Numerous speakers spoke about human rights problems related to White Supremacy groups, but do we have the courage to examine the Christian Supremacy groups, often camouflaged as proselytizers? We heard condemnations of hate speech, but do we exempt hate speech when it is done in the name of God, quoted from a sacred book? The following phrases are commonly used by proselytizers in describing their non-Christian target prospects: "sinners," "condemned," "damned," "heathen," "pagan," etc. If it were not done under the cover of religion, would this not have been declared as hate speech? Does such speech, even if disguised, generate communal tension? Is this responsible for negative episodes in India between Hindus and Christians who coexisted peacefully for centuries before the arrival of the proselytizers? In America's tapestry of pluralistic faiths, Hindus are among one's classmates, neighbors and coworkers. Might this language lead to social problems in the future? Does it violate the UN Human Rights provision that guarantees "dignity" to all people as a basic human right?
Going against proselytizing is not an attack against Christianity, as many Christians do not believe in proselytizing. Throughout its history, proselytizing has been a weapon for imperialism. It has never been friendly to the indigenous, be it in Africa, America, Asia or even Europe itself. Gandhi confirmed: "I consider Western Christianity in its practical working a negation of Christ's Christianity. I cannot conceive Jesus, if he was living in flesh in our midst, approving of modern Christian organizations, public worship or ministry."
Religions are often becoming commercial "brands" competing for market share, selling both God's love and insurance from hell. Islam, Christianity and the dogma of Marxism have unquenchable thirsts for quantitative expansion, simply because they hanker after political power and materialistic objectives. In North India, the Southern Baptists alone have 4,700 workers, 15,000 career missionaries, 50,000 volunteers, 1,000 new college graduates per year with an average two-year length of service. In total, there are estimated to be 100,000 career Christian missionaries in India, a size several times the sales force of the largest Indian corporations.
While a Hindu may participate in Christian activities or beliefs without violating Hinduism, the reverse is untrue. By joining Christianity under the false expectation that it would not affect his Hindu faith, he gradually begins to get pressured by his newly-adopted Christian faith from keeping his Hindu identity or practices. Eventually, this leads to social and cultural alienation from his roots. Hence, the idea of dual religious affiliation, while fine for a Hindu, is a one-way street, and has become a political ploy for Christians to convert those who wish to retain Hindu practices. For example, in South India, Catholic priests dress up like Hindu swamis, call their organizations ashrams and the preachers "gurus." But they are actively engaged in surreptitious conversion. Their Hindu dress is not to honor Hindu traditions but to make Christianity more familiar. Bharata Natayam dance is being taught in Christian schools in South India, with Christian symbols gradually replacing Hindu ones.
Harmony among the religions of the world is unachievable as long as some of them see others as competitors, even in the holy game of soul saving. Mere tolerance is simply external and fails to address internalized prejudice. What is lacking is respect.
There is no central authority to control people's personal beliefs in Hinduism, which respects many paths. There are many God-Truths, but these are merely representations by different people of a single God-Truth. This has given rise to hundreds of sects and subsects within Hinduism, which have learned to coexist. Hindus never target anyone for conversion, so the motive for hatred is not there. Rather, Hindus are challenging Christian prejudices against Hindus. It is the general Muslim view that Hindus are idolators, polytheists and kafirs and doomed in the eyes of Allah. Hindus have no such doctrines about Islam. Hindu dislike of Christianity and Islam is largely a backlash against efforts to convert them.
In Hinduism, there is no concept similar to Christian martyrdom or Islamic jihad. The most important and revered historical figures of Hinduism were not martyrs. Spirituality is not about fighting someone or some religion. There is no discussion of other religions in Hindu scriptures, no campaigns against "false gods." Comparative religion is not of much interest to Hindus, as they do not see religion through competitive or predatory eyes. Christians, on the other hand, go out of their way to control positions in academics, to research and to teach about Hinduism, as a sort of competitor intelligence gathering which seeks hegemony.
The Dalai Lama recommends a moratorium on proselytizing in order to given cooperative pluralism a chance. Likewise, Gandhi wrote: "If I had the power and could legislate, I would stop all proselytizing." Conversion belongs to the times of colonialism. No society has advanced, spiritually or materially, by converting from one faith to another. It can be proven that the economic progress in Europe happened only when the hold of the Vatican was reduced. When Christianity accepts the right of other people to follow their own beliefs and creeds, then only will Jesus Christ's spirit truly radiate in the world.
Every marketing company, despite its firm belief that it has the "best" or even only "true" product, must comply with norms of fair competition. Organized religion must be accepted as a field of competing worldviews, with economic and political interests. There must exist certain ethics of "marketing" religion, and rules of fair competition. A level playing field with responsibilities would raise standards of religious promotion and reduce social tensions. To formulate these standards, I pose the following questions. Which freedom is more important freedom "from" hatred, or freedom "to" hate?
Just as a point of interest, I have spent most of this week which has been the celebration of Divali with a young Hindu woman I used to work with - she is a very gentle and beautiful person who wants only good for mankind............
omurchu22: Well first off i saw how long winded that hread was and my eyes begged for lenancy.my excuse
But what is it in laymans terms .im in the mood for some bashing
In laymans terms, hmmm, the Hindus are a gentle people and they have many Gods so it was quite natural for them to accept the God of Christianity on the same terms that they accept all of their own - so they accept this new god only to find that they have to then renounce all of their old ones - there are dirty tricks being used to convert them too - have a look at a site called evangelism watch, there you will find how the missionaries 'set up' miracles and whats more, they do it using donations from lovely people in richer countries who have no idea how their donations are being used.
I did a video the other day (may be on 2nd page by now) about some of this stuff in Nigeria - there are just too many instances of all this stuff fot it all to be mistaken reporting...................
trish123: Just as a point of interest, I have spent most of this week which has been the celebration of Divali with a young Hindu woman I used to work with - she is a very gentle and beautiful person who wants only good for mankind............
I´ve posted this before, it´s all about what you wrote and said by a late 19th, early 20th century British philosopher of the analytical school (please correct me if I got this wrong or misused any words), Bertrand Russel.
Moema: I´ve posted this before, it´s all about what you wrote and said by a late 19th, early 20th century British philosopher of the analytical school (please correct me if I got this wrong or misused any words), Bertrand Russel.
It´s a speech he once gave and became a chapter of a book called "The Basic Writings of Bertrand Russel", very good, read it if you can.
I did read it the other day and thank you for posting it - It is due to people such as Russell that we are now able to speak out against the perceived injustices of now, of this year 2008, they are still happening. Divali may have been great this year for people in the west but for people in India, there have been killings and murder........... homes have been burned and livelihoods lost - it wasnt so great for those people............
I saw a program about this on BBC a couple months ago. Some Christians were actually being killed (or possibly martyring themselves) for attempting to convert Hindus in smaller villiages. Some people obviously see Christianity as a threat, and are taking matters into their own hands.
An excellent post Trish... but it makes to much sense and to play devils advocate one might say it is also a good sales pitch for Hinduism...
It´s sad to me that "Christian Missionaries" go into countries armed with medical aid and food... but tie it to conversion and religion. I spent a bit of time in Papua New Guinea where they claim to have a 90% Christian population. There are Lutheran ministries, guest houses and missionaries through out the country and while the work they are doing with medical aid is admirable, I find it sad to see so much of their culture taken from the people, and in such a short period of time... just the past 50 years.
These people have no idea of what they are professing to believe in... if you speak with locals you find they still have many of their superstitions... such as not talking to people you don´t know face to face... they could be carrying the soul of a dead person and could pass it mouth to mouth while speaking. When people tell me of these beliefs and then turn around and say that they believe in Jesus and attend church on Sunday... do they even realize what they are doing, do they have the faintest understanding of the Christian religion or do they pay lip service in order to receive the benefits missionaries can offer?
If you are truly Christian.... what good is a convert that doesn`t understand what they have been converted to? However if it is once again a device to control the masses... I guess it doesn´t really matter.
My apologies if this is a bit convoluted.... my brain isn´t at it´s best...
trish123: I did read it the other day and thank you for posting it - It is due to people such as Russell that we are now able to speak out against the perceived injustices of now, of this year 2008, they are still happening. Divali may have been great this year for people in the west but for people in India, there have been killings and murder........... homes have been burned and livelihoods lost - it wasnt so great for those people............
jbibiza: An excellent post Trish... but it makes to much sense and to play devils advocate one might say it is also a good sales pitch for Hinduism...
It´s sad to me that "Christian Missionaries" go into countries armed with medical aid and food... but tie it to conversion and religion. I spent a bit of time in Papua New Guinea where they claim to have a 90% Christian population. There are Lutheran ministries, guest houses and missionaries through out the country and while the work they are doing with medical aid is admirable, I find it sad to see so much of their culture taken from the people, and in such a short period of time... just the past 50 years.
These people have no idea of what they are professing to believe in... if you speak with locals you find they still have many of their superstitions... such as not talking to people you don´t know face to face... they could be carrying the soul of a dead person and could pass it mouth to mouth while speaking. When people tell me of these beliefs and then turn around and say that they believe in Jesus and attend church on Sunday... do they even realize what they are doing, do they have the faintest understanding of the Christian religion or do they pay lip service in order to receive the benefits missionaries can offer?
If you are truly Christian.... what good is a convert that doesn`t understand what they have been converted to? However if it is once again a device to control the masses... I guess it doesn´t really matter.
My apologies if this is a bit convoluted.... my brain isn´t at it´s best...
jbibiza: An excellent post Trish... but it makes to much sense and to play devils advocate one might say it is also a good sales pitch for Hinduism...
It´s sad to me that "Christian Missionaries" go into countries armed with medical aid and food... but tie it to conversion and religion. I spent a bit of time in Papua New Guinea where they claim to have a 90% Christian population. There are Lutheran ministries, guest houses and missionaries through out the country and while the work they are doing with medical aid is admirable, I find it sad to see so much of their culture taken from the people, and in such a short period of time... just the past 50 years.
These people have no idea of what they are professing to believe in... if you speak with locals you find they still have many of their superstitions... such as not talking to people you don´t know face to face... they could be carrying the soul of a dead person and could pass it mouth to mouth while speaking. When people tell me of these beliefs and then turn around and say that they believe in Jesus and attend church on Sunday... do they even realize what they are doing, do they have the faintest understanding of the Christian religion or do they pay lip service in order to receive the benefits missionaries can offer?
If you are truly Christian.... what good is a convert that doesn`t understand what they have been converted to? However if it is once again a device to control the masses... I guess it doesn´t really matter.
My apologies if this is a bit convoluted.... my brain isn´t at it´s best...
Yep, I was aware when posting of the sales pitch for Hinduism, it makes much more sense to have a whole flock of gods than to have one who is supposedly omni everything and for whom we never see any evidence - if I was ever going to believe in gods at all it would have to be in a polytheistic sense......... my personal stance however is more like "When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours." ~ Stephen F. Roberts
This is whats started to happen in the countries where conversion tactics have been concentrated, as you point out, they have started to reject the stuff that the missionaries have been laying on them and realised they were better off before.........
I remember reading similar stuff in Clavell's book Hawaii - strange how its rearing its reality in the now............
Going against proselytizing is not an attack against Christianity, as many Christians do not believe in proselytizing. Throughout its history, proselytizing has been a weapon for imperialism. It has never been friendly to the indigenous, be it in Africa, America, Asia or even Europe itself. Gandhi confirmed: "I consider Western Christianity in its practical working a negation of Christ's Christianity. I cannot conceive Jesus, if he was living in flesh in our midst, approving of modern Christian organizations, public worship or ministry."
I don't think Jesus would recognise himself today either. Western christianity is not what christ was on about. So a few people made a few quid on the side...No harm done. The 'prosely-thingh' you were on about being used as a weapon for imperialism..thats why Britian was once Great.
trish123: While a Hindu may participate in Christian activities or beliefs without violating Hinduism, the reverse is untrue. By joining Christianity under the false expectation that it would not affect his Hindu faith, he gradually begins to get pressured by his newly-adopted Christian faith from keeping his Hindu identity or practices. Eventually, this leads to social and cultural alienation from his roots. Hence, the idea of dual religious affiliation, while fine for a Hindu, is a one-way street, and has become a political ploy for Christians to convert those who wish to retain Hindu practices. For example, in South India, Catholic priests dress up like Hindu swamis, call their organizations ashrams and the preachers "gurus." But they are actively engaged in surreptitious conversion. Their Hindu dress is not to honor Hindu traditions but to make Christianity more familiar. Bharata Natayam dance is being taught in Christian schools in South India, with Christian symbols gradually replacing Hindu ones.
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Do you realise how much money is in religion.. So it aint what christ taught...But they pay their taxes..And making money whats wrong in that.
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Going against proselytizing is not an attack against Christianity, as many Christians do not believe in proselytizing. Throughout its history, proselytizing has been a weapon for imperialism. It has never been friendly to the indigenous, be it in Africa, America, Asia or even Europe itself. Gandhi confirmed: "I consider Western Christianity in its practical working a negation of Christ's Christianity. I cannot conceive Jesus, if he was living in flesh in our midst, approving of modern Christian organizations, public worship or ministry."
Religions are often becoming commercial "brands" competing for market share, selling both God's love and insurance from hell. Islam, Christianity and the dogma of Marxism have unquenchable thirsts for quantitative expansion, simply because they hanker after political power and materialistic objectives. In North India, the Southern Baptists alone have 4,700 workers, 15,000 career missionaries, 50,000 volunteers, 1,000 new college graduates per year with an average two-year length of service. In total, there are estimated to be 100,000 career Christian missionaries in India, a size several times the sales force of the largest Indian corporations.
While a Hindu may participate in Christian activities or beliefs without violating Hinduism, the reverse is untrue. By joining Christianity under the false expectation that it would not affect his Hindu faith, he gradually begins to get pressured by his newly-adopted Christian faith from keeping his Hindu identity or practices. Eventually, this leads to social and cultural alienation from his roots. Hence, the idea of dual religious affiliation, while fine for a Hindu, is a one-way street, and has become a political ploy for Christians to convert those who wish to retain Hindu practices. For example, in South India, Catholic priests dress up like Hindu swamis, call their organizations ashrams and the preachers "gurus." But they are actively engaged in surreptitious conversion. Their Hindu dress is not to honor Hindu traditions but to make Christianity more familiar. Bharata Natayam dance is being taught in Christian schools in South India, with Christian symbols gradually replacing Hindu ones.
Harmony among the religions of the world is unachievable as long as some of them see others as competitors, even in the holy game of soul saving. Mere tolerance is simply external and fails to address internalized prejudice. What is lacking is respect.
contd;