John McCain's Sons ( Archived) (411)

Oct 19, 2008 1:41 AM CST John McCain's Sons
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Indyfella: So you think the McCain campaign sits around chanting Hussein.... Say it ain't so Joe.You might get a "spectator" doing that. I'm sure the press wouldn't hesitate to report it.
Is it safe to assume all Obama supporters are as pure as the driven snow?



Read my response to sparky..and that's not what I said...





Obama 'Muslim' rumour: Ugly, false and out in the open
Is the discredited smear campaign backfiring on Republicans?

Neil Macdonald CBC News


Republican presidential candidate Senator John McCain takes back the microphone from Gayle Quinnell who said she read that Senator Barack Obama 'was an Arab,' during a town hall meeting in Lakeville, Minn., on Oct. 10. Republican presidential candidate Senator John McCain takes back the microphone from Gayle Quinnell who said she read that Senator Barack Obama 'was an Arab,' during a town hall meeting in Lakeville, Minn., on Oct. 10. (Jim Mone/Associated Press)

The "moment in Minnesota" appeared last Friday like the white, infected head of a pimple - impossible to miss, hard not to stare at, and embarrassing, at least to John McCain, who wants to present an unblemished face to the voting public.

Wearing her bright red McCain-Palin T-shirt, Gayle Quinnell rose from the crowd at a rally in Lakeville, Minn. to give her candidate a little of his signature straight talk.

"I don't trust Obama," she announced, as McCain nodded enthusiastically. Then she continued: "I have read about him. He's an Arab."

And there it was. Centre stage, on camera, about as public as you can get. The political pus that's been building for nearly two years under the surface of this presidential campaign, oozing forth in broad daylight.

McCain, a politician who's been around long enough to recognize a "moment" when he sees one, cauterized quickly.

"No. Nope. No, ma'am. No, ma'am," said the candidate, grabbing back the mike. "He's a decent family man citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with . . ."

But, setting aside the internal implication of McCain's reply — that Obama can't be an Arab if he's a decent citizen and family man — and its impact on the sensibilities of this country's 3.5 million Arab-American citizens, McCain cannot have been too surprised by what he faced on that stage. Because his campaign has helped create it.

Gayle Quinnell is in fact the collective voice of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of Americans whose nativist fears Republicans have been stoking for months. The Americans who have been passing on smear-mails for years.

"Beware," said the first one I saw, back in January of 2007. "Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim."

It went on to reveal that Obama's African father was a "radical Muslim." and that Obama himself had studied at an extremist school in Jakarta. Other messages declare Obama refused to be sworn into the Senate on a Bible. Or that he refuses to recite the pledge of allegiance.

The e-mails are patently false, and have been widely debunked. But whisper campaigns are as persistent as the flu.

Clearly — witness Ms. Quinnell in Minnesota — the message has had an effect. Any reporter who's covered this campaign has seen it.

(Cont'd)....wine
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Oct 19, 2008 1:42 AM CST John McCain's Sons
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
I heard it in May, as parishioners gathered outside a Baptist church in North Carolina. And I've heard it in the highly-educated, genteel suburbs of Washington.

A colleague says he's encountered the same thing in Indiana, Pennsylvania and Missouri: "It's usually 'I know he says he isn't, but I think he's a Muslim.' You hear it everywhere."

The whisper campaign seems particularly directed at Jewish voters, playing on their fears that Obama might not be pro-Israel enough, or that he is somehow in league with Muslims, read Arabs, read terrorists.

But Jewish readers of the New York Times might have been surprised this week by an article that identified where a lot of this stuff originated: Andy Martin, a conspiracy theorist who once set for himself the goal of "exterminating Jew power." Martin is apparently fond of filing lawsuits, some of which use even more pungent anti-Semitic rhetoric. He once filed a brief calling a judge a "crooked, slimy Jew."

Martin evidently isn't too keen on Muslims, either, and he was one of the first out of the gate questioning Obama's heritage.

The Times investigation traced the origin of the smear-mail campaign to Martin's self-published writings. And by the time the presidential race got under way, the e-mails had laid a foundation for organized conservative attacks.

Speakers at Republican events began referring to "Barack Hussein Obama," with heavy emphasis on their opponent's middle name.

At a McCain rally in Iowa, Rev. Arnold Conrad told the crowd: "There are millions of people around this world praying to their God — whether it's Hindu, Buddha, Allah — that wins, for a variety of reasons." Those people, declared the churchman, would think their God bigger than the Christian God if that were to happen.


Early on, McCain himself demurred. He chastised a conservative talk-show host for warming up one of his crowds with the "Barack Hussein Obama" line, and distanced himself from Rev. Conrad: "I will not tolerate anything in this campaign that denigrates either Sen. Obama or Sen. Clinton," said McCain.

But this fall, as Obama's campaign gathered force, McCain evidently decided to tolerate some mud after all.


Speakers introducing him at rallies again started using the "Barack Hussein Obama" line, now with the Republican candidate standing nearby smiling.


And McCain's surrogates, led by his running mate Sarah Palin, began sharpening a more specific story line.

They seized upon Obama's past association with William Ayers, who, along with other members of the radical Weathermen group, bombed various government targets, including the Pentagon, in the early 1970s.

Ayers long ago turned himself in and became a university professor and community organizer. In those capacities, he met Obama during the mid-90s. The two served together on a civic project founded by the Annenberg Foundation, and Ayers's work won him the Chicago Citizen of the Year Award in 1997.

To Palin, though, what Obama did in the mid-90s was to forge a close and enduring tie with a "domestic terrorist." In fact, she has told rally after rally, Obama is even now "palling around with terrorists who would target their own country." No explanation of how a "domestic terrorist" became "terrorists." And not even any lip service to Obama's repudiation of Ayers's past bad acts.

The Republican chairman in Virginia, Jeffrey M. Fredrick, goes further. He compares Obama to Osama Bin Laden. "Both have friends who bombed the Pentagon," he says. "That is scary."

And so on. Obama as a terrorist, Obama as a Muslim, Obama as someone fundamentally different, someone mysterious to Americans, who doesn't share American values. Obama, who seems to want to lose in Iraq.


(Cont'd)....wine
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Oct 19, 2008 1:42 AM CST John McCain's Sons
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
By last week, the crowds at McCain rallies were turning ugly. Mention of Obama's name invoked cries of "terrorist!" or "bomb him!" or "traitor!" or "off with his head!"


And little wonder, given this country's not-so-distant history, that the Secret Service contingent surrounding Obama is now laying on security measures rivaling those of the president himself.

McCain has begun trying to tamp down the hostility, telling supporters at rallies that they have "no reason to be scared" of Obama.

But Gayle Quinnell, for one, remains resolute. Obama, she told reporters after her moment on stage last week with McCain, is "a Muslim and a terrorist . . .all the people agree with what I said."

And Fox News Channel, of course, remains hot on the case.

A few days ago, Fox host Sean Hannity broadcast a segment titled: "Obama and Friends: The History of Radicalism." In it, introduced by Hannity as an "author and journalist," was none other than Andy Martin, originator of the anti-Obama e-mails.


Martin helpfully explained to Hannity that Obama spent his early years "in training for a radical overthrow of the government."


All of this, however, may now have actually turned against McCain.

The New York Times published a new poll this week suggesting Obama now enjoys as much as a 14-point lead over McCain in the polls. And some of that, said the paper, is directly because of the character attacks.


wine
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Oct 19, 2008 1:47 AM CST John McCain's Sons
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Sparky55: Actually Hugz, I just relooked at that and there really is no clear use of that from the McCain campaign. Sorry for the confusion.



Yes you're right it stems from people introducing him at rallies...but if you look at what I just posted...you'll why people believe that and highlight his middle name that way....and yes it comes from the terrorist link...even if it is domestic terrorism...as soon as people hear...the word they think of 911....wave wink hug teddybear hug bouquet
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Oct 19, 2008 1:48 AM CST John McCain's Sons
Sparky55
Sparky55Sparky55Somewhere, Afghanistan48 Threads 1 Polls 2,678 Posts
desmond: Sparky you might be right I can not say yes or no but if I was running for president and the intro people was say things that I did not agree with I will hope that I can stop it but I do not know I might just be living in a fantsay land .Sparky I alway injoy reading your input even if i do not agree with it I do learn alot


Hey Desmond,

Thanks for your comment. If all of us could discuss things in this way we would all learn a little more. I also find your posts to be very fair and well thought out.
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Oct 19, 2008 1:49 AM CST John McCain's Sons
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
Hugz_n_Kissez: Yes you're right it stems from people introducing him at rallies...but if you look at what I just posted...you'll why people believe that and highlight his middle name that way....and yes it comes from the terrorist link...even if it is domestic terrorism...as soon as people hear...the word they think of 911....



So as with Ship....there should be no historical discussion of terrorism or 9/11? Correct?
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Oct 19, 2008 1:51 AM CST John McCain's Sons
desmond
desmonddesmondkissimmee, Florida USA375 Threads 10,888 Posts
Sparky55: Hey Desmond,

Thanks for your comment. If all of us could discuss things in this way we would all learn a little more. I also find your posts to be very fair and well thought out.




Thank you sparky but I say out of threads like this because i watch and see as soon as someone does not agree with the person thoughts they attack them personaly and that is just said handshake cheers
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Oct 19, 2008 1:52 AM CST John McCain's Sons
shipoker58
shipoker58shipoker58Las Vegas, Nevada USA30 Threads 2,969 Posts
Indyfella: So as with Ship....there should be no historical discussion of terrorism or 9/11? Correct?




No where did I say that. I beg you to show where that was said!!
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Oct 19, 2008 1:52 AM CST John McCain's Sons
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
jbibiza: You know what Indy... what may be fun for you isn´t necessarily fun for others.. now that I´m not on the poli. threads as much you turn to Ship to ridicule and play your silly word games with You and jlw45 have become like a couple of school yard bullies... anyone who dares to disagree with you is ridiculed and harrassed.

Regarding Snopes.com it´s one of the few places to find out if something is true or a lie...and not affiliated with any political party.... you may want to refer to it before you post more of the lies and innuendo that is so rampant in the McCain/Palin behind the scenes campaign.

More and more of these so called facts are being sent in letters and chain emails and no truth to any of them... but I see you, like so many are becoming sheep and blindly passing on information because you read it some where. Because it´s in print doesn´t make it true. I thought you of all people would realize this after the way you are constantly preaching about the media. Follow your own words... don´t believe everything you read.

If I remember right the last time you posted something that Obama said... it wound up being a quote from McCain.... and yet you continue on harrassing others for their so called ignorance????


After a little more thought...why don't you jump in on one of Dude's 25 threads and address all his "factual errors" as each post has them. Since you're a good moderator.
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Oct 19, 2008 1:57 AM CST John McCain's Sons
Sparky55
Sparky55Sparky55Somewhere, Afghanistan48 Threads 1 Polls 2,678 Posts
desmond: Thank you sparky but I say out of threads like this because i watch and see as soon as someone does not agree with the person thoughts they attack them personaly and that is just said


That's true, it does get rather nasty at times. Sometimes i think about giving it up but I do enjoy the research this kind of thing demands. Enjoy the night, time for me to take a break. beer
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Oct 19, 2008 2:02 AM CST John McCain's Sons
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
shipoker58: my point is he was never a Muslim


Ship, I think that Obama is a Christian. I also think that he spent his religous 'decisions years' as a youth in a Muslim country, attending a Muslim school.

More people at those young ages make thier decision of faith than any other age.

Do you think that your faith or mine, could get 'twisted' if during those decision years.....we lived in a Muslim country and attended a Muslim school?

I did not meet my first Muslim untill age 18. Obama grew up in a multi cultured family of Christian and Muslim. He had more contact with Muslims by the age 10, than most have until they get to college.

According to his own admission.....it was not until Rev. Wright 'led him to Christ' in his late 20s when he became a Christian.

You simply don't wish to admit any of that with your statement, Ship.

But it gives you context on how he can say in the OP, what was said.
I don't know if such was said by Obama......but can understand if it was said by him.....with that context of his past.

Everyone has a different journey in life to Christ and with God in my opinion. A different path so to speak. I am not saying that Obama's was less or more than someone elses. Because if you really understand the Cross.....it makes everyone just about the same. The Cross is the great equalizer, Ship.

I feel there are plus's and negatives to Obama's past and youth. Plus's certainly are his ethnic and cultural diversity allow him to identify and make contact with a wide range of peoples, cultures and faiths.

Negatives are that most Americans are Christians, wish to be lead by a Christian firmly rooted in the faith. And after seeing some of Rev. Wright's church services and hearing Louis Farracon calling him "the modern Messiah" and knowing this history of Muslim connections......have questions to how rooted in that faith he is.

People (around the globe) have placed this election as watermark test of if the American society is racially biased, or Muslim phobic, or radically challenged. To them if Obama is defeated or challenged on such issues......it means the society or person is biased and to be condemmed. If they wish to make that judgement on 300 million Americans....hey have it. If they wish to make the judgement on me....as I have vetted Obama as any American should.....hey again have at it.

It was the society of those 300 milllion Americans....that let a young man by the name of Barak Obama.....have the education, the opportunities in life to have a shot at its top Government position.
It was individuals like myself and others, that have religous tolerance and ethnic tolerance that made that kind of society a reality.

Name another country in the world.....that lets minority personage have such a opportunity? You will think long and hard to find one.
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Oct 19, 2008 2:07 AM CST John McCain's Sons
shipoker58
shipoker58shipoker58Las Vegas, Nevada USA30 Threads 2,969 Posts
ttom500: Ship, I think that Obama is a Christian. I also think that he spent his religous 'decisions years' as a youth in a Muslim country, attending a Muslim school.

More people at those young ages make thier decision of faith than any other age.

Do you think that your faith or mine, could get 'twisted' if during those decision years.....we lived in a Muslim country and attended a Muslim school?

I did not meet my first Muslim untill age 18. Obama grew up in a multi cultured family of Christian and Muslim. He had more contact with Muslims by the age 10, than most have until they get to college.

According to his own admission.....it was not until Rev. Wright 'led him to Christ' in his late 20s when he became a Christian.

You simply don't wish to admit any of that with your statement, Ship.

But it gives you context on how he can say in the OP, what was said.
I don't know if such was said by Obama......but can understand if it was said by him.....with that context of his past.

Everyone has a different journey in life to Christ and with God in my opinion. A different path so to speak. I am not saying that Obama's was less or more than someone elses. Because if you really understand the Cross.....it makes everyone just about the same. The Cross is the great equalizer, Ship.

I feel there are plus's and negatives to Obama's past and youth. Plus's certainly are his ethnic and cultural diversity allow him to identify and make contact with a wide range of peoples, cultures and faiths.

Negatives are that most Americans are Christians, wish to be lead by a Christian firmly rooted in the faith. And after seeing some of Rev. Wright's church services and hearing Louis Farracon calling him "the modern Messiah" and knowing this history of Muslim connections......have questions to how rooted in that faith he is.

People (around the globe) have placed this election as watermark test of if the American society is racially biased, or Muslim phobic, or radically challenged. To them if Obama is defeated or challenged on such issues......it means the society or person is biased and to be condemmed. If they wish to make that judgement on 300 million Americans....hey have it. If they wish to make the judgement on me....as I have vetted Obama as any American should.....hey again have at it.

It was the society of those 300 milllion Americans....that let a young man by the name of Barak Obama.....have the education, the opportunities in life to have a shot at its top Government position.
It was individuals like myself and others, that have religous tolerance and ethnic tolerance that made that kind of society a reality.

Name another country in the world.....that lets minority personage have such a opportunity? You will think long and hard to find one.





This doesn't even deserve my attention!
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Oct 19, 2008 2:08 AM CST John McCain's Sons
shipoker58
shipoker58shipoker58Las Vegas, Nevada USA30 Threads 2,969 Posts
But of course I am still waiting to see where i saiod 9-11 should not be discussed
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Oct 19, 2008 2:13 AM CST John McCain's Sons
desmond
desmonddesmondkissimmee, Florida USA375 Threads 10,888 Posts
ttom500: Ship, I think that Obama is a Christian. I also think that he spent his religous 'decisions years' as a youth in a Muslim country, attending a Muslim school.

More people at those young ages make thier decision of faith than any other age.

Do you think that your faith or mine, could get 'twisted' if during those decision years.....we lived in a Muslim country and attended a Muslim school?

I did not meet my first Muslim untill age 18. Obama grew up in a multi cultured family of Christian and Muslim. He had more contact with Muslims by the age 10, than most have until they get to college.

According to his own admission.....it was not until Rev. Wright 'led him to Christ' in his late 20s when he became a Christian.

You simply don't wish to admit any of that with your statement, Ship.

But it gives you context on how he can say in the OP, what was said.
I don't know if such was said by Obama......but can understand if it was said by him.....with that context of his past.

Everyone has a different journey in life to Christ and with God in my opinion. A different path so to speak. I am not saying that Obama's was less or more than someone elses. Because if you really understand the Cross.....it makes everyone just about the same. The Cross is the great equalizer, Ship.

I feel there are plus's and negatives to Obama's past and youth. Plus's certainly are his ethnic and cultural diversity allow him to identify and make contact with a wide range of peoples, cultures and faiths.

Negatives are that most Americans are Christians, wish to be lead by a Christian firmly rooted in the faith. And after seeing some of Rev. Wright's church services and hearing Louis Farracon calling him "the modern Messiah" and knowing this history of Muslim connections......have questions to how rooted in that faith he is.

People (around the globe) have placed this election as watermark test of if the American society is racially biased, or Muslim phobic, or radically challenged. To them if Obama is defeated or challenged on such issues......it means the society or person is biased and to be condemmed. If they wish to make that judgement on 300 million Americans....hey have it. If they wish to make the judgement on me....as I have vetted Obama as any American should.....hey again have at it.

It was the society of those 300 milllion Americans....that let a young man by the name of Barak Obama.....have the education, the opportunities in life to have a shot at its top Government position.
It was individuals like myself and others, that have religous tolerance and ethnic tolerance that made that kind of society a reality.

Name another country in the world.....that lets minority personage have such a opportunity? You will think long and hard to find one.



Yes ST CLOUD IS SUCH A TOLARANCE PLACE I have worked in your ton and only in the last 2 years after the orange groves were slod and black and hispanace people move into your happy town that I will even think of come there after dark
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Oct 19, 2008 2:15 AM CST John McCain's Sons
jlw45
jlw45jlw45Moyers, Oklahoma USA66 Threads 1 Polls 15,566 Posts
ttom500: Ship, I think that Obama is a Christian. I also think that he spent his religous 'decisions years' as a youth in a Muslim country, attending a Muslim school.

More people at those young ages make thier decision of faith than any other age.

Do you think that your faith or mine, could get 'twisted' if during those decision years.....we lived in a Muslim country and attended a Muslim school?

I did not meet my first Muslim untill age 18. Obama grew up in a multi cultured family of Christian and Muslim. He had more contact with Muslims by the age 10, than most have until they get to college.

According to his own admission.....it was not until Rev. Wright 'led him to Christ' in his late 20s when he became a Christian.

You simply don't wish to admit any of that with your statement, Ship.

But it gives you context on how he can say in the OP, what was said.
I don't know if such was said by Obama......but can understand if it was said by him.....with that context of his past.

Everyone has a different journey in life to Christ and with God in my opinion. A different path so to speak. I am not saying that Obama's was less or more than someone elses. Because if you really understand the Cross.....it makes everyone just about the same. The Cross is the great equalizer, Ship.

I feel there are plus's and negatives to Obama's past and youth. Plus's certainly are his ethnic and cultural diversity allow him to identify and make contact with a wide range of peoples, cultures and faiths.

Negatives are that most Americans are Christians, wish to be lead by a Christian firmly rooted in the faith. And after seeing some of Rev. Wright's church services and hearing Louis Farracon calling him "the modern Messiah" and knowing this history of Muslim connections......have questions to how rooted in that faith he is.

People (around the globe) have placed this election as watermark test of if the American society is racially biased, or Muslim phobic, or radically challenged. To them if Obama is defeated or challenged on such issues......it means the society or person is biased and to be condemmed. If they wish to make that judgement on 300 million Americans....hey have it. If they wish to make the judgement on me....as I have vetted Obama as any American should.....hey again have at it.

It was the society of those 300 milllion Americans....that let a young man by the name of Barak Obama.....have the education, the opportunities in life to have a shot at its top Government position.
It was individuals like myself and others, that have religous tolerance and ethnic tolerance that made that kind of society a reality.

Name another country in the world.....that lets minority personage have such a opportunity? You will think long and hard to find one.
i think it should get someones attentionapplause applause applause
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Oct 19, 2008 2:19 AM CST John McCain's Sons
jlw45
jlw45jlw45Moyers, Oklahoma USA66 Threads 1 Polls 15,566 Posts
Indyfella: Would that be like making McCain seem "erratic" ..."out of touch" , etc. Things that demean his character.
Correct? (we don't need Snopes for that)It's a fact (I wont' use Snopes) that Dems are viewed as weak on national defense. It's been that way for 40 years. Obama could be whiter than my butt and Republicans would play the same angle.

Dems are big on playing class envy... (another fact...happens every election) or we could call it wealth re-distribution to be more polite.

These elections don't change just the faces do. (Snopes it to death everyone)

Perhaps Dude's thread could be used as a source.
scold oooh now....dont be a bully...............
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Oct 19, 2008 2:20 AM CST John McCain's Sons
jbibiza
jbibizajbibizaCasinos, Valencia Spain94 Threads 4 Polls 4,914 Posts
Indyfella: After a little more thought...why don't you jump in on one of Dude's 25 threads and address all his "factual errors" as each post has them. Since you're a good moderator.



I have on more than one occasion said that I thought "dude" did more harm then good to Obama´s cause by posting in the manner that he does... if you have one good fact surrounded by a bunch of unfounded innuendo you destroy the credibility of everything... I don´t advocate this type of crap on either side of the fence... it would just take to much time to go through all dudes posts.... and most are intelligent enough not to give much merit to those threads.
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Oct 19, 2008 2:20 AM CST John McCain's Sons
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
shipoker58: typical Republican politics....win through intimadation. Business as usual. If you have no solid points...insult.



The pot calling the kettle black....
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Oct 19, 2008 2:21 AM CST John McCain's Sons
desmond
desmonddesmondkissimmee, Florida USA375 Threads 10,888 Posts
desmond: Yes ST CLOUD IS SUCH A TOLARANCE PLACE I have worked in your ton and only in the last 2 years after the orange groves were slod and black and hispanace people move into your happy town that I will even think of come there after dark



And just an example I got pulled over for speeding in your happy town and yes i was speeding .The whit cop asked me what I was I say I do not understand what you are asking me he said again what are you until i got the hint so I smile prudly and said I am black and I will pay my ticket with a smile on my face
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Oct 19, 2008 2:22 AM CST John McCain's Sons
shipoker58
shipoker58shipoker58Las Vegas, Nevada USA30 Threads 2,969 Posts
Indyfella: The pot calling the kettle black....




Still waiting for my answer
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