Bad Seed (45)
JuleeBethSun Prairie, Wisconsin USA4 Threads 197 PostsI beleive there are both positive and negative spirits or souls all around us.
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PILIPALA: There's no such thing as bad seed, only trouble children .The more people tell them they are bad. they will think their bad they need support not criticism.
Can you imagine people constantly telling you your bad, that you start to believe it.
Can you imagine people constantly telling you your bad, that you start to believe it.
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I don't think any human can answer this question for sure. I don't know if it's all genetic, or if there is some environmental factor that plays into it, but I do believe there are people who are pure evil. Charles Manson for instance. And there are a lot of less dramatic examples. Were they born that way, or did something make them that way? I don't know. I do believe that whatever tendencies a person is born with, they have a choice in the matter, and nature or nuture does not excuse a person from personal responsibility for their actions.
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alabamabebe: I don't think any human can answer this question for sure. I don't know if it's all genetic, or if there is some environmental factor that plays into it, but I do believe there are people who are pure evil. Charles Manson for instance. And there are a lot of less dramatic examples. Were they born that way, or did something make them that way? I don't know. I do believe that whatever tendencies a person is born with, they have a choice in the matter, and nature or nuture does not excuse a person from personal responsibility for their actions.
I saw a documentary on Charles Manson recently and he had a pretty awful childhood...not saying that is an excuse obviously cause some people have awful childhoods and turn out fine
... But it does seem that a strong supportive loving family can contribute (even its not easy) to a healthy person.. but if someone has some underlying possibly genetic predisposition and you throw a bad childhood into the mix.. recipe for disaster.. ... would Charles Manson have been different if he had a loving family... who knows?? 
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Aries01: I saw a documentary on Charles Manson recently and he had a pretty awful childhood...not saying that is an excuse obviously cause some people have awful childhoods and turn out fine ... But it does seem that a strong supportive loving family can contribute (even its not easy) to a healthy person.. but if someone has some underlying possibly genetic predisposition and you throw a bad childhood into the mix.. recipe for disaster.. ... would Charles Manson have been different if he had a loving family... who knows??
what about the people who have wonderful, loving, supportive families and parents and still turn out bad, really bad, like manson...it happens all the time...
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Portiea: what about the people who have wonderful, loving, supportive families and parents and still turn out bad, really bad, like manson...it happens all the time...
Yeah wasn't Jeffrey Dahmer like that... or was it Ted Bundy?...
I forget.. but one of them seemed to have a perfectly normal happy upbringing.
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Aries01: Just sayin is all cause if we write things off as simply 'badness' then the 'good' kids could end up falling through the net.. I have worked with children in the criminal law context.. have come accross some pretty f**ked up ones.. but as yet no bad... thats not to say they do not exist.. but it would be dangerous and not too mention unfair to write any kid off without first exploring possible reasons...
My question and the concept of the thread come from personal experience and observation, as I suspect does the inspiration for Lessing's novel. What about, if the kid is bad from the git-go...that is, bad from early childhood....hasn't had a chance to get messed up by bad family life or influences, has, infact, a very good family and all the siblings are just fine...but has been behaving badly from the beginning and gets worse and worse as time passes, even though the family, school, social welfare workers, doctors, etc. are all doing their best to help...to fix...to cure....whatever....???This is my question...
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No innnocent child is born bad there minds are pure.
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inverphil: No innnocent child is born bad there minds are pure.
is it at all possible there could be a genetic mental flaw....just like there are genetic physical flaws???------ This thread is Archived ------
Portiea: My question and the concept of the thread come from personal experience and observation, as I suspect does the inspiration for Lessing's novel. What about, if the kid is bad from the git-go...that is, bad from early childhood....hasn't had a chance to get messed up by bad family life or influences, has, infact, a very good family and all the siblings are just fine...but has been behaving badly from the beginning and gets worse and worse as time passes, even though the family, school, social welfare workers, doctors, etc. are all doing their best to help...to fix...to cure....whatever....
???This is my question...
???This is my question...
dunno.. guess it can happen, not saying it doesn't.. don't really know enough to comment.... is their a 'bad gene'? dunno.. what do you think?------ This thread is Archived ------
Aries01: dunno.. guess it can happen, not saying it doesn't.. don't really know enough to comment.... is their a 'bad gene'? dunno.. what do you think?
i have observed this situation first hand....i don't know, but i think there is a genetic defect that scientists will one day isolate...but it does happen, I KNOW!!....despite all the love and kindness and advantages...etc.------ This thread is Archived ------
Portiea: The Fifth Child is a novel by Nobel Prize-winner Doris Lessing. The story is about a normal family whose fifth child disrupts their happy middle class existence because of his seriously anti-social behavior. As parents, they do all the normal, nurturing things we expect parents to do, and their other children are fine. When the fifth child has behaviorial problems, they do all the things you are supposed to do and seek all the help society has to offer to help him. Nothing works, and eventually, because as he grows older he becomes more and more evil, they, sadly, decide that the only thing they can do for the rest of the family to survive is to just write him off.
The point of the story is to ask whether or not some people are just born bad, and it doesn't matter what their gene pool is or what kind of home life they are given as children.
Do you agree or not with this idea: is there such a thing as a bad seed? Are some people just born bad?
The point of the story is to ask whether or not some people are just born bad, and it doesn't matter what their gene pool is or what kind of home life they are given as children.
Do you agree or not with this idea: is there such a thing as a bad seed? Are some people just born bad?
Yes there are people who are born bad, definitely yes. People who do nothing on this earth but purposely cause others to be miserable. These people find satisfaction watching in being evil.
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Physical is different and can be inher the mind is a sponge that needs guidance from the moment the child is born then life begins to its surroundings .
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Portiea: My question and the concept of the thread come from personal experience and observation, as I suspect does the inspiration for Lessing's novel. What about, if the kid is bad from the git-go...that is, bad from early childhood....hasn't had a chance to get messed up by bad family life or influences, has, infact, a very good family and all the siblings are just fine...but has been behaving badly from the beginning and gets worse and worse as time passes, even though the family, school, social welfare workers, doctors, etc. are all doing their best to help...to fix...to cure....whatever....
???This is my question...
???This is my question...
If a child is troubled, he/she is simply a troubled child who needs to be nurtured and tamed for the want of a better word. We are the adults the child depends on the significant adults around them to do right by them. It would take time, patience and a hell of a lot of dedication to sort the child out. They need to be helped from the onset, they are only tiny not born monsters. Love can cure all evils.................
Prevention is always better than cure
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Hugz_n_Kissez: Well all it takes in some sort of brain injury or defect....I guess if the right areas of the brain are damaged or defective in some way....maybe that's also enough...BUT then one never knows what goes on inside the home and what the child may have felt and experienced in early childhood either....Simply being ignored can produce the feeling of being unloved and there are other things that can lead to detachment disorders which is the inabilty to form bonds because the child did not develop a bond with a parent in early childhood!!!!!!!!!!!
I know what went on inside the home because i was there....------ This thread is Archived ------
Hugz_n_Kissez: Well all it takes in some sort of brain injury or defect....I guess if the right areas of the brain are damaged or defective in some way....maybe that's also enough...BUT then one never knows what goes on inside the home and what the child may have felt and experienced in early childhood either....Simply being ignored can produce the feeling of being unloved and there are other things that can lead to detachment disorders which is the inabilty to form bonds because the child did not develop a bond with a parent in early childhood!!!!!!!!!!!
None of this happened to this child......nothing like this, quite the opposite, in fact. As I said, I know what went on inside the home because i was there....
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Portiea: I know what went on inside the home because i was there....
Ok....Here is more info that might be helpful.....
Psychopaths/sociopaths are diagnosed by their purposeless and irrational antisocial behavior, lack of conscience, and emotional vacuity. They are thrill seekers, literally fearless. Punishment rarely works, because they are impulsive by nature and fearless of the consequences. Incapable of having meaningful relationships, they view others as fodder for manipulation and exploitation. According to one psychological surveying tool (DSM IIIR) between 3-5% of men are sociopaths; less than 1% of female population are sociopaths.
Psychopaths often make successful businessmen or world leaders. Not all psychopaths are motivated to kill. But when it is easy to devalue others, and you have had a lifetime of perceived injustices and rejection, murder might seem like a natural choice.
The following are environmental factors, psychiatrists say, which create a sociopath:
Studies show that 60% of psychopathic individuals had lost a parent;
Child is deprived of love or nurturing; parents are detached or absent;
Inconsistent discipline: if father is stern and mother is soft, child learns to hate authority and manipulate mother;
Hypocritical parents who privately belittle the child while publicly presenting the image of a "happy family".
Genetics....
Tests are showing that the nervous system of the psychopath is markedly different — they feel less fear and anxiety than normal people. One carefully conducted experiment revealed that "low arousal levels" not only causes impulsiveness and thrill-seeking, but also showed how dense sociopaths are when it comes to changing their behavior. A group of sociopaths and a group of healthy individuals were given a task, which was to learn what lever (out of four) turned on a green light. One lever gave the subject an electric shock. Both groups made the same number of errors, but the healthy group quickly learned to avoid the punishing electric shock, while sociopaths took much longer to do so.
This need for higher levels of stimulation makes the psychopath seek dangerous situations. When Gacy heard an ambulance, he would follow to see what sort of exciting catastrophe was in the making. Part of the reason for many serial killers seeking to become cops is probably due to the intensity of the job.
Genetics and physiological factors also contribute to the building of a psychopath. One study in Copenhagen focused on a group of sociopaths who had been adopted as infants. The biological relatives of sociopaths were 4-5 times more likely to be sociopathic than the average person. Yet genetics don't tell the whole story; it only shows a predisposition to antisocial behavior. Environment can make or break the psychopathic personality.
When a psychopath does inherit genetically-based, developmental disabilities, its is usually a stunted development of the higher functions of the brain. 30-38% of psychopaths show abnormal brain wave patterns, or EEGs. Infants and children typically have slower brain wave activity, but it increases as they grow up. Not with psychopaths. Eventually, the brain might mature as the psychopath ages. This may be why most serial killers are under 50. The abnormal brain wave activity comes from the temporal lobes and the limbic system of the brain, the areas that control memory and emotions. When development of this part of the brain is genetically impaired, and the parents of the child are abusive, irresponsible or manipulative, the stage is set for disaster.
(Cont'd)....
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Well, I think the genetically based issues mentioned are probably the reason for what I witnessed....those factors are the only real thing that can account for it...I realize it is still not the individuals fault...but it is not always the fault of environment and nurturing either...think how you are hurting parents who have a child like this and have done everything right...they blame themselves, just like society seems to blame them, even though they cant figure out what they are doing wrong....it is very unfair...
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I don't like to label anyone evil, or even bad. It's not a concept I can accept. I believe, like many others here, that how people turn out is part genetics, (drug or alcoholic hereditary factors or mental disease), and part how they are disciplined or not, parental and environmental example, and brought up/raised, even down to which place in what size of a family they come from, how strong or weak willed they are, their willingness to learn, or not, their reactions to how they are treated, life traumas, (physical and mental), their own habits and addictions and interactions socially and a multitude of combinations of all these things and more.
I have never met an "evil" infant yet!
I have never met an "evil" infant yet!
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I was born bad to the bone.....Mean, nasty, grouchy, hateful...GGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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