, extremely loving relationship for most of the time we were together (so much so that we married each other twice!) so being part of a couple is something I miss....but only sometimes!
Jan1305: It was horrendous, the man was so jealous and persistently attempted to isolate me completely from anybody or anything he was not a direct part of. We did not live together, except the occasional weekend. but he had to know exactly where I was and what I was doing.
Hi Jan,
Possibly because he may have been, or still was, a cheater himself, and therefore knew exactly how easy it COULD be for you to cheat on him.
antcus: The thing I hate most in a marriage is that one gives up his or her identity to become a part of a team, where one has to bring the intersts of the partner before one's own, or risk being accused of being egoistic, and risking breaking up the marriage.
So in a marriage we lose our freedom, our identity and our ability to act independently of each other.
We are also isolated from our previous friends and from the social circles around us.
When we lose our companion for any reason, be it death, divorce, seperation after discovering betrayal etc, we are like prisoners who have suddenly been released from prison after a long stay locked up. Sometimes we prefer to go back to our prisons and lock ourselves back in there. At least that is the place we have known best for the last decades.
We have to look for new friends and for new interests in society.
The first thing that we discover is that we are not acceptable to society as we are now, and that even if we decide to go dating, our old ways of twenty or thirty years before don't apply any more. We have to change looks, clothes and approach. What was ok with our partners is not ok to the people out there that we have not got used to yet.
Add the fact that the leftover ones are still very hurt and in most cases, still very much in love with their old companions, and one finds it is impossible to adjust to the new phsychological situation.
I really can't tell you how we who have gone through such an experience could define ourselves in our new existence.
So in a marriage we lose our freedom, our identity and our ability to act independently of each other.
We are also isolated from our previous friends and from the social circles around us.
When we lose our companion for any reason, be it death, divorce, seperation after discovering betrayal etc, we are like prisoners who have suddenly been released from prison after a long stay locked up. Sometimes we prefer to go back to our prisons and lock ourselves back in there. At least that is the place we have known best for the last decades.
We have to look for new friends and for new interests in society.
The first thing that we discover is that we are not acceptable to society as we are now, and that even if we decide to go dating, our old ways of twenty or thirty years before don't apply any more. We have to change looks, clothes and approach. What was ok with our partners is not ok to the people out there that we have not got used to yet.
Add the fact that the leftover ones are still very hurt and in most cases, still very much in love with their old companions, and one finds it is impossible to adjust to the new phsychological situation.
I really can't tell you how we who have gone through such an experience could define ourselves in our new existence.
Hi, at work right now, but will read thoroughly later, and make comment. Thanks.
venere08: Hi Jan,
Possibly because he may have been, or still was, a cheater himself, and therefore knew exactly how easy it COULD be for you to cheat on him.
Possibly because he may have been, or still was, a cheater himself, and therefore knew exactly how easy it COULD be for you to cheat on him.
Well that´s the weird thing, he wasn´t, he never even looked at other women. He had only ever had two other relationsips, both long-term, but as I discovered later, his insane jealousy was the cause of the break-ups.
He was incredibly loyal and faithful, and I know that sounds strange, but it was true. Unfortunately, he was not able to trust, partly I believe because his father left his mother for another woman when he was young, virtually unheard of in Spain in those days. He became the father figure to six sisters.
He was 11 years older than me, which may also have a bearing on his possessiveness.
Quite crazy actually. I had to go to the courts in the end to stop him coming near me when I called time on the relationship.
Jan1305: Hello antcus, long time no see!
I don´t agree that marriage necessarily means being isolated from our friends. That certainly wasn´t the case for me, in fact this was only something I experienced after my divorce in a subsequent serious relationship which lasted 2 years. It was horrendous, the man was so jealous and persistently attempted to isolate me completely from anybody or anything he was not a direct part of. We did not live together, except the occasional weekend. but he had to know exactly where I was and what I was doing.
However, I do agree that it is difficult, but necessary to adapt and change somewhat after a long marriage or relationship. This is easier if both parties have agreed that the relationship is no longer working of course, as in my case.
Now I´m relatively happy being single, in fact I´m becoming more used to it. I have good friends and a social life so I am fortunate. However, I met somebody at 16, and was with him until my early forties, it was a crazy, exciting, extremely loving relationship for most of the time we were together (so much so that we married each other twice!) so being part of a couple is something I miss....but only sometimes!
I don´t agree that marriage necessarily means being isolated from our friends. That certainly wasn´t the case for me, in fact this was only something I experienced after my divorce in a subsequent serious relationship which lasted 2 years. It was horrendous, the man was so jealous and persistently attempted to isolate me completely from anybody or anything he was not a direct part of. We did not live together, except the occasional weekend. but he had to know exactly where I was and what I was doing.
However, I do agree that it is difficult, but necessary to adapt and change somewhat after a long marriage or relationship. This is easier if both parties have agreed that the relationship is no longer working of course, as in my case.
Now I´m relatively happy being single, in fact I´m becoming more used to it. I have good friends and a social life so I am fortunate. However, I met somebody at 16, and was with him until my early forties, it was a crazy, exciting, extremely loving relationship for most of the time we were together (so much so that we married each other twice!) so being part of a couple is something I miss....but only sometimes!
You could almost be describing my relationship. Because we did not live together, and because she had admirers wherever she went, I had to know what she was doing and where she was.
She was also 11 years younger than me, so much more alert and attractive.
We split because she felt too tied down in a relationship. She too said she wanted to be alone, with an occasional date every now and again.
My side was completely different. I wanted to be with her 24/7, and that scared her off. But what a pity! I thought I had found the love of a life. There was nothing I wanted to change in her, and we never quarelled or said one harsh word to each other.
Not even after the breakup, I think we are still the best of friends, but I can never tell how she feels in reality.
One thing that I always felt very uneasy about was her total secrecy. She always said that there were things that were not to be shared. That was the one thing that made me suffer in silence.
Anctus, that must have been very tough....I expect total honesty from my partner, and openness...anything less is just too little...
venere08: Today, I saw a 51 yr old woman, who wanted some help with overeating behaviour. She proceeded to say that her husband of 32 years simply left her one day, just over a year ago. She came home from work at 9pm, to find him missing, and some of his key possessions, gone. He returned for their daughter's birthday 2 days later, and told his wife, by the way, he had never loved her. He moved in with a younger woman, and has since had a string of women, settled with none of them.
This dear woman feels shattered and lost. She got married at 19, and moved from living with her parents, to living with her husband.
She was always referred to in life as 'Bob's wife', or the mother of their three children, now grown and left the nest.
She said she has no sense of who she is. Her husband never 'allowed' her to do anything that interested her. Now she simple feels lost. The only control she has felt she had over the entire ordeal, is applying for the divorce which was granted, much to husband's annoyance. She now has the task ahead of finding out who she is.
I cast my mind back to when I was married, eons ago. My then husband would not allow me to listen to music of my choice, he wanted me to dye my hair pitch black or blue black, and woe betide if I gained even only a few pounds, and so on. Always introduced as 'David's wife, then later, as 'Sebastian's mother'. I felt like jumping up and down and saying, 'Hey, I am me, you know... Fil'!!! After the split, I remember having to discover all over again, who I was, regain my sense of self, gain confidence all over again. Be happy again. And I did.
That got me thinking about what does define us. What gives us a sense of self?
It is sad, I think, when one person begins to dominate another.This dear woman feels shattered and lost. She got married at 19, and moved from living with her parents, to living with her husband.
She was always referred to in life as 'Bob's wife', or the mother of their three children, now grown and left the nest.
She said she has no sense of who she is. Her husband never 'allowed' her to do anything that interested her. Now she simple feels lost. The only control she has felt she had over the entire ordeal, is applying for the divorce which was granted, much to husband's annoyance. She now has the task ahead of finding out who she is.
I cast my mind back to when I was married, eons ago. My then husband would not allow me to listen to music of my choice, he wanted me to dye my hair pitch black or blue black, and woe betide if I gained even only a few pounds, and so on. Always introduced as 'David's wife, then later, as 'Sebastian's mother'. I felt like jumping up and down and saying, 'Hey, I am me, you know... Fil'!!! After the split, I remember having to discover all over again, who I was, regain my sense of self, gain confidence all over again. Be happy again. And I did.
That got me thinking about what does define us. What gives us a sense of self?
To my way of thinking - one puts themself into the Authority Figure and relegates the other into the Submissive One - and dominates until there is nothing left of the Individuality of the person they were originally attracted to (merely a Reflection of themself?) - and this is no longer attractive - so they leave to find a new Victim (?).
smoky: It is sad, I think, when one person begins to dominate another.
To my way of thinking - one puts themself into the Authority Figure and relegates the other into the Submissive One - and dominates until there is nothing left of the Individuality of the person they were originally attracted to (merely a Reflection of themself?) - and this is no longer attractive - so they leave to find a new Victim (?).
That is usually how that goes.To my way of thinking - one puts themself into the Authority Figure and relegates the other into the Submissive One - and dominates until there is nothing left of the Individuality of the person they were originally attracted to (merely a Reflection of themself?) - and this is no longer attractive - so they leave to find a new Victim (?).
I never referred to my ex wife as "my Wife" i always called her by her name no matter where i or we were.
smoky: It is sad, I think, when one person begins to dominate another.
To my way of thinking - one puts themself into the Authority Figure and relegates the other into the Submissive One - and dominates until there is nothing left of the Individuality of the person they were originally attracted to (merely a Reflection of themself?) - and this is no longer attractive - so they leave to find a new Victim (?).
To my way of thinking - one puts themself into the Authority Figure and relegates the other into the Submissive One - and dominates until there is nothing left of the Individuality of the person they were originally attracted to (merely a Reflection of themself?) - and this is no longer attractive - so they leave to find a new Victim (?).
I think you are spot on, smoky. Sad when that happens. I feel into that, and it is an insidious process, slow but sure, until as you said, that person's individuality is all but destroyed. I was able to recognise it before my sense of self was totally destroyed, but that was more because of the line of work I am in, than anything else. But looking back, there were very loud warning bells that I heard, but for various reasons, chose not to heed, but really should have. But I grew from all that, and probably wouldn't be the strong, resilient and happy person I am today.
My sons father got caught out a beauty once for his domineering ways. He liked my hair natural straight and would not "allow" me to Spiral Curl my hair.
His eldest son (my stepson) brought home his girlfriend for the weekend.....pretty girl, very dainty, with a huge mop of Spiral Curls (Frizzy Afro look). After greeting her he said (stupid man, not realising that not all hair is not permed!)..... "You have such lovely hair - why do you ruin it with those stupid curls?" ... To which she replied "This is my natural hair, I was born with this, sorry you dont like it"......!!!!
I think back to that remark of his and wonder if that ever taught him to NOT make personal remarks to people?
His eldest son (my stepson) brought home his girlfriend for the weekend.....pretty girl, very dainty, with a huge mop of Spiral Curls (Frizzy Afro look). After greeting her he said (stupid man, not realising that not all hair is not permed!)..... "You have such lovely hair - why do you ruin it with those stupid curls?" ... To which she replied "This is my natural hair, I was born with this, sorry you dont like it"......!!!!
I think back to that remark of his and wonder if that ever taught him to NOT make personal remarks to people?
This is a good question Venere08. I think that today, the majority of people come from backgrounds that were more or less dysfunctional. It means they attract similar people later on or behave abnormally themselves. By abnormally I mean excessive control and other extreme emotions. It's really like a pandemic because it takes years to fix such patterns and in my own life I have found that every man I lived with had really deep ingrained pathologies that there were neither willing nor able to change. I saw the whole constellation I was repeatedly in and simply decided that it mustn't happen again. I have worked hard to fix my own issues and see them for what they are, so I am hoping that it's time for change. So on top of all my other "requirements" I hope to find someone who has had a relatively sane childhood yet is able to somehow understand what I've been through. Not so much because I want to dwell on the past but it does after all define me to a large extent.
With my ex, my self-esteem was being systematically undermined and it has been hard not only to resist it but also to fix the damage that was being made. Still I have no real regrets because I did learn a lot about life and how people communicate. If nothing else it helps me in paying attention to warning signs.
In short; many of us go through the first part of life in agony, but if we can learn from our mistakes there is hope that the latter part will be much more balanced.
With my ex, my self-esteem was being systematically undermined and it has been hard not only to resist it but also to fix the damage that was being made. Still I have no real regrets because I did learn a lot about life and how people communicate. If nothing else it helps me in paying attention to warning signs.
In short; many of us go through the first part of life in agony, but if we can learn from our mistakes there is hope that the latter part will be much more balanced.
venere08: Today, I saw a 51 yr old woman, who wanted some help with overeating behaviour. She proceeded to say that her husband of 32 years simply left her one day, just over a year ago. She came home from work at 9pm, to find him missing, and some of his key possessions, gone. He returned for their daughter's birthday 2 days later, and told his wife, by the way, he had never loved her. He moved in with a younger woman, and has since had a string of women, settled with none of them.
This dear woman feels shattered and lost. She got married at 19, and moved from living with her parents, to living with her husband.
She was always referred to in life as 'Bob's wife', or the mother of their three children, now grown and left the nest.
She said she has no sense of who she is. Her husband never 'allowed' her to do anything that interested her. Now she simple feels lost. The only control she has felt she had over the entire ordeal, is applying for the divorce which was granted, much to husband's annoyance. She now has the task ahead of finding out who she is.
I cast my mind back to when I was married, eons ago. My then husband would not allow me to listen to music of my choice, he wanted me to dye my hair pitch black or blue black, and woe betide if I gained even only a few pounds, and so on. Always introduced as 'David's wife, then later, as 'Sebastian's mother'. I felt like jumping up and down and saying, 'Hey, I am me, you know... Fil'!!! After the split, I remember having to discover all over again, who I was, regain my sense of self, gain confidence all over again. Be happy again. And I did.
That got me thinking about what does define us. What gives us a sense of self?
This dear woman feels shattered and lost. She got married at 19, and moved from living with her parents, to living with her husband.
She was always referred to in life as 'Bob's wife', or the mother of their three children, now grown and left the nest.
She said she has no sense of who she is. Her husband never 'allowed' her to do anything that interested her. Now she simple feels lost. The only control she has felt she had over the entire ordeal, is applying for the divorce which was granted, much to husband's annoyance. She now has the task ahead of finding out who she is.
I cast my mind back to when I was married, eons ago. My then husband would not allow me to listen to music of my choice, he wanted me to dye my hair pitch black or blue black, and woe betide if I gained even only a few pounds, and so on. Always introduced as 'David's wife, then later, as 'Sebastian's mother'. I felt like jumping up and down and saying, 'Hey, I am me, you know... Fil'!!! After the split, I remember having to discover all over again, who I was, regain my sense of self, gain confidence all over again. Be happy again. And I did.
That got me thinking about what does define us. What gives us a sense of self?
there is a point here, that hasn't been observed..
she was born therefore in 1958 and married in 1977.
wasn't that much more arguably traditional then ?....that the ' male' was the provider and the wife the ' little woman at home ' ?
it doesn't excuse domineering or being ' bob's wife' only.far from it !
but it was more the way of the world then; not so now, thank god !
so what defines us ?
knowledge, confidence, experience, individuality ,self belief and esteem....?
add love to it, and close friends, to complete the ' recipe '....
to find herself again ?
in 51 years she has got to have some good points. thats the focus! the problem break ups and acrimony is the negatitvity that one feels . the habit has to be broken. think positive !
a good day tomorrow is just a smile away ?
"What defines us in a relationship?"
IT'S SIMPLE:
1. The wine we drink
2. The wine we share
3. The wine we 'put aside' for a special occasion!
IT'S SIMPLE:
1. The wine we drink
2. The wine we share
3. The wine we 'put aside' for a special occasion!
iamamm: there is a point here, that hasn't been observed..
she was born therefore in 1958 and married in 1977.
wasn't that much more arguably traditional then ?....that the ' male' was the provider and the wife the ' little woman at home ' ?
it doesn't excuse domineering or being ' bob's wife' only.far from it !
but it was more the way of the world then; not so now, thank god !
she was born therefore in 1958 and married in 1977.
wasn't that much more arguably traditional then ?....that the ' male' was the provider and the wife the ' little woman at home ' ?
it doesn't excuse domineering or being ' bob's wife' only.far from it !
but it was more the way of the world then; not so now, thank god !
I think there's a lot of truth in this - though I think it goes deeper. It's not just modern society - even most of the mainstream religions tend to be male dominated/focussed - and that reflects on through the society. While the womens' rights movement has helped a lot in many respects, it's now heading in another potentially (to my mind) wrong direction in putting women and men in direct competition with each other.
If we look, say, at animal societies - they don't have these problems because generally male and female have different, but equally important and valuable, roles. I am a pagan, and one thing that drew me to this spiritual path is the central concept of both male and female deities of equal and complementary power and character. (Whether you consider them to be two aspects of one "spirit", or two separate entities is then personal choice - but male and female aspects are complementary and in balance.)
The male dominates female principle is, in modern society, usually considered completely morally unacceptable - but the alternative of female and male competing has led to the highest divorce rates ever and doen't seem to work either.
When I look at my friends over the years, married and not - the successful relationships have been where neither party dominates the other, but they built complementary roles in the relationship in a way that works for them. Women are as individual and diverse as men - and stereotyped roles are never going to work - each couple needs to find the right balance for them. The failed relationships have usually been where one or both parties try too hard to conform to the expectations of their partner or society in general.
Where society could help (though this is being very idealistic and totally unrealistic!!) would be in creating a framework where this would be encouraged, rather than wanting to put everyone in "boxes" and pressuring them to conform to "average" or "normal". Maye in another few hundred or even thousand years!
I feel for the 51 year old and hope she finds a positive way through.
Rhiannon3: I think there's a lot of truth in this - though I think it goes deeper. It's not just modern society - even most of the mainstream religions tend to be male dominated/focussed - and that reflects on through the society. While the womens' rights movement has helped a lot in many respects, it's now heading in another potentially (to my mind) wrong direction in putting women and men in direct competition with each other.
If we look, say, at animal societies - they don't have these problems because generally male and female have different, but equally important and valuable, roles. I am a pagan, and one thing that drew me to this spiritual path is the central concept of both male and female deities of equal and complementary power and character. (Whether you consider them to be two aspects of one "spirit", or two separate entities is then personal choice - but male and female aspects are complementary and in balance.)
The male dominates female principle is, in modern society, usually considered completely morally unacceptable - but the alternative of female and male competing has led to the highest divorce rates ever and doen't seem to work either.
When I look at my friends over the years, married and not - the successful relationships have been where neither party dominates the other, but they built complementary roles in the relationship in a way that works for them. Women are as individual and diverse as men - and stereotyped roles are never going to work - each couple needs to find the right balance for them. The failed relationships have usually been where one or both parties try too hard to conform to the expectations of their partner or society in general.
Where society could help (though this is being very idealistic and totally unrealistic!!) would be in creating a framework where this would be encouraged, rather than wanting to put everyone in "boxes" and pressuring them to conform to "average" or "normal". Maye in another few hundred or even thousand years!
I feel for the 51 year old and hope she finds a positive way through.
If we look, say, at animal societies - they don't have these problems because generally male and female have different, but equally important and valuable, roles. I am a pagan, and one thing that drew me to this spiritual path is the central concept of both male and female deities of equal and complementary power and character. (Whether you consider them to be two aspects of one "spirit", or two separate entities is then personal choice - but male and female aspects are complementary and in balance.)
The male dominates female principle is, in modern society, usually considered completely morally unacceptable - but the alternative of female and male competing has led to the highest divorce rates ever and doen't seem to work either.
When I look at my friends over the years, married and not - the successful relationships have been where neither party dominates the other, but they built complementary roles in the relationship in a way that works for them. Women are as individual and diverse as men - and stereotyped roles are never going to work - each couple needs to find the right balance for them. The failed relationships have usually been where one or both parties try too hard to conform to the expectations of their partner or society in general.
Where society could help (though this is being very idealistic and totally unrealistic!!) would be in creating a framework where this would be encouraged, rather than wanting to put everyone in "boxes" and pressuring them to conform to "average" or "normal". Maye in another few hundred or even thousand years!
I feel for the 51 year old and hope she finds a positive way through.
A good post. I agree with you.
I certainly have become quite uncompromising in some of my "requirements" because I know what defines me and so I have some incling as to what would define me in a good relationship as well - am certainly open to life's surprises since we cannot control everything, but we can direct our intentions in a certain direction and IMO that's a very important thing to do. The goal should certainly be a well balanced relationship that is secure enough to give you the space and time to pursue your own things while at the same time the time that is being shared is real quality time with lots of interest, love and concern for the other. In short, this can only happen if both are secure with themselves and know who they are and what they want. So some people who break up do need a few years to find that out first.
symbolistartist: I certainly have become quite uncompromising in some of my "requirements" because I know what defines me and so I have some incling as to what would define me in a good relationship as well - am certainly open to life's surprises since we cannot control everything, but we can direct our intentions in a certain direction and IMO that's a very important thing to do. The goal should certainly be a well balanced relationship that is secure enough to give you the space and time to pursue your own things while at the same time the time that is being shared is real quality time with lots of interest, love and concern for the other. In short, this can only happen if both are secure with themselves and know who they are and what they want. So some people who break up do need a few years to find that out first.
Excellent!
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- makeover
- s*xual skills
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- Gal / sdarlagg passed away on April 10, 2024
This dear woman feels shattered and lost. She got married at 19, and moved from living with her parents, to living with her husband.
She was always referred to in life as 'Bob's wife', or the mother of their three children, now grown and left the nest.
She said she has no sense of who she is. Her husband never 'allowed' her to do anything that interested her. Now she simple feels lost. The only control she has felt she had over the entire ordeal, is applying for the divorce which was granted, much to husband's annoyance. She now has the task ahead of finding out who she is.
I cast my mind back to when I was married, eons ago. My then husband would not allow me to listen to music of my choice, he wanted me to dye my hair pitch black or blue black, and woe betide if I gained even only a few pounds, and so on. Always introduced as 'David's wife, then later, as 'Sebastian's mother'. I felt like jumping up and down and saying, 'Hey, I am me, you know... Fil'!!!
That got me thinking about what does define us. What gives us a sense of self?