The Power of Prayer? (105)
jimbhoyHamilton, Strathclyde, Scotland UK80 Threads 2 Polls 4,142 PostsGOD cannot be male...... No man or male would send a ghost to impregnate a virgin and take the credit for it
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trish123: When we are born, we instinctively have a place in our brains for an "all-knowing, all-loving being". When we are young this being is called a parent, and children naturally and instinctively bond to their parents. What if a large number of people never outgrow this phase, and need to fill this place in their brains with something once they have left their real parents and moved on? In other words, what if this place in the brain remains into adulthood for many people, long after it has served its need, and people feel lonely unless they fill this place with something? Having an "all-knowing, all-loving" invisible friend would be an obvious thing to fill it with.
In reference to the ponderings of out-growing the phase of needing an all-knowing, all-loving being. Could another perspective about that place in our brains which we are born with be that it is a growing and maturing aspect of our humanness, beginning (but not ending) with the role of the parent?
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jskinner1724: Please forgive the intrusion, as you all seem to be familiar with each other. After reading down through the thread, there were a lot of ideas put forth that were interesting to me. However, if the bible is correct (just suppose it is for the sake of argument), then the God of the bible would be an infinite being. By that I mean that He would be all-powerful, all-knowing, and present everywhere, which would be quite infinite. He wouldn't be bound by the same degeneration as we are, i.e, we die, our minds grow feeble, we lose control of emotion, etc. So when we, as finite, limited beings, look at an infinite God, and try to apply our understanding or rationale, which just doesn't work. We try to put God in this little box for our own understanding so we can then dismiss it.
As far as prayer goes, the whole point is that we were given the privilege to speak to God through faith. Do I think that praying to God will change the course of His actions? Of course I do. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Besides, do you like talking with your children? Do you laugh at things they say?, Do they make you think? Do they say things that make you happy that you are their parent? Why then would God feel differently? Is it because that idea won't fit in that same small box we try to put Him in with our limited understanding?
As far as prayer goes, the whole point is that we were given the privilege to speak to God through faith. Do I think that praying to God will change the course of His actions? Of course I do. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Besides, do you like talking with your children? Do you laugh at things they say?, Do they make you think? Do they say things that make you happy that you are their parent? Why then would God feel differently? Is it because that idea won't fit in that same small box we try to put Him in with our limited understanding?
This is the only answer I have seen that is anywhere close to being right.
Thanks skinner.
not a popularity contest at all. and the vast majority of prayer gos unheard for many reasons. again read the Bible. there is one true church.
one true word of God. with so many false churches and false religions.
Only those truly seeking God will be heard.
But this topic will not gain ground or credence because so many want to believe and follow whatever is the easiest path. not the path of right.
But I have seen here many times where people say that they do not believe in a God, or Bash any part of his word, many adding to his word to make it easier to accept and a thousand other ways of manipulating his word.. and then those same people pray to a God that doesn't exist . they are praying to a fictional self made God.
So, honestly... how many of these prayers are doing any good at all.
The Bible tells us what to pray for, exactly how to pray to be effective.
who's prayers will be heard.
but in the end.. This body is a temporary shell, for those who truly believe and follow God, you will be risen from the dead to rejoin God.
Look at it like a cookbook. you open it and see a picture of a dish that looks sooo good, so you want to make it to see if it taste as good as it looks, but you decide not to read the list of ingredient's. you just throw in whatever you want...Do you then truly expect it to come out as pictured?
Praying for someone who does not truly know and have a relationship with God is a bit tricky. You CAN NOT pray for their well being.. only they can do that.You can on the other hand pray for them to become open and accepting to God and that God can give them the true Understanding and faith needed to pray for themself.
But prayer has become so meaningless.. who do you think is going to be heard? Seriously..do you pray for a lot of things that just really don't matter,, The ball game... let us win God? God.. let me get the loan for this bigger nicer house,, even though I already have a decent home. and so on??????
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Many time the answer we get is not what we want. many times it is a loud NO!
Is there a lesson to be learned? will we truly be happier with what we are asking for?
Lets say you pray for a new car, a new home, a lot of nice furniture, maybe a lot of land and a few horses and so on...........
Now lets say God gives you all of this because it is what you wanted.. but will you truly be happy?
You now have an entire life of credit, for the next 40 years.. you just might get it paid off in time to pass away.
but lets say that you loose your job, get hurt in an accident, stock market crashes or so on . you can suddenly loose it all.
Happens all of the time!
who has lost the most and suffers the most......... the one that had little to loose or the one that had it all? seriously.. think about it.
Is there a lesson to be learned? will we truly be happier with what we are asking for?
Lets say you pray for a new car, a new home, a lot of nice furniture, maybe a lot of land and a few horses and so on...........
Now lets say God gives you all of this because it is what you wanted.. but will you truly be happy?
You now have an entire life of credit, for the next 40 years.. you just might get it paid off in time to pass away.
but lets say that you loose your job, get hurt in an accident, stock market crashes or so on . you can suddenly loose it all.
Happens all of the time!
who has lost the most and suffers the most......... the one that had little to loose or the one that had it all? seriously.. think about it.
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gringa: In reference to the ponderings of out-growing the phase of needing an all-knowing, all-loving being. Could another perspective about that place in our brains which we are born with be that it is a growing and maturing aspect of our humanness, beginning (but not ending) with the role of the parent?
Good point chica. There are psychological studies done that say we are hard-wired to believe in the spiritual. I think it is an integral part of who I am, the physical, the emotional, the spiritual make up all of me. Others can believe what they like, maybe they don't need that third leg. I just know my life would be really wobbly without it.------ This thread is Archived ------
jimbhoy: GOD cannot be male...... No man or male would send a ghost to impregnate a virgin and take the credit for it
Then God can also not be a woman, she would swear it was Josephs and make him pay for it the rest of his life!
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rasgumby: Then God can also not be a woman, she would swear it was Josephs and make him pay for it the rest of his life!
He did??? didn't he... he never got his leg over during his marriage
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alabamabebe: Not really, of course it has to do with God, he's always a part of the equation. It's like jskinner put it, God enjoys talking to his children, and he wants us to ask. We just don't get everything we ask for.
Maybe in a way it does make a difference how many people are praying for someone. Like when I was almost killed, if no one had cared whether I lived or died, maybe God would have decided it was time for me to come home. But there were people who needed me here, so he let me hang around for them. But it's not a popularity contest. And people act like dying is the worst thing that could happen. Like when my aunt who had cancer died. She was a wonderful, kind, loving, fun person, everyone loved her. There were tons of people praying for her, but she died anyway. All her children and husband agreed that it was the best thing for her. They were sad, but they could accept it because they knew it was God's will. That is an instance where prayer brings us in line with him.
God is bigger than we can ever understand, so it's hard to put into words to make someone else understand. If you have children, try to think of it that way, you try to do what's best for them, give them what they need. And sometimes you give them something just because they ask, if it's not harmful to them, because you want them to be happy. That's the best way I can explain it.
Maybe in a way it does make a difference how many people are praying for someone. Like when I was almost killed, if no one had cared whether I lived or died, maybe God would have decided it was time for me to come home. But there were people who needed me here, so he let me hang around for them. But it's not a popularity contest. And people act like dying is the worst thing that could happen. Like when my aunt who had cancer died. She was a wonderful, kind, loving, fun person, everyone loved her. There were tons of people praying for her, but she died anyway. All her children and husband agreed that it was the best thing for her. They were sad, but they could accept it because they knew it was God's will. That is an instance where prayer brings us in line with him.
God is bigger than we can ever understand, so it's hard to put into words to make someone else understand. If you have children, try to think of it that way, you try to do what's best for them, give them what they need. And sometimes you give them something just because they ask, if it's not harmful to them, because you want them to be happy. That's the best way I can explain it.
So out of all that, the time and thought I put into writing it, the only comment is why I call God he?
I can't wait to see this thread when I get home from work.
Bye all, have fun.
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Ambrose2007: Right, B, certainly in the real world popularity/ human attention could affect someone's health or survival, but the question is whether an allegedly infinitely just being would make decisions based on such criteria.
if you are going to assume there is a god, and that he is infinitely just, I am going to assume that praying to him for my own or the benefit of others is largely a waste of time since your assumed infinite god's intentions would prevail regardless.
technically justice is ephemeral and as such cannot be infinite mr. assumption.
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alabamabebe: Good point chica. There are psychological studies done that say we are hard-wired to believe in the spiritual. I think it is an integral part of who I am, the physical, the emotional, the spiritual make up all of me.
I think someone would be hard-put to disprove the existence of a spiritual aspect to humans. The rub comes in how we interpret and respond to its existence (hence this thread). And I can't help but believe that the life experiences one has had will greatly influence (how can they not?) each one's ultimate conclusions about spirituality (in general and their own) and a higher being.
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gringa: In reference to the ponderings of out-growing the phase of needing an all-knowing, all-loving being. Could another perspective about that place in our brains which we are born with be that it is a growing and maturing aspect of our humanness, beginning (but not ending) with the role of the parent?
Yes, I think it may be - I think that this is why we owe ourselves and our children the highest integrities when dealing with matters of this nature - I have this great need to question everything to my own satisfaction and we all have this but to greater or lesser extents - Im not sure if this is connected to individual life experiences or even if there is such a thing as destiny - but I have a hunch of the affirmative in both cases....
hahaha, we will all get there in the end - whether we pray or not, research doesnt show positive correlations for prayer, probably less than it does for coincidence or positive affirmations - actually, could be a bit wrong there - I think there may be a lot to be said for positive affirmations in that 'self belief' does carry us a long way into that area of 'positive self regard'.............
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BnaturAl: if you are going to assume there is a god, and that he is infinitely just, I am going to assume that praying to him for my own or the benefit of others is largely a waste of time since your assumed infinite god's intentions would prevail regardless.
technically justice is ephemeral and as such cannot be infinite mr. assumption.
technically justice is ephemeral and as such cannot be infinite mr. assumption.
I agree. But then one could say the same thing about any number of qualities, such as "moral" or "compassionate," "loving," etc.
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Ambrose2007: I agree. But then one could say the same thing about any number of qualities, such as "moral" or "compassionate," "loving," etc.
one can say, do, feel, whatever one pleases, the assumption lives as if truth. Life is the breath of intention, a prayer, it's trust in reality.
there are no buts my learned friend, save those you or should I say 'we' are often want to chase after, all derivations, mispellings and intentions of 'buts' assumed of course...
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My brother is a Christian and he has the power of healing through prayer.. he was telling me of two instances where prayer has defied medical science... one instance is with a friend of his (I met this girl... she exists) she was diagnosed with Breast Cancer and was being treated in the hospital where he works (he is a medical professional).. anyway.. when he first became a Christian about 18 years ago, she asked him to pray for her when she received results of a biopsy diagnosing a cancerous tumour... he did, he prayed for her and when he did he got a strange feeling go up through him, which he didn't understand, he didn't mention anything to her (becuase he didn't fully understand it himself) because he didn't want to give her false hope.. but when she went shortly after for an x-ray the tumour had gone... completely.. she had not even received treatment yet... she was x-rayed in the hospital where he works so he got to see the results.. the doctors were baffled...
(am v tired and lazy so just copied this from earlier thread )
(am v tired and lazy so just copied this from earlier thread
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What kind of eggs does a wicked chicken lay?
Deviled eggs.
Deviled eggs.
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friendsfirst: What kind of eggs does a wicked chicken lay?
Deviled eggs.
Deviled eggs.
chickens are taking it on the chin today!!
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BnaturAl: if you are going to assume there is a god, and that he is infinitely just, I am going to assume that praying to him for my own or the benefit of others is largely a waste of time since your assumed infinite god's intentions would prevail regardless.
technically justice is ephemeral and as such cannot be infinite mr. assumption.
technically justice is ephemeral and as such cannot be infinite mr. assumption.
Wanted to add - not a shameless "bump," actually feeling quite guilty - that many of the characteristics listed for God (such as omnipotence, omniscience, etc.) are logically incoherent if not self-contradictory, but that doesn't stop people who don't appreciate their logical ramifications from claiming to believe in them.
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Ambrose2007: Wanted to add - not a shameless "bump," actually feeling quite guilty - that many of the characteristics listed for God (such as omnipotence, omniscience, etc.) are logically incoherent if not self-contradictory, but that doesn't stop people who don't appreciate their logical ramifications from claiming to believe in them.
I dare you to say that in English!
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Ambrose2007: Wanted to add - not a shameless "bump," actually feeling quite guilty - that many of the characteristics listed for God (such as omnipotence, omniscience, etc.) are logically incoherent if not self-contradictory, but that doesn't stop people who don't appreciate their logical ramifications from claiming to believe in them.
Yeah-yeah....I'm still trying to sort through this mess in my head...can't grasp one theory on this....need to investigate more and reflect....it's more like....oh forget it....
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