President Obama is ending the recession (41)
online today!online today!Conrad73Zurich, Switzerland204 Threads 6 Polls 59,477 Postsvenusenvy: I hear that Garden. But it makes me think we are the peas in a huge shell game played by our Govs. Exploring our own resources would solve the unemployment issues, as well as keeping costs down. It would be much easier for other countries like Europe to trade in resources with us, and choke out and die funding inhumane governments as we clearly see what the middle east has done with oil wealth. Mexico doesnt export thier oil, they rely on thier own resourses. Consequently gas is significantly cheaper here, which illustrates the point. If our leaders would get together and create a solid trading block, not only would it give us autonomy on the world market, it would solve much of the world crisis we currently face. In the interim, we could use our wealth to explore/develop alternative energy sources, which in the end would clean up the planet, create new industry, and end the oil dependancy once and for all.
But that makes too much sense!
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ooby_dooby: Today is the second aniversary of the bottom of stock market. The DJIA (DOW) is UP 86% since that day.
And that is a fact!
It is too soon to sing "Happy days are here again", but happy days are on their way. The thing people need to remember is the stock market is what is called a "Leading Indicator" meaning it historically looks 6 months to a year ahead.
And that is a fact!
It is too soon to sing "Happy days are here again", but happy days are on their way. The thing people need to remember is the stock market is what is called a "Leading Indicator" meaning it historically looks 6 months to a year ahead.
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gardenhackle: Sometimes it's very unprofitable to do what's right even though you're going to get a political beat-down for it. A good leader will accept that and take the political hit and do the right thing, anyway.
If there was a practical way to form some sort of North American Energy coalition with potential to solve our fuel problems and dependence on foreign oil, I don't think even the most rabid greenies could stop it from happening because I think the popular support would be overwhelming. I really hate the fact that such a key element to our overall security is in the hands of.... let's just say "other people" and leave it at that.
If there was a practical way to form some sort of North American Energy coalition with potential to solve our fuel problems and dependence on foreign oil, I don't think even the most rabid greenies could stop it from happening because I think the popular support would be overwhelming. I really hate the fact that such a key element to our overall security is in the hands of.... let's just say "other people" and leave it at that.
Well I do think some of the responsibility is on us to stand up and ask these questions of our heads of state. I wish peeps would wake up to the possibilities and also thier own power. What began in Cairo was the pebble being dropped in the pond. The ripples will continue a long way. I think wise leaders should take heed. If a poor population like the Egyptians can take back thier power and topple governments, Just think what could happen in our own countries if we stood up and demanded change. Look at Brazil for example. Its a small relatively poor 3rd world nation, yet they managed to completely convert the entire country in 3 years!! They use NO fossil fuels at all. So it certainly can be done.
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venusenvy: Well I do think some of the responsibility is on us to stand up and ask these questions of our heads of state. I wish peeps would wake up to the possibilities and also thier own power. What began in Cairo was the pebble being dropped in the pond. The ripples will continue a long way. I think wise leaders should take heed. If a poor population like the Egyptians can take back thier power and topple governments, Just think what could happen in our own countries if we stood up and demanded change. Look at Brazil for example. Its a small relatively poor 3rd world nation, yet they managed to completely convert the entire country in 3 years!! They use NO fossil fuels at all. So it certainly can be done.
Perhaps the first step would be to consider the pros and cons of a policy to unite North and South America in such an agreement and whether or not we have the infrastructure, reserves and science in place to make it happen. Also, determining what the potential for fallout would be if we are not ready to be self-sufficient, but it became known to Asian and Middle Eastern oil suplliers that we were planning on putting an embargo on all their products.
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venusenvy: Well I do think some of the responsibility is on us to stand up and ask these questions of our heads of state. I wish peeps would wake up to the possibilities and also thier own power. What began in Cairo was the pebble being dropped in the pond. The ripples will continue a long way. I think wise leaders should take heed. If a poor population like the Egyptians can take back thier power and topple governments, Just think what could happen in our own countries if we stood up and demanded change. Look at Brazil for example. Its a small relatively poor 3rd world nation, yet they managed to completely convert the entire country in 3 years!! They use NO fossil fuels at all. So it certainly can be done.
Dear V, Brazil doesn't compleatly eliminate fossil fuel ( oil, gas , ethanol, etc .) . It does produce ethanol to run on ( when it's cheaper to do so ) . They started there "E" program back in the 70's with the first rise in oil . Being a large debtor nation they couldn't afford the higher cost of imported oil . They realy had no choice but to do it or go "belly-up". Sugar prices where down also so it made sense to rely on ethanol . When sugar began to rise and oil prices started to drop, They where back where they started . What they did ( or had to do ) was go on a flex fuel system .It is a falacy to think that they did it for enviormental or non dependancy reasons . They did it because if they didn't they where facing imanent colapse . It is sad to say but that seems to be the only thing that moves Goverments . that last statement can be summed up in " all the beuracrats where going to lose there jobs " !
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Frankinstien: Dear V, Brazil doesn't compleatly eliminate fossil fuel ( oil, gas , ethanol, etc .) . It does produce ethanol to run on ( when it's cheaper to do so ) . They started there "E" program back in the 70's with the first rise in oil . Being a large debtor nation they couldn't afford the higher cost of imported oil . They realy had no choice but to do it or go "belly-up". Sugar prices where down also so it made sense to rely on ethanol . When sugar began to rise and oil prices started to drop, They where back where they started . What they did ( or had to do ) was go on a flex fuel system .
It is a falacy to think that they did it for enviormental or non dependancy reasons . They did it because if they didn't they where facing imanent colapse . It is sad to say but that seems to be the only thing that moves Goverments . that last statement can be summed up in " all the beuracrats where going to lose there jobs " !
It is a falacy to think that they did it for enviormental or non dependancy reasons . They did it because if they didn't they where facing imanent colapse . It is sad to say but that seems to be the only thing that moves Goverments . that last statement can be summed up in " all the beuracrats where going to lose there jobs " !
Can't fault a nation's leadership for doing what it takes to keep their coutnry's economy from collapsing any more than we can castigate a ship's captain for steering through a horrific storm just because the petty bastage was only interested in saving his own skin. I think for the politicans making such a move, their own skin is probably secondary to their concerns about the whole country as a whole. Losing a job is the least of one's worries if the whole country collapses.
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Actractorguy: What's the true cost of this. Your advocating removing a large portion of the feed corn used to feed livestock. That in turn increases the cost to farmers and in the end everything just goes sky high in price. Also what is the true environmental impact of making the stuff.
Maybe we should be drilling here instead.
I totally agree with what you said about corn, however if you go back and re-read what I said I didn't say anything about using corn. There is a key word in my statement which I've highlighted in bold in this copy.Maybe we should be drilling here instead.
"Also build celulosic ethanol plants and make the minor modifications to cars so they can run E100 (100% ethanol) without problems, Indy cars run on it and they go 225 MPH so we know it works. Increase gastank volume by 20% to account for the loss of milage."
Don't feel bad though because most people link ethanol with corn because celulosic ethanol is still a brand new technology.
Celulosic ethanol isn't made from grains like corn or wheat etc it's made from weeds, wood chips, corn cobbs, switchgrass, any vegetation that contains celulose which is ALL vegetation.
Unfortunately the DOE is stuck in neutral and seems unable to do anything. They promised loan guarantees to companies 2 years ago to build these plants and while these co's are waiting they are going through their cash and going belly up left & right.
That was over 2 years ago check the date. Since that time Verenium sold the celulosic business to BP who hopefully has the money and will to develope the technology.
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gardenhackle: Can't fault a nation's leadership for doing what it takes to keep their coutnry's economy from collapsing any more than we can castigate a ship's captain for steering through a horrific storm just because the petty bastage was only interested in saving his own skin. I think for the politicans making such a move, their own skin is probably secondary to their concerns about the whole country as a whole. Losing a job is the least of one's worries if the whole country collapses.
You seem to have more faith in them than I do . But then I'm a lot older than you are .------ This thread is Archived ------
ooby_dooby: I totally agree with what you said about corn, however if you go back and re-read what I said I didn't say anything about using corn. There is a key word in my statement which I've highlighted in bold in this copy.
"Also build celulosic ethanol plants and make the minor modifications to cars so they can run E100 (100% ethanol) without problems, Indy cars run on it and they go 225 MPH so we know it works. Increase gastank volume by 20% to account for the loss of milage."
Don't feel bad though because most people link ethanol with corn because celulosic ethanol is still a brand new technology.
Celulosic ethanol isn't made from grains like corn or wheat etc it's made from weeds, wood chips, corn cobbs, switchgrass, any vegetation that contains celulose which is ALL vegetation.
Unfortunately the DOE is stuck in neutral and seems unable to do anything. They promised loan guarantees to companies 2 years ago to build these plants and while these co's are waiting they are going through their cash and going belly up left & right.
That was over 2 years ago check the date. Since that time Verenium sold the celulosic business to BP who hopefully has the money and will to develope the technology.
"Also build celulosic ethanol plants and make the minor modifications to cars so they can run E100 (100% ethanol) without problems, Indy cars run on it and they go 225 MPH so we know it works. Increase gastank volume by 20% to account for the loss of milage."
Don't feel bad though because most people link ethanol with corn because celulosic ethanol is still a brand new technology.
Celulosic ethanol isn't made from grains like corn or wheat etc it's made from weeds, wood chips, corn cobbs, switchgrass, any vegetation that contains celulose which is ALL vegetation.
Unfortunately the DOE is stuck in neutral and seems unable to do anything. They promised loan guarantees to companies 2 years ago to build these plants and while these co's are waiting they are going through their cash and going belly up left & right.
That was over 2 years ago check the date. Since that time Verenium sold the celulosic business to BP who hopefully has the money and will to develope the technology.
I say water it down a bit. I'm happy to go 65 mph.
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ooby_dooby: Today is the second aniversary of the bottom of stock market. The DJIA (DOW) is UP 86% since that day.
And that is a fact!
It is too soon to sing "Happy days are here again", but happy days are on their way. The thing people need to remember is the stock market is what is called a "Leading Indicator" meaning it historically looks 6 months to a year ahead.
And that is a fact!
It is too soon to sing "Happy days are here again", but happy days are on their way. The thing people need to remember is the stock market is what is called a "Leading Indicator" meaning it historically looks 6 months to a year ahead.
I think you are right. Worried about the spike in oil prices and Israels syggestion we give them $20 billion more in military aid. Then there's the health care mess and Social Security to fund. Where is the money coming from? Capital gains?
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Frankinstien: Dear V, Brazil doesn't compleatly eliminate fossil fuel ( oil, gas , ethanol, etc .) . It does produce ethanol to run on ( when it's cheaper to do so ) . They started there "E" program back in the 70's with the first rise in oil . Being a large debtor nation they couldn't afford the higher cost of imported oil . They realy had no choice but to do it or go "belly-up". Sugar prices where down also so it made sense to rely on ethanol . When sugar began to rise and oil prices started to drop, They where back where they started . What they did ( or had to do ) was go on a flex fuel system .
It is a falacy to think that they did it for enviormental or non dependancy reasons . They did it because if they didn't they where facing imanent colapse . It is sad to say but that seems to be the only thing that moves Goverments . that last statement can be summed up in " all the beuracrats where going to lose there jobs " !
It is a falacy to think that they did it for enviormental or non dependancy reasons . They did it because if they didn't they where facing imanent colapse . It is sad to say but that seems to be the only thing that moves Goverments . that last statement can be summed up in " all the beuracrats where going to lose there jobs " !
Really? I recently read an article that stated that they were completely off fossil fuels...Hmm I will have to do more research.
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Frankinstien: You seem to have more faith in them than I do . But then I'm a lot older than you are .
It's not a matter of "faith" that makes be me believe there's more to politicans doing whatever is necessary to keep their country from going bankrupt than saving their own jobs. To think that none of them would care if their country went flat bust except because they have a job there is just too cynical even for me to consider seriously. Sure, some in power are so rotten and corrupt that they don't have any human decency at all, but I don't think political jobs strip every vestige of humanity from every person that gets the job. Color me glass half full on that. Not all the way full.... but half.
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venusenvy: Really? I recently read an article that stated that they were completely off fossil fuels...Hmm I will have to do more research.
Dear V, Please pardon the late response to this, but the fossel fuel they are refering to might be conventional ones . They do import oil when the price is acceptable and then switch to home grown ethanol ( from sugar cane ) when nessesary . Being an engineer and having worked in the alternte energy field I try to keep abreast of all that is going on in the field . Energy ( in all forms ) is the largest industry in the world . The fact that so mutch of it is petrolium driven is because it is the easiest to do . The energy density is very good and is adaptable to almost anything . The fact that so mutch is in worldwide demand, and stocks are not inexahustable makes it nessessary to find alternate forms . Hopefully before it's too late . I won't bore you with oil lobby asperations or corporate proffets above all else . However we do have some coushion in this thing . Let's hope we don't "blow" it again .------ This thread is Archived ------
Swissblueeyes: True it is behind the other states..I dont understand why though because car sales have gone up.
I live way north of dearborn and its beautiful here on the lake..Just wish they would get michigan all straightened out tough as far as the economy here. would bring back more better men too.
seems a lot of them moved to another state for work..lol
I live way north of dearborn and its beautiful here on the lake..Just wish they would get michigan all straightened out tough as far as the economy here. would bring back more better men too.
seems a lot of them moved to another state for work..lol
Although it can be real cold up there during the winters, I am seriously jealous If you live anywhere near Frankenmuth, MI!
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Obama is not ending the recession, he is making it worse.
Would you really want to be in this highly valued stock market today? I wouldn't. It's going to crash soon because of oil prices and increasing costs of food. Super inflation is coming and the stock market will drop like a rock when that happens.
Independents helped to get Obama elected. A new poll today shows that just in the last 30 days, Obama's popularity dropped 10% from last month. Barely 30% of Independents approve of him now. Over 30% of American's are Independent.
Bye Bye Obama; many others can do better.
Would you really want to be in this highly valued stock market today? I wouldn't. It's going to crash soon because of oil prices and increasing costs of food. Super inflation is coming and the stock market will drop like a rock when that happens.
Independents helped to get Obama elected. A new poll today shows that just in the last 30 days, Obama's popularity dropped 10% from last month. Barely 30% of Independents approve of him now. Over 30% of American's are Independent.
Bye Bye Obama; many others can do better.
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ooby_dooby: Today is the second aniversary of the bottom of stock market. The DJIA (DOW) is UP 86% since that day.
And that is a fact!
It is too soon to sing "Happy days are here again", but happy days are on their way. The thing people need to remember is the stock market is what is called a "Leading Indicator" meaning it historically looks 6 months to a year ahead.
And that is a fact!
It is too soon to sing "Happy days are here again", but happy days are on their way. The thing people need to remember is the stock market is what is called a "Leading Indicator" meaning it historically looks 6 months to a year ahead.
Ridiculous.
First let's get the figures exact and up to date.
The low point of the stock market in recent history was March 6, 2009, when the Dow-Jones was at 6627.
And now, the Dow-Jones is at 12213.
So, yes the average share price has gone up 84.3%.
But is that, as you claim, a sign that the economy is just about to recover?
In December 2008 oil was at 32.94 the barrel.
In December 2010 it was at 81.01 the barrel.
That's a price increase of 146%.
Does that price increase somehow mean the economy is getting better? Or does it mean that inflation is causing the price to rise?
As the dollar devalues, the price of everything (including shares of stock) goes up.
If the price of an apple has doubled in the last 5 years it doesn't mean the apple is "worth" more. Just that it costs more.
The current administration has been pouring trillions of dollars of worthless paper into the economy. It is inevitable that prices of everything increase.
Your fallacy is that you confuse price with value.
If you were to pay for stocks in eggs, or apples, or gold or something of real value, you would find that the value of stocks has declined not increased.
But since people pay with paper money that is rapidly losing its value, the price keeps going up.goes up.
The only valid sign that would indicate an improvement in the economy would be a trade surplus, indicating that the country was no longer losing money every single day.
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johnaustin123: Obama is not ending the recession, he is making it worse.
Would you really want to be in this highly valued stock market today? I wouldn't. It's going to crash soon because of oil prices and increasing costs of food. Super inflation is coming and the stock market will drop like a rock when that happens.
Independents helped to get Obama elected. A new poll today shows that just in the last 30 days, Obama's popularity dropped 10% from last month. Barely 30% of Independents approve of him now. Over 30% of American's are Independent.
Bye Bye Obama; many others can do better.
The title of this thread was a little tongue in cheek. It was a counter to a certain poster on here who seems to be obsessed with trashing Obama. There isn't much a president can do to affect the economy other than to not f__k it up the way the last one did by starting a holy war. The Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board has more power than the prez when it comes to the economy.Would you really want to be in this highly valued stock market today? I wouldn't. It's going to crash soon because of oil prices and increasing costs of food. Super inflation is coming and the stock market will drop like a rock when that happens.
Independents helped to get Obama elected. A new poll today shows that just in the last 30 days, Obama's popularity dropped 10% from last month. Barely 30% of Independents approve of him now. Over 30% of American's are Independent.
Bye Bye Obama; many others can do better.
As to being in the market today, I AM in the market with both feet and have been since 2003 most recently. Stocks have recovered quite a bit since the crash but they still have about 25% more to go before they are where they were before the banks and the housing bubble burst. People who bailed out after the doo doo hit the fan and stayed in cash have missed the boat in a big way.
As to losing out in 2012 it will depend on who he's running against and where we're at then. I think reasonable people will decide on the merits of the candidates just like they always do, baring the haters. If the unemployment rate is around 7% and falling and the market is cooking along and oil comes back down to a reasonable price, and we start to get a handle on our runaway debt, people wont want to change horses.
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Who's the threader that is trashing Obama ooby_dooby?
As myself, I keep to polls and facts about him.
Hillary Clinton would beat the heck out of him in a primary.
I could pull up my poll Rate Obama A,B,C,D,F again, but that is historical. You can find it on the 2nd or 3rd page. The majority of CS members gave Obama an "F".
Obama Bumps Head on Marine One, Obama Hits Head...
As myself, I keep to polls and facts about him.
Hillary Clinton would beat the heck out of him in a primary.
I could pull up my poll Rate Obama A,B,C,D,F again, but that is historical. You can find it on the 2nd or 3rd page. The majority of CS members gave Obama an "F".
Obama Bumps Head on Marine One, Obama Hits Head...
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ooby_dooby: I agree, we need to bite the bullet and accelerate the deployment of wind turbines and upgrade our electric grid, that would get a lot of people off the unemployment rolls. Also build celulosic ethanol plants and make the minor modifications to cars so they can run E100 (100% ethanol) without problems, Indy cars run on it and they go 225 MPH so we know it works. Increase gastank volume by 20% to account for the loss of milage.
It's time to stop making Arabian shieks wealthy. Maybe then we can get the hell out of the middle east and let them get back to riding camels instead of driving around in a Rolls Royce.
It's time to stop making Arabian shieks wealthy. Maybe then we can get the hell out of the middle east and let them get back to riding camels instead of driving around in a Rolls Royce.
Give credit where credit is due. Oil prices are going up due to market speculation not because of any problem with supply.
Look to Western Europe and North America to see who is causing the rise in oil prices. it's not the "Ay-Rabs".
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The 2 main reasons for this surge in oil prices is the unrest in the middle east and the weak dollar. Because oil is priced in dollars as the dollar goes down, oil goes up. Of course speculators exagerate the swings in price a tremendous amount. This is reflected in what is called the VIX (volatility Index). This is a measure of the intraday price swings of stocks, and commodities. The higher the VIX, the more opportunity there is to make money with ultra short term trades (day trading).
All things being equal if the dollar dropped to 50% of it's value oil would double in price.
All things being equal if the dollar dropped to 50% of it's value oil would double in price.
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