Restrictions on Habeas Corpus ( Archived) (73)

Feb 19, 2011 11:38 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
gardenhackle
gardenhacklegardenhackleStratford, Connecticut USA55 Threads 9 Polls 2,067 Posts
Trealach01: They'd have a tough job participating any further - they all died in the plane crash. If America want's to win friends and influence people ..... then stay the hell out of other countries affairs and politics - or suffer the consequences - America's opinion is irrelevant. Since America is so deep into espionage in other countries, then perhaps Europe and Arabic countries should treat all American tourists as 'spies' and incarcerate them in Auswitch, without trial or rights, until the US desists from it's espionage activities, after all Europe and the Arabic countries have the right to defend themselves against such outrageous activities.


You have a right to your opinion. And between your opinion and America's opinion, guess which one is TRULY inconsequential. rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
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Feb 19, 2011 11:40 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
mastic55
mastic55mastic55Long Island, New York USA167 Threads 6,859 Posts
Detaining it's "Citizens" should not apply to immigration because they are not citizens.
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Feb 19, 2011 11:41 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
gardenhackle: You have a right to your opinion. And between your opinion and America's opinion, guess which one is TRULY inconsequential.


Without stating the obvious ..... AMERCIA'S oipnion!!rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
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Feb 19, 2011 11:46 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
patmac
patmacpatmacglasgow, Strathclyde, Scotland UK730 Threads 6 Polls 9,662 Posts
Colleene1024: So, once an individual is captured and brought to the countries own soil that was under attack, should they be given the Habeous Corpus right?


Sorry Collene I don't see the point.

If an individual is captured in a war he/she may be taken and held as a POW.Then held as according to the Geneva convention.
Questioning them according to the Geneva convention by all means.

But, the Rendition of non combatants and often innocent folk is wrong.

Hold them until cleared in the country the were captured and then release or jail them according to the law of the country concerned.

That is the only decent and fair way to do it.
grin cheers
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Feb 19, 2011 11:47 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
Colleene1024
Colleene1024Colleene1024West Warwick, Rhode Island USA10 Threads 1,225 Posts
mastic55: Detaining it's "Citizens" should not apply to immigration because they are not citizens.


Via legal precedent, Habeas Corpus protections extend to foreign nationals detained in the US. Furthermore, to focus solely on the immigration status and purported guilt of suspected terrorists ignore the fact that Habeas Corpus exists to protect us all. Eliminating the rights for “bad people” necessarily eliminates them for the innocent as well.

IMHO as always conversing
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Feb 19, 2011 11:48 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
gardenhackle
gardenhacklegardenhackleStratford, Connecticut USA55 Threads 9 Polls 2,067 Posts
gleneagle: Of course when John Walker joined the Taliban the United States was not at war with them. Just to clear a point in my mind;Did the US actually declare war?


Declarations of war aren't usually done any more, nor are they a necessary protocol. I did a little looking into this some time ago and there haven't been any "declarations of war" in quite some time even though there have certainly been wars and the wars would have been governed by the Geneva convention regardless.
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Feb 19, 2011 11:50 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
Colleene1024
Colleene1024Colleene1024West Warwick, Rhode Island USA10 Threads 1,225 Posts
patmac: Sorry Collene I don't see the point.

If an individual is captured in a war he/she may be taken and held as a POW.Then held as according to the Geneva convention.
Questioning them according to the Geneva convention by all means.

But, the Rendition of non combatants and often innocent folk is wrong.

Hold them until cleared in the country the were captured and then release or jail them according to the law of the country concerned.

That is the only decent and fair way to do it.



So, is a terrorist consdered a war participant or a non combatant?
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Feb 19, 2011 11:53 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
mastic55
mastic55mastic55Long Island, New York USA167 Threads 6,859 Posts
Colleene1024: So, is a terrorist consdered a war participant or a non combatant?
A terrorist should have no rights, just a right to die.
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Feb 19, 2011 11:57 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
Colleene1024
Colleene1024Colleene1024West Warwick, Rhode Island USA10 Threads 1,225 Posts
mastic55: A terrorist should have no rights, just a right to die.


Here is a really good question for everyone.....


Those terrorists who are adults also have children. They drill all this religious stuff in their heads that makes them terrorists. What should happen to the children if they were cought along with the adults? professor conversing
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Feb 19, 2011 11:58 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
Colleene1024: So, is a terrorist considered a war participant or a non combatant?
Might depend on where he is grabbed!conversing
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Feb 19, 2011 11:58 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
patmac
patmacpatmacglasgow, Strathclyde, Scotland UK730 Threads 6 Polls 9,662 Posts
Colleene1024: So, is a terrorist consdered a war participant or a non combatant?


He or she could be both.

The rules apply to both as well.

But few would say a member of the Taliban is really a war combatant as such but by the same thought hard to prove they are not.

When folk are not members of a regular Army they can still be combatants.

But they could be classed as terrorists.

Hard to define folk who do not wear Dog Tags,Uniforms and yet they are just foot soldiers.

not easy is it to figure out and that is the key.

How do we decide which they are,

dunno grin cheers
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Feb 19, 2011 11:58 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
Colleene1024
Colleene1024Colleene1024West Warwick, Rhode Island USA10 Threads 1,225 Posts
Sorry to speak and run folks but, the real world is calling for me. Will be back later! hug To all of you! lips
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Feb 19, 2011 11:59 AM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
gleneagle
gleneaglegleneagleNew York City, New York USA36 Threads 3 Polls 1,147 Posts
Colleene1024: Here is a really good question for everyone.....Those terrorists who are adults also have children. They drill all this religious stuff in their heads that makes them terrorists. What should happen to the children if they were cought along with the adults?
send them to Israelrolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
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Feb 19, 2011 12:01 PM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
gleneagle
gleneaglegleneagleNew York City, New York USA36 Threads 3 Polls 1,147 Posts
Conrad73: Might depend on where he is grabbed!
So if you grab him by the nuts and he squeals he's definitely a terroristlaugh grin
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Feb 19, 2011 12:02 PM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
gleneagle: send them to Israel
scold
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Feb 19, 2011 12:02 PM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
mastic55
mastic55mastic55Long Island, New York USA167 Threads 6,859 Posts
The day Kennedy took office, America changed in the wrong direction.Guy's like Ike knew how to run a country.But the country was too young to know better......No way would the old America vote for a prisdent who said"I didn't inheal".cheers I know I'am crazy, but I know in my mind I'am right.cheers
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Feb 19, 2011 12:03 PM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
gleneagle
gleneaglegleneagleNew York City, New York USA36 Threads 3 Polls 1,147 Posts
gardenhackle: Declarations of war aren't usually done any more, nor are they a necessary protocol. I did a little looking into this some time ago and there haven't been any "declarations of war" in quite some time even though there have certainly been wars and the wars would have been governed by the Geneva convention regardless.
I think that it require the approval of congress thus the reluctance to go down that road!
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Feb 19, 2011 12:04 PM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
elienebrazil
elienebrazilelienebrazilsomewhere, Sao Paulo Brazil2 Threads 714 Posts
Colleene1024: Habeas Corpus is a centuries old legal mechanism that prevents government from arbitrarily detaining its citizens. Its originated in medieval England and operates in many countries influenced by the English common-law tradition. In the USA Habeas Corpus a petition to a state or federal court, on behalf of a prisoner, requesting that the court review the basis of the person’s detention. Habeas Corpus is considered to be one of the foundations of constitutional democracy and the principle has been adopted by many countries throughout the world. In the United States Habeas Corpus is a fundamental piece of the legal system that allows capital defendants to challenge death penalty rulings and immigration detainees to challenge the legality of their detention. It is protected by Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution, which states, “The privilege of the write of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.”
After the attacks of September 11 2001, the Bush administration began to challenge the applicability of Habeas Corpus to terror suspect detainees. The legal and political battles around restrictions to Habeas Corpus have been fierce. Most recently, in Boumediene vs Bush, the Supreme Court held that terror suspects detained at Guantanamo Bay are protected by Habeas Corpus.

The Debatabase Book, 4th Edition with additional material by the Editor ( United States ) Should the ancient right of Habeas Corpus be limited or suspended as part of efforts to combat terrorism?

IMO There is no reason why the United States cannot uphold constitutional protections such as Habeas Corpus and effectively combat terrorism at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, ensuring that suspected terrorists have access to Federal courts will save much-needed resources and ensure more accurate administration of justice. In the present case, it is unclear which of the Guantanamo detainees actually committed the acts that are used to justify their indefinite detention. Allowing detainees to challenge their detention would bring clarity to this uncertain situation and free up resources in the war against terrorism.

Rights are, that everyone has the right of accuse or defend, no matter who, if, habeas Cuspus, is a tool of law where the accused can not defend more, the Right one of the pillars of any society is meaningless
wave
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Feb 19, 2011 12:05 PM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
gleneagle
gleneaglegleneagleNew York City, New York USA36 Threads 3 Polls 1,147 Posts
mastic55: The day Kennedy took office, America changed in the wrong direction.Guy's like Ike knew how to run a country.But the country was too young to know better......No way would the old America vote for a prisdent who said"I didn't inheal". I know I'am crazy, but I know in my mind I'am right.
Sure you not thinking of William Jefferson Clintonconfused I didnt know there was any law against not "inhealing"rolling on the floor laughing
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Feb 19, 2011 12:11 PM CST Restrictions on Habeas Corpus
mastic55
mastic55mastic55Long Island, New York USA167 Threads 6,859 Posts
gleneagle: Sure you not thinking of William Jefferson Clinton I didnt know there was any law against not "inhealing"
There should be, It's a waste.rolling on the floor laughing cheers
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