Would you support the Re-Introduction of National Service?. (77)
Beenabout: Very Good Trish(an i mean that!)-I understand your answer and why?-but could i be forgiven for asking-"Are you Advocating for World Disarmament?" or for "Constitutional Reform" of the UK;s Political system?.
The latter is certainly the likeliest to attain-but,in all honesty,is it practical to believe that ANY Government whatsoever can be devoid of those human traits being:Corruption,Greed,Insincereity etc?-it is even rife in the infrastructure of Religous Institutions!.
Perhaps,we can share a common principle that since Oliver Cromwell led the people of England to defeat such injustices-and install a 'Rump' Parliament-which,even then,proved to have its inadequacies-the whole system of government since has been like a 'Rubber Ball'-introducing and reintroducing legislation to suit their ambitions-whatever the motive?.
The latter is certainly the likeliest to attain-but,in all honesty,is it practical to believe that ANY Government whatsoever can be devoid of those human traits being:Corruption,Greed,Insincereity etc?-it is even rife in the infrastructure of Religous Institutions!.
Perhaps,we can share a common principle that since Oliver Cromwell led the people of England to defeat such injustices-and install a 'Rump' Parliament-which,even then,proved to have its inadequacies-the whole system of government since has been like a 'Rubber Ball'-introducing and reintroducing legislation to suit their ambitions-whatever the motive?.
Its nothing to do with world disarmament or even constitutional reform, not on the surface anyway. Britain has, on the face of things, a Constitutional Monarchy, thats what they would have us believe at least and likewise, the US has it own peculiar form of Democracy unfortunately, both are falacies. They dont actually need to be reformed to any extent other than to display the merits of their respective claims.
What we have in their stead is a peculiar mixture between Gerontocracy and Plutocracy - which country we reside in hardly really matters any more as we are all at the behest of the earlier mentioned
pre schoolers who never learned to share - their backers and puppet masters, the heads of rich families who own the banks and oil companies, who got rich from the railroads and steel industry and consequently, off the backs of the 'expendable' work forces in both countries - are you surprised that i didnt advocate Communism or at least, Socialism haha I bet its what you expected - nope, we simply need a bit of honesty and respect for the 'small' people without whom, none of their wealth would be possible......
Last yr, I forget which periodical it was in but it was reported that there are now so many millionaires that they dont bother to count them anymore but they happily reported 980 billionaires - and all this is going on while the pensioners who fought their wars and who laboured and toiled to build their riches have the dilemma every year of whether to eat or to have a bit of heating - hardly seems fair does it...............
Im merely suggesting that these disgustingly rich people should perhaps have their greed capped at a few millions each so that the rest of us may be in with a chance of seeing something other than the ghettos for the rest of our lives. That way, trade could continue as it is but instead of obscene amounts of riches sitting in bank vaults, (actually, its just on computers nowadays) some of it could actually be being used to regenerate various economies and to provide a higher standard of living for the workers, without whom, they would have no riches in the first place.
As for your alusions to Cromwell, we dont need to purge parliament half so much as we need to purge their greedy puppetmasters....... nothing much has really changed there haha...... and it was never destined to do so either while both sides of the furore wore clothes which were cut from the same cloth - so to speak.
Cromwell was hated by the Irish who accused him of genocide - I am of Irish descent..............
trish123: Its nothing to do with world disarmament or even constitutional reform, not on the surface anyway. Britain has, on the face of things, a Constitutional Monarchy, thats what they would have us believe at least and likewise, the US has it own peculiar form of Democracy unfortunately, both are falacies. They dont actually need to be reformed to any extent other than to display the merits of their respective claims.
What we have in their stead is a peculiar mixture between Gerontocracy and Plutocracy - which country we reside in hardly really matters any more as we are all at the behest of the earlier mentioned
pre schoolers who never learned to share - their backers and puppet masters, the heads of rich families who own the banks and oil companies, who got rich from the railroads and steel industry and consequently, off the backs of the 'expendable' work forces in both countries - are you surprised that i didnt advocate Communism or at least, Socialism haha I bet its what you expected - nope, we simply need a bit of honesty and respect for the 'small' people without whom, none of their wealth would be possible......
Last yr, I forget which periodical it was in but it was reported that there are now so many millionaires that they dont bother to count them anymore but they happily reported 980 billionaires - and all this is going on while the pensioners who fought their wars and who laboured and toiled to build their riches have the dilemma every year of whether to eat or to have a bit of heating - hardly seems fair does it...............
Im merely suggesting that these disgustingly rich people should perhaps have their greed capped at a few millions each so that the rest of us may be in with a chance of seeing something other than the ghettos for the rest of our lives. That way, trade could continue as it is but instead of obscene amounts of riches sitting in bank vaults, (actually, its just on computers nowadays) some of it could actually be being used to regenerate various economies and to provide a higher standard of living for the workers, without whom, they would have no riches in the first place.As for your alusions to Cromwell, we dont need to purge parliament half so much as we need to purge their greedy puppetmasters....... nothing much has really changed there haha...... and it was never destined to do so either while both sides of the furore wore clothes which were cut from the same cloth - so to speak.Cromwell was hated by the Irish who accused him of genocide - I am of Irish descent..............
What we have in their stead is a peculiar mixture between Gerontocracy and Plutocracy - which country we reside in hardly really matters any more as we are all at the behest of the earlier mentioned
pre schoolers who never learned to share - their backers and puppet masters, the heads of rich families who own the banks and oil companies, who got rich from the railroads and steel industry and consequently, off the backs of the 'expendable' work forces in both countries - are you surprised that i didnt advocate Communism or at least, Socialism haha I bet its what you expected - nope, we simply need a bit of honesty and respect for the 'small' people without whom, none of their wealth would be possible......
Last yr, I forget which periodical it was in but it was reported that there are now so many millionaires that they dont bother to count them anymore but they happily reported 980 billionaires - and all this is going on while the pensioners who fought their wars and who laboured and toiled to build their riches have the dilemma every year of whether to eat or to have a bit of heating - hardly seems fair does it...............
Im merely suggesting that these disgustingly rich people should perhaps have their greed capped at a few millions each so that the rest of us may be in with a chance of seeing something other than the ghettos for the rest of our lives. That way, trade could continue as it is but instead of obscene amounts of riches sitting in bank vaults, (actually, its just on computers nowadays) some of it could actually be being used to regenerate various economies and to provide a higher standard of living for the workers, without whom, they would have no riches in the first place.As for your alusions to Cromwell, we dont need to purge parliament half so much as we need to purge their greedy puppetmasters....... nothing much has really changed there haha...... and it was never destined to do so either while both sides of the furore wore clothes which were cut from the same cloth - so to speak.Cromwell was hated by the Irish who accused him of genocide - I am of Irish descent..............
Yep!-I agree-todays world is money in-common sense out!-Communisn?-well,as demonstrated by George Orwell(Animal farm)-'some are more equal than others'-eh?.
My mate Cromwell?-What a Lad!!!-Tis my own personal opinion that he was one of Englands Greatest-hardly guilty of genocide because there is no records of him ordering any women and children be put to death-in fact-he was originally opposed to putting Charles 1st to death!-but PLEASE----lets not get into a History Debate!!!.
You are obviously very proud of your Irish descent-so you should be-I am also very proud of my own descent-its English.
Beenabout: Yep!-I agree-todays world is money in-common sense out!-Communisn?-well,as demonstrated by George Orwell(Animal farm)-'some are more equal than others'-eh?.
My mate Cromwell?-What a Lad!!!-Tis my own personal opinion that he was one of Englands Greatest-hardly guilty of genocide because there is no records of him ordering any women and children be put to death-in fact-he was originally opposed to putting Charles 1st to death!-but PLEASE----lets not get into a History Debate!!!.
You are obviously very proud of your Irish descent-so you should be-I am also very proud of my own descent-its English.
My mate Cromwell?-What a Lad!!!-Tis my own personal opinion that he was one of Englands Greatest-hardly guilty of genocide because there is no records of him ordering any women and children be put to death-in fact-he was originally opposed to putting Charles 1st to death!-but PLEASE----lets not get into a History Debate!!!.
You are obviously very proud of your Irish descent-so you should be-I am also very proud of my own descent-its English.
People who have faced struggles are often left not so much proud, rather overawed, at the overcoming of them - and the Irish peoples have sure had more than their fair share.
I guess its the oft heard cry nowadays, I was born in England so I guess I must be English too - though I dont really think theres much to seperate any of us but for the accidents or possibly, good fortune of birth...........
I actually named one of my dogs Cromwell, many moons ago - he was a big soft Rotwieler who seemed to adopt me, so I let him stay and the name suited him so much it stuck - he was my lord protector for sure - but I never did much care for parliamentarians.......... or royalists either for that matter........
but now that the unwashed masses have got their hands on a bit of education too we may actually see some changes of lasting benefit.
and Im still totally against conscription too by the way
trish123: People who have faced struggles are often left not so much proud, rather overawed, at the overcoming of them - and the Irish peoples have sure had more than their fair share.
I guess its the oft heard cry nowadays, I was born in England so I guess I must be English too - though I dont really think theres much to seperate any of us but for the accidents or possibly, good fortune of birth...........
I actually named one of my dogs Cromwell, many moons ago - he was a big soft Rotwieler who seemed to adopt me, so I let him stay and the name suited him so much it stuck - he was my lord protector for sure - but I never did much care for parliamentarians.......... or royalists either for that matter........
but now that the unwashed masses have got their hands on a bit of education too we may actually see some changes of lasting benefit. and Im still totally against conscription too by the way
I guess its the oft heard cry nowadays, I was born in England so I guess I must be English too - though I dont really think theres much to seperate any of us but for the accidents or possibly, good fortune of birth...........
I actually named one of my dogs Cromwell, many moons ago - he was a big soft Rotwieler who seemed to adopt me, so I let him stay and the name suited him so much it stuck - he was my lord protector for sure - but I never did much care for parliamentarians.......... or royalists either for that matter........
but now that the unwashed masses have got their hands on a bit of education too we may actually see some changes of lasting benefit. and Im still totally against conscription too by the way
Well,Speaking as a product of the "Unwashed Masses"-I did kind of get the impression that you personally was against 'The reintroduction of National Service'(not to worry-you wont get called up!)-Lovely to hear about the Rottweiler-what a Tribute!.
Personally,I still think that a 3 yr stint in the armed forces is not a bad thing at all?-the armed forces is certainly NOT to be used as a dumping ground for societys bad boys(&girls)-more of a platform to realise a few things about yourself-and life as well?.
In the words of the Duke of Wellington-"Where would Society be without my Boys?"(sorry Trish!).
Anyway,I fear this thread is coming to an end-and i thank ALL contributors-especially Trish-whom,although volatile-has presented some thought provoking issues?-lets wait and see what the future has to offer?????.
contd.
Self actualisation: The point of reaching ones full potential. Are you capable at excelling yourself?
What potential?, by this stage many of the products of the inner city schools are convinced that they arent capable of very much at all - the current initiative to keep young people doing 'something' till they are 18 may just have an effect, on that one we will have to wait and see........
The above is only prevalent in certain areas and by no means applies to all of the people there and it is all very idyllic for somebody lucky enough to live in an area where there are at least 'some' employment opportunities and where desperation to provide doesnt always lead to despair, depression or crime.
Its no coincidence that the worst affected of these areas are where crime is beginning to bubble over at its violent worst - these youngsters need hope for the future rather than the self identity of 'criminal no hoper'.
What they dont need is a stint in the armed forces to thin out their numbers - what they dont need are patronising attitudes from people who think they know better than they do - these people self realise a lot sooner than most but their realisations come up empty and their self 'actualisations' form very different patterns to those formed by people from more priviliged backgrounds/areas.
Self actualisation: The point of reaching ones full potential. Are you capable at excelling yourself?
What potential?, by this stage many of the products of the inner city schools are convinced that they arent capable of very much at all - the current initiative to keep young people doing 'something' till they are 18 may just have an effect, on that one we will have to wait and see........
The above is only prevalent in certain areas and by no means applies to all of the people there and it is all very idyllic for somebody lucky enough to live in an area where there are at least 'some' employment opportunities and where desperation to provide doesnt always lead to despair, depression or crime.
Its no coincidence that the worst affected of these areas are where crime is beginning to bubble over at its violent worst - these youngsters need hope for the future rather than the self identity of 'criminal no hoper'.
What they dont need is a stint in the armed forces to thin out their numbers - what they dont need are patronising attitudes from people who think they know better than they do - these people self realise a lot sooner than most but their realisations come up empty and their self 'actualisations' form very different patterns to those formed by people from more priviliged backgrounds/areas.
Many Thanks for your 'Opinion' Trish-much Appreciated.
You demonstrate a strong interest in Behavourial Science-may i respectfully suggest some additional authorities whose theories you may find as interesting as Abraham Maslow?.
Elton Mayo
Professor E.Wight Bakke
Douglas McGregor
Frederick Herzberg
-------All good Theoretical Reading-------
You demonstrate a strong interest in Behavourial Science-may i respectfully suggest some additional authorities whose theories you may find as interesting as Abraham Maslow?.
Elton Mayo
Professor E.Wight Bakke
Douglas McGregor
Frederick Herzberg
-------All good Theoretical Reading-------
Yes, it is my opinion though it has been presented in an academic manner. It is based on and itemises a theory one of the most respected psychologists the world has known to date. This is demonstrated by the inclusion of his findings in the works of many 'current' reputable psychologists and sociologists alike.
You suggest some other authorities but neglect to say why you chose those particular ones - for the most part, I found their research to be outdated, biased, invalidated by negative sample research or totally irrelevant to attitudes in 2008.
I would be more than happy however, to discuss particular aspects of their research if you would care to elborate further.............
You suggest some other authorities but neglect to say why you chose those particular ones - for the most part, I found their research to be outdated, biased, invalidated by negative sample research or totally irrelevant to attitudes in 2008.
I would be more than happy however, to discuss particular aspects of their research if you would care to elborate further.............
trish123: Yes, it is my opinion though it has been presented in an academic manner. It is based on and itemises a theory one of the most respected psychologists the world has known to date. This is demonstrated by the inclusion of his findings in the works of many 'current' reputable psychologists and sociologists alike.You suggest some other authorities but neglect to say why you chose those particular ones - for the most part, I found their research to be outdated, biased, invalidated by negative sample research or totally irrelevant to attitudes in 2008.
I would be more than happy however, to discuss particular aspects of their research if you would care to elborate further.............
I would be more than happy however, to discuss particular aspects of their research if you would care to elborate further.............
As you say-Attitudes change-and no doubt will change again?-your appetite for researching theories is commendable-but i must respectfully decline your kind offer to elaborate further-I am,but a humble man,who has an agenda to enjoy life in preference to continual debate on theories which,on balance,can have no positive outcome other than in the pursuit of conversion to ones own opinion.
I wish you well with your research.
Beenabout: As you say-Attitudes change-and no doubt will change again?-your appetite for researching theories is commendable-but i must respectfully decline your kind offer to elaborate further-I am,but a humble man,who has an agenda to enjoy life in preference to continual debate on theories which,on balance,can have no positive outcome other than in the pursuit of conversion to ones own opinion.
I wish you well with your research.
I wish you well with your research.
My profuse apologies - I thought you started this thread to glean perspectives other than your own - maybe you are quite right, this thread is coming to an end............. I thought that was the whole idea of starting a thread personally, a bit of enlightenment from the perspective of others............. whatever.............
trish123: as is your supercilious self agrandisement, my dear man..........
Hi all.
Well i have just one final thing to say in all this.
Yes trish society has turned it's back on these kids, but just like our brave service men/women, these kids can choose between going out and causing damage, mayhem and kicking and stabing someone to death. Please do not tell me that society has turned these kids in to senless animals. They know what they are doing and they know it is wrong. We as a soceity must take steps to stop the muggings, the damage and the killings on our streets. I for one would rather see these kidsmade into responsible men and women Taught to respect others, learn disipline and rather the kill or and injure people on the streets of our country and our own folk, do a service to our country and kill our enemies instead.
Well I for one have no enemies I want killing.
Manetho: Hi all.
Well i have just one final thing to say in all this.
Yes trish society has turned it's back on these kids, but just like our brave service men/women, these kids can choose between going out and causing damage, mayhem and kicking and stabing someone to death. Please do not tell me that society has turned these kids in to senless animals. They know what they are doing and they know it is wrong. We as a soceity must take steps to stop the muggings, the damage and the killings on our streets. I for one would rather see these kidsmade into responsible men and women Taught to respect others, learn disipline and rather the kill or and injure people on the streets of our country and our own folk, do a service to our country and kill our enemies instead.
Those Kids are neither owned by you,nor owned by the State!!!Well i have just one final thing to say in all this.
Yes trish society has turned it's back on these kids, but just like our brave service men/women, these kids can choose between going out and causing damage, mayhem and kicking and stabing someone to death. Please do not tell me that society has turned these kids in to senless animals. They know what they are doing and they know it is wrong. We as a soceity must take steps to stop the muggings, the damage and the killings on our streets. I for one would rather see these kidsmade into responsible men and women Taught to respect others, learn disipline and rather the kill or and injure people on the streets of our country and our own folk, do a service to our country and kill our enemies instead.
If they commit a Crime,prosecute and punish them for it.
Strange,people proposing Pre-emptive Criminal Punishment in the Land of the Magna Charta!!!!
Manetho: Hi all.
Well i have just one final thing to say in all this.
Yes trish society has turned it's back on these kids, but just like our brave service men/women, these kids can choose between going out and causing damage, mayhem and kicking and stabing someone to death. Please do not tell me that society has turned these kids in to senless animals. They know what they are doing and they know it is wrong. We as a soceity must take steps to stop the muggings, the damage and the killings on our streets. I for one would rather see these kidsmade into responsible men and women Taught to respect others, learn disipline and rather the kill or and injure people on the streets of our country and our own folk, do a service to our country and kill our enemies instead.
Well i have just one final thing to say in all this.
Yes trish society has turned it's back on these kids, but just like our brave service men/women, these kids can choose between going out and causing damage, mayhem and kicking and stabing someone to death. Please do not tell me that society has turned these kids in to senless animals. They know what they are doing and they know it is wrong. We as a soceity must take steps to stop the muggings, the damage and the killings on our streets. I for one would rather see these kidsmade into responsible men and women Taught to respect others, learn disipline and rather the kill or and injure people on the streets of our country and our own folk, do a service to our country and kill our enemies instead.
haha, Id forgotten about that comment - its not my usual form of address but I never could stand people being patronising and I guess it was a response to that...........
Of course these kids choose their behaviours.......... thats exactly what Ive been harping on about - its not called the Urban Jungle for nothing - I think some people have no idea of just how difficult life on the streets of the inner city actually is
its all well and good looking at the symptons of social decay from the lofty vantage point of "Im alright Jack" - how could people who think that way ever grasp the realities of deprivation on the lives of people who exist in its midst........ its all academic if you have never been a kid in the midst of all that or at least to have grown with such kids - if we jump here to the hildren of the ultra rich - how many of us here grew up with kids like that?
Consumerism is rife and it is bringing out the worst of the primeval urge to succeed - sometimes I see society as a donkey which is being enticed forward by the jolly controllers with a carrot on a stick.......
Im not sure if it was down to the Marshall plan after WW2 or, if it was down to that guy who was a brother in law of Freud who got into the early advertising stuff of pushing tobacco (and look where that one got us) but society and especially people in power are swayed far too often simply because they dont ask for more facts - maybe we have all been Freaudianly duped into a materialist way of being so that we wont complain where stuff is produced just so long as we have this 'stuff'.................
These inner city kids see the materialism of the rest of sociey, tv ads etc, all the media benefit from advertising, its made many peple rich after all - everyone benefits except..................................
the kids who never had the entrance fees............
The zones of inner city deprivation, in diagram form look a little like a dart board but the rings vary in shade, the inner cities are an urgent red and the outer zones are a cool and floaty pink
Ladies & gentlemen.
May I still be permitted to address you as such.
I served with the RAF as an Aero Engine Fitter in the 1950's and early 60's on a development squadron for 3 years and 74 ( the Tigers) squadron for just over one year when we the first to have the Lightning Mk 1 (the fastst interceptor fighter in the world.
It was all British and had a quicker response tim than a Tornado 30 years later. The training and disciplines I learned included two years in the Fighter Command Band as a drummer (only achievable by audition) and have always held me in good stead thereafter, I received recognised qualifications at higher levels than GCSE's A levels and the crappy dumbed down NVQ's (Not Very Qualifieds) and on that basis alone I recommend such skilled service trade training to anyone.
I also feel qualified to say with some authority having done work for the MoD and private development because of it that while I respect the views expressed here, ALL the services NOW are aware of appropriate selection and suitability re- psychological and other factors and that includes me.
I was also before reirrement, a qualified Engineering trade Instructor which was also based partly on my military training and I invigilate at examinations.
What is also being overlooked possibly due to unawareness and younger people having not sampled themselves what I am about to say is that within the highly disciplined framework of military training (NOT basic squarebashing) there are many transferable skills and trades which can l be learned far quicker than can be done in Civvy street. -
They are being taught by far superior qualified instructors than most teachers in schools (I have two in the family) who are not allowed to teach so that military option should at least be considered, regardless of which trade or service one choses to apply for.
Repect to all
Mike
May I still be permitted to address you as such.
I served with the RAF as an Aero Engine Fitter in the 1950's and early 60's on a development squadron for 3 years and 74 ( the Tigers) squadron for just over one year when we the first to have the Lightning Mk 1 (the fastst interceptor fighter in the world.
It was all British and had a quicker response tim than a Tornado 30 years later. The training and disciplines I learned included two years in the Fighter Command Band as a drummer (only achievable by audition) and have always held me in good stead thereafter, I received recognised qualifications at higher levels than GCSE's A levels and the crappy dumbed down NVQ's (Not Very Qualifieds) and on that basis alone I recommend such skilled service trade training to anyone.
I also feel qualified to say with some authority having done work for the MoD and private development because of it that while I respect the views expressed here, ALL the services NOW are aware of appropriate selection and suitability re- psychological and other factors and that includes me.
I was also before reirrement, a qualified Engineering trade Instructor which was also based partly on my military training and I invigilate at examinations.
What is also being overlooked possibly due to unawareness and younger people having not sampled themselves what I am about to say is that within the highly disciplined framework of military training (NOT basic squarebashing) there are many transferable skills and trades which can l be learned far quicker than can be done in Civvy street. -
They are being taught by far superior qualified instructors than most teachers in schools (I have two in the family) who are not allowed to teach so that military option should at least be considered, regardless of which trade or service one choses to apply for.
Repect to all
Mike
we have missed you in the forums,mike,a sensible man,down to earth and straightforward and always a gent,a dying breed
mike1937: Ladies & gentlemen.
May I still be permitted to address you as such.
I served with the RAF as an Aero Engine Fitter in the 1950's and early 60's on a development squadron for 3 years and 74 ( the Tigers) squadron for just over one year when we the first to have the Lightning Mk 1 (the fastst interceptor fighter in the world.
It was all British and had a quicker response tim than a Tornado 30 years later. The training and disciplines I learned included two years in the Fighter Command Band as a drummer (only achievable by audition) and have always held me in good stead thereafter, I received recognised qualifications at higher levels than GCSE's A levels and the crappy dumbed down NVQ's (Not Very Qualifieds) and on that basis alone I recommend such skilled service trade training to anyone.
I also feel qualified to say with some authority having done work for the MoD and private development because of it that while I respect the views expressed here, ALL the services NOW are aware of appropriate selection and suitability re- psychological and other factors and that includes me.
I was also before reirrement, a qualified Engineering trade Instructor which was also based partly on my military training and I invigilate at examinations.
What is also being overlooked possibly due to unawareness and younger people having not sampled themselves what I am about to say is that within the highly disciplined framework of military training (NOT basic squarebashing) there are many transferable skills and trades which can l be learned far quicker than can be done in Civvy street. -
They are being taught by far superior qualified instructors than most teachers in schools (I have two in the family) who are not allowed to teach so that military option should at least be considered, regardless of which trade or service one choses to apply for.
Repect to all
Mike
Yet what you describe still works best on a Volunteer Basis.May I still be permitted to address you as such.
I served with the RAF as an Aero Engine Fitter in the 1950's and early 60's on a development squadron for 3 years and 74 ( the Tigers) squadron for just over one year when we the first to have the Lightning Mk 1 (the fastst interceptor fighter in the world.
It was all British and had a quicker response tim than a Tornado 30 years later. The training and disciplines I learned included two years in the Fighter Command Band as a drummer (only achievable by audition) and have always held me in good stead thereafter, I received recognised qualifications at higher levels than GCSE's A levels and the crappy dumbed down NVQ's (Not Very Qualifieds) and on that basis alone I recommend such skilled service trade training to anyone.
I also feel qualified to say with some authority having done work for the MoD and private development because of it that while I respect the views expressed here, ALL the services NOW are aware of appropriate selection and suitability re- psychological and other factors and that includes me.
I was also before reirrement, a qualified Engineering trade Instructor which was also based partly on my military training and I invigilate at examinations.
What is also being overlooked possibly due to unawareness and younger people having not sampled themselves what I am about to say is that within the highly disciplined framework of military training (NOT basic squarebashing) there are many transferable skills and trades which can l be learned far quicker than can be done in Civvy street. -
They are being taught by far superior qualified instructors than most teachers in schools (I have two in the family) who are not allowed to teach so that military option should at least be considered, regardless of which trade or service one choses to apply for.
Repect to all
Mike
Imagine having unwilling Conscripts doing this kind of work.
Conrad73: Yet what you describe still works best on a Volunteer Basis.
Imagine having unwilling Conscripts doing this kind of work.
Imagine having unwilling Conscripts doing this kind of work.
OK - With respect - I do not know if your background was military at any time not that it is relevant -
But I DID mention that there are ways of sorting wheat out from chaff and I only speak from hands on experience inside and outside the service I chose at the time to volunteer for. (1954) aged 16 and a bit
Any unwilling Conscripts today can and would be soon discovered and *selected* for whatever tasks the service they entered saw fit, dependant on their attitudes and capabilities and if they show promise it is rewarded.
It would NOT be a bad thing to let them sample pride in themselves and being part of a team which is what the basic training disciplines and self-discipline teaches them. That is especially the case with most who would never at any time experienced any at school or dare I say it - at home.,
That incidentally is also the considered view of my great Nephew who unlike many of his school mates had a very good upbringing, entered the Army at 17 and is now a technician Signaller who served in Iraq in 2007, is going to Afghanistan soon, probably as a Corporal and he is only 21.
So I say that a stint in the services would give so many drop outs etc a chance that it cannot be dismissed!!
Mike Dennis Broadstairs Kent UK
Hello Mike.
Nice to see you back.
I did say in my last post on this subject that it would be my last. But you did bring up a very good point. Young people often complain that they have nothing to do. The armed forces can give them that oppertunity to find some trade which they could use in civi life. It as i have said before, will teach them respect and life's values.
I know from my roles as team leader and supervisor that to develop a person with low conferdence you must push them and show them that they can do the job.
It is the same with youngters. If we force them to learn new trades and show them that gang life is leading them nowhere then a life behide bars. Then it is our responsibility to do that.
Who knows they my like the armed forces and stay there. Even though we as a socitity has forced them into the forces, we then sit back and let them make the choices. Do they go back to gang life of do they make something of thier life's.
Nice to see you back.
I did say in my last post on this subject that it would be my last. But you did bring up a very good point. Young people often complain that they have nothing to do. The armed forces can give them that oppertunity to find some trade which they could use in civi life. It as i have said before, will teach them respect and life's values.
I know from my roles as team leader and supervisor that to develop a person with low conferdence you must push them and show them that they can do the job.
It is the same with youngters. If we force them to learn new trades and show them that gang life is leading them nowhere then a life behide bars. Then it is our responsibility to do that.
Who knows they my like the armed forces and stay there. Even though we as a socitity has forced them into the forces, we then sit back and let them make the choices. Do they go back to gang life of do they make something of thier life's.
mike1937: OK - With respect - I do not know if your background was military at any time not that it is relevant -
But I DID mention that there are ways of sorting wheat out from chaff and I only speak from hands on experience inside and outside the service I chose at the time to volunteer for. (1954) aged 16 and a bit
Any unwilling Conscripts today can and would be soon discovered and *selected* for whatever tasks the service they entered saw fit, dependant on their attitudes and capabilities and if they show promise it is rewarded.
It would NOT be a bad thing to let them sample pride in themselves and being part of a team which is what the basic training disciplines and self-discipline teaches them. That is especially the case with most who would never at any time experienced any at school or dare I say it - at home.,
That incidentally is also the considered view of my great Nephew who unlike many of his school mates had a very good upbringing, entered the Army at 17 and is now a technician Signaller who served in Iraq in 2007, is going to Afghanistan soon, probably as a Corporal and he is only 21.
So I say that a stint in the services would give so many drop outs etc a chance that it cannot be dismissed!!
Mike Dennis Broadstairs Kent UK
But I DID mention that there are ways of sorting wheat out from chaff and I only speak from hands on experience inside and outside the service I chose at the time to volunteer for. (1954) aged 16 and a bit
Any unwilling Conscripts today can and would be soon discovered and *selected* for whatever tasks the service they entered saw fit, dependant on their attitudes and capabilities and if they show promise it is rewarded.
It would NOT be a bad thing to let them sample pride in themselves and being part of a team which is what the basic training disciplines and self-discipline teaches them. That is especially the case with most who would never at any time experienced any at school or dare I say it - at home.,
That incidentally is also the considered view of my great Nephew who unlike many of his school mates had a very good upbringing, entered the Army at 17 and is now a technician Signaller who served in Iraq in 2007, is going to Afghanistan soon, probably as a Corporal and he is only 21.
So I say that a stint in the services would give so many drop outs etc a chance that it cannot be dismissed!!
Mike Dennis Broadstairs Kent UK
Hello Mike
Nice to see you back 
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The latter is certainly the likeliest to attain-but,in all honesty,is it practical to believe that ANY Government whatsoever can be devoid of those human traits being:Corruption,Greed,Insincereity etc?-it is even rife in the infrastructure of Religous Institutions!.
Perhaps,we can share a common principle that since Oliver Cromwell led the people of England to defeat such injustices-and install a 'Rump' Parliament-which,even then,proved to have its inadequacies-the whole system of government since has been like a 'Rubber Ball'-introducing and reintroducing legislation to suit their ambitions-whatever the motive?.