Big Bang,inflation and the singularity (117)
must the speed of light go back to it's set finite speed again when not being impeded ?
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RDM59: must the speed of light go back to it's set finite speed again when not being impeded ?
what if it is being pulled not pushed...or maybe both....------ This thread is Archived ------
RDM59: Ahh, I have very fond memories of this post indeed ooby, twas what made my sign up to CS in order to participate, didn't come for any of this lovey dovey hocus pocus stuff ....
You wrote :
We don't have the ability to measure the speed of light over a billion years or a billion light years distance and we probably never will. Is it possible that the light emanating from a distant galaxy is acted upon by the gravitational pull of the very galaxy it came from? Could this be the mechanism by which the light looses energy and slows down the longer it's forward motion is acted upon? Is it possible that the light loses energy over billions of years or is the energy of the light sapped by traveling through the matrix of gravity which permeates space?
I see your point about how gravity can change the direction of light and perhaps slow it down but when this light from far off galaxies reaches us is it not measured as traveling at C, the known constant, ie, 186K m/s. and not say 100,000 miles per sec.
If is slowed down at points on it's journey how does it pick up speed again if assuming what I'm proposing is correct. Does dark matter play a part ...
Excellent question! All speed of light measurements I've heard of measure light from nearby sources ie sun, artificial light source etc. Nobody has ever measured the speed of light from a distant galaxy. How would you? What they measure is the red shift and jump to a conclusion.You wrote :
We don't have the ability to measure the speed of light over a billion years or a billion light years distance and we probably never will. Is it possible that the light emanating from a distant galaxy is acted upon by the gravitational pull of the very galaxy it came from? Could this be the mechanism by which the light looses energy and slows down the longer it's forward motion is acted upon? Is it possible that the light loses energy over billions of years or is the energy of the light sapped by traveling through the matrix of gravity which permeates space?
I see your point about how gravity can change the direction of light and perhaps slow it down but when this light from far off galaxies reaches us is it not measured as traveling at C, the known constant, ie, 186K m/s. and not say 100,000 miles per sec.
If is slowed down at points on it's journey how does it pick up speed again if assuming what I'm proposing is correct. Does dark matter play a part ...
Dark matter, if it exists, remember it's just a theory, may indeed play a role in slowing light down if it has gravitational force. If dark matter has mass, it has gravity.
If I'm correct, distant galaxies may not be as distant as we were lead to believe.
I gotta go "Pestle a Post" back later.
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ooby_dooby: Excellent question! All speed of light measurements I've heard of measure light from nearby sources ie sun, artificial light source etc. Nobody has ever measured the speed of light from a distant galaxy. How would you? What they measure is the red shift and jump to a conclusion.
Dark matter, if it exists, remember it's just a theory, may indeed play a role in slowing light down if it has gravitational force. If dark matter has mass, it has gravity.
If I'm correct, distant galaxies may not be as distant as we were lead to believe.
I gotta go "Pestle a Post" back later.
I will add to your theory. and i have said this before on another thread. there is no way to measure that distance because you have no access to it. If there is no access to both end of a measuring point measurment is then impossible. How can science prove that the cabon 14 test is true? how can they prove that nothing in the elements occured over the years that altered what they measure therefore giving falls readings as millions of years. How do we know that small details shifted to the right each day didn't over a number of shifts give a greater error than that which they are able to understand?Dark matter, if it exists, remember it's just a theory, may indeed play a role in slowing light down if it has gravitational force. If dark matter has mass, it has gravity.
If I'm correct, distant galaxies may not be as distant as we were lead to believe.
I gotta go "Pestle a Post" back later.
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davpk10: what if it is being pulled not pushed...or maybe both....
I ain't get a scooby doo mate ...
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Duke1010: I will add to your theory. and i have said this before on another thread. there is no way to measure that distance because you have no access to it. If there is no access to both end of a measuring point measurment is then impossible. How can science prove that the cabon 14 test is true? how can they prove that nothing in the elements occured over the years that altered what they measure therefore giving falls readings as millions of years. How do we know that small details shifted to the right each day didn't over a number of shifts give a greater error than that which they are able to understand?
Who does C-14 Testing for Millions of years?------ This thread is Archived ------
ooby_dooby: Excellent question! All speed of light measurements I've heard of measure light from nearby sources ie sun, artificial light source etc. Nobody has ever measured the speed of light from a distant galaxy. How would you? What they measure is the red shift and jump to a conclusion.
Dark matter, if it exists, remember it's just a theory, may indeed play a role in slowing light down if it has gravitational force. If dark matter has mass, it has gravity.
If I'm correct, distant galaxies may not be as distant as we were lead to believe.
I gotta go "Pestle a Post" back later.
Dark matter, if it exists, remember it's just a theory, may indeed play a role in slowing light down if it has gravitational force. If dark matter has mass, it has gravity.
If I'm correct, distant galaxies may not be as distant as we were lead to believe.
I gotta go "Pestle a Post" back later.
I wasn't aware that it could not be measured. I had assumed the photons from these objects could be isolated and their speed measured passing between 2 points, even at the earths surface, with allowance made for the slowing down of our atmosphere.
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ooby_dooby: You don't get it do you?
The Big Bang Theory is .....a Theory One I personally don't accept but that is my right, my freedom. You, as a believer don't have the freedom to deny anything the religious community, the church, the pope or whatever authority you follow tells you. If they say jump, you are obliged to ask "how high".
It's ironic but the religious community talks about the "Big Bang" more than scientists do, as though they believe the scientific community has deemed the big bang as the final word on the origin of the universe, they haven't! It is only the latest theory and it is far from the last word on the subject.
The beauty of doubting the big bang theory is, it eliminates the question "What went before the big bang? If you accept as probable, the "Steady State Theory as I do, then the universe had no beginning and it will have no end. It just is.
The Big Bang Theory is .....a Theory One I personally don't accept but that is my right, my freedom. You, as a believer don't have the freedom to deny anything the religious community, the church, the pope or whatever authority you follow tells you. If they say jump, you are obliged to ask "how high".
It's ironic but the religious community talks about the "Big Bang" more than scientists do, as though they believe the scientific community has deemed the big bang as the final word on the origin of the universe, they haven't! It is only the latest theory and it is far from the last word on the subject.
The beauty of doubting the big bang theory is, it eliminates the question "What went before the big bang? If you accept as probable, the "Steady State Theory as I do, then the universe had no beginning and it will have no end. It just is.
Who or what created the big bang theory? This would be a good question for the scientific community to prove and then explain..don't you think?
As for what the religious community, expecfialy the pope, has to say I would definitely not listen to or accept. The religious community is not the final authority on anything, especially the Pope.
God and God alone is the only authority that I will listen too.
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Duke1010: I will add to your theory. and i have said this before on another thread. there is no way to measure that distance because you have no access to it. If there is no access to both end of a measuring point measurment is then impossible. How can science prove that the cabon 14 test is true? how can they prove that nothing in the elements occured over the years that altered what they measure therefore giving falls readings as millions of years. How do we know that small details shifted to the right each day didn't over a number of shifts give a greater error than that which they are able to understand?
Astronomers use "Parallax to measure great distances of nearby stars but even this fails when confronted with intergalactic distances. The only yardstick they have in this case is to measure the red shift but like I said this is flawed.BTW, I see where you're going with Carbon-14 and I aint biting.
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Faithfulness: Who or what created the big bang theory? This would be a good question for the scientific community to prove and then explain..don't you think?
As for what the religious community, expecfialy the pope, has to say I would definitely not listen to or accept. The religious community is not the final authority on anything, especially the Pope.
God and God alone is the only authority that I will listen too.
This is his voice. Can you hear it?As for what the religious community, expecfialy the pope, has to say I would definitely not listen to or accept. The religious community is not the final authority on anything, especially the Pope.
God and God alone is the only authority that I will listen too.
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I agree with it all except the last line.
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RDM59: I wasn't aware that it could not be measured. I had assumed the photons from these objects could be isolated and their speed measured passing between 2 points, even at the earths surface, with allowance made for the slowing down of our atmosphere.
I'm not saying it can't be measured I just don't know of anybody who ever actually tried. Maybe they could do a timed speed measurement between the moon & the space station. Suppose they did that and found that the light was only going 180K MPS that still doesn't mean that the source is moving away from us or the light was slowed down by gravity. We may never know.------ This thread is Archived ------
ooby_dooby: I am in the slowing speed of light camp but NOT based on the link you posted. Barry Setterfield is a quack. He postulates that the speed of light itself is losing energy over time. This is nonsense and all he's doing is muddying up the waters with his BS. There is a strong religious undertone to his writings.
Light that is traveling from a distant galaxy is being acted on by a matrix of gravity which in my view is taking energy from it which is causing it to travel slower thus leading to the wrong conclusion that the source is receding. I spelled it out years ago in this thread. I don't feel like typing it all again.
Light that is traveling from a distant galaxy is being acted on by a matrix of gravity which in my view is taking energy from it which is causing it to travel slower thus leading to the wrong conclusion that the source is receding. I spelled it out years ago in this thread. I don't feel like typing it all again.
I didn't mean to support Satterfield per se. I don't even know who he is. I just searched for a site with the "slowing speed of light hypothesis". As far as I'm concerned the three general theories are all saying the same thing but from a different perspective. And all of them are too big to ever matter to us anyhow. We'll pollute or starve ourselves to death before we ever need to worry about things beyond our own planet.
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Nakedpackage: My neighbour had a puppy without an arsehole.......
He's not long for this world then.
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ooby_dooby: I'm not saying it can't be measured I just don't know of anybody who ever actually tried. Maybe they could do a timed speed measurement between the moon & the space station. Suppose they did that and found that the light was only going 180K MPS that still doesn't mean that the source is moving away from us or the light was slowed down by gravity. We may never know.
I think I know what you are saying, so if those photons from a far off galaxy are measured arriving here at the finite speed of light we can then only speculate and theorize about what has happened to them during their long journey. What are the space/time warpages or gravitational eddys they have had to encounter and circumnavigate in order to get here, has it slowed down, has it sped up, it all sounds so unfathomable.
Energy has mass therefore photons have mass, as I understand it so light creates it's own gravity field and therefore has it's own influence on itself and what I don't get it what happens when light hits light ? It must be zipping around in all directions, coliding or merging and influencing each other.
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ChasingCars: Then why did Allah choose to let fundamentalist American Christians evolve?
Maybe he was bored
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Light that is traveling from a distant galaxy is being acted on by a matrix of gravity which in my view is taking energy from it which is causing it to travel slower thus leading to the wrong conclusion that the source is receding. I spelled it out years ago in this thread. I don't feel like typing it all again.
Ahh, I have very fond memories of this post indeed ooby, twas what made my sign up to CS in order to participate, didn't come for any of this lovey dovey hocus pocus stuff ....
You wrote :
We don't have the ability to measure the speed of light over a billion years or a billion light years distance and we probably never will. Is it possible that the light emanating from a distant galaxy is acted upon by the gravitational pull of the very galaxy it came from? Could this be the mechanism by which the light looses energy and slows down the longer it's forward motion is acted upon? Is it possible that the light loses energy over billions of years or is the energy of the light sapped by traveling through the matrix of gravity which permeates space?
I see your point about how gravity can change the direction of light and perhaps slow it down but when this light from far off galaxies reaches us is it not measured as traveling at C, the known constant, ie, 186K m/s. and not say 100,000 miles per sec.
If is slowed down at points on it's journey how does it pick up speed again if assuming what I'm proposing is correct. Does dark matter play a part ...