Christianity and 21st century Ireland (39)
Yeats1980: The recent JT and Stan debates have got me thinking...and for me, I come to a conclusion that the majority of Irish people are now hypocrites.
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
None of us are god, he gave us our own free
Will to develop ourselves as close to it as we
Possibly can and yes we are weak and probably
At our weakest right now
The tide always turns though
jt972: None of us are god, he gave us our own free
Will to develop ourselves as close to it as we
Possibly can and yes we are weak and probably
At our weakest right now
The tide always turns though
Will to develop ourselves as close to it as we
Possibly can and yes we are weak and probably
At our weakest right now
The tide always turns though
I think most people have weak free will...However, I don't think much will change...It is convenient for people the way things are at the moment.
I wonder how many people in this country have actually followed their beliefs and completely left the Church...Very few would be my guess.
By the way, this thread is not directed at anyone in particular. I would place myself in the "hypocrite" label too. I've been a severe critic of the Church over the years...but never just left either....
Yeats1980: The recent JT and Stan debates have got me thinking...and for me, I come to a conclusion that the majority of Irish people are now hypocrites.
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
It is an interesting question to which there will be no one answer.
Some people will not be regular mass-goers, but will still identify as Catholics.
Others will use the facilities as they wish - for births, marriages and deaths.
As you have to pay for these services, I guess it could be seen as a business deal if nothing else.
Personally, I will go to these services if somebody is using them. If somebody's funeral is in a church, I will go. If it were elsewhere, I would go too. That is simply a mark of respect to the person.
But I, myself, would not get married in a church, have a child baptised, nor intend to have a church service at my funeral.
Yeats1980: The recent JT and Stan debates have got me thinking...and for me, I come to a conclusion that the majority of Irish people are now hypocrites.
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
Yes I think the same way about this too yeats80 but it takes time for people to change their once held beliefs and trust in the Catholic Church has dwindled big time my generation were taught by nuns as well as teachers and what. I came to believe in later years was we are a nation on a guilt trip and stems front what was instilled in U.S. By nuns and priests .sins was spoken quite a lot .todays generation has a different outlook .spiritual is not the same as religion ,,a persons faith in whatever that higher power may be or not is their own business but yes to get to your point your making most of us still will use the church for celebrations funerals and alike myself included yet I am anon practicing Catholic would I even call myself that now I ask myself ,,it matters not yet I still might drop into the church light a candle nothing wrong with that but that's even dwindling I light a candle at home and say a prayer or call it what you will ,we are creatures of habit and nothing changes completely overnight with me .its all freedom of choice .
mollybaby: It is an interesting question to which there will be no one answer.
Some people will not be regular mass-goers, but will still identify as Catholics.
Others will use the facilities as they wish - for births, marriages and deaths.
As you have to pay for these services, I guess it could be seen as a business deal if nothing else.
Personally, I will go to these services if somebody is using them. If somebody's funeral is in a church, I will go. If it were elsewhere, I would go too. That is simply a mark of respect to the person.
But I, myself, would not get married in a church, have a child baptised, nor intend to have a church service at my funeral.
Some people will not be regular mass-goers, but will still identify as Catholics.
Others will use the facilities as they wish - for births, marriages and deaths.
As you have to pay for these services, I guess it could be seen as a business deal if nothing else.
Personally, I will go to these services if somebody is using them. If somebody's funeral is in a church, I will go. If it were elsewhere, I would go too. That is simply a mark of respect to the person.
But I, myself, would not get married in a church, have a child baptised, nor intend to have a church service at my funeral.
Probably many answers to the question alright..but the major one I would think is weakness of will to really follow convictions.
I would disagree with the point that people should use these services as a mark of respect to someone else. That for me still equates as a cop-out. There are many ways to pay respects to people at these types of events...the Church part is only a small part...
Yeats1980: Probably many answers to the question alright..but the major one I would think is weakness of will to really follow convictions.
I would disagree with the point that people should use these services as a mark of respect to someone else. That for me still equates as a cop-out. There are many ways to pay respects to people at these types of events...the Church part is only a small part...
I would disagree with the point that people should use these services as a mark of respect to someone else. That for me still equates as a cop-out. There are many ways to pay respects to people at these types of events...the Church part is only a small part...
I wouldn't call it a weakness choosing to attend a funeral ,wedding etc I attended a getogether in a pub lounge for celebration yet I don't like pubs ,it wasn't out of weakness .same can be said of the church ,,everyone to their own .
The recent JT and Stan debates have got me thinking...and for me, I come to a conclusion that the majority of Irish people are now hypocrites.
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on top
I think you are quite right, in that very few people have the courage of their convictions, and it suits them/us to take part in celebrations in the church, when it suits.
Personally , there is just my funeral left to sort out, and i am looking into another way of letting family celebrate my exit from this world.
I have in the past used the church for celebrations,, but considered myself to be a good decent living person and didn't have any criticism of the church, so i don't feel like a hypocrite
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on top
I think you are quite right, in that very few people have the courage of their convictions, and it suits them/us to take part in celebrations in the church, when it suits.
Personally , there is just my funeral left to sort out, and i am looking into another way of letting family celebrate my exit from this world.
I have in the past used the church for celebrations,, but considered myself to be a good decent living person and didn't have any criticism of the church, so i don't feel like a hypocrite
Yeats1980: The recent JT and Stan debates have got me thinking...and for me, I come to a conclusion that the majority of Irish people are now hypocrites.
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
Your question was ,, "why do people go back to the church, for celebrations"
I really think that people don't even think about it ,
they just do it, because it is the way that it has always been done.
Yeats1980: The recent JT and Stan debates have got me thinking...and for me, I come to a conclusion that the majority of Irish people are now hypocrites.
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
We use the church and it's ceremonies to celebrate les rites de passage, because the church is the accepted mechanism in Irish society, where significant changes in an individuals societal status are recognised by the greater community. These rites of passage are part of our cultural identity.
It isn't hypocritical to use church facilities, the church is a business, and if we choose to use them for marriage, funeral etc, we get the pomp and ceremony, and they benefit financially.
Yeats1980: The recent JT and Stan debates have got me thinking...and for me, I come to a conclusion that the majority of Irish people are now hypocrites.
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)
I'm not Irish and I find that a lot of people I know here show "a good looking front"", but don't look behind it. There is a lot of "status" and how "someone has to behave". I have experienced that living a different lifestyle is not taken kindly from those that do (and some of these "traditional couples" hate each others guts at this stage).
I do see myself as Christian (don't care about the catholic or protestant thing) but come from a background where living values is more important than going to church.
I don't plan on getting married at this stage in my life, but I don't have problems with accepting other people's choices and attend church services. I have heard of funerals not taking place in church (and lots of weddings are done in a registry office, at least in other countries). I do agree though that only entering a church "to get the right photos" is hypocritical - but as long as a priest is willing to do a service, how hypocritical is that?
Yeats1980: Probably many answers to the question alright..but the major one I would think is weakness of will to really follow convictions.
I would disagree with the point that people should use these services as a mark of respect to someone else. That for me still equates as a cop-out. There are many ways to pay respects to people at these types of events...the Church part is only a small part...
I would disagree with the point that people should use these services as a mark of respect to someone else. That for me still equates as a cop-out. There are many ways to pay respects to people at these types of events...the Church part is only a small part...
If a friend of yours dies, and has chosen to go the religious route for their funeral services, it is not a cop-out to go to pay your respects!
if they were Jewish or Muslim or Humanist, I would also go to their service.
My own personal ideals should not be used as a mark of disrespect.
Yeats1980: Probably many answers to the question alright..but the major one I would think is weakness of will to really follow convictions.
I would disagree with the point that people should use these services as a mark of respect to someone else. That for me still equates as a cop-out. There are many ways to pay respects to people at these types of events...the Church part is only a small part...
I would disagree with the point that people should use these services as a mark of respect to someone else. That for me still equates as a cop-out. There are many ways to pay respects to people at these types of events...the Church part is only a small part...
Certainly is a cop out, it's funny to see how many
People so adamantly against Christianity that
Never bother to change their religion officially
As in use the official channel to divorce themselves
From the church
Instead these people that laugh at Christianity
And compare it to the tooth fairy and hold on
To it as an insurance card, just in case
Quite humorous really, and you can be sure
Most will accept a priest at their death bed
There was s mention here of the church being
A profit making organisation well I was at a
Christening last week, with flowers and whatever
Else the whole occasion must of cost 200 euro
Minimum to the church the miserable mother
Of the child donated 20 euro, not exactly profitable
But very charitable of the church as usual
Any "profit" they doe makes goes into good
Causes like the crisis pregnancy council king
Service, the capuchins do great work for the
Dregs of Dublin as some people like to refer to
Them as
mollybaby: If a friend of yours dies, and has chosen to go the religious route for their funeral services, it is not a cop-out to go to pay your respects!
if they were Jewish or Muslim or Humanist, I would also go to their service.
My own personal ideals should not be used as a mark of disrespect.
if they were Jewish or Muslim or Humanist, I would also go to their service.
My own personal ideals should not be used as a mark of disrespect.
Pay your respect in the funeral hall...
mollybaby: If a friend of yours dies, and has chosen to go the religious route for their funeral services, it is not a cop-out to go to pay your respects!
if they were Jewish or Muslim or Humanist, I would also go to their service.
My own personal ideals should not be used as a mark of disrespect.
if they were Jewish or Muslim or Humanist, I would also go to their service.
My own personal ideals should not be used as a mark of disrespect.
I agree Molly, the physical structure of the chapel/Mosque/House of worship is merely the residential theater where the ceremony is performed.
The priest, pastor etc is only a presenter of the ceremony.
One is showing respect and association for the person who has died, is getting christened, married etc, the location and presenter are of no great significance or importance to the event.
Instead of a priest splashing holy water about, it could be a McDonald's restaurant, with a Ronald character handing out chicken nuggets, if that was the persons wishes.
I know if I was so against an institution I'd
Never set foot inside it's gates
No, it's out and out hypocrisy and also following
Procedure as a get out of jail card
Have all here who speak out against our
Mighty church officially got rid of their
Catholic faith??
If not why not
Never set foot inside it's gates
No, it's out and out hypocrisy and also following
Procedure as a get out of jail card
Have all here who speak out against our
Mighty church officially got rid of their
Catholic faith??
If not why not
jt972: Pay your respect in the funeral hall...
Look after your own beautiful soul, and I'll look after mine
mollybaby: Look after your own beautiful soul, and I'll look after mine
You're not doing a very good job, I never
Mentioned your soul there I asked a simple
Question that you predictably avoided
What is a soul anyway now that you just
Recognised you have one ?
jt972: You're not doing a very good job, I never
Mentioned your soul there I asked a simple
Question that you predictably avoided
What is a soul anyway now that you just
Recognised you have one ?
Mentioned your soul there I asked a simple
Question that you predictably avoided
What is a soul anyway now that you just
Recognised you have one ?
You didn't ask me a question, you made a statement:
" Pay your respect in the funeral hall..."
A soul is what you believe you are, apart from your physical body
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When I think of the Church and its relationship with Irish people, I can sense quite a bit of anger...I think that's fine. Most of the population at some stage has ridiculed the Church organisation in Ireland. Many despise it. Again that's fine...
My question concerns the issue as to why these people continue to go back to the Church for celebrations such as christenings, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, etc. They will decide to get married in churches and have their funerals in the church...yet they criticise the church at every other stage of their lives...
I considered that it was just that these celebrations(Church) were a part of culture and would be difficult to change..But I don't think that is the reason. I think the reason is that people are inherently weak...
Why do the members of CS feel about this? (Try to stay civilised and on topic)