wooffyClose to Antwerp, Antwerpen Belgium832 posts
cristina: He didn't fail to safe his friend from dying! Where did you get that from, guilty you? Now Gilly needs to feel a bit of resentment? Don't make me laugh here!
To start with I don't think that Gilly needs to feel resentment or guilt just as I don't need to feel guilty about thinking the way I do. He, as smoky said could do nothing to stop his friend from drinking. He tried but failed. I said "I failed to help him conquer his addiction... would have been better because it is the way it is. Nobody can help a person conquer his or her addiction except themselves. But this does not mean that if they make the choice not to, that I have to agree with it. To feel resentment you have to make mistakes. He has no reason to feel resentment except the way he started this thread as I said with my friend "the alcoholic". I think as I said or at least I thought I said quite clearly. To make you laugh I do not see this as a laughing matter somehow. A man in Mechelen in Belgium drove into a girl on a bicycle. She was injured. A broken leg and a few other minor injuries. He was intoxicated. His license was taken away. a month later he plowed into two other girls on bicycle killing one and badly injuring the other. He was drunk again. Anybody that says that alcoholism is an illness and should be accepted as such try to explain that to the girl's family. To reiterate on Smoky's answer to her brothers illness she said that she drove him home when he couldn't drive himself. Meaning that he drove probably many times drunk. So he could have been the guy in Mechelen. By the way my friend that took this picture died in a traffic accident after having about 10 drinks. Not one of us could deter him from stopping.
And another weird case of a drunken driver ...... a family member went out one evening for a business dinner, drank too much, decided to leave his car and walk home .... and a drunk driver drove onto the pavement and killed him! He left his young wife and little son of 2yrs old.
wooffy: To start with I don't think that Gilly needs to feel resentment or guilt just as I don't need to feel guilty about thinking the way I do. He, as smoky said could do nothing to stop his friend from drinking. He tried but failed. I said "I failed to help him conquer his addiction... would have been better because it is the way it is. Nobody can help a person conquer his or her addiction except themselves. But this does not mean that if they make the choice not to, that I have to agree with it. To feel resentment you have to make mistakes. He has no reason to feel resentment except the way he started this thread as I said with my friend "the alcoholic". I think as I said or at least I thought I said quite clearly. To make you laugh I do not see this as a laughing matter somehow. A man in Mechelen in Belgium drove into a girl on a bicycle. She was injured. A broken leg and a few other minor injuries. He was intoxicated. His license was taken away. a month later he plowed into two other girls on bicycle killing one and badly injuring the other. He was drunk again. Anybody that says that alcoholism is an illness and should be accepted as such try to explain that to the girl's family. To reiterate on Smoky's answer to her brothers illness she said that she drove him home when he couldn't drive himself. Meaning that he drove probably many times drunk. So he could have been the guy in Mechelen. By the way my friend that took this picture died in a traffic accident after having about 10 drinks. Not one of us could deter him from stopping.
okay ... so are you saying .. 'Gilly's mate died ... but fuq it cos there are drunk drivers in the world' .. ?
I think Gilly was saying he was feeling bad cos a mate of his had died .. for whatever reason ..
if somebody dies, do you usually analyse the cause before offering condolances to the people left behind grieving? ..
wooffyClose to Antwerp, Antwerpen Belgium832 posts
guiriman: okay ... so are you saying .. 'Gilly's mate died ... but fuq it cos there are drunk drivers in the world' .. ?
I think Gilly was saying he was feeling bad cos a mate of his had died .. for whatever reason ..
if somebody dies, do you usually analyse the cause before offering condolances to the people left behind grieving? ..
one more time the thing that annoyed me was "the alcoholic" that he is grieving and that his friend died from alcohol is not the point but why put "the alcoholic" in quotation marks this seems to me just disrespectful. But I guess I am the only one that thinks this way.
RayfromUSA: I believe that Gilly, the best friend, would be best qualified to know what his friend would appreciate.
And if it were me dying from of the effects of alcohol, I would certainly want my death to serve as a warning to others so that they might learn to live for something, rather than die for nothing.
Probably ... Gilly, the best friend, would be best qualified to know what his friend would appreciate. But since he posted it in an open forum, we are free to say what we think about it. And I said, "IF I WERE HIS BEST FRIEND" and I mean if I were in his best friend's shoes.
For me, if my best friend is an alcoholic, even if he is still alive, I will be the first one to be discrete about it. When he dies, I will not be proclaiming it to the world that he, "the alcoholic" died of the effects of his addiction? In honor of his memory, I will be quiet about it and never even mention it to anyone. For me doing otherwise will be a complete betrayal of friendship and trust.
And as for using his death as a warning to others, don't you think people here are so dumb not to know about what the effects of alcoholism are on a person?
People who drink do not stop drinking because they are told somebody died of liver cirrhosis. They know that! People with alcohol addiction drink because they have a problem, something is troubling them that they cannot get rid of, so they drink because they want to drown their blues away. And people like them need love and understanding, not a sermon or a lecture. I could say more, but I stop here ..
wooffy: one more time the thing that annoyed me was "the alcoholic" that he is grieving and that his friend died from alcohol is not the point but why put "the alcoholic" in quotation marks this seems to me just disrespectful. But I guess I am the only one that thinks this way.
ah ... I see what you mean ..
well I've never seen Gilly be anything but totally respectful to anyone and everyone .. so quotes or not I think he didn't mean anything by it .. and also I think that he was maybe looking for little bit of support after having lost a close friend that others termed merely "the alcoholic" .. hence the quotes .. to say that Gilly's failure to help his friend kick the addiction was/should have been of upmost concern to Gilly seemed a bit harsh to me .. but I'm sure that's just a misunderstanding of what you were saying ..
cristinaLisbon, North Holland Netherlands17,243 posts
It's not about "He, the alcoholic" but "my alcoholic friend" so we know who he's referring to. As I said, he'd mention THIS friend to us several times. In this line, this was the only way we'd know who he was referring to.
cristinaLisbon, North Holland Netherlands17,243 posts
And, could also be that he had that nickname as well. No judging or considerations needed! No doubt that we aren't by any hypotisis offended nor hurt. Gilly is in pain
wooffyClose to Antwerp, Antwerpen Belgium832 posts
guiriman: ah ... I see what you mean ..
well I've never seen Gilly be anything but totally respectful to anyone and everyone .. so quotes or not I think he didn't mean anything by it .. and also I think that he was maybe looking for little bit of support after having lost a close friend that others termed merely "the alcoholic" .. hence the quotes .. to say that Gilly's failure to help his friend kick the addiction was/should have been of upmost concern to Gilly seemed a bit harsh to me .. but I'm sure that's just a misunderstanding of what you were saying ..
enough said then. I couldn't get the quotation marks but if it is meant in that respect it puts a totally different light on the subject. A misunderstanding like so many times when you can't see the people you are talking to
wtf .. can't we just say 'sorry to hear it'? .. do we have to ask for details and weigh up the pros and cons and rights and wrongs before offering sympathy to somebody? ..
guiriman: wtf .. can't we just say 'sorry to hear it'? .. do we have to ask for details and weigh up the pros and cons and rights and wrongs before offering sympathy to somebody? ..
sorry Woofy .. that wasn't aimed at you, mate .. just in general .. I wrote it before you posted ..
guiriman: wtf .. can't we just say 'sorry to hear it'? .. do we have to ask for details and weigh up the pros and cons and rights and wrongs before offering sympathy to somebody? ..
Well, you do as you please, Guiri. You don't have to insist on telling us what to think or to do ourselves. Just like you are, we are entitled to our own opinion. You have offered your condolences, be it. In my case I won't because I don't think he deserves it. If I do, that will be total hypocrisy and I cannot tolerate that, least of all from myself.
wooffyClose to Antwerp, Antwerpen Belgium832 posts
guiriman: sorry Woofy .. that wasn't aimed at you, mate .. just in general .. I wrote it before you posted ..
I should have not made the mistake of butting into somebody's thread that I don't know. It does not matter how a person dies you always try to think how could this have been prevented. A life that is snuffed out too soon is always a waste it does not matter how it happens.
Amaryllis: Well, you do as you please, Guiri. You don't have to insist on telling us what to think or to do ourselves. Just like you are, we are entitled to our own opinion. You have offered your condolences, be it. In my case I won't because I don't think he deserves it. If I do, that will be total hypocrisy and I cannot tolerate that, least of all from myself.
we're just different cloth, Ama .. I wouldn't dream of telling you what to think or do .. but like you just said .. I'm entitled to my opinion ... or is that just you too? ..
Amaryllis: Well, you do as you please, Guiri. You don't have to insist on telling us what to think or to do ourselves. Just like you are, we are entitled to our own opinion. You have offered your condolences, be it. In my case I won't because I don't think he deserves it. If I do, that will be total hypocrisy and I cannot tolerate that, least of all from myself.
Thinking of you in your time of grief. I do remember you talking of your friend and how hard you tried to change his path. But people can only change themselves. Now, from his resting place, be assured he appreciates all your efforts and concern. He is at peace now.
sasseezlakes entrance, Victoria Australia3,150 posts
It does not matter how a person dies you always try to think how could this have been prevented. A life that is snuffed out too soon is always a waste it does not matter how it happens.
so true woofy in agreement ..every life i precious
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To start with I don't think that Gilly needs to feel resentment or guilt just as I don't need to feel guilty about thinking the way I do. He, as smoky said could do nothing to stop his friend from drinking. He tried but failed. I said "I failed to help him conquer his addiction... would have been better because it is the way it is. Nobody can help a person conquer his or her addiction except themselves. But this does not mean that if they make the choice not to, that I have to agree with it. To feel resentment you have to make mistakes. He has no reason to feel resentment except the way he started this thread as I said with my friend "the alcoholic".
I think as I said or at least I thought I said quite clearly.
To make you laugh I do not see this as a laughing matter somehow.
A man in Mechelen in Belgium drove into a girl on a bicycle. She was injured. A broken leg and a few other minor injuries. He was intoxicated. His license was taken away. a month later he plowed into two other girls on bicycle killing one and badly injuring the other. He was drunk again. Anybody that says that alcoholism is an illness and should be accepted as such try to explain that to the girl's family. To reiterate on Smoky's answer to her brothers illness she said that she drove him home when he couldn't drive himself. Meaning that he drove probably many times drunk. So he could have been the guy in Mechelen.
By the way my friend that took this picture died in a traffic accident after having about 10 drinks. Not one of us could deter him from stopping.