Occupied six counties... (82)
snowlynx: No she doesn't know what's going on, she hasn't a clue. If she did she would understand that the only reason she is still alive is because of the Brits and the protection they gave her. Unfortunately like you she has the victimhood complex and doesn't see that the main cause of the troubles were her 'own side'.
Well I fully agree with the sentiments expressed by Phoenix and Witty. The main reasons for the troubles in Ireland were the long usurption of the rights of the indigenous Irish people firstly by the British and then by their artifically created Unionist statelet. You say the only reason she is alive today is because of the Brits and the protection they gave her. I would like you to expand or clarify the senario you envisage, that makes that a relevent comment in your opinion. I for one feel that the 26 counties abandoned their fellow Irishmen and women in (six counties) 1922 and only a resurgent IRA in 1971 changed the shameful status quoPhoenix: Snowy, you owe witty an apology. There isn't a political bone in her body. I'm basing my opinion on one simple fact. Anytime I've brought up the emotive subject of the o6c she always avoids them until this one.
But she knows more about whats going on than you ever will. But she shows restraint and bites her wee tongue. That was until you causally brushed aside events in Derry in 1972 when the BA shot and killed 14 innocent people at a civil rights march in her home town.
I can be accused of having a heirarchy of killings and I'll take it on the chin. I can accept republican volunteers being killed while on actice service. But I drw the line when state forces either openly or covertly kill innocent people or unarmed volunteers.
But she knows more about whats going on than you ever will. But she shows restraint and bites her wee tongue. That was until you causally brushed aside events in Derry in 1972 when the BA shot and killed 14 innocent people at a civil rights march in her home town.
I can be accused of having a heirarchy of killings and I'll take it on the chin. I can accept republican volunteers being killed while on actice service. But I drw the line when state forces either openly or covertly kill innocent people or unarmed volunteers.
Only a democrat has the right to demand the highest standards from the state security forces....a supporter of terrorism doesn't have that right. It's a subtle concept but basically it's best described as 'wanting to have it both ways'!
snowlynx: Only a democrat has the right to demand the highest standards from the state security forces....a supporter of terrorism doesn't have that right. It's a subtle concept but basically it's best described as 'wanting to have it both ways'!
Like the monkeys supporting the loyalists holding illegal protests in Belfast today.
Peter Robinson (leader of the Democratic Unionist Party) has called for the protest to stop. But his party print 40,000 leaflets in Alliance party colours telling people to hold illegal street protests outside peoples homes, petrol bomb cops,plant blast bombs, issue death threats, oppose a democratic vote in flying the flag of the Union on certain days....
Not mentioning the hardship they are inflicting on their own communties and actually putting buisness men out of buiness.
The largest Democratic party in the o6c can't accept a democratic vote snowy...Think about it, then think about it again.
gleneagle: Well I fully agree with the sentiments expressed by Phoenix and Witty. The main reasons for the troubles in Ireland were the long usurption of the rights of the indigenous Irish people firstly by the British and then by their artifically created Unionist statelet. You say the only reason she is alive today is because of the Brits and the protection they gave her. I would like you to expand or clarify the senario you envisage, that makes that a relevent comment in your opinion. I for one feel that the 26 counties abandoned their fellow Irishmen and women in (six counties) 1922 and only a resurgent IRA in 1971 changed the shameful status quo
What I mean is that if the Brits had pulled out like the provos wanted them to there would have been civil war in Belfast and the prods would have killed or driven out the catholics. Do you really think that that wouldn't have happened?
Phoenix: During the 70's, 80's 90's the PIRA policed my area. It wasn't the RUC who arrested the hoods for breaking into my parents house and stealing the VCR. It was a local unit of the PIRA who took them to one side and knee capped them.
Aw will you ever get real!!!
I'm not talking about a few hoods breaking into houses!! I'm talking about armed loyalist mobs destroying catholic areas if the Brits hadn't stopped them. Are you really that naive that you think the prods would'nt have done that in the seventies and eighties if they had been allowed? And with their superior numbers and fire power they would have succeded and you family would either be dead now or living in a refugee hostel in the south.
snowlynx: What I mean is that if the Brits had pulled out like the provos wanted them to there would have been civil war in Belfast and the prods would have killed or driven out the catholics. Do you really think that that wouldn't have happened?
lol? The opposite would have happened for a number of reasons.
MADDOG69: lol? The opposite would have happened for a number of reasons.
In what way?
snowlynx: The people rioting and making a nuisance of themselves are dangerous people, can I ask you if you think that an Irish government would have the military power to keep them under control? I think it's pretty clear that they wouldn't, only the Brits can control them.
What 'Military power'? This is a police action. From the military point of view I thought there was only 3,000 now in barracks.
MADDOG69: What 'Military power'? This is a police action. From the military point of view I thought there was only 3,000 now in barracks.
Yeah but they could bring over huge numbers at a moment's notice.
snowlynx: In what way?
Historically, the Nationalist and Republican Paramilitaries have been far better armed and far better funded and far better organised than their opposing loyalists and Unionist paramilitaries. There's a few reasons for this. NORAID kept the Republicans well funded aside from other domestic sources. Also, the middle class, those that would not be so prone to get involved with armed conflict, encompassed far more of the loyalist/unionist population than the Republican/Nationalist side, who were more working class. The unemployment numbers in the UK for decades consistently showed that as a social group, the Northern Irish Nationalist community had some of the highest rates, followed closely by Scotland and North Eastern England. Higher unemployment in communities = more of a disgruntled pool to influence.
snowlynx: The people rioting and making a nuisance of themselves are dangerous people, can I ask you if you think that an Irish government would have the military power to keep them under control? I think it's pretty clear that they wouldn't, only the Brits can control them.
Your attitude is akin to Thatcher snowy. Today could the Irish state forces subvert extreme loyaism/unionism probably.
But the point you miss wether deliberate or otherwise is this...The people flaming the situtation on the streets of Belfast, Derry and now Glawgow is the largest Democratic party in the o6c. And the PSNI do nothing. While a few months ago and in 2010 republicans held a sit down protest on the Crumlin road and the PSNI dragged them of the road, arrested and then imprisoned them. Snowny where is the parity of esteem? Loyalists can hold illegal protests but republicans can't?
What I do know is for the last 40yrs the might of the British Army couldn't subvert either violent Reuplicans or violent Loyalists. So your argument about the 'Brits' keeping everything under control falls flat on it's face.
Part of the reason for the 1994 cesaefire and then the 1997 ceasefire is because Gerry Adams entered into talks with Fr Alec Reid in the mid-late 80's and someone opened the 'back Channel' to Mike Oatley via a contact in witty's home town.
What pissed republicans off is while Gerry Adams was suing for peace secretly he was advocating war openly, sending volunteers out to be killed or imprisoned.
During the same time Mi5 set up along with Ulster resistance (who's leaders were Ian Paisley and Peter Robinson) imported arms from South Africa to arm Loyalist Paramilitaries.
The people who you say defended people like witty and myself armed the UDA,UVF,Red Hand Comando's..Square that circle snowy..?
Or this one..
A secret covert group within the BA called the FRU AKA The DET, 14th intelligence, MRF recruited people from both sides to keep sectarianism alive.
I have a better understanding of who did what snowy. You have a skewed, warped view.
snowlynx: Aw will you ever get real!!!
I'm not talking about a few hoods breaking into houses!! I'm talking about armed loyalist mobs destroying catholic areas if the Brits hadn't stopped them. .
I'm not talking about a few hoods breaking into houses!! I'm talking about armed loyalist mobs destroying catholic areas if the Brits hadn't stopped them. .
And I told you who defended my area. Trust me it was the PIRA not the BA or RUC. I was there so I think I ouught to know.
MADDOG69: What 'Military power'? This is a police action. From the military point of view I thought there was only 3,000 now in barracks.
Something like that..
snowlynx: Yeah but they could bring over huge numbers at a moment's notice.
Not a chance. They are not only over stretched becuase of Iraq and Afghan. But cut backs made by Gordon Brown and Call me Dave make it almost impossible for the Brit. Gov. To have upwards of 20,000 BA billeted in the o6c today. As the had during the troubles.
HappyDays1980: [quote=Phoenix
There is also a real chance that once Ireland takes the reigns in Jan in Europe and if William Hague gets his his way he'll ask Enda to rejoin the commonwealth and ask him to leave Europe. Meaning Lizzie is Head of state and not Joe Higgins.
Sorry but i just can't see that happening, the country would go into riot mode and it will attract international attention.
There is also a real chance that once Ireland takes the reigns in Jan in Europe and if William Hague gets his his way he'll ask Enda to rejoin the commonwealth and ask him to leave Europe. Meaning Lizzie is Head of state and not Joe Higgins.
Sorry but i just can't see that happening, the country would go into riot mode and it will attract international attention.
as much as I'd hate to have anything to do with the brits..we would be in a far better off position economically if the whole Island rejoined the commonwealth but like you I think the majority of people would go ballistic..It would be understandable too
Phoenix: Your attitude is akin to Thatcher snowy. Today could the Irish state forces subvert extreme loyaism/unionism probably.
But the point you miss wether deliberate or otherwise is this...The people flaming the situtation on the streets of Belfast, Derry and now Glawgow is the largest Democratic party in the o6c. And the PSNI do nothing. While a few months ago and in 2010 republicans held a sit down protest on the Crumlin road and the PSNI dragged them of the road, arrested and then imprisoned them. Snowny where is the parity of esteem? Loyalists can hold illegal protests but republicans can't?
What I do know is for the last 40yrs the might of the British Army couldn't subvert either violent Reuplicans or violent Loyalists. So your argument about the 'Brits' keeping everything under control falls flat on it's face.
Part of the reason for the 1994 cesaefire and then the 1997 ceasefire is because Gerry Adams entered into talks with Fr Alec Reid in the mid-late 80's and someone opened the 'back Channel' to Mike Oatley via a contact in witty's home town.
What pissed republicans off is while Gerry Adams was suing for peace secretly he was advocating war openly, sending volunteers out to be killed or imprisoned.
During the same time Mi5 set up along with Ulster resistance (who's leaders were Ian Paisley and Peter Robinson) imported arms from South Africa to arm Loyalist Paramilitaries.
The people who you say defended people like witty and myself armed the UDA,UVF,Red Hand Comando's..Square that circle snowy..?
Or this one..
A secret covert group within the BA called the FRU AKA The DET, 14th intelligence, MRF recruited people from both sides to keep sectarianism alive.
I have a better understanding of who did what snowy. You have a skewed, warped view.
But the point you miss wether deliberate or otherwise is this...The people flaming the situtation on the streets of Belfast, Derry and now Glawgow is the largest Democratic party in the o6c. And the PSNI do nothing. While a few months ago and in 2010 republicans held a sit down protest on the Crumlin road and the PSNI dragged them of the road, arrested and then imprisoned them. Snowny where is the parity of esteem? Loyalists can hold illegal protests but republicans can't?
What I do know is for the last 40yrs the might of the British Army couldn't subvert either violent Reuplicans or violent Loyalists. So your argument about the 'Brits' keeping everything under control falls flat on it's face.
Part of the reason for the 1994 cesaefire and then the 1997 ceasefire is because Gerry Adams entered into talks with Fr Alec Reid in the mid-late 80's and someone opened the 'back Channel' to Mike Oatley via a contact in witty's home town.
What pissed republicans off is while Gerry Adams was suing for peace secretly he was advocating war openly, sending volunteers out to be killed or imprisoned.
During the same time Mi5 set up along with Ulster resistance (who's leaders were Ian Paisley and Peter Robinson) imported arms from South Africa to arm Loyalist Paramilitaries.
The people who you say defended people like witty and myself armed the UDA,UVF,Red Hand Comando's..Square that circle snowy..?
Or this one..
A secret covert group within the BA called the FRU AKA The DET, 14th intelligence, MRF recruited people from both sides to keep sectarianism alive.
I have a better understanding of who did what snowy. You have a skewed, warped view.
Square the circle? No need! the fact that they armed the UDA ext does not take away from the fact that they also protected you from a loyalist pogrom. There is no incompatibility between both those things! If you were objective you would understand that but you aren't so the basic logic of the fact escapes you.
You have no understanding of what happened in the North simply because your mind was poisoned by propaganda from the start. Without objectivity there can be no understanding!
Phoenix: And I told you who defended my area. Trust me it was the PIRA not the BA or RUC. I was there so I think I ouught to know.
The IRA defended your area in 69 but the Brits defended it after that and are still defending it now.
If you were in any way objective you would see that and be grateful to them for doing that, rather than hoping they go and leave you to a civil war.
snowlynx: The IRA defended your area in 69 but the Brits defended it after that and are still defending it now.
If you were in any way objective you would see that and be grateful to them for doing that, rather than hoping they go and leave you to a civil war.
If you were in any way objective you would see that and be grateful to them for doing that, rather than hoping they go and leave you to a civil war.
They didn't defend it when the Shankill Butchers were on a killing spree and tortured innocent catholics.
They let Scap. get away with somewhere of the region of 50 murders (in fact they paid him something like 80,000GBP of tax payers money for around 20/25 yrsç..Once Scap was uncovered a Judge banned all papers printing his photo or his wereabouts..
They BA/State forces supplied the UDA with 85% of their intelligence.
Who protected who snowy? It wasn't the BA..
MADDOG69: Really? How's Pakistan, Nigeria, Ghana, Rwanda doing? The Commonwealth is a redundant political construct that does nothing for no-one, really, besides a bit of British 'Soft Power'.
rejoin the UK then..its all the 1 to me ..commonwealth whatever fancy name they put on it
More Threads
other can see but not you
Don Shits-In-Pants!!!
everything is changing
Common Issues with the BMW X1
The Best of the GOP
Sleepy Don!
your personality
rarotonga
Salami, Salami, Baloney
Icebergs Still Around
More Threads
Report threads that break rules, are offensive, or contain fighting. Staff may not be aware of the forum abuse, and cannot do anything about it unless you tell us about it. click to report forum abuse »
If one of the comments is offensive, please report the comment instead (there is a link in each comment to report it).
If one of the comments is offensive, please report the comment instead (there is a link in each comment to report it).
I'm under no doubt that witty is more clued up about events in the o6c than you'll be. The fact she stays away from these types of threads is very different to what you are trying to imply.
Now would you like me to explain who defended Ardoyne during the pogroms of 69/70? It was the state forces but a handfull of PIRA volunteers, a few .303's and a Thompson machine gun and very little in the way of bullets. What they done (people like Martin Meehan) fired one shot down one street to keep loyalists at bay, moved to the next street and fired a round or two, moved to another street and did the same giving the illusion they were better armed than they actually were. Thats not fantasy or folklore but a historical fact.