Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz ( Archived) (53)

Nov 12, 2015 10:28 PM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
raphael119
raphael119raphael119washington d.c., District of Columbia USA19 Threads 3 Polls 5,181 Posts
The repubs have painted themselves into a corner.
Their moto for decades has been tax cuts for the super rich, eliminate government, and a great economy. Tax cuts have made the rich richer and destroyed the middle class. Their hatred of government has turned Jeb Bush and establishment Republicans into pariahs, and the democrats have a far better record on the economy!!!!rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing

Now they face a near calamity with different factions at odds with eachother and two loonie tunes leading in their polls.rolling on the floor laughing
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Nov 12, 2015 10:34 PM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
illegals often work for cash, and cash or not they send a large portion of their money home/ out of the country so the positive impact to our economy is not there in great measure.

They are a drain. They overburden our schools and social services to the disadvantage of American children & families. They usually do not pay taxes. It is illegal to hire them so they work off the books. At the times when their visas are legal - at those times they do contribute, but still many send a large portion of their money out of the country. And we are talking about a large number of people. So the impact is a large negative one.

They strain the infrastructure, including our already crowded prisons, roads.

This is the short version. The ending is sad in any version because there are many good people who want to live here and do it legally with the education in American law and history needed to understand the country they wish to live in. Dealing with all of the illegals draws resources from processing the good ones.
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Nov 12, 2015 10:42 PM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
purr4mance
purr4mancepurr4manceCleveland, Ohio USA4,825 Posts
Undocumented Immigrants' State and Local Tax Contributions

Released April 16th, 2015

A new 50-state study, Undocumented Immigrants’ State and Local Tax Contributions, by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy finds that undocumented immigrants’ tax contributions would increase significantly under the Obama Administration’s executive actions and even more substantially under comprehensive immigration reform granting all undocumented immigrants lawful permanent residence.

The 11.4 million undocumented immigrants currently living in the United States collectively paid $11.84 billion in state and local taxes in 2012. ITEP’s analysis finds their combined nationwide state and local tax contributions would increase by $845 million under full implementation of the administration’s 2012 and 2014 executive actions and by $2.2 billion under comprehensive immigration reform.

“The fact is, undocumented immigrants already are paying billions in taxes to state and local governments, and if they are allowed to work in the country legally, their state and local tax contributions will increase significantly,” said Matthew Gardner, executive director of ITEP.
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Nov 12, 2015 10:50 PM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
Draegoneer
DraegoneerDraegoneerPrudenville, Michigan USA1 Threads 1,377 Posts
I didn't say illegal immigrants are the cause. You spun that in yourself.

We know they don't really help. Lower wages help citizens how? Illegals being hired over citizens will help citizens how? Government assistance for lowered wages help citizens how?

obama has been fighting for amnesty very hard. Your claims of higher deportation are false. It takes media power and murder for anything right to be done while wrong, in ignoring the laws, will still be the normal.

I suppose many won't pay attention to H-1B. It's not just median or blue collar jobs being affected by immigration and lack of enforcement towards immigration. Imported labor and immigrant labor affects citizens negatively at all levels.
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Nov 12, 2015 11:13 PM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
Draegoneer
DraegoneerDraegoneerPrudenville, Michigan USA1 Threads 1,377 Posts
Draegoneer: I didn't say illegal immigrants are the cause. You spun that in yourself.

We know they don't really help. Lower wages help citizens how? Illegals being hired over citizens will help citizens how? Government assistance for lowered wages help citizens how?

obama has been fighting for amnesty very hard. Your claims of higher deportation are false. It takes media power and murder for anything right to be done while wrong, in ignoring the laws, will still be the normal.

I suppose many won't pay attention to H-1B. It's not just median or blue collar jobs being affected by immigration and lack of enforcement towards immigration. Imported labor and immigrant labor affects citizens negatively at all levels.


Let's not forget the past news casts where immigration departments heads were grilled on why they weren't following through with deportations.

Just like many tout immigrant taxes? The mix of articles in my first post, points out that those primarily help federal while states and tax payers tend to support the blunt of government assistance.

To tout illegal immigrants taxes; one would first, have to consider: how many citizens are out jobs that would, also, be paying taxes.

I've no idea the number of early retirement stats any more for not being able to find jobs. It helps pad the numbers.

How many dropped and just collecting what ever it is they are getting. Some social security, some government assistance. It helps pad the numbers.

We are starting to close another seasonal trend of out side work: construction and repair, clean up, harvesting, and more. What will the numbers be then? Many illegal immigrants had many of those jobs too.
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Nov 12, 2015 11:30 PM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
sophiasummer
sophiasummersophiasummerNorthland, New Zealand112 Threads 6,528 Posts
lindsyjones: I don't know if some of you have watched the last debate which was orchestrated by Fox. Maria and the rest did a very splendid job on the questions and moderation.

Anyways, I am so impressed with the way Trump and Cruz addressed the immigration issue. When Cruz said, it is and economic issue (personal) and followed with the impact it does to our country specially in our economy.

I stand with Trump, I don't have anything against coming or going to any country. Just do it legally. Yet it is human nature to better our lives and in desperation, people do anything to have a good life, therefore it is in our policy that accounts our responsibility in protecting our borders. We must not completely blame and rely on the ethics of getting in legally, but must be with high conviction to prosecute and or deport illegals.

My recommendation is BUILD A BORDER that works.

What about you?



Nobody really cares who wins the election in USA.
There will always be borders/non borders.
Immigrants will always suffer.
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Nov 13, 2015 12:58 AM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
raphael119
raphael119raphael119washington d.c., District of Columbia USA19 Threads 3 Polls 5,181 Posts
The repub in Congress and the White House have pretended to be tough on illegal immigrants and failed to enforce the laws for over 30 years. Trump told the truth on that one. They did it because it helped the economy tremendously to have dirt cheap labor ,skilled and unskilled, that would break their backs for next to nothing. Even today I get landscaping and gutter cleaning for a song. Thirty years ago the gutterman acted like I was lucky he bothered with me
and I couldnt begin to afford lawn services.
The construction labor, houses and buildings, in metro D.C. has almost completely been done by middle and South Americans for thirty years. The illegal immigrants are paid in cash, sometimes daily, and they work in groups with an english speaking boss who disburses their pay to them. Similar for cleaning and some restaurants.
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Nov 13, 2015 1:16 AM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
bohemianjack
bohemianjackbohemianjackEast Central, Minnesota USA6 Threads 2 Polls 2,702 Posts
raphael119: The repub in Congress and the White House have pretended to be tough on illegal immigrants and failed to enforce the laws for over 30 years. Trump told the truth on that one. They did it because it helped the economy tremendously to have dirt cheap labor ,skilled and unskilled, that would break their backs for next to nothing. Even today I get landscaping and gutter cleaning for a song. Thirty years ago the gutterman acted like I was lucky he bothered with me
and I couldnt begin to afford lawn services.
The construction labor, houses and buildings, in metro D.C. has almost completely been done by middle and South Americans for thirty years. The illegal immigrants are paid in cash, sometimes daily, and they work in groups with an english speaking boss who disburses their pay to them. Similar for cleaning and some restaurants.


The English speaking boss, often legal, more than likely a rethug, paying less in taxes on income as a subcontractor while paying illegals cash that actually do the work.. wink
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Nov 13, 2015 2:25 AM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
loulou77
loulou77loulou77Vancouver, British Columbia Canada1 Threads 1,555 Posts
So it seems that if people are willing to employ others for cheap labour...that is the answer to the problem with illegal immigrants...you pay them to stay...why not blame the people that are willing and able to cheat the taxman...dunno
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Nov 13, 2015 4:19 AM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
raphael119
raphael119raphael119washington d.c., District of Columbia USA19 Threads 3 Polls 5,181 Posts
My position is we need the cheap labor , maybe a guest worker program etc. We need to keep out criminals and drugs. We dont need Trumps' fantasy about deporting everyone overnight with his superior management. He should go back to his no money down seminars.
Going after illegals employers Is a good idea, but rarely done due to politicians.jmho
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Nov 13, 2015 6:13 AM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
purr4mance
purr4mancepurr4manceCleveland, Ohio USA4,825 Posts
When analyzed from the vantage point of information derived from reputable, nonpartisan sources (the Pew Research Center, USDA, United States Department of Labor, and leading economists and researchers) then one can obtain a clearer view of this muddled discussion. The truth of the matter is that illegal immigrants are important to the U.S. economy, as well as vital to certain industries like agriculture.


The U.S. Department of Agriculture states that, “about half of the hired workers employed in U.S. crop agriculture were unauthorized, with the overwhelming majority of these workers coming from Mexico.” The USDA has also warned that, “any potential immigration reform could have significant impacts on the U.S. fruit and vegetable industry.” From the perspective of National Milk Producers Federation in 2009, retail milk prices would increase by 61 percent if its immigrant labor force were to be eliminated.

Echoing the Department of Labor, the USDA, and the National Milk Producers Federation, agricultural labor economist James S. Holt made the following statement to Congress in 2007: “The reality, however, is that if we deported a substantial number of undocumented farm workers, there would be a tremendous labor shortage.”

In terms of overall numbers, The Department of Labor reports that of the 2.5 million farm workers in the U.S., over half (53 percent) are illegal immigrants. Growers and labor unions put this figure at 70 percent.

But what about the immense strain on social services and money spent on welfare for these law breakers? The Congressional Budget Office in 2007 answered this question in the following manner: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.” According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.

Finally, the aggregate economic impact of illegal immigration is debatable, but any claim that they’ve ruined the country doesn’t correlate to the views of any notable economist. An open letter to President George W. Bush in 2006, signed by around five hundred economists (including five Nobel laureates) stated the following: “While a small percentage of native-born Americans may be harmed by immigration, vastly more Americans benefit from the contributions that immigrants make to our economy, including lower consumer prices.”

Although Harvard economist Jorge Borjas has stated that illegal immigrants from 1980-2000 have reduced the wages of high school dropouts in the U.S, he also states that the average American’s wealth has increased by 1 percent because of illegal immigration.

Some people claim that illegal immigrants represent an assault on our sovereignty. If this is true, then it might be the first time in world history that a country has employed its invaders. When illegal immigrants cross the border, there’s a citizen waiting to hire them and benefit in some manner from their labor. The sooner our country realizes that immigration reform should be based upon the views of economists and nonpartisan academic researchers, rather than think tanks and radio show hosts, then Congress will finally be able to help solve this national dilemma.

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Nov 13, 2015 8:51 AM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
lifeisadream
lifeisadreamlifeisadreamMexi Go, Mexico State Mexico156 Threads 20 Polls 16,713 Posts
purr4mance: When analyzed from the vantage point of information derived from reputable, nonpartisan sources (the Pew Research Center, USDA, United States Department of Labor, and leading economists and researchers) then one can obtain a clearer view of this muddled discussion. The truth of the matter is that illegal immigrants are important to the U.S. economy, as well as vital to certain industries like agriculture.The U.S. Department of Agriculture states that, “about half of the hired workers employed in U.S. crop agriculture were unauthorized, with the overwhelming majority of these workers coming from Mexico.” The USDA has also warned that, “any potential immigration reform could have significant impacts on the U.S. fruit and vegetable industry.” From the perspective of National Milk Producers Federation in 2009, retail milk prices would increase by 61 percent if its immigrant labor force were to be eliminated.

Echoing the Department of Labor, the USDA, and the National Milk Producers Federation, agricultural labor economist James S. Holt made the following statement to Congress in 2007: “The reality, however, is that if we deported a substantial number of undocumented farm workers, there would be a tremendous labor shortage.”

In terms of overall numbers, The Department of Labor reports that of the 2.5 million farm workers in the U.S., over half (53 percent) are illegal immigrants. Growers and labor unions put this figure at 70 percent.

But what about the immense strain on social services and money spent on welfare for these law breakers? The Congressional Budget Office in 2007 answered this question in the following manner: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.” According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.

Finally, the aggregate economic impact of illegal immigration is debatable, but any claim that they’ve ruined the country doesn’t correlate to the views of any notable economist. An open letter to President George W. Bush in 2006, signed by around five hundred economists (including five Nobel laureates) stated the following: “While a small percentage of native-born Americans may be harmed by immigration, vastly more Americans benefit from the contributions that immigrants make to our economy, including lower consumer prices.”

Although Harvard economist Jorge Borjas has stated that illegal immigrants from 1980-2000 have reduced the wages of high school dropouts in the U.S, he also states that the average American’s wealth has increased by 1 percent because of illegal immigration.

Some people claim that illegal immigrants represent an assault on our sovereignty. If this is true, then it might be the first time in world history that a country has employed its invaders. When illegal immigrants cross the border, there’s a citizen waiting to hire them and benefit in some manner from their labor. The sooner our country realizes that immigration reform should be based upon the views of economists and nonpartisan academic researchers, rather than think tanks and radio show hosts, then Congress will finally be able to help solve this national dilemma.



You might have just killed this thread but I bet you that there will be someone that will disagree with the 500 Economists (including the five Nobel laureates) laugh



coffee
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Nov 13, 2015 8:48 PM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
hotburninluv: It was the way a Republican Debate should be run! Great Job the Moderators
did asking the questions! Neil, the main host could have NOT said it any better than this, ending the debate with IT WAS NOT ABOUT US....BUT ABOUT THEM!!!!!!!!!!

Unlike the mainstream moderators from NBC,CBS,ABC, MSNBC that thinks its about THEM....trying to character assainate every Rebublican candiate they can, because you see they have always been and uncovered for what THEY REALLY ARE, that is, DNC OPERATIVE POSING AS JORNALISTS!

Shame on Maria for insinuating that Hillary Clinton (that wig -wearing Grandma, with her hair falling out for lying sooooooo much) has an such an impressive resume of accomplishments for doing ANYTHING! She the WORST SECRETARY OF STATE EVER!!!!!! She's still the lying "turd in the swimming pool" that EVERYONE wants to avoid! The Bengazi hearing prooved once again that she is an out and out "congentital liar"! She is DEFINETELY a FLAWED Candidate, facing a Federal Indictment from the FBI, if not the Obama regime DOJ, for using a illegal private Hillary.com computer server, while causing a breach of our national security.

Questions that will NEVER be asked of Hillary in ANY DEBATE!1) Why do you think so many people feel you are UNTRUSTWORTY!?

2) Do you realize having an illegal sever is ILLEGAL? Then why did you have one?

3) Do you realize using an illegal server for conducting International donations through your Clinton.com server is illegal?

3) You want to be the "people's Champion" Why? Most people fell your a "bald faced" LIAR!
4)How is the New Democratic party ANY differnt from SOCIALISM?

5) Do you think just because you have female genitia that you'll be a shoe-in for becoming the next President?
thumbs up
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Nov 13, 2015 8:52 PM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
lifeisadream: Not border will work.

Send all the illegal immigrants back to their own country and best end diplomatic-commercial relationships with Mexico so the 52 % of your problem will be finished.


Of course, border will work, only it entails a lot of money. Staffing the immigration office will also suffice faster processing of papers allowing them to come legally.
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Nov 13, 2015 8:54 PM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
lindsyjones: Of course, border will work, only it entails a lot of money. Staffing the immigration office will also suffice faster processing of papers allowing them to come legally.


I din't have the time to read all the topics but in short response to the needing of cheap labor as a justification of illegal immigration is baloney. Our unemployment is so high, so how can anyone needs cheap labor? Bull, this isn't fair. Everyone should and must be paid of lawful amount base on criteria imposed by the employer.
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Nov 14, 2015 7:01 AM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
JoyCrest
JoyCrestJoyCrestGeneva, Switzerland18 Threads 494 Posts
lindsyjones: I don't know if some of you have watched the last debate which was orchestrated by Fox. Maria and the rest did a very splendid job on the questions and moderation.

Anyways, I am so impressed with the way Trump and Cruz addressed the immigration issue. When Cruz said, it is and economic issue (personal) and followed with the impact it does to our country specially in our economy.

I stand with Trump, I don't have anything against coming or going to any country. Just do it legally. Yet it is human nature to better our lives and in desperation, people do anything to have a good life, therefore it is in our policy that accounts our responsibility in protecting our borders. We must not completely blame and rely on the ethics of getting in legally, but must be with high conviction to prosecute and or deport illegals.

My recommendation is BUILD A BORDER that works.

What about you?

No end in sight of this world problem and their phenomenon's reach is universal. No country is untouched or immune. Unidentified immigrants can pose a security threat in terms of criminal infiltration and terrorism...can this be a reason for the past terrorist activities in France? Unlike other countries, hotels are not required to ask for passports or IDs...(because doing so means invasion to privacy!) just credit cards or cash deposit......well, easier for organized crimes and terrorist plots....although police now can regularly control the papers in the street...unlawful immigrants can hide.... Yes, the largest absolute number of illegal immigrants is in the US, since they break laws and regulations to being in the country, it's not fair for those legals who worked hard for citizenship... I think one solution would be for the countries of origins to cooperate to spend for the deportation of their people involved.
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Nov 14, 2015 7:38 AM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
SistaCallie
SistaCallieSistaCalliePokemon, Texas USA139 Threads 1 Polls 795 Posts
I wonder how many millions of illegal 'AMERICANS' are living in Mexico for crime committed... hiding out, who should be prosecuted and deported back to America?

Let's not forget that ALL illegals in America are not from Mexico crossing the borders, who should be prosecuted and deported...
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Nov 14, 2015 11:39 AM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
lifeisadream
lifeisadreamlifeisadreamMexi Go, Mexico State Mexico156 Threads 20 Polls 16,713 Posts
SistaCallie: I wonder how many millions of illegal 'AMERICANS' are living in Mexico for crime committed... hiding out, who should be prosecuted and deported back to America?

Let's not forget that ALL illegals in America are not from Mexico crossing the borders, who should be prosecuted and deported...


Millions of American illegals?
I do not think so.

There are over one million Americans here but they are mostly business people.

There has been a few cases of Criminals being American I do remember one being a pederast and he was a proffesor at a very prestigious school, private one and that was a big scandal.

And yes not all ilegal immigrants are from México, only 52 % and that is dropping.


coffee
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Nov 14, 2015 1:42 PM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
purr4mance
purr4mancepurr4manceCleveland, Ohio USA4,825 Posts
raphael119: No right wing republican will admit the truth, the illegals do the hard, dirty jobs that no one else will. Want runaway inflation, labor shortages, a crippled economy? Donald Trump is just playing repubs forca fool.



such as california's 9 billion dollar agriculture business. without the illegals, it would be a disaster.

trumps playing his hand well so far but his stratospheric ego will do him in i think.
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Nov 14, 2015 1:52 PM CST Illegal Immigration: Trump and Cruz
purr4mance
purr4mancepurr4manceCleveland, Ohio USA4,825 Posts
lifeisadream: Is that good or bad?


what tricks do you have up your sleeve ???


laugh
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