why is there so much corruption in goverment in ireland (100)
snowlynx: I'm pretty sure Mary Lou was in FF not the PDs?
Anyway interesting about your past GG, not too many Marxists around! were you a member of any particular party/movement?
Anyway interesting about your past GG, not too many Marxists around! were you a member of any particular party/movement?
Lots of people were Left when they were in college or of those years. I still remember attending a Shinner talk in Uni with my Aristocratic Protestant friend.... I think when people start paying their own bills and get a clue as to what the world is made of, they grow up and stop being Left. Then again... not everyone grows up. (no disrespect to Goldengloss meant 
)Hi Snowlynx and MadDog, Thanks for your comments. Firstly, Snowlynx, i'm afraid i read your post quickly today and i always write straight from the heart. I don't ponder enough as in, I didnot articulate what I was trying to say, also time, the amount of space alloted here on a forum doesnt really do any favours to such a huge concept... that of self Government.
Firstly, MadDog, 'dont know where you got the impression that I am somewhat of a middle class Socialist/leftie lol. If you read my posts I specifically said that I was
totally disallusioned with Governments and Trade unions. OR words to that effect. I was perhaps niave to put down the fact that I was involved to some extent in street protests, I was a member of various very leftWing Groups, and was a Connolly Youth Movement menber, Communist for awhile. But I didnot put this down as a brave statement or as if to say 'I know it all' .... I dont !!
Far from it, the more I learnt and watche as people got into power and 'moved on' or 'grew up ' as you rightly say, I saw them take big jobs with huge salaries and become like the people and Capitalists they purported to hate !!!I thought I made that clear? No you got me wrong guys, I am not a leftie. I am not a University graduate and am mainly self schooled and very well read [so you ignore the typhos and spelling errors] they come from the fact that I have Arthritis in my hands and also, I walked away from the Toxic School system at a very very young age.
I dont mean to be rude but I am not going to do a CV for somebodys amusement [no offence meant] Cyberland is not safe and you dont know who is reading this. I may be blonde, but i am not dumb.
I think it is a pity that Socialism cannot be the order of the day, many of the facets of same are infact Christianity and basic humanity towards our fellow beings. I despair now of our country and don't think Anarcy is the answer, I would love to hark back to the days of Saints and Scholars and you rightly said people came to be educated here. Now we send our kids to Speech and Drama to get them to speak with a Westbrit accent. 'Pocket of Crosps' type accent !!!
I would be v interested to know how you would go about this self governing in the present climate of Crime, selfishness, Americanisation via Advertising/TV drivel we are fed. Thanks for reading this x
Firstly, MadDog, 'dont know where you got the impression that I am somewhat of a middle class Socialist/leftie lol. If you read my posts I specifically said that I was
totally disallusioned with Governments and Trade unions. OR words to that effect. I was perhaps niave to put down the fact that I was involved to some extent in street protests, I was a member of various very leftWing Groups, and was a Connolly Youth Movement menber, Communist for awhile. But I didnot put this down as a brave statement or as if to say 'I know it all' .... I dont !! Far from it, the more I learnt and watche as people got into power and 'moved on' or 'grew up ' as you rightly say, I saw them take big jobs with huge salaries and become like the people and Capitalists they purported to hate !!!I thought I made that clear? No you got me wrong guys, I am not a leftie. I am not a University graduate and am mainly self schooled and very well read [so you ignore the typhos and spelling errors] they come from the fact that I have Arthritis in my hands and also, I walked away from the Toxic School system at a very very young age.I dont mean to be rude but I am not going to do a CV for somebodys amusement [no offence meant] Cyberland is not safe and you dont know who is reading this. I may be blonde, but i am not dumb.
I think it is a pity that Socialism cannot be the order of the day, many of the facets of same are infact Christianity and basic humanity towards our fellow beings. I despair now of our country and don't think Anarcy is the answer, I would love to hark back to the days of Saints and Scholars and you rightly said people came to be educated here. Now we send our kids to Speech and Drama to get them to speak with a Westbrit accent. 'Pocket of Crosps' type accent !!!
I would be v interested to know how you would go about this self governing in the present climate of Crime, selfishness, Americanisation via Advertising/TV drivel we are fed. Thanks for reading this x
P.S. sorry post was so long - MARY LOU WAS INFACT IN THE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS. YOU CAN CHECK IT OUT IF YOU WANT. I REMEMBER HER WELL.
goldengloss: P.S. sorry post was so long - MARY LOU WAS INFACT IN THE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS. YOU CAN CHECK IT OUT IF YOU WANT. I REMEMBER HER WELL.
When was Mary Lou in the PDS, she was in FF in the 1990's and she was closely linked to the FF Senator Mary White?
I have a couple of friends who were in the PDS in Dublin in the 90's and noughties, I'll have to ask them about Mary Lou.
lol Yeah it's alright Goldengloss. Wasn't referring to you most of my post anyway... 
goldengloss:
However, things and people did not remain the same
However, things and people did not remain the same
Supermarkets run themselves. A complex operation from factory and farm to the shelf, to the consumer with no government involvement. Look at eBay or Amazon. People trade freely without government.
I don't have all the answers to the many issues you raised but here are some thoughts on each of them.
Irish MEN went to fight for the British because they were brainwashed by Statist education.
Without a State the police force would no longer prosecute victimeless crimes. They would provide security at the command of the community, not the politicians. They would not find violence cheap (without consequence) so they would act much differently than they do today. Armed communities and their militias (no need for a military) would organise their own defence or pay others to do it professionally. Their choice depending on the need. West Cork and West Dublin would have different needs.
The drug/criminal gangs exist because of the State prohibition on drugs. Decriminalise drugs and treat addicts as a health issue, not a criminal issue and the 'problem' will disappear.
The courts would remain in place. They are common law, not State law, but would not spend as much time locking up people for cannabis plants, importing garlic and all the other silly stuff they waste our money on today. There would be no need to threaten people with prison for not obeying the State because there would be no State. We would only inforce laws for breach of contract or where aggression and theft was involved.
Who overlooks the Banking system? You're joking? God forbid we would have a financial collapse or anything, without a State..... ha ha ha
The banks will be redundant quite soon anyway. Bitcoin and other cyber currencies don't require banks or regulation. You can send a million euro across the world in seconds for a couple of cent. No need for banks of credit cards or any of those expensive 'financial products'. You can buy and sell anything in cyber currencies, using your phone or ready-to-go card. This is the future and we can't go on living in the past with a medieval banking system
If someone wants to deal with a bank that will between them and the bank. If the bank is dodgy people will stop trading with it. There won't be a 'government' to run in and give it billions of our money I'm afraid. It will just go out of business. How sad that would be?
Hospitals, schools, roads and other services can be funded by those who use them or by other means. A few cent on every litre of fuel perhaps? Without the State a litre of fuel will be less than half price, so I think 10 cent on every litre to cover hospitals, roads, schools, insurance and road tax would be acceptable.
We don't have to be spiritual run a society. It's common sense, not mysticism. In todays world Statism is becoming obsolete. It's the really backward people who think we need 'leaders' to run our lives.
Look at the internet. Who governs it? I'm sure if you had been brought up with a Minister for the Internet and an Office of Internet Regulation you would be studying hard for your internet licence and saving up for the licence fee so you could browse the State approved sites at certain times. You would probably ask me, "but who will run the internet if we have no State"
The education system in most countries is the same, including Britain and the States, in trying to get young people to tow the line so I don't think it's the cause of the problems in this country. I'm really not sure what the problem is but it is certain that no one in power seems to be able to behave ethically. It seems that a dog eat dog attitude prevails and to hell with the people that they are meant to be helping. It reeks of moral bankruptcy.
RiverSong563: The education system in most countries is the same, including Britain and the States, in trying to get young people to tow the line
Correct but it is the problem. We would never submit to corruption and the control of corrupt people if we were not braiwashed into it.
Can't stream any videos at the moment. Brainwashing takes place in more places than schools. In fact, I never met anyone who wasn't brainwashed in one way or another. As an artist, freedom of thought is very important and being mindful of what corrupts that freedom is part of the process I go through. Schooling is only a minor cog in the machine.
facetowardsfront: Supermarkets run themselves. A complex operation from factory and farm to the shelf, to the consumer with no government involvement. Look at eBay or Amazon. People trade freely without government.
I don't have all the answers to the many issues you raised but here are some thoughts on each of them.
Irish MEN went to fight for the British because they were brainwashed by Statist education.
Without a State the police force would no longer prosecute victimeless crimes. They would provide security at the command of the community, not the politicians. They would not find violence cheap (without consequence) so they would act much differently than they do today. Armed communities and their militias (no need for a military) would organise their own defence or pay others to do it professionally. Their choice depending on the need. West Cork and West Dublin would have different needs.The drug/criminal gangs exist because of the State prohibition on drugs. Decriminalise drugs and treat addicts as a health issue, not a criminal issue and the 'problem' will disappear.
The courts would remain in place. They are common law, not State law, but would not spend as much time locking up people for cannabis plants, importing garlic and all the other silly stuff they waste our money on today. There would be no need to threaten people with prison for not obeying the State because there would be no State. We would only inforce laws for breach of contract or where aggression and theft was involved.
Who overlooks the Banking system? You're joking? God forbid we would have a financial collapse or anything, without a State..... ha ha ha
The banks will be redundant quite soon anyway. Bitcoin and other cyber currencies don't require banks or regulation. You can send a million euro across the world in seconds for a couple of cent. No need for banks of credit cards or any of those expensive 'financial products'. You can buy and sell anything in cyber currencies, using your phone or ready-to-go card. This is the future and we can't go on living in the past with a medieval banking system
If someone wants to deal with a bank that will between them and the bank. If the bank is dodgy people will stop trading with it. There won't be a 'government' to run in and give it billions of our money I'm afraid. It will just go out of business. How sad that would be?
Hospitals, schools, roads and other services can be funded by those who use them or by other means. A few cent on every litre of fuel perhaps? Without the State a litre of fuel will be less than half price, so I think 10 cent on every litre to cover hospitals, roads, schools, insurance and road tax would be acceptable.
We don't have to be spiritual run a society. It's common sense, not mysticism. In todays world Statism is becoming obsolete. It's the really backward people who think we need 'leaders' to run our lives.
Look at the internet. Who governs it? I'm sure if you had been brought up with a Minister for the Internet and an Office of Internet Regulation you would be studying hard for your internet licence and saving up for the licence fee so you could browse the State approved sites at certain times. You would probably ask me, "but who will run the internet if we have no State"
I don't have all the answers to the many issues you raised but here are some thoughts on each of them.
Irish MEN went to fight for the British because they were brainwashed by Statist education.
Without a State the police force would no longer prosecute victimeless crimes. They would provide security at the command of the community, not the politicians. They would not find violence cheap (without consequence) so they would act much differently than they do today. Armed communities and their militias (no need for a military) would organise their own defence or pay others to do it professionally. Their choice depending on the need. West Cork and West Dublin would have different needs.The drug/criminal gangs exist because of the State prohibition on drugs. Decriminalise drugs and treat addicts as a health issue, not a criminal issue and the 'problem' will disappear.
The courts would remain in place. They are common law, not State law, but would not spend as much time locking up people for cannabis plants, importing garlic and all the other silly stuff they waste our money on today. There would be no need to threaten people with prison for not obeying the State because there would be no State. We would only inforce laws for breach of contract or where aggression and theft was involved.
Who overlooks the Banking system? You're joking? God forbid we would have a financial collapse or anything, without a State..... ha ha ha
The banks will be redundant quite soon anyway. Bitcoin and other cyber currencies don't require banks or regulation. You can send a million euro across the world in seconds for a couple of cent. No need for banks of credit cards or any of those expensive 'financial products'. You can buy and sell anything in cyber currencies, using your phone or ready-to-go card. This is the future and we can't go on living in the past with a medieval banking system
If someone wants to deal with a bank that will between them and the bank. If the bank is dodgy people will stop trading with it. There won't be a 'government' to run in and give it billions of our money I'm afraid. It will just go out of business. How sad that would be?
Hospitals, schools, roads and other services can be funded by those who use them or by other means. A few cent on every litre of fuel perhaps? Without the State a litre of fuel will be less than half price, so I think 10 cent on every litre to cover hospitals, roads, schools, insurance and road tax would be acceptable.
We don't have to be spiritual run a society. It's common sense, not mysticism. In todays world Statism is becoming obsolete. It's the really backward people who think we need 'leaders' to run our lives.
Look at the internet. Who governs it? I'm sure if you had been brought up with a Minister for the Internet and an Office of Internet Regulation you would be studying hard for your internet licence and saving up for the licence fee so you could browse the State approved sites at certain times. You would probably ask me, "but who will run the internet if we have no State"
Very well written Face. Not having a go at you but who collects the money for hospitals etc. and regulates it in the absence of a state? Even if these amenities collect their own money off the people that use them as in your example does this mean they will be corruption proof?
If all social services across the land were to all become private enterprises they can charge what like,bitcoin or no bitcoin.
They are all going to have a power structure in place order to sustain themselves financially just like any government.So could a society without a state really work any better?
Hi, I happen to paint as well so there is great Freedon in Art/painting and self expression. I totally agree that we governed ourselves wayback when and we were known as the Land of Saints and Scholars, I just don't think it could work, for a myriad of reasons. Yes, the Internet DOES need to be regulated. for Gods sake !! I don't want to have to spell out all the reasons, the abductions, children being taken in by perverts etc.,
What is your alternative to sit up, be nice? A certain amount of politeness is badly needed from what I see on buses and towards the elderly. Gone are the days when my Grandma would tell me to go over and get the shopping list from my elderly neighbour and I was forbidden to take money for doing it. Was that so bad ? As for being Brainwashed, I have never met anyone who wasnt to some extent. Media is a very subtle tool as is Media. Its a very complex issue and I believe cannot be tackled adequately in this Forum. One basic issue of brainwashing would be the tryanny of ageing [mostly women but spreading to the male too] and the obsession with youth, botox, facelifts, this is more sinister than it looks, on the surface [pardon pun]. ~ Again its driving people from a point of fear 'nobody will love you' 'you must be thin and beautiful to be loved' [buy our products, get your teeth done for 20K and you will be adored ] ~ As somebody who has a little experience in counselling in the Drug arena can I say you are wrong about Drug addiction being treated not as a medical condition... every Drug Centre here has Alternative Therapy, Nutrition lessons, Budgeting, proper DeTox with Therapy, Art Therapy etc., so you are wrong there.
It is bad with our present governors if you could call them that but without anyone???? Mayhem. The Drug Situation wouldnt cease if heroin was legalised, you still have Greed. Think Oil. Think Gold. The fault is with Human Nature and the majority of people are afraid, want to be led, dont want to have to make huge life changing decisioins, like being told how to act, love following trends, and dont think too deeply. So, it is because of human nature our country became flawed [and historic issues made us a cap in hand people]. When Decency, altruism,Humanity, equality, no need to be boss, to be richer pervails, then we have some hope, until then.... it would be inviting mayhem. Which I guess we already have only its a hidden type of mayhem and quiet desparation.Hope I am making sense. Thanks for the discussion I do appreciate the points made and youve made a very good case.
What is your alternative to sit up, be nice? A certain amount of politeness is badly needed from what I see on buses and towards the elderly. Gone are the days when my Grandma would tell me to go over and get the shopping list from my elderly neighbour and I was forbidden to take money for doing it. Was that so bad ? As for being Brainwashed, I have never met anyone who wasnt to some extent. Media is a very subtle tool as is Media. Its a very complex issue and I believe cannot be tackled adequately in this Forum. One basic issue of brainwashing would be the tryanny of ageing [mostly women but spreading to the male too] and the obsession with youth, botox, facelifts, this is more sinister than it looks, on the surface [pardon pun]. ~ Again its driving people from a point of fear 'nobody will love you' 'you must be thin and beautiful to be loved' [buy our products, get your teeth done for 20K and you will be adored ] ~ As somebody who has a little experience in counselling in the Drug arena can I say you are wrong about Drug addiction being treated not as a medical condition... every Drug Centre here has Alternative Therapy, Nutrition lessons, Budgeting, proper DeTox with Therapy, Art Therapy etc., so you are wrong there.
It is bad with our present governors if you could call them that but without anyone???? Mayhem. The Drug Situation wouldnt cease if heroin was legalised, you still have Greed. Think Oil. Think Gold. The fault is with Human Nature and the majority of people are afraid, want to be led, dont want to have to make huge life changing decisioins, like being told how to act, love following trends, and dont think too deeply. So, it is because of human nature our country became flawed [and historic issues made us a cap in hand people]. When Decency, altruism,Humanity, equality, no need to be boss, to be richer pervails, then we have some hope, until then.... it would be inviting mayhem. Which I guess we already have only its a hidden type of mayhem and quiet desparation.Hope I am making sense. Thanks for the discussion I do appreciate the points made and youve made a very good case.
sirLarryIII: Very well written Face. Not having a go at you but who collects the money for hospitals etc. and regulates it in the absence of a state? Even if these amenities collect their own money off the people that use them as in your example does this mean they will be corruption proof?
If all social services across the land were to all become private enterprises they can charge what like,bitcoin or no bitcoin.
They are all going to have a power structure in place order to sustain themselves financially just like any government.So could a society without a state really work any better?
If all social services across the land were to all become private enterprises they can charge what like,bitcoin or no bitcoin.
They are all going to have a power structure in place order to sustain themselves financially just like any government.So could a society without a state really work any better?
Spot on Larry, of course a society without a state wouldn't work and the above is the stuff of fantasy. His argument has more holes than a sieve. For instance he talks of supermarkets but forgets to mention that without a government there would be no minimum wage for ordinary workers and they would be exploited.
His society would be great for the five percent of the wealthy and miserable for the other ninety-five percent.
Just on the subject of Supermarkets, they are very much regulated by Governments, via Minimum wage as somebody mentioned and of course there is acoountability regarding food sources and incoming meats, foods etc., [Dept of Agriculture] would we get rid of that ? Food safety board, the list is endless. As I said too long and detailed to get into but anyone who thinks that Ireland could run itself.... well all you need do is watch the amount of people talking on mobiles in Cars, and driving whilst drunk, Whats that got to do with Governing ourselves ? Everything. We are not people who would be particularly good at governing ourselves and Anarchy doesnt work because as Ive said and said all along people are selfish and theres always one or even a bundle [a govt?] who will want more of what the others have. Human Greed causes Govts to be a necessary Evil.. The whole debate is abit Student like for me. When you've lived in the real world and dealth with as many people and seen what can happen when people get into power the lofty ideals of a work together co - op type Ireland just drifts into Fantasy land. Happy Days all
RiverSong563: Brainwashing takes place in more places than schools
That is true but the minds of children are more easily bent to the will of the controllers. The media is continually brainwashing people. Every minute of every day we are told what some or other authority figure thinks we should do.
I would like to see Ireland be more like Hong Kong or Singapore when it comes to Free Market economics as well as a smaller government without the extreme authoritarianism that exists in Singapore, socialism or Its diet coke version Social Democracy doesn't work and has never worked. Europe is in major economic decline as a result of heavy taxation, bloated welfare States, bloated Public sectors that pay out unaffordable Defined benefit pension schemes to public sector workers.
Not just Europe but every country in the Western World including America have bloated welfare states that will be unaffordable in the next few decades due to ageing populations and a declining ratio of workers to retirees due to falling populations and people living longer.
What can be done to reverse this decline?
1) Increase the retirement age to at least 70 probably 72 by 2035 in Ireland, it will be 68 by 2028.
2) Privatization of the Social welfare system for anyone under 45, lets face facts, In a couple of decades time there will only be a ratio of less than 2.5 workers to 1 retiree.
3) Eventual privatization of the entire social security system, people will have to learn to stand on their own two feet in the next few decades.
4) Drastically cut taxes on business and labour so as to attract wealthy immigrants who can invest in Ireland. It's worked in Hong Kong and Singapore.
5) Put all public sector workers on Defined Contribution pension schemes, DB pensions are completely unaffordable.
Not just Europe but every country in the Western World including America have bloated welfare states that will be unaffordable in the next few decades due to ageing populations and a declining ratio of workers to retirees due to falling populations and people living longer.
What can be done to reverse this decline?
1) Increase the retirement age to at least 70 probably 72 by 2035 in Ireland, it will be 68 by 2028.
2) Privatization of the Social welfare system for anyone under 45, lets face facts, In a couple of decades time there will only be a ratio of less than 2.5 workers to 1 retiree.
3) Eventual privatization of the entire social security system, people will have to learn to stand on their own two feet in the next few decades.
4) Drastically cut taxes on business and labour so as to attract wealthy immigrants who can invest in Ireland. It's worked in Hong Kong and Singapore.
5) Put all public sector workers on Defined Contribution pension schemes, DB pensions are completely unaffordable.
Face, Do you support the privatization of primary and secondary schools in Ireland, would you like to see the welfare state abolished?
I despise Statism myself in the economy but I'm not a complete free market fundamentalist.
I despise Statism myself in the economy but I'm not a complete free market fundamentalist.
Ireland is a "reach for the begging bowl" type society and in my opinion anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. There is a huge dependency culture in this country that needs to be stamped out by the following measures.
1) Abolish all EU and state handouts to farmers, the majority of farms are loss making and need to go out of business.
2) Abolish the lone parent family payment, It's in a large way responsible for the collapse of the traditional family unit in many working class urban areas.
3) Abolish all handouts to the CIE Transport group, they need to stand on their own two feet.
4) Let failed banks go bust.
I believe in survival of the fittest when It comes to businesses, when not in farming and semi state companies as well?
1) Abolish all EU and state handouts to farmers, the majority of farms are loss making and need to go out of business.
2) Abolish the lone parent family payment, It's in a large way responsible for the collapse of the traditional family unit in many working class urban areas.
3) Abolish all handouts to the CIE Transport group, they need to stand on their own two feet.
4) Let failed banks go bust.
I believe in survival of the fittest when It comes to businesses, when not in farming and semi state companies as well?
kennyfromdublin: Ireland is a "reach for the begging bowl" type society and in my opinion anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. There is a huge dependency culture in this country that needs to be stamped out by the following measures.
1) Abolish all EU and state handouts to farmers, the majority of farms are loss making and need to go out of business.
2) Abolish the lone parent family payment, It's in a large way responsible for the collapse of the traditional family unit in many working class urban areas.
3) Abolish all handouts to the CIE Transport group, they need to stand on their own two feet.
4) Let failed banks go bust.
I believe in survival of the fittest when It comes to businesses, when not in farming and semi state companies as well?
There wuld be some job dealing with the farmers in giving them cut backs, the government are scared of them, one cut back on them and they will be thousands of tractors out on the roads, there the biggest lobby group in the country and payment from their cheques goes straight to barristers working on the behalf of the I.F.A. Look at the motor tax they put on the tractors recently it's only a pittance to what non farmer have to pay out, yep the big farmers have it very cushy but its the food producers who make the real bucks.1) Abolish all EU and state handouts to farmers, the majority of farms are loss making and need to go out of business.
2) Abolish the lone parent family payment, It's in a large way responsible for the collapse of the traditional family unit in many working class urban areas.
3) Abolish all handouts to the CIE Transport group, they need to stand on their own two feet.
4) Let failed banks go bust.
I believe in survival of the fittest when It comes to businesses, when not in farming and semi state companies as well?
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With regard Mary Lou. How could you possibly trust somebody who was in the Progressive Democrats and then crossed hedges to Sinn Fein, its like black and white surely ? an appropriate political move as they needed a middle class face.However, she sells herself as being 'for the underclass , the unemployed and against quangos, however recent coverage [including photos] showed her hosting a very posh bash in New York and believe me, Sinn Fein know how to cream off the political Petty cash box too. i think it is an insult to think the middle class have been fooled by Mary Lou, to me anyway, she is transparent, Gerry has his Bolthole in Donegal where he can retire to with his pension. Gawd it gets worse.
Agree with writer about Pearse Doherty.
I'm pretty sure Mary Lou was in FF not the PDs?
Anyway interesting about your past GG, not too many Marxists around! were you a member of any particular party/movement?