Would you support the Re-Introduction of National Service?. (77)
mike1937: Thanks Trish,
I like U too
even if you have got better brains then me
Good elf lass
NOW question - Have you GOT that bloody degree yet
Best wishes
Mike
aka HIM @ Broadstairs and before anyone who can't navigate or read maps asks again - YES it DOES exsist
I like U too
even if you have got better brains then me
Good elf lass
NOW question - Have you GOT that bloody degree yet
Best wishes
Mike
aka HIM @ Broadstairs and before anyone who can't navigate or read maps asks again - YES it DOES exsist
Awww, thanks for remembering that Mike, yes, I got it and I do the cap and gown stuff in about a month - I cant wait to get that piccie on my wall - I got the actual certificate last week so am going to buy a matching pair of frames which will go in pride of place on my wall a.s.a.p.
mike1937: Thanks Trish,
I like U too
even if you have got better brains then me
Good elf lass
NOW question - Have you GOT that bloody degree yet
Best wishes
Mike
aka HIM @ Broadstairs and before anyone who can't navigate or read maps asks again - YES it DOES exsist
I like U too
even if you have got better brains then me
Good elf lass
NOW question - Have you GOT that bloody degree yet
Best wishes
Mike
aka HIM @ Broadstairs and before anyone who can't navigate or read maps asks again - YES it DOES exsist
oh and by the way Mike, I dont have better brains than you by any stretch of the imagination - Im simply a product of a different generation and background.
I have started a detailed reply to your comments above but have just got busy so it may be an hour or two yet before I can finish it......
here we go Mike, as promised - bit late but sorry.........
Having welcomed you back Mike its now down to business
Fist off I really do take exception to your referring to those less fortunate than others as "chaff". Your above post seems to imply that because 'some' kids dont have the advantage of a "good upbringing" that they should then be eschewed by the rest of society. Simply by the misfortune of whom they were born to, you leap to the assumption that there is no worth in the existence of these lives.
Fortunately, society no longer reflects your way of dismissing the less fortunate and great moves are being made to change the lives of children born into disadvantaged sectors of society.
The main aim of such initiatives is to break the cycle of no hope, just this morning on the news we heard that all 11 yr olds are to be given a cookery book in preparation for compulsory cookery lessons - nutritional advice is very basic to brain development so I see this as an excellent move in the quest to bring lots of children into the fold as opposed to continuing to treat this as an 'us and them' society.
Fortunately, there are other proactive initiatives afoot too. Traditionally, literacy hasnt been taken too seriously for the lower classes and this is what we are seeing the results of in society currently - the last few years have been witness to great swathes of children leaving schools without even the barest of necessities in the three 'R's having been met. This has had a knock on effect on the self esteem and class consciousness of many generations and coupled with the loss of British industry, is a potentially dangerous situation - we are seeing dis-satisfaction bubbling over in the inner cities.
The above mentioned school leaving literacy skills isnt something new, the 'new' aspect to this disgrace of society is that people have actually started to complain about it en masse - this could be seen as the devil making work for idle hands or simply as a societal injustice which is long overdue for some serious input not just from academia but gvmt funding too - after all, its the result of generations of neglect which have led to this impasse.........
It has long been recognised that this bubbling over of dissatisfaction potentially, could have dire consequences on society. While we had the massive industrial base of yesteryear, the education system worked on providing workers for whichever industry was prevalent in any particular area and things worked fine on that basis for a couple of hundred years.
Now however, industry is gone, along with the sense' of direction and self worth for many in the inner cities - the symptoms of unrest which we have been seeing are a rise in the crime statistics and a general loss of respect, a bubbling up of anarchy if you like - and these issues are beyond the lot of any parents to quell. I had a very strict upbringing but it didnt stop me from seeing the wood for the trees and thankfully, millions more of my generation had the same views.
Progress is however, painfully slow.............
Having welcomed you back Mike its now down to business
Fist off I really do take exception to your referring to those less fortunate than others as "chaff". Your above post seems to imply that because 'some' kids dont have the advantage of a "good upbringing" that they should then be eschewed by the rest of society. Simply by the misfortune of whom they were born to, you leap to the assumption that there is no worth in the existence of these lives.
Fortunately, society no longer reflects your way of dismissing the less fortunate and great moves are being made to change the lives of children born into disadvantaged sectors of society.
The main aim of such initiatives is to break the cycle of no hope, just this morning on the news we heard that all 11 yr olds are to be given a cookery book in preparation for compulsory cookery lessons - nutritional advice is very basic to brain development so I see this as an excellent move in the quest to bring lots of children into the fold as opposed to continuing to treat this as an 'us and them' society.
Fortunately, there are other proactive initiatives afoot too. Traditionally, literacy hasnt been taken too seriously for the lower classes and this is what we are seeing the results of in society currently - the last few years have been witness to great swathes of children leaving schools without even the barest of necessities in the three 'R's having been met. This has had a knock on effect on the self esteem and class consciousness of many generations and coupled with the loss of British industry, is a potentially dangerous situation - we are seeing dis-satisfaction bubbling over in the inner cities.
The above mentioned school leaving literacy skills isnt something new, the 'new' aspect to this disgrace of society is that people have actually started to complain about it en masse - this could be seen as the devil making work for idle hands or simply as a societal injustice which is long overdue for some serious input not just from academia but gvmt funding too - after all, its the result of generations of neglect which have led to this impasse.........
It has long been recognised that this bubbling over of dissatisfaction potentially, could have dire consequences on society. While we had the massive industrial base of yesteryear, the education system worked on providing workers for whichever industry was prevalent in any particular area and things worked fine on that basis for a couple of hundred years.
Now however, industry is gone, along with the sense' of direction and self worth for many in the inner cities - the symptoms of unrest which we have been seeing are a rise in the crime statistics and a general loss of respect, a bubbling up of anarchy if you like - and these issues are beyond the lot of any parents to quell. I had a very strict upbringing but it didnt stop me from seeing the wood for the trees and thankfully, millions more of my generation had the same views.
Progress is however, painfully slow.............
contd.
We now have many and varied initiatives in place in the education system to help the children who have fallen foul of countless decades of mismanagement of the British educational system - there has been much effort put into tackling the problems of underachieving and literacy problems, these days, specialist help is available for all those kids who begin to fall behind in any of the key stages but better than any of these is the fact that education has taken a massive leap forward in the recognition of the fact that skills for life need to be built into their modus operandi.
It may well have been the way of life in years gone by to consider the lower classes as useful cannon fodder but thankfully, things are evening out somewhat and that will never be the case again........
The education system has had a much needed update in the last few yrs which has brought it out of the dark days of of supremacy of empire and back into the reality of achieving what its supposed to do which is to provide a service for the people instead of for the government……….
We now have many and varied initiatives in place in the education system to help the children who have fallen foul of countless decades of mismanagement of the British educational system - there has been much effort put into tackling the problems of underachieving and literacy problems, these days, specialist help is available for all those kids who begin to fall behind in any of the key stages but better than any of these is the fact that education has taken a massive leap forward in the recognition of the fact that skills for life need to be built into their modus operandi.
It may well have been the way of life in years gone by to consider the lower classes as useful cannon fodder but thankfully, things are evening out somewhat and that will never be the case again........
The education system has had a much needed update in the last few yrs which has brought it out of the dark days of of supremacy of empire and back into the reality of achieving what its supposed to do which is to provide a service for the people instead of for the government……….
trish123: Maybe you should stick to fitting engines then Mike as understanding people is obviously not your forte..........
Hmm-Interesting exchange of dialogue?-Respect to you Mike-cos you speak from experience-Trish,i suspect you are using your 'new found theories'to sustain your point(haven't quite worked that one out yet?)-but please remember the 'proven' adage:-"Qualifications only prove you have the ability to learn-NOT that you know your job inside out?"-Myself?-I was born a mere 100yards from Clapham Junction station-not with a silver spoon in my mouth(more of a wooden one!)-got myself expelled from school(very naughty boy!)-but did manage to impose a bit of self discipline on myself and scramble up the legal ladder to achieve where i am today(didnt call me black sheep of Chambers for nothing y'know?)-point being-ANY KID CAN DO IT_IF HE/SHE WANTS TO-and it is still my conviction that National Service provided that platform for many.
Good post Mike-yeah,its quite true that the majority of the legal establishment think they're a cut above the rest?-but it only takes a couple of 'Reality' questions to bring em back to planet Earth!(you aint loved for that either!)-but i am proud to state that i(personally)have spent many an hour arguing points of law with the 'Learned'-and,on most(but not all)ocassions)-have won-earning the respect and commendation of the 'Learned' people.
As it is within the Armed Forces-they are simply an employer-the only difference(if any) being judgement of Aptitude and character come into play-Academics play no part at all-it is simply about you and your potential?
I have two sons who have both served-the younger just done his term of 3 years-the elder has been in the forces since 16-having served as a RM then as a Sgt in the RGJ he was unfortunate enough to be 'Unluckly'(squaddie term)in Iraq in 2006 by copping an IED in basra which has obviously rendered him physically a shadow of his former self.
Sentiment or Condolence is not sought by him in any way or form-of course he moans about his employer(Army)-but NOT for why he copped it-merely for the after treatment-HE(and others)have NEVER condemned the Armed Forces-in fact-their PRIDE in who they are-and what they have ACHIEVED is strengthened.
There are many ocassioned facts that are not made public which only these lads are party to-and it is in this vein that makes the Bond of Cameradery so strong to the point that the general public(especially the Academics!)will NEVER understand it!.That is also extended to the guys/gals who LIVE and WORK together in the Armed Forces-whether active or not!.
I have 2 grandsons-perhaps one day they will choose to follow in their fathers footsteps-Why not?-if they turn out as independent,self disciplined,proud and brave as their fathers-Who could deny them?.
As it is within the Armed Forces-they are simply an employer-the only difference(if any) being judgement of Aptitude and character come into play-Academics play no part at all-it is simply about you and your potential?
I have two sons who have both served-the younger just done his term of 3 years-the elder has been in the forces since 16-having served as a RM then as a Sgt in the RGJ he was unfortunate enough to be 'Unluckly'(squaddie term)in Iraq in 2006 by copping an IED in basra which has obviously rendered him physically a shadow of his former self.
Sentiment or Condolence is not sought by him in any way or form-of course he moans about his employer(Army)-but NOT for why he copped it-merely for the after treatment-HE(and others)have NEVER condemned the Armed Forces-in fact-their PRIDE in who they are-and what they have ACHIEVED is strengthened.
There are many ocassioned facts that are not made public which only these lads are party to-and it is in this vein that makes the Bond of Cameradery so strong to the point that the general public(especially the Academics!)will NEVER understand it!.That is also extended to the guys/gals who LIVE and WORK together in the Armed Forces-whether active or not!.
I have 2 grandsons-perhaps one day they will choose to follow in their fathers footsteps-Why not?-if they turn out as independent,self disciplined,proud and brave as their fathers-Who could deny them?.
I say old Been - I praise your lads unreservedly. The latter is especially to be admired and I know exactly how badly they are treated.
My Bro In Law is a Brigadier ex Para, RCT and was the CEO of combat Stress after he came out and still serves on the pensions board so he scraps with the ministers in government/MOD regularly and even dines with the SAS bods at Hereford. he also gets about giving talks, lectures and is writing a book about Army history. He went from a private at Canterbury through to Sandhurst and upwards on his own merit from the CCF at Sir Roger Manwoods schooll ( sandwich) and that was the result of his father being a bricklayer and later Foreman who insisted on his kids being educated better privately.
You have also just summed up everything about camaraderie and all else about WHY we did what WE did even in my mob long ago when we had National Service people with us and even WHY it should IMO NOW be re-introduced. BTW I started off in the ATC and advise allyoungsters to get into the reapective cadet forces as that really is where a real valuable education all starts.
Mike
My Bro In Law is a Brigadier ex Para, RCT and was the CEO of combat Stress after he came out and still serves on the pensions board so he scraps with the ministers in government/MOD regularly and even dines with the SAS bods at Hereford. he also gets about giving talks, lectures and is writing a book about Army history. He went from a private at Canterbury through to Sandhurst and upwards on his own merit from the CCF at Sir Roger Manwoods schooll ( sandwich) and that was the result of his father being a bricklayer and later Foreman who insisted on his kids being educated better privately.
You have also just summed up everything about camaraderie and all else about WHY we did what WE did even in my mob long ago when we had National Service people with us and even WHY it should IMO NOW be re-introduced. BTW I started off in the ATC and advise allyoungsters to get into the reapective cadet forces as that really is where a real valuable education all starts.
Mike
Beenabout: Good post Mike-yeah,its quite true that the majority of the legal establishment think they're a cut above the rest?-but it only takes a couple of 'Reality' questions to bring em back to planet Earth!(you aint loved for that either!)-but i am proud to state that i(personally)have spent many an hour arguing points of law with the 'Learned'-and,on most(but not all)ocassions)-have won-earning the respect and commendation of the 'Learned' people.
As it is within the Armed Forces-they are simply an employer-the only difference(if any) being judgement of Aptitude and character come into play-Academics play no part at all-it is simply about you and your potential?
I have two sons who have both served-the younger just done his term of 3 years-the elder has been in the forces since 16-having served as a RM then as a Sgt in the RGJ he was unfortunate enough to be 'Unluckly'(squaddie term)in Iraq in 2006 by copping an IED in basra which has obviously rendered him physically a shadow of his former self.
Sentiment or Condolence is not sought by him in any way or form-of course he moans about his employer(Army)-but NOT for why he copped it-merely for the after treatment-HE(and others)have NEVER condemned the Armed Forces-in fact-their PRIDE in who they are-and what they have ACHIEVED is strengthened.
There are many ocassioned facts that are not made public which only these lads are party to-and it is in this vein that makes the Bond of Cameradery so strong to the point that the general public(especially the Academics!)will NEVER understand it!.That is also extended to the guys/gals who LIVE and WORK together in the Armed Forces-whether active or not!.
I have 2 grandsons-perhaps one day they will choose to follow in their fathers footsteps-Why not?-if they turn out as independent,self disciplined,proud and brave as their fathers-Who could deny them?.
As it is within the Armed Forces-they are simply an employer-the only difference(if any) being judgement of Aptitude and character come into play-Academics play no part at all-it is simply about you and your potential?
I have two sons who have both served-the younger just done his term of 3 years-the elder has been in the forces since 16-having served as a RM then as a Sgt in the RGJ he was unfortunate enough to be 'Unluckly'(squaddie term)in Iraq in 2006 by copping an IED in basra which has obviously rendered him physically a shadow of his former self.
Sentiment or Condolence is not sought by him in any way or form-of course he moans about his employer(Army)-but NOT for why he copped it-merely for the after treatment-HE(and others)have NEVER condemned the Armed Forces-in fact-their PRIDE in who they are-and what they have ACHIEVED is strengthened.
There are many ocassioned facts that are not made public which only these lads are party to-and it is in this vein that makes the Bond of Cameradery so strong to the point that the general public(especially the Academics!)will NEVER understand it!.That is also extended to the guys/gals who LIVE and WORK together in the Armed Forces-whether active or not!.
I have 2 grandsons-perhaps one day they will choose to follow in their fathers footsteps-Why not?-if they turn out as independent,self disciplined,proud and brave as their fathers-Who could deny them?.
tee hee this is now becoming farsical - can you two hear those echoes of the dying empire - cos the rest of us sure can
trish123: tee hee this is now becoming farsical - can you two hear those echoes of the dying empire - cos the rest of us sure can
I was not going to say Owt more - BUT
Here's a possible gutter press tabloid headline -
21st Century Social Science dismisses proven history and traditional values.
I hope too, that my learned friend Beenabout
will add his comments and in particular, pay specific eloquent attention to the spelling of the word *Farce* and/or *all* its *variables*
trish123: tee hee this is now becoming farsical - can you two hear those echoes of the dying empire - cos the rest of us sure can
"Dying Empire"!!!-Where are you coming from Trish M'Dear?-This thread has addressed the issue of 'Would You Agree With The Re-Introduction Of National Service'-You have sought not to argue,by merit-but to Condemn by Ignorance-endorsed by Theories substantiated over tea and biscuits!.
May I remind you of the recent commemoration in London for the 1000 plus servicemen/women who died in Northern Ireland-If it weren't for their sacrifice the provisional IRA would've had MANY more cells in this country-for which YOU,and your fellow theorists(being part of the General Public),were their intended target-You see they don't care too much for social sciences either!.
When does a Farce become Farcical?-simple answer?-When Theory meets Practise-but is promoted by Ignorance!-Politics can and do work-but establishing the balance of give and take is never straightforward-as many situations across the world have been witness to?.
I offer you my congratulations on becoming representative to the 'Rest of Us'-Are you referring to the 'Tea&Biscuits'brigade???.
Constructive Dialogue is always welcome-especially when it is delivered from experience-but PLEASE-Don't Condemn from Ignorance-It belittles your educated stance!.
Beenabout: "Dying Empire"!!!-Where are you coming from Trish M'Dear?-This thread has addressed the issue of 'Would You Agree With The Re-Introduction Of National Service'-You have sought not to argue,by merit-but to Condemn by Ignorance-endorsed by Theories substantiated over tea and biscuits!.
May I remind you of the recent commemoration in London for the 1000 plus servicemen/women who died in Northern Ireland-If it weren't for their sacrifice the provisional IRA would've had MANY more cells in this country-for which YOU,and your fellow theorists(being part of the General Public),were their intended target-You see they don't care too much for social sciences either!.
When does a Farce become Farcical?-simple answer?-When Theory meets Practise-but is promoted by Ignorance!-Politics can and do work-but establishing the balance of give and take is never straightforward-as many situations across the world have been witness to?.
I offer you my congratulations on becoming representative to the 'Rest of Us'-Are you referring to the 'Tea&Biscuits'brigade???.
Constructive Dialogue is always welcome-especially when it is delivered from experience-but PLEASE-Don't Condemn from Ignorance-It belittles your educated stance!.
May I remind you of the recent commemoration in London for the 1000 plus servicemen/women who died in Northern Ireland-If it weren't for their sacrifice the provisional IRA would've had MANY more cells in this country-for which YOU,and your fellow theorists(being part of the General Public),were their intended target-You see they don't care too much for social sciences either!.
When does a Farce become Farcical?-simple answer?-When Theory meets Practise-but is promoted by Ignorance!-Politics can and do work-but establishing the balance of give and take is never straightforward-as many situations across the world have been witness to?.
I offer you my congratulations on becoming representative to the 'Rest of Us'-Are you referring to the 'Tea&Biscuits'brigade???.
Constructive Dialogue is always welcome-especially when it is delivered from experience-but PLEASE-Don't Condemn from Ignorance-It belittles your educated stance!.
Nuff said
( nearest thing to a Judge) I rest me case M lud 
Amazing how quick people are to dispose of others Lives.
WTF do you think gives you that "Right"?
WTF do you think gives you that "Right"?
National Service? Only after all politicians & all their kids are first enlisted and active.
It would just give the politicians a more clear perspective on conflicts.
It would just give the politicians a more clear perspective on conflicts.
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I like U too
even if you have got better brains then me
Good elf lass
NOW question - Have you GOT that bloody degree yet
Best wishes
Mike
aka HIM @ Broadstairs and before anyone