Ask yourself this question. Who benefitted most from 9/11? (764)
There are men who struggle for a day and they are good.
There are men who struggle for a year and they are better.
There are men who struggle many years, and they are better still.
But there are those who struggle all their lives.
These are the indispensable ones.
-Bertolt Brecht
There are men who struggle for a year and they are better.
There are men who struggle many years, and they are better still.
But there are those who struggle all their lives.
These are the indispensable ones.
-Bertolt Brecht
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mnowsa: trust me niko, that class dude knew exactly what i meant up there
I used to cut the hair for the owner of a large music company here in Portland, I would go there to his office and cut it right on the spot,,He was fairly well off, but what a really awesome guy. I remember when I got the divorce he gave me the company truck for moving pianos,it had the "lift" on it. pretty cool. Well, I guess you guys have some secret code because the meaning of the words millionaire and you are just don't mean much else to me,,,,anyway, go in peace young man. you have riches that you have yet not discovered. mine them from within.
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TaotehChing: There are men who struggle for a day and they are good.
There are men who struggle for a year and they are better.
There are men who struggle many years, and they are better still.
But there are those who struggle all their lives.
These are the indispensable ones.
-Bertolt Brecht
There are men who struggle for a year and they are better.
There are men who struggle many years, and they are better still.
But there are those who struggle all their lives.
These are the indispensable ones.
-Bertolt Brecht
This has certainly turned into a philosophic thread. But can anyone tell me how bin Laden sitting in his Afghanistan cave (actually his Kandahar compound) was repressed by the US prior to 911 and forced into this struggle?
Sure Clinton tried to kill bin Laden with a cruise missile strike. Only after alQeada had bombed the USS Cole and African embassies.
Is not a super power allowed to defend its people?
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HI everyone!. Im back. Sorry if ive been off the air , i had a kind of mini nervous breakdown. OK, everythings AOK! Ive decided im back to studying law this year.But ill be studying politics too. So.... anyone want to fight!?
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TaotehChing: HI everyone!. Im back. Sorry if ive been off the air , i had a kind of mini nervous breakdown. OK, everythings AOK! Ive decided im back to studying law this year.But ill be studying politics too. So.... anyone want to fight!?
kocham cie 
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sorry, a slip of the hand..... to finish my sentence....
All the hatred , cunning and molestation of the USA - a superpower that thrives on a love for power and control over others (not on defending and loving their followers)was conviently placed on one little, vulnerable and sorry man. Alas, the real culprits are free again. And the masses carry the blood on their hands and a shadow looms over them as their hearts grow more hungry in darkness and fear. And hatred is here but whence it come from and where it is to go is not known, like a misguided missile shooting aimlessly and hopelessly to find its home.Yet destruction everywhere is eminent; paths of loss and inquiry grow.Then the sun sets and for a moment all is quiet in the dark. Some mistaken it as peacefulness; but peace has not yet come. So the clouds grow dark again and loom above and the shadows return, and man returns to its paths of inquiry and is lost in the day, or the night. But the illusion of peacefulness is necessary that man becomes lost in his helplessness and in his ignorance. it puts a smile on his face.
All the hatred , cunning and molestation of the USA - a superpower that thrives on a love for power and control over others (not on defending and loving their followers)was conviently placed on one little, vulnerable and sorry man. Alas, the real culprits are free again. And the masses carry the blood on their hands and a shadow looms over them as their hearts grow more hungry in darkness and fear. And hatred is here but whence it come from and where it is to go is not known, like a misguided missile shooting aimlessly and hopelessly to find its home.Yet destruction everywhere is eminent; paths of loss and inquiry grow.Then the sun sets and for a moment all is quiet in the dark. Some mistaken it as peacefulness; but peace has not yet come. So the clouds grow dark again and loom above and the shadows return, and man returns to its paths of inquiry and is lost in the day, or the night. But the illusion of peacefulness is necessary that man becomes lost in his helplessness and in his ignorance. it puts a smile on his face.
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mnowsa: oh..come on, tao! how can you 'blame' our fellow 'compassionate' conservatives' if they are 'blessed'(by their God of course) with some very 'uncanny abilities' to lie, deceit, kill and maim all in the name of ensuring their version of peace, justice, freedom, democracy and liberty.
or maybe he was an evil seed. In which case, the US still took advantage ... to exact a convoluted political agenda. Where's Conrads narrative when you need it? Come on and perform!
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No one has benefited from 9/11. How could anyone benefit from it with so many innocent lifes having being lost on both sides.
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Conrad73: if they only KNEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After his death, Osama bin Laden went to heaven.
There he was greeted by George Washington, who proceeded to slap him across the face and yell at him, "How dare you try to destroy the nation I helped conceive!"
Patrick Henry approached and punched Osama in the nose and shouted, "You wanted to end our liberties but you failed."
James Madison entered, kicked Osama and said, "This is why I allowed our government to provide for the common defense!"
Thomas Jefferson came in and proceeded to beat Osama many times with a long cane and said, "It was evil men like you that provided me the inspiration to pen the Declaration of Independence!"
These beatings and thrashings continued as John Rudolph, James Monroe and 66 other early Americans came in and unleashed their anger on the Muslim terrorist leader.
As Osama lay bleeding and writhing! in unbearable pain an Angel appeared.
Bin Laden wept in pain and said to the Angel, "This is not what you promised me."
The Angel replied, "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you up here. What did you think I said?"
After his death, Osama bin Laden went to heaven.
There he was greeted by George Washington, who proceeded to slap him across the face and yell at him, "How dare you try to destroy the nation I helped conceive!"
Patrick Henry approached and punched Osama in the nose and shouted, "You wanted to end our liberties but you failed."
James Madison entered, kicked Osama and said, "This is why I allowed our government to provide for the common defense!"
Thomas Jefferson came in and proceeded to beat Osama many times with a long cane and said, "It was evil men like you that provided me the inspiration to pen the Declaration of Independence!"
These beatings and thrashings continued as John Rudolph, James Monroe and 66 other early Americans came in and unleashed their anger on the Muslim terrorist leader.
As Osama lay bleeding and writhing! in unbearable pain an Angel appeared.
Bin Laden wept in pain and said to the Angel, "This is not what you promised me."
The Angel replied, "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you up here. What did you think I said?"
Do you have to use every thread to bash muslims?
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reb56: new world order/satan.
true------ This thread is Archived ------
mnowsa: oh..come on, tao! how can you 'blame' our fellow 'compassionate' conservatives' if they are 'blessed'(by their God of course) with some very 'uncanny abilities' to lie, deceit, kill and maim all in the name of ensuring their version of peace, justice, freedom, democracy and liberty.
btw, what is their version of peace, justice, freedom, democracy and liberty? If democracy is rule of the people, and freedoms are many including freedom of expression, freedom to live and govern oneself or ones nation without interference or intrusion from others, justice so that there is punishment for wrongdoing, and peace... hmmmm , sweet sweet peace, which is the absence of war, interrogation, wrong beliefs. peace is a state of mind and heart propelled from human love. I still believe peace can come from war, as long as the wrong guys lose. But its complicated in this day and age, because the wrong dudes have infiltrated everyone with warped ideas on peace, justice, freedom, democracy and liberty. So you might kill off one diseased group, but the seeds of disease have been planted everywhere and sprout here and there and everywhere. Perhaps peace is not of this world? IN which case it is said, 'the sun shines on both the good and the evil'. So here is the dilemma. Have any ideas raj?
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Faithe: No one has benefited from 9/11. How could anyone benefit from it with so many innocent lifes having being lost on both sides.
If you cannot see the benefits faith but only what is wrong, then your perception is short-sighted, peripheral, unbalanced. Better go practice your faith some more. Love without hate, war without peace, faith without unbelief, action without rest and contemplation, is like water without seed, or Christianity that is intolerant of other religions. Which are you? intolerant, unbalanced, or can you see?
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cloud747: true
THIS IS NOT TRUE. only if you want it to be. Again,your vision is short-sighted, peripheral, unbalanced. See reply to faith above. Haha! faith above!
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btw class55, forgive me for my ignorance regarding Joya's work in Afghanistan now. I am only up to page 50. What an embarrassing public display of stupidity.
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Nikogas: kocham cie
nikogas, i wanted to send you a song - what's a political arena without a little fleeting romance. I dont know how to send it here, so go to youtube and listen to it there- you know the song - Tiny Dancer by Elton John.
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Class5: Of course, the conspiacy theorist's position doesn't stand up to scrutiny for long at all, but people want to believe it, thus it keeps circulating.
Well, the American mind-set is, after all, like Hollywood. There is a loss of pure-intelligence to detect what is and what isnt reality. I suggest that this is because this type of mind-set has become lazy and lost for truth; its dilemma reveals some longing for truth yet this is impossible to penetrate because information is lost on the surface. The senses drink up this information, yet sensory awareness, as philosophical inquiry over the ages has revealed, is inaccurate. So then sensory intelligence which is abit like a million arseholes, meaning a million different opinions, fantasies, creations is placated as being viable. Then Darwin's survival of the fittest kicks in as the scientists put forth their claims in all manner of angles and measures. Shazam!!! one specific theory can be manipulated or pushed into science testtubes and cannisters. All that is needed now is a, as you have wonderfully envisioned it Conrad, science-fiction believing fanclub. These people are generally good people who have just become a little bored with life and prefer a more sophisticated fantasy to whiddle away their time. So Americans are both intelligent and creative peoples; the problem is that they are bored because they live in a superficial reality. Is there such a thing? Maybe its just that they live superficially which keeps them apart from reality. 'Their' created reality, which is a lie, is seen as truth and in its detail, Conrad as you have observed, is believed as anything but superficial. This keeps them entertained, like a good hollywood movie! So leave them be. This is what the Government wants .... their visions of peace (Raj, im thinking of you here); intelligent, creative numbskulls entrapped within their own mental-prison. The dilemma is ... how do you get out of here once you are in? TaotehChing
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Class5: Of course, the conspiacy theorist's position doesn't stand up to scrutiny for long at all, but people want to believe it, thus it keeps circulating.
Well, the American mind-set is, after all, like Hollywood. There is a loss of pure-intelligence to detect what is and what isnt reality. I suggest that this is because this type of mind-set has become lazy and lost for truth; its dilemma reveals some longing for truth yet this is impossible to penetrate because information is lost on the surface. The senses drink up this information, yet sensory awareness, as philosophical inquiry over the ages has revealed, is inaccurate. So then sensory intelligence which is abit like a million arseholes, meaning a million different opinions, fantasies, creations is placated as being viable. Then Darwin's survival of the fittest kicks in as the scientists put forth their claims in all manner of angles and measures. Shazam!!! one specific theory can be manipulated or pushed into science testtubes and cannisters. All that is needed now is a, as you have wonderfully envisioned it Conrad, science-fiction believing fanclub. These people are generally good people who have just become a little bored with life and prefer a more sophisticated fantasy to whiddle away their time. So Americans are both intelligent and creative peoples; the problem is that they are bored because they live in a superficial reality. Is there such a thing? Maybe its just that they live superficially which keeps them apart from reality. 'Their' created reality, which is a lie, is seen as truth and in its detail, Conrad as you have observed, is believed as anything but superficial. This keeps them entertained, like a good hollywood movie! So leave them be. This is what the Government wants .... their visions of peace (Raj, im thinking of you here); intelligent, creative numbskulls entrapped within their own mental-prison. The dilemma is ... how do you get out of here once you are in? TaotehChing
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TaotehChing: Well, the American mind-set is, after all, like Hollywood. There is a loss of pure-intelligence to detect what is and what isnt reality. I suggest that this is because this type of mind-set has become lazy and lost for truth; its dilemma reveals some longing for truth yet this is impossible to penetrate because information is lost on the surface.
And a person who believes Osama Bin Laden was born poor and lived in harsh conditions while his entire family was the richest people in Suadi Arabia after the Royal Family is qualified to show truth?
TaotehChing: the problem is that they are bored because they live in a superficial reality. Is there such a thing? Maybe its just that they live superficially which keeps them apart from reality. 'Their' created reality, which is a lie, is seen as truth and in its detail, Conrad as you have observed, is believed as anything but superficial. This keeps them entertained, like a good hollywood movie! So leave them be. This is what the Government wants .... their visions of peace (Raj, im thinking of you here); intelligent, creative numbskulls entrapped within their own mental-prison. The dilemma is ... how do you get out of here once you are in? TaotehChing
You read various sources and conduct research prior to drinking the same koolaid the uninformed continually indulge in. Conspiracy theories never stand up to close scrutiny, nor do sweeping generalizations like the above.
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Albertaghost: Bin Laden was only one famous Qutbist and head of one particular terrorist organization. Killing or capturing him would be but a small step in the battle of idealism as he would be quickly replaced as he was from the moment he went into hiding. As well, various other organizations with the same goals and methods were at war with Apostate Regimes so, he was hardly an essential figure to take out as agitation and strife would continue with or without him.
You obviously did not know he was born rich and led a relatively easy life.
Got any proof of this? From what I know, he funneled money from Mosques to the ISI in Pakistan and never fought in Afghanistan nor dealt with the US.
Of course superpowers do not give a hoot as they are a government and as such, a government does not feel or love nor hate as they are an inanimate object. On the other hand, a dictatorship or regime does give a hoot as it is run by one person as head of state and does not answer to anybody.
You obviously did not know he was born rich and led a relatively easy life.
Got any proof of this? From what I know, he funneled money from Mosques to the ISI in Pakistan and never fought in Afghanistan nor dealt with the US.
Of course superpowers do not give a hoot as they are a government and as such, a government does not feel or love nor hate as they are an inanimate object. On the other hand, a dictatorship or regime does give a hoot as it is run by one person as head of state and does not answer to anybody.
Hmmmm... interesting angle Albertaghost. Let me see if i can wheddle my way out of this one. Firstly , what sticks out here so obviously is that Bin Laden and the US did have dealings. This is obvious, or else there would not have been any AlQueda which i am presuming grew out of Taliban fundamentalist mind-set AND hatred of US. So why did this hatred arise? from nowhere? why did the US want Bin Laden killed? Killing someone you have no connection or ties with, no dealings with, springs out of motives of insanity and self-obsession. The US government, as you profess is an inanimate thing, so it cannot possibly be self-obsessed or insane. Its motives would therefore have to be objective; political and economic motives for instance. the US deigns itself to be a political superpower designed to manipulate and interrogate war if their superpower is threatened or if any group threatens to deliberate war against them. Economically, middle eastern Arabia is an oil wealth-spring. They want it, because (worldly) superpowers sustain and maintain their power in wealth. So whatever stands in their way in this regard - whatever obstacle that acts as a head-lock to entry into this wealth spring must be eradicated eg. bin laden's religious-terrorist campaign deemed him a threat to US-arabian alliance via religious commonality. He would have to go. But, as i have wrote tonight in reply to Conrad's ficticious 9/11 pro-conspiracy theorists, there would have to be a reasoning to 'killing' Bin Laden. Which blows your inanimate government theory out the window. An inanimate object cannot reason, yet the US government must have reasoning in order to fulfill its democratic values such as justice. In this case it needs to appeal to the subjective values of both Western and Islamic peoples, since there is a motive of alliance between them, for economic reasons.
US had dealings with Bin Laden in the sense that he was used to arouse hatred for anything or anyone that challenges, threatens or opposes the superpower. The people would have to hate Bin Laden and what he stands for for the US to achieve their objectives (see above). He was a terrorist, a war-lord, and has killed many innocent people. Yet the US has done the same. Bin Laden hated the US because of its corruptive, molesting power and wealth, and the US hated Bin Laden because he hated this.
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The distinction must be made before those with an agenda misuse the information.
Although, off topic, it would be interesting to discuss Malalai's solutions to the current Afghan situation with you at length.
Yes, discuss with me. Is Joya still working underground teaching in Herat with the OPAWC? What are her solutions to the current situation in Afghanistan? I am interested too. Let me do some more reading though tonight.