Mysoginistic?? ( Archived) (21)

Jul 13, 2008 5:18 PM CST Mysoginistic??
roseofsharon
roseofsharonroseofsharonmanchester, Hampshire, England UK60 Threads 3 Polls 8,699 Posts
She can kill with a smile
She can wound with her eyes
She can ruin your faith with her casual lies
And she only reveals what she wants you to see
She hides like a child
But she's always a woman to me

She can lead you to live
She can take you or leave you
She can ask for the truth
But she'll never believe you
And she'll take what you give her as long as it's free
She steals like a thief
But she's always a woman to me

Oh, she takes care of herself
She can wait if she wants
She's ahead of her time
Oh, and she never gives out
And she never gives in
She just changes her mind

She will promise you more
Than the Garden of Eden
Then she'll carelessly cut you
And laugh while you're bleedin'
But she'll bring out the best
And the worst you can be
Blame it all on yourself
Cause she's always a woman to me

She is frequently kind
And she's suddenly cruel
She can do as she pleases
She's nobody's fool
But she can't be convicted
She's earned her degree
And the most she will do
Is throw shadows at you
But she's always a woman to me

These are the lyrics to Billy Joel's "She's Always a Woman to Me"

I have just seen a documentary (Melvin Bragg, for those who know him) on the songwriter/singer. Apparently, he had accusations thrown at him that the song was "mysoginistic".....

Personally, I feel its something of an accolade to women.... describing all facets that encompass a woman.... but then its all down to interpretation, yeah?

Wadda you think? Is ther something I've missed per chance? dunno

An enlightened man..... or a bitter man??
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Jul 13, 2008 5:21 PM CST Mysoginistic??
gingerb
gingerbgingerbLetterkenny, Donegal Ireland7 Threads 1 Polls 4,139 Posts
I think he described many of the whimsies and facets of womanhood that most women would recognise in themselves. It's a great song.

applause thumbs up applause
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Jul 13, 2008 5:22 PM CST Mysoginistic??
Maybe Enlightened and Bitter!!!!blues
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Jul 13, 2008 5:26 PM CST Mysoginistic??
Claayer
ClaayerClaayerWild Wild South West, Cornwall, England UK107 Threads 9 Polls 15,888 Posts
gingerb: I think he described many of the whimsies and facets of womanhood that most women would recognise in themselves. It's a great song.


Yep.. I agree thumbs up thumbs up
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Jul 13, 2008 5:26 PM CST Mysoginistic??
Claayer
ClaayerClaayerWild Wild South West, Cornwall, England UK107 Threads 9 Polls 15,888 Posts
Conrad73: Maybe Enlightened and Bitter!!!!


haha yeah... maybe giggle
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Jul 13, 2008 5:31 PM CST Mysoginistic??
epicure
epicureepicureAlanya/Antalya, Mediterranean Turkey401 Threads 10 Polls 5,224 Posts
women creatures to be afraid of understand tihis once more after reading this poem extremely right and frighteningdrinking
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Jul 13, 2008 5:36 PM CST Mysoginistic??
roseofsharon
roseofsharonroseofsharonmanchester, Hampshire, England UK60 Threads 3 Polls 8,699 Posts
gingerb: I think he described many of the whimsies and facets of womanhood that most women would recognise in themselves. It's a great song.


Indeed!!! thumbs up He probably describes a woman that a less than "enlightened" man wouldn't recognise.... or would misinterpret?? Though, Conrad has a point.... perhaps enlightened AND bitter??
dunno
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Jul 13, 2008 5:41 PM CST Mysoginistic??
roseofsharon
roseofsharonroseofsharonmanchester, Hampshire, England UK60 Threads 3 Polls 8,699 Posts
What about "Just the Way You Are"?? Again.... it has been proported that this was about a man wanting a "bimbo" type, that didn't think for herself and that he didn't want to change (possibly because it served his purpose??)..... yet, some romantic types may suggest that its because he adored her so much that he didn't want her to change...??

I'd like to go with the latter... but perhaps that's the soppy in me?? smitten

Any thoughts?
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Jul 13, 2008 5:42 PM CST Mysoginistic??
gingerb
gingerbgingerbLetterkenny, Donegal Ireland7 Threads 1 Polls 4,139 Posts
roseofsharon: Indeed!!! He probably describes a woman that a less than "enlightened" man wouldn't recognise.... or would misinterpret?? Though, Conrad has a point.... perhaps enlightened AND bitter??


I think to the less enlightened it might seem bitter from the descriptive lines, but you know he isn't being bitter at the end of every verse when he says, "but she's always a woman to me". It's like saying that no matter how she appears, that might not seem good sometimes, the essence or warmth of womanhood is always reserved for him. Well to my interpretation anyway. They are the words of a man in love.wine
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Jul 13, 2008 5:43 PM CST Mysoginistic??
Claayer
ClaayerClaayerWild Wild South West, Cornwall, England UK107 Threads 9 Polls 15,888 Posts
roseofsharon: What about "Just the Way You Are"?? Again.... it has been proported that this was about a man wanting a "bimbo" type, that didn't think for herself and that he didn't want to change (possibly because it served his purpose??)..... yet, some romantic types may suggest that its because he adored her so much that he didn't want her to change...??

I'd like to go with the latter... but perhaps that's the soppy in me??


Any thoughts?


Me too.. I'm certain that's how it is meant. laugh It's a lovely song.


wave hug
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Jul 13, 2008 5:43 PM CST Mysoginistic??
Daniel4021
Daniel4021Daniel4021Somewhere, Tennessee USA157 Threads 8,986 Posts
What I get out of it is she uses her womanly charm over men to manipulate them into getting what she wants.. lots of women do that, especialy the one that are very good looking and they know they are.. no offense ment, but I believe it's true.. imo
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Jul 13, 2008 5:51 PM CST Mysoginistic??
roseofsharon
roseofsharonroseofsharonmanchester, Hampshire, England UK60 Threads 3 Polls 8,699 Posts
gingerb: I think to the less enlightened it might seem bitter from the descriptive lines, but you know he isn't being bitter at the end of every verse when he says, "but she's always a woman to me". It's like saying that no matter how she appears, that might not seem good sometimes, the essence or warmth of womanhood is always reserved for him. Well to my interpretation anyway. They are the words of a man in love.


That's exactly how I perceive it, yes!! thumbs up
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Jul 13, 2008 5:52 PM CST Mysoginistic??
roseofsharon
roseofsharonroseofsharonmanchester, Hampshire, England UK60 Threads 3 Polls 8,699 Posts
Daniel4021: What I get out of it is she uses her womanly charm over men to manipulate them into getting what she wants.. lots of women do that, especialy the one that are very good looking and they know they are.. no offense ment, but I believe it's true.. imo


Thank goodness I have a face like a robber's dog then, eh?? Means I'm a nice person...??
dunno
Daniel!!!! Ooooo...... roll eyes
grin
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Jul 13, 2008 5:58 PM CST Mysoginistic??
Shadow_lover
Shadow_loverShadow_loverWest Palm, Florida USA41 Threads 12 Polls 1,317 Posts
You know, Billy Joel wrote "I love you just the way you are" to his wife.






Then he divorced her and married Christy Brinkley.






SO






















Interpretations are a wonderful thing










did he really mean I love you just the way you are, BUT not as much as I love her just the way she is?
dunno
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Jul 13, 2008 6:01 PM CST Mysoginistic??
Daniel4021
Daniel4021Daniel4021Somewhere, Tennessee USA157 Threads 8,986 Posts
roseofsharon: Thank goodness I have a face like a robber's dog then, eh?? Means I'm a nice person...??

Daniel!!!! Ooooo......


I never said you didn't look good rose...hug
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Jul 13, 2008 6:03 PM CST Mysoginistic??
FlowerOfTheSun
FlowerOfTheSunFlowerOfTheSunMalaga, Andalusia Spain7 Threads 1,017 Posts
Claayer: Me too.. I'm certain that's how it is meant. It's a lovely song.


I don't think it's either ...

I think he can't be bothered to get re-acquainted with "her" has her mind expends and she matures and is interested in new things ... that might include changing the way she looks etc ...

He wants her to stay like she was they met!!!! laugh The good news is that 20 years laters when all the new fangled ideas have been thrown out, and everyone "goes back to basics" and the same era fashion has been revived SHE will be the most avant-garde girl in town!!!!!!! applause Turn round look at him and say "you old fashioned miserable old sod" I'm off!!!! dunno
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Jul 13, 2008 6:16 PM CST Mysoginistic??
roseofsharon
roseofsharonroseofsharonmanchester, Hampshire, England UK60 Threads 3 Polls 8,699 Posts
FlowerOfTheSun: I don't think it's either ...

I think he can't be bothered to get re-acquainted with "her" has her mind expends and she matures and is interested in new things ... that might include changing the way she looks etc ...

He wants her to stay like she was they met!!!! The good news is that 20 years laters when all the new fangled ideas have been thrown out, and everyone "goes back to basics" and the same era fashion has been revived SHE will be the most avant-garde girl in town!!!!!!! Turn round look at him and say "you old fashioned miserable old sod" I'm off!!!!


Good point!! thumbs up Especially as women evolve at a much faster rate than men...!! A completely different take on it.... I like it!!
bouquet
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Jul 13, 2008 6:27 PM CST Mysoginistic??
alabamabebe
alabamabebealabamabebeBanks of the Warrior River, Alabama USA66 Threads 3 Polls 4,404 Posts
roseofsharon: What about "Just the Way You Are"?? Again.... it has been proported that this was about a man wanting a "bimbo" type, that didn't think for herself and that he didn't want to change (possibly because it served his purpose??)..... yet, some romantic types may suggest that its because he adored her so much that he didn't want her to change...??

I'd like to go with the latter... but perhaps that's the soppy in me??

Any thoughts?



Just the Way You Are just means what it says. He doesn't want her to change to try and please him, he loves her the way she is.

I think in She's Always a Woman to Me he's describing one woman, the way her perceives her, accepting her as she is, good and bad.

I feel like some people try to analyze songs like this too much, taking into account the entire history of the song-writer and all his relationships. Songs are usually just about a point in time, the feelings of the moment. I just enjoy the moment, especially if it's a place I'm in at the time, or can relate to being in.
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Jul 13, 2008 6:33 PM CST Mysoginistic??
gingerb
gingerbgingerbLetterkenny, Donegal Ireland7 Threads 1 Polls 4,139 Posts
alabamabebe: Just the Way You Are just means what it says. He doesn't want her to change to try and please him, he loves her the way she is.

I think in She's Always a Woman to Me he's describing one woman, the way her perceives her, accepting her as she is, good and bad.

I feel like some people try to analyze songs like this too much, taking into account the entire history of the song-writer and all his relationships. Songs are usually just about a point in time, the feelings of the moment. I just enjoy the moment, especially if it's a place I'm in at the time, or can relate to being in.
thumbs up
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Jul 13, 2008 6:34 PM CST Mysoginistic??
shipoker55
shipoker55shipoker55St. Petersburg, Florida USA211 Threads 2 Polls 9,362 Posts
everything we do...everything we say, will be offensive to someone!!

Bottom line?? "You can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself"...Rick Nelson



Go Billy Joel...keep writing!!
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by roseofsharon (60 Threads)
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