Faith healing ( Archived) (399)

I'm not questioning your education or intelligence at all theoldestdear, just saying you don't know the fundamentals behind quantum consciousness and how healing is related to that. I can only go by your posts in this thread.




Yes, actually it should read 'alternative hypothesis/explanation/opinion or idea'. It's really not employed to reinforce that it is a secret, just a breakthrough and a new direction in science since they have patients who have vouched for them. Only you perceive it that way.

Lipton uses Quantum Mechanics to explain things directly at the level of cells or biology is a categorical error. Cells are stochastic but they're not probabilistic systems like subatomic particles.

It is important to remember that Quantum entanglement occurs under very specific conditions, and even if it happened in biological organisms (maybe by some incident of radioactive decay?), it's completely irrelevant to the biological processes.

Cells have been shown to communicate only via chemicals mainly protein molecules but alos steroids. The only incident of quantum tunneling has been demonstrated in an enzyme that tunnels a single proton a couple of angstroms (but that's nothing new, we know all about the wave-particle duality) . Nothing about quantum entanglement is biologically relevant. Nothing about quantum mechanics is biologically relevant.

Quantum mechanics describes the behavior of systems at the submolecular and subatomic level, and doesn't say anything about biology.


As for ipton's ideas pertaining to epigenetics, it completely escapes me how it has anything to do with spirituality. Yes cells are programmable using epigenetics, just as they are programmable using genetics. Epigenetics is merely the study of proteins that bind to the DNA and affect its expression. It's in no way suprabiological and does not require any kind of metaphysical imploration.


Lipton's basis of of explaining the palcebo effect is clearly dependent on genetic determinism, however, there is no such thing as genetic determinism, that's a bit of a strawman for functional genomics.

There are things you can't escape or change unless you do changes at the level of the genome or epigenome, but that by no means implies that everything about an organism can be genetically predetermined.

What's predetermined is the range of possible phenotypes for every trait within a range of "normal conditions". For example, if you have a mutation in the myostatin gene that leads to a decrease of function (myostatin inhibits muscle growth), you will end up having more muscle mass than average people. It doesn't mean that you will necessarily be ripped, but you will much more easily put on muscle mass than anyone who doesn't have that mutation, all other things equal. If you have a mutation that affects the myostatin function more severely, you will have gigantism and excessive muscle mass deposition.

Remember, Most if not all traits are genetically predisposed, the extent of predisposition depending on the exact trait, when it appears during development, and how the environment affects it.

You do know that the people "selected" to be pushed over are ringers who are paid for their little performances? Those faith-healing shows are all staged and carefully scripted. They've been exposed as frauds and charlatans a good many times.

"Faith healing" is just an evil way to scam sick people out of money.

You got that right!

Huh? He is trying to suggest that. In Lipton's book, he says that that "genes and DNA do not control our biology; that instead DNA is controlled by signals from outside the cell, including the energetic messages emanating from our positive and negative thoughts." Many scholars on the cutting edge are saying that Dr. Lipton’s ideas of the latest and best research in cell biology and quantum physics is being hailed as a major breakthrough showing that our bodies can be changed as we retrain our thinking.



Not according to the emerging sciences. The classical view will soon be shattered, and the emerging sciences are trying to show that there is no "separation" and that entanglement is completely relevant to the biological processes of everything on Earth. It's a non-physical idea and based on a holographic model.





Actually it does. Enter: Robert Lanza and Biocentrism! Dig into it and come back with your thoughts.



It's not about spirituality, it's about an emerging science that may help us in the future. It does however, align with idea's of biocentrism with similar ancient systems of knowledge found in Hinduism. The idea is that DNA may be affected by non-physical features and that our cells are senders and receivers of information which suggests that we can control our health in ways that will shatter the old paradigm of healing.



You went off topic in relation to our discussion. This has nothing to do with healing.

In any case, I know it's hard to imagine new frontiers that may shatter old paradigms. We like to think nothing will ever change and that anything foreign to our paradigm is just wrong and impossible. This is just simple expansion of who we think we are.

That's not the same at all silly You are tying to connect two different things to suite your empty and subjective opinion.