North Korean ICBM test (31)
Cool story, bro.
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That is why the NK engineers were tripping over themselves at the media
Q and A trying to explain the failure?
Q and A trying to explain the failure?
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ttom500: That is why the NK engineers were tripping over themselves at the media
Q and A trying to explain the failure?
Q and A trying to explain the failure?
What are they gonna say?
"We blew up the "satellite" because we had already accomplished our real goal of demonstrating our ability to hit American bases in South Korea, Japan and the Phillipines.?"
It is typically Asian to communicate indirectly, leaving important things unsaid but making them clearly apparent in other ways, so as to avoid any sort of unpleasant and unnecessary disputes.
You can bet that the Asian countries harboring US nuclear bases understood the unspoken message behind the "failed" satellite launch.
There is no way in the world for North Korea to launch a rocket into orbit without flying over another country's airspace. The direction of the rocket happened to be the trajectory the one that allowed the rocket to travel furthest before it would have crossed into Japanese airspace where it would have likely have been shot down by antimissile batteries anyway and would have caused a major international event.
As it is. The strategic goal of demonstrating the booster's ability to launch a nuclear payload was accomplished and there is nothing that the US or its Asian vassal states can really complain about because the rocket was destroyed over international waters.
In its one minute flight the rocket traveled 1900 miles and reached the end of its booster stage flight. And it was only the booster capability that they cared about demonstrating anyway.
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RayfromUSA: I think the whole world agrees that the rocket launch by North Korea was not really intended to put a satellite in orbit as stated. It was in fact the test of a multi-stage ICBM, or rather, just the booster stage (the other stage rockets being already in use).
The "official" story is that the test was a failure because the rocket was destroyed only one minute after launch.
Personally I think the destruction was intentional.
In my opinion the launch was more of a demonstration than a test. Certainly the rocket engine had been test fired many times on a testing block.
It was necessary to claim it was a satellite launch in order to stifle criticism in the worldwide press. It was also necessary to destruct the missile before it entered Japanese airspace. Japan had announced its intention to shoot down the rocket, and in fact both Japan and the US deployed anti-missile batteries throughout Japanese territory. So destructing the rocket was the only way to avoid a major incident.
Seen in that light I would say North Korea attained their objective. They demonstrated that they have a working ICBM booster and can therefore hit US cities if they are attacked.
The objective is not to threaten the US, but rather to convince South Korea and Japan to rethink their alliance with the US.
The US can no longer offer either a market for their products nor any sort of viable military protection.
In any nuclear conflict, no matter who starts it, the presence of US nuclear weapons on their soil would make both South Korea and Japan certain targets of missiles fired from North Korea. They would have virtually no warning of such an attack and no means to defend themselves against it. So their only effective defense would be to rid themselves of those bases and thus create a nuclear-free buffer zone.
And that is, of course, North Korea's goal. Not to threaten the superpowers of the world, but to neutralize the nuclear threat of total annihilation that has existed for decades just across its border.
Seen in that light, North Korean strategy doesn't seem nearly as "crazy" as it has been portrayed in the western press.
The "official" story is that the test was a failure because the rocket was destroyed only one minute after launch.
Personally I think the destruction was intentional.
In my opinion the launch was more of a demonstration than a test. Certainly the rocket engine had been test fired many times on a testing block.
It was necessary to claim it was a satellite launch in order to stifle criticism in the worldwide press. It was also necessary to destruct the missile before it entered Japanese airspace. Japan had announced its intention to shoot down the rocket, and in fact both Japan and the US deployed anti-missile batteries throughout Japanese territory. So destructing the rocket was the only way to avoid a major incident.
Seen in that light I would say North Korea attained their objective. They demonstrated that they have a working ICBM booster and can therefore hit US cities if they are attacked.
The objective is not to threaten the US, but rather to convince South Korea and Japan to rethink their alliance with the US.
The US can no longer offer either a market for their products nor any sort of viable military protection.
In any nuclear conflict, no matter who starts it, the presence of US nuclear weapons on their soil would make both South Korea and Japan certain targets of missiles fired from North Korea. They would have virtually no warning of such an attack and no means to defend themselves against it. So their only effective defense would be to rid themselves of those bases and thus create a nuclear-free buffer zone.
And that is, of course, North Korea's goal. Not to threaten the superpowers of the world, but to neutralize the nuclear threat of total annihilation that has existed for decades just across its border.
Seen in that light, North Korean strategy doesn't seem nearly as "crazy" as it has been portrayed in the western press.
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RayfromUSA: What are they gonna say?
"We blew up the "satellite" because we had already accomplished our real goal of demonstrating our ability to hit American bases in South Korea, Japan and the Phillipines.?"
It is typically Asian to communicate indirectly, leaving important things unsaid but making them clearly apparent in other ways, so as to avoid any sort of unpleasant and unnecessary disputes.
You can bet that the Asian countries harboring US nuclear bases understood the unspoken message behind the "failed" satellite launch.
There is no way in the world for North Korea to launch a rocket into orbit without flying over another country's airspace. The direction of the rocket happened to be the trajectory the one that allowed the rocket to travel furthest before it would have crossed into Japanese airspace where it would have likely have been shot down by antimissile batteries anyway and would have caused a major international event.
As it is. The strategic goal of demonstrating the booster's ability to launch a nuclear payload was accomplished and there is nothing that the US or its Asian vassal states can really complain about because the rocket was destroyed over international waters.
In its one minute flight the rocket traveled 1900 miles and reached the end of its booster stage flight. And it was only the booster capability that they cared about demonstrating anyway.
"We blew up the "satellite" because we had already accomplished our real goal of demonstrating our ability to hit American bases in South Korea, Japan and the Phillipines.?"
It is typically Asian to communicate indirectly, leaving important things unsaid but making them clearly apparent in other ways, so as to avoid any sort of unpleasant and unnecessary disputes.
You can bet that the Asian countries harboring US nuclear bases understood the unspoken message behind the "failed" satellite launch.
There is no way in the world for North Korea to launch a rocket into orbit without flying over another country's airspace. The direction of the rocket happened to be the trajectory the one that allowed the rocket to travel furthest before it would have crossed into Japanese airspace where it would have likely have been shot down by antimissile batteries anyway and would have caused a major international event.
As it is. The strategic goal of demonstrating the booster's ability to launch a nuclear payload was accomplished and there is nothing that the US or its Asian vassal states can really complain about because the rocket was destroyed over international waters.
In its one minute flight the rocket traveled 1900 miles and reached the end of its booster stage flight. And it was only the booster capability that they cared about demonstrating anyway.
Sorry Ray. You make a multi dollar rocket for a 90 second demonstration flight? And it take a 10-14 minutes to reach LEO orbit of a altitude of 150 miles....so no way Hose' does this baby fly 1900 miles in 90 second. LOL................
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ttom500: Sorry Ray. You make a multi dollar rocket for a 90 second demonstration flight? And it take a 10-14 minutes to reach LEO orbit of a altitude of 150 miles....so no way Hose' does this baby fly 1900 miles in 90 second. LOL................
Ray's numbers have a flaw,if the Rocket traveled 1900 miles in 60 seconds it means that the average speed of the Rocket was 1900/60=31.666666mi/sec!Something isn't right!
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Conrad73:
Something isn't right!
Something isn't right!
Ray: ""So destructing the rocket was the only way to avoid a major incident.""
We know how North Korea hates those!
Ray: ""The objective is not to threaten the US, but rather to convince South Korea and Japan to rethink their alliance with the US.
The US can no longer offer either a market for their products nor any sort of viable military protection.""
North Korea knows the US is no viable military threat yet doesn't want japan or South Korea to be allies with the US who according to Ray can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag yet scare North Korea into not doing a proper test as they may react.
Hmmm. I smell crazy like a stench here suddenly.
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There's no way for a rocket to reach the Pacific Ocean without crossing over Japan. If it went 1900 miles it would have been 1200 miles PAST Japan and half the way to Hawaai.
Furthermore, That rocket was a fake! It leaped off the launch pad too damn fast which tells me the 2nd & 3rd stage were nothing but an empty shell, OIW the assembly was way too light which showed in the launch. I noticed that immediately. The greatest distance the POS could have gone without crossing over Japanese territory was just over 500 mi. Even then, debris would have landed on Japanese soil.
FAIL
Furthermore, That rocket was a fake! It leaped off the launch pad too damn fast which tells me the 2nd & 3rd stage were nothing but an empty shell, OIW the assembly was way too light which showed in the launch. I noticed that immediately. The greatest distance the POS could have gone without crossing over Japanese territory was just over 500 mi. Even then, debris would have landed on Japanese soil.
FAIL
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RayfromUSA: I think the whole world agrees that the rocket launch by North Korea was not really intended to put a satellite in orbit as stated. It was in fact the test of a multi-stage ICBM, or rather, just the booster stage (the other stage rockets being already in use).
Not true... the bottom stage is one of their existing rockets, not a new one.
The "official" story is that the test was a failure because the rocket was destroyed only one minute after launch.
Personally I think the destruction was intentional.
In my opinion the launch was more of a demonstration than a test. Certainly the rocket engine had been test fired many times on a testing block.
It was necessary to claim it was a satellite launch in order to stifle criticism in the worldwide press. It was also necessary to destruct the missile before it entered Japanese airspace. Japan had announced its intention to shoot down the rocket, and in fact both Japan and the US deployed anti-missile batteries throughout Japanese territory. So destructing the rocket was the only way to avoid a major incident.
Not true... the path of the missile was due South, passing between China and Japan. Not over Japanese airspace.
Seen in that light I would say North Korea attained their objective. They demonstrated that they have a working ICBM booster and can therefore hit US cities if they are attacked.
The objective is not to threaten the US, but rather to convince South Korea and Japan to rethink their alliance with the US.
The US can no longer offer either a market for their products nor any sort of viable military protection.
In any nuclear conflict, no matter who starts it, the presence of US nuclear weapons on their soil would make both South Korea and Japan certain targets of missiles fired from North Korea. They would have virtually no warning of such an attack and no means to defend themselves against it. So their only effective defense would be to rid themselves of those bases and thus create a nuclear-free buffer zone.
Good theory but the US has ABMs mounted on ships.
And that is, of course, North Korea's goal. Not to threaten the superpowers of the world, but to neutralize the nuclear threat of total annihilation that has existed for decades just across its border.
That sounds reasonable, yes.
Seen in that light, North Korean strategy doesn't seem nearly as "crazy" as it has been portrayed in the western press.
Not true... the bottom stage is one of their existing rockets, not a new one.
The "official" story is that the test was a failure because the rocket was destroyed only one minute after launch.
Personally I think the destruction was intentional.
In my opinion the launch was more of a demonstration than a test. Certainly the rocket engine had been test fired many times on a testing block.
It was necessary to claim it was a satellite launch in order to stifle criticism in the worldwide press. It was also necessary to destruct the missile before it entered Japanese airspace. Japan had announced its intention to shoot down the rocket, and in fact both Japan and the US deployed anti-missile batteries throughout Japanese territory. So destructing the rocket was the only way to avoid a major incident.
Not true... the path of the missile was due South, passing between China and Japan. Not over Japanese airspace.
Seen in that light I would say North Korea attained their objective. They demonstrated that they have a working ICBM booster and can therefore hit US cities if they are attacked.
The objective is not to threaten the US, but rather to convince South Korea and Japan to rethink their alliance with the US.
The US can no longer offer either a market for their products nor any sort of viable military protection.
In any nuclear conflict, no matter who starts it, the presence of US nuclear weapons on their soil would make both South Korea and Japan certain targets of missiles fired from North Korea. They would have virtually no warning of such an attack and no means to defend themselves against it. So their only effective defense would be to rid themselves of those bases and thus create a nuclear-free buffer zone.
Good theory but the US has ABMs mounted on ships.
And that is, of course, North Korea's goal. Not to threaten the superpowers of the world, but to neutralize the nuclear threat of total annihilation that has existed for decades just across its border.
That sounds reasonable, yes.
Seen in that light, North Korean strategy doesn't seem nearly as "crazy" as it has been portrayed in the western press.
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Conrad73: Ray's numbers have a flaw,if the Rocket traveled 1900 miles in 60 seconds it means that the average speed of the Rocket was 1900/60=31.666666mi/sec!
Something isn't right!
Something isn't right!
It exploded in 90 seconds but continued to travel down range until it fell into the sea. I other words, it did not come straight down upon exploding. Simple physics.
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ttom500: Sorry Ray. You make a multi dollar rocket for a 90 second demonstration flight? And it take a 10-14 minutes to reach LEO orbit of a altitude of 150 miles....so no way Hose' does this baby fly 1900 miles in 90 second. LOL................
I like your posts Tom because your claims are always so easy to prove false.
"...both US and South Korean officials said no satellite made it into orbit, although the rocket travelled twice as far, 1,900 miles, as previous tests had managed".
"The second stage of the rocket, though, flew 1,900 miles, a significant greater distance than seen in the 2006 test of the long-range Taepodong 2, the Associated Press reported."
"Though the U.S. and South Korea say the rocket's payload fell into the Pacific, the rocket traveled 1,900 miles — twice as far as anything the North previously sent up."
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lou460: It exploded in 90 seconds but continued to travel down range until it fell into the sea. I other words, it did not come straight down upon exploding. Simple physics.
was commenting on the Speed of the Thing,that's all!
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doubt that was a Satellite-Launch!
Doubt there even was one on board!
Doubt there even was one on board!
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RayfromUSA: I think the whole world agrees that the rocket launch by North Korea was not really intended to put a satellite in orbit as stated. It was in fact the test of a multi-stage ICBM, or rather, just the booster stage (the other stage rockets being already in use).
The "official" story is that the test was a failure because the rocket was destroyed only one minute after launch.
Personally I think the destruction was intentional.
In my opinion the launch was more of a demonstration than a test. Certainly the rocket engine had been test fired many times on a testing block.
It was necessary to claim it was a satellite launch in order to stifle criticism in the worldwide press. It was also necessary to destruct the missile before it entered Japanese airspace. Japan had announced its intention to shoot down the rocket, and in fact both Japan and the US deployed anti-missile batteries throughout Japanese territory. So destructing the rocket was the only way to avoid a major incident.
Seen in that light I would say North Korea attained their objective. They demonstrated that they have a working ICBM booster and can therefore hit US cities if they are attacked.
The objective is not to threaten the US, but rather to convince South Korea and Japan to rethink their alliance with the US.
The US can no longer offer either a market for their products nor any sort of viable military protection.
In any nuclear conflict, no matter who starts it, the presence of US nuclear weapons on their soil would make both South Korea and Japan certain targets of missiles fired from North Korea. They would have virtually no warning of such an attack and no means to defend themselves against it. So their only effective defense would be to rid themselves of those bases and thus create a nuclear-free buffer zone.
And that is, of course, North Korea's goal. Not to threaten the superpowers of the world, but to neutralize the nuclear threat of total annihilation that has existed for decades just across its border.
Seen in that light, North Korean strategy doesn't seem nearly as "crazy" as it has been portrayed in the western press.
The "official" story is that the test was a failure because the rocket was destroyed only one minute after launch.
Personally I think the destruction was intentional.
In my opinion the launch was more of a demonstration than a test. Certainly the rocket engine had been test fired many times on a testing block.
It was necessary to claim it was a satellite launch in order to stifle criticism in the worldwide press. It was also necessary to destruct the missile before it entered Japanese airspace. Japan had announced its intention to shoot down the rocket, and in fact both Japan and the US deployed anti-missile batteries throughout Japanese territory. So destructing the rocket was the only way to avoid a major incident.
Seen in that light I would say North Korea attained their objective. They demonstrated that they have a working ICBM booster and can therefore hit US cities if they are attacked.
The objective is not to threaten the US, but rather to convince South Korea and Japan to rethink their alliance with the US.
The US can no longer offer either a market for their products nor any sort of viable military protection.
In any nuclear conflict, no matter who starts it, the presence of US nuclear weapons on their soil would make both South Korea and Japan certain targets of missiles fired from North Korea. They would have virtually no warning of such an attack and no means to defend themselves against it. So their only effective defense would be to rid themselves of those bases and thus create a nuclear-free buffer zone.
And that is, of course, North Korea's goal. Not to threaten the superpowers of the world, but to neutralize the nuclear threat of total annihilation that has existed for decades just across its border.
Seen in that light, North Korean strategy doesn't seem nearly as "crazy" as it has been portrayed in the western press.
Ever think it was shot down? There are lazer weapons that are capable of that. Wouldn't that be a way of saying don't mess with us?
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duckrew: Ever think it was shot down? There are lazer weapons that are capable of that. Wouldn't that be a way of saying don't mess with us?
would have been the perfect Target for one of those new weapons!------ This thread is Archived ------
MADDOG69: Cool story, bro.
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North Korea has the funds to launch a rocket, they can feed their people
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Lou460:
...... the bottom stage is one of their existing rockets, not a new one.
Yes, but it had failed on a previous test, and what's more it had since been modified to increase its range. It was indeed the booster capacity that they wanted to prove. The second stage fired as well and covered a lot more distance, and it was the first time it was tested so that was important too. But it was the booster that really had to prove itself.
The 90 second figure may be just western propaganda, but clearly the rocket traveled a total of 1900 miles. Even after burnout it would have fallen a couple hundred miles before hitting the sea.
The typical burnout speed of an ICBM booster is about 5 mps, and the solid fuel second stage accelerates quickly to well over twice that. And apparently the second stage finished its entire burn.
If we figure an average of 8 mps for the entire flight it would have taken about 4 minutes for the rocket to go 1900 miles.
Since the distance covered is pretty well established, if there is an error I'd say its the 90 second burntime cited by the US that is in error.
...... the bottom stage is one of their existing rockets, not a new one.
Yes, but it had failed on a previous test, and what's more it had since been modified to increase its range. It was indeed the booster capacity that they wanted to prove. The second stage fired as well and covered a lot more distance, and it was the first time it was tested so that was important too. But it was the booster that really had to prove itself.
The 90 second figure may be just western propaganda, but clearly the rocket traveled a total of 1900 miles. Even after burnout it would have fallen a couple hundred miles before hitting the sea.
The typical burnout speed of an ICBM booster is about 5 mps, and the solid fuel second stage accelerates quickly to well over twice that. And apparently the second stage finished its entire burn.
If we figure an average of 8 mps for the entire flight it would have taken about 4 minutes for the rocket to go 1900 miles.
Since the distance covered is pretty well established, if there is an error I'd say its the 90 second burntime cited by the US that is in error.
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terbear57: North Korea has the funds to launch a rocket, they can feed their people
The US is the brokest nation on earth, with trillions of dollars of debt and no industry to speak of. Yet somehow they find the money to invade countries and maintain a huge military presence all over the world.
When China stops supporting the US with credit, there will be more hunger in the US than in Korea. And that could happen anytime.
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The "official" story is that the test was a failure because the rocket was destroyed only one minute after launch.
Personally I think the destruction was intentional.
In my opinion the launch was more of a demonstration than a test. Certainly the rocket engine had been test fired many times on a testing block.
It was necessary to claim it was a satellite launch in order to stifle criticism in the worldwide press. It was also necessary to destruct the missile before it entered Japanese airspace. Japan had announced its intention to shoot down the rocket, and in fact both Japan and the US deployed anti-missile batteries throughout Japanese territory. So destructing the rocket was the only way to avoid a major incident.
Seen in that light I would say North Korea attained their objective. They demonstrated that they have a working ICBM booster and can therefore hit US cities if they are attacked.
The objective is not to threaten the US, but rather to convince South Korea and Japan to rethink their alliance with the US.
The US can no longer offer either a market for their products nor any sort of viable military protection.
In any nuclear conflict, no matter who starts it, the presence of US nuclear weapons on their soil would make both South Korea and Japan certain targets of missiles fired from North Korea. They would have virtually no warning of such an attack and no means to defend themselves against it. So their only effective defense would be to rid themselves of those bases and thus create a nuclear-free buffer zone.
And that is, of course, North Korea's goal. Not to threaten the superpowers of the world, but to neutralize the nuclear threat of total annihilation that has existed for decades just across its border.
Seen in that light, North Korean strategy doesn't seem nearly as "crazy" as it has been portrayed in the western press.