What REEEEALLY Pees You Off About Wimmin... (341)
jac379: May I comment on the non-problem solving bit?
I think we do problem solve, but maybe in different ways.
Sometimes, I whinge to every person that will listen until someone, or some people strike a chord(s) and then I will evolve either the way I feel about something, and/or change my behaviour about something. I effect, I will collect opinions, analysese and solutions and then evaluate the which is the best way forward for me and mine.
Sometimes, I will talk to one person and all this happens.
Sometimes, I just hit on a solution to a problem straight away in a Martian manner, as you have cited.
Different problems may require different techniques to come to a solution. Martian solutions don't always take into account the complexity of a problem, the ramifications for others (especially dependants), or Venus finding cognitive/emotional peace with a human difficulty.
I think we do problem solve, but maybe in different ways.
Sometimes, I whinge to every person that will listen until someone, or some people strike a chord(s) and then I will evolve either the way I feel about something, and/or change my behaviour about something. I effect, I will collect opinions, analysese and solutions and then evaluate the which is the best way forward for me and mine.
Sometimes, I will talk to one person and all this happens.
Sometimes, I just hit on a solution to a problem straight away in a Martian manner, as you have cited.
Different problems may require different techniques to come to a solution. Martian solutions don't always take into account the complexity of a problem, the ramifications for others (especially dependants), or Venus finding cognitive/emotional peace with a human difficulty.
I've chosen Jac, Leigh, Vinny, Ambrose, Sunshinboy, RDM and StressFree to have problem solving discussions with. I chose each one for their own specialty. Sometimes my feathers were comforted and sometimes I needed a tar and feathering but I didn't expect anyone in particular to fix my problems. And sometimes the problem didn't get "fixed". Sometimes I just needed to vent or talk to someone. Not everything in life is black and white..
jac379: PS. @ Ambrose...
Maybe as well, rather than going off into our caves like Martians to solve problems quietly, Venetians tend to say it all out loud to be able to see the wood for the trees. like I've just done here.
I find solutions offered half way through presenting the evidence ineffective, as they don't take into account the whole issue.
When Venetians talk, maybe they offer solutions to promote discussion, but Martians offer solutions to end the discussion?
Maybe as well, rather than going off into our caves like Martians to solve problems quietly, Venetians tend to say it all out loud to be able to see the wood for the trees. like I've just done here.
I find solutions offered half way through presenting the evidence ineffective, as they don't take into account the whole issue.
When Venetians talk, maybe they offer solutions to promote discussion, but Martians offer solutions to end the discussion?
Well-thought, I think, Jac. Some dudes definitely just want a simple resolution to a complex problem - particularly in relationships - in essence looking for a "faux" soution. That often happens, I suspect, because guys in general aren't comfortable discussing messy stuff like emotions/relationships. They'd be much more comfortable discussing a basic engineering problem like fixing a car engine or a stuck door, and would prefer such simple, nuts-and-bolts solutions to emotions and such.
(If you had a complaint list about men, surely the unwillingness to deal with emotional topics would be near the top!)
The part about ending discussion by proposing a solution (especially a simplistic one) is right-on when it comes to men and relationships. You make a complaint like "Well, you're not spending enough time with me!", and he responds: "Okay, why don't you watch a basketball game with me this Sunday?"
There you have a simple solution that doesn't address the issue and thus isn't truly a solution.
Not sure what you mean by "I find solutions offered half way through presenting the evidence ineffective, as they don't take into account the whole issue," though I found it rather provocative in its suggested meanings... Could you amplify?
montecito: I've chosen Jac, Leigh, Vinny, Ambrose, Sunshinboy, RDM and StressFree to have problem solving discussions with. I chose each one for their own specialty. Sometimes my feathers were comforted and sometimes I needed a tar and feathering but I didn't expect anyone in particular to fix my problems. And sometimes the problem didn't get "fixed". Sometimes I just needed to vent or talk to someone. Not everything in life is black and white..
Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel about wimmen Bannerman.....
Here's one for you too....
Here's one for you too....Ambrose2007: You know, "Men are from Mars, Women from Venus" is one book I've never read, despite usually ingesting that kind of pop-psychology. Does it remark on this subject?
Part of the "solution-oriented" business might be that women find different things worthy of solutions, as well as having different techniques (along the lines you suggested; not sure if you're saying that's your individual style and not necessarily true of women in general?).
For example, I think women are more "solution-oriented" than men in general as regards relationships. They're usually the partner looking to solve issues, whereas the guys usually just grunt and turn up the volume of their sports show.
You agree with the mind-reading part?
Part of the "solution-oriented" business might be that women find different things worthy of solutions, as well as having different techniques (along the lines you suggested; not sure if you're saying that's your individual style and not necessarily true of women in general?).
For example, I think women are more "solution-oriented" than men in general as regards relationships. They're usually the partner looking to solve issues, whereas the guys usually just grunt and turn up the volume of their sports show.
You agree with the mind-reading part?
I can't remember if I actually managed to read all of Men are from Mars, etc. I think I got bored with it after the initial bit about problem solving, which seemed a small thing to base an entire book on, but a useful observation all the same.
Yes, I was talking about myself personally, but I do think there's some truth in the differences in gender problem solving. I also think you're right in suggesting that maybe women see different things worthy of solution - as a massive generalisation, I think men may resolve the problem, as women may resolve why there is a problem in the first place and by changing that, try to ensure that the problem doesn't arise again. Also, as women traditionally are primary carers, they have more psyches to take into consideration, maybe.
As for mind reading, yes your right and no, your wrong.
Perhaps, if a woman starts on her ramble presenting all the evidence and part way through a man offers a solution to end the discussion, the woman feels frustrated that the solution is not effective and tries again, using the solution to promote further discussion.
The man may feel there's no point in further discussion because the solution has been found and gets frustrated that the woman just doesn't get on with the brilliant solution he offered.
Go through that process enough times and a woman will stop communicating because its not working. She then has to hold on to her frustration, simmering away, thwarted.
The bloke then thinks he's expected to mind read, when actually she's been trying to tell him what the problem is, but he continually interupts with solutions and premature closure of the discussion.
See? I've just rambled and thought out loud again.
The beauty of the internet is that I get this far without you interupting me and you have to read everything before you come up with your solution. montecito: I've chosen Jac, Leigh, Vinny, Ambrose, Sunshinboy, RDM and StressFree to have problem solving discussions with. I chose each one for their own specialty. Sometimes my feathers were comforted and sometimes I needed a tar and feathering but I didn't expect anyone in particular to fix my problems. And sometimes the problem didn't get "fixed". Sometimes I just needed to vent or talk to someone. Not everything in life is black and white..
Exactly.
You solve your own problems, as you are perfectly capable of doing, but different people can help promote that process.
We don't need someone taking control of the problem for us, we need to find a healthy, effective way of taking control of the problem ourselves.
jac379: I can't remember if I actually managed to read all of Men are from Mars, etc. I think I got bored with it after the initial bit about problem solving, which seemed a small thing to base an entire book on, but a useful observation all the same.
Yes, I was talking about myself personally, but I do think there's some truth in the differences in gender problem solving. I also think you're right in suggesting that maybe women see different things worthy of solution - as a massive generalisation, I think men may resolve the problem, as women may resolve why there is a problem in the first place and by changing that, try to ensure that the problem doesn't arise again. Also, as women traditionally are primary carers, they have more psyches to take into consideration, maybe.
As for mind reading, yes your right and no, your wrong.
Perhaps, if a woman starts on her ramble presenting all the evidence and part way through a man offers a solution to end the discussion, the woman feels frustrated that the solution is not effective and tries again, using the solution to promote further discussion.
The man may feel there's no point in further discussion because the solution has been found and gets frustrated that the woman just doesn't get on with the brilliant solution he offered.
Go through that process enough times and a woman will stop communicating because its not working. She then has to hold on to her frustration, simmering away, thwarted.
The bloke then thinks he's expected to mind read, when actually she's been trying to tell him what the problem is, but he continually interupts with solutions and premature closure of the discussion.
See? I've just rambled and thought out loud again. The beauty of the internet is that I get this far without you interupting me and you have to read everything before you come up with your solution.
Yes, I was talking about myself personally, but I do think there's some truth in the differences in gender problem solving. I also think you're right in suggesting that maybe women see different things worthy of solution - as a massive generalisation, I think men may resolve the problem, as women may resolve why there is a problem in the first place and by changing that, try to ensure that the problem doesn't arise again. Also, as women traditionally are primary carers, they have more psyches to take into consideration, maybe.
As for mind reading, yes your right and no, your wrong.
Perhaps, if a woman starts on her ramble presenting all the evidence and part way through a man offers a solution to end the discussion, the woman feels frustrated that the solution is not effective and tries again, using the solution to promote further discussion.
The man may feel there's no point in further discussion because the solution has been found and gets frustrated that the woman just doesn't get on with the brilliant solution he offered.
Go through that process enough times and a woman will stop communicating because its not working. She then has to hold on to her frustration, simmering away, thwarted.
The bloke then thinks he's expected to mind read, when actually she's been trying to tell him what the problem is, but he continually interupts with solutions and premature closure of the discussion.
See? I've just rambled and thought out loud again. The beauty of the internet is that I get this far without you interupting me and you have to read everything before you come up with your solution.
That was terribly cruel of you, Jac!
I think girly lesbi-friends are great and there should be more of them...(jmo)
jac: i just wanted to say thank you for presenting this so well. my thoughts are in agreement with you, but you have said it much more eloquently than i think i could of.
and of course...my favourite part..is usually dessert..(grin)
"See? I've just rambled and thought out loud again. The beauty of the internet is that I get this far without you interupting me and you have to read everything before you come up with your solution."
thank you jac from jono
and of course, hello ambrose
and of course...my favourite part..is usually dessert..(grin)
"See? I've just rambled and thought out loud again. The beauty of the internet is that I get this far without you interupting me and you have to read everything before you come up with your solution."
thank you jac from jono
and of course, hello ambrose
time4fun4u: I would have hoped the ladies on here would have known i was joking.HOwever,i apologise for such a remark.
Guess I am too thick for this thread......I'll just mosey along...
Great posts on here from all; many thanks.
I have to log off now, but thank you again for your contributions.
Will check in later.
I have to log off now, but thank you again for your contributions.
Will check in later.
Bodecia: Wimmin think men are mind readers because they discuss, discuss, discuss, analyse, analyse and mull over and over with their fellow Venetians. They feel validated by doing this, and assume that the Martians will hear them and understand. Not attempt to fix, but understand.
Rarely happens, of course!
Rarely happens, of course!
I WANT WORLD PEACE...
time4fun4u: That is a good point,men cannot read a womans mind.Lets be fair,who can read a blank piece of paper?
May I rephrase this slightly T .....
What is the point of trying to understand women when they keep changing their minds anyway.....
montecito: I WANT WORLD PEACE...
....ALRIGHT..ALRIGHT.....put the banner down .and go and make the coffee ...woman.... Bodecia: I see many threads and posts regarding the traits in men that women dislike, avoid in dating/relating and make them shy to commit again to another man.
I would like to hear from the men, as to what really ticks you off about wimmin, what common traits you have all discovered on your weary dating road, past experiences that have made you gun-shy. What do you really dislike in a woman?
Do you think guys, that wimmin from certain countries are more likely to display certain traits? Do you think that the culture they have grown up in moulds their undesirable characteristics as well as their attributes?
Or do you think they are the same the world over??
Please be truthful, do not be afraid of knives in back, or strychnine in your morning coffee, for I will protect you!
I would like to hear from the men, as to what really ticks you off about wimmin, what common traits you have all discovered on your weary dating road, past experiences that have made you gun-shy. What do you really dislike in a woman?
Do you think guys, that wimmin from certain countries are more likely to display certain traits? Do you think that the culture they have grown up in moulds their undesirable characteristics as well as their attributes?
Or do you think they are the same the world over??
Please be truthful, do not be afraid of knives in back, or strychnine in your morning coffee, for I will protect you!
Drama Queens
Ambrose2007: Well-thought, I think, Jac. Some dudes definitely just want a simple resolution to a complex problem - particularly in relationships - in essence looking for a "faux" soution. That often happens, I suspect, because guys in general aren't comfortable discussing messy stuff like emotions/relationships. They'd be much more comfortable discussing a basic engineering problem like fixing a car engine or a stuck door, and would prefer such simple, nuts-and-bolts solutions to emotions and such.
(If you had a complaint list about men, surely the unwillingness to deal with emotional topics would be near the top!)
The part about ending discussion by proposing a solution (especially a simplistic one) is right-on when it comes to men and relationships. You make a complaint like "Well, you're not spending enough time with me!", and he responds: "Okay, why don't you watch a basketball game with me this Sunday?"
There you have a simple solution that doesn't address the issue and thus isn't truly a solution.
Not sure what you mean by "I find solutions offered half way through presenting the evidence ineffective, as they don't take into account the whole issue," though I found it rather provocative in its suggested meanings... Could you amplify?
(If you had a complaint list about men, surely the unwillingness to deal with emotional topics would be near the top!)
The part about ending discussion by proposing a solution (especially a simplistic one) is right-on when it comes to men and relationships. You make a complaint like "Well, you're not spending enough time with me!", and he responds: "Okay, why don't you watch a basketball game with me this Sunday?"
There you have a simple solution that doesn't address the issue and thus isn't truly a solution.
Not sure what you mean by "I find solutions offered half way through presenting the evidence ineffective, as they don't take into account the whole issue," though I found it rather provocative in its suggested meanings... Could you amplify?
Ok, let me give you an example.
My sister is a successful business woman, who also owns a number of properties that she lets out. Part of her sucess, I believe, is that she's solution oriented and thinks like a Martian. I, however, am a snot-nosed single mum who scrapes a living together, my priority being my daughter and now, my granddaughter.
Some years ago, I was having problems with my daughter's father regarding access and his care of her that was really very serious.
One of my possible solutions was that I move away to inhibit the risky access and I asked her if she might have a property I could rent from her, if the need arose.
My sister regarded this as the solution, whilst for me it was more of a last resort and a safety net. She very generously put this solution into effect without me knowing, going to the lengths of actually buying a house for me to rent.
I however, had a number of other avenues that I was legally and morally obliged to follow first. I felt I had to give my daughter's father one final (out of many) chance to sort himself out, I felt it wasn't morally, or legally my choice to seperate father and child and I thought my daughter needed to go through the process of the break down of her relationship with her father and not be uprooted from her friends and life here with no choice.
As you can imagine, my sister felt rather put out that I didn't accept her solution. I felt rather put out that she expected to take control, not just of my life, but that she thought she could make decisions for my daughter's life without taking into account the impact that it may have on her.
As for complaining about men, its not so much a complaint, but a problem that maybe needs to be resolved.
Also, is it an unwillingness on men's part to deal with emotional issues, or simply that they have been historically indoctrinated with the expectation that it's not the done thing and therefore haven't learned the skills?I'm not sure that men and women are really that far apart when it comes to problem solving. Maybe there just needs to be a bit more overlap to coincide with the way our roles are also overlapping in order to attain gender equality for men and women.
trueheart1941: ....ALRIGHT..ALRIGHT.....put the banner down .and go and make the coffee ...woman....
Coming right up sir....
May I join you... If you can wait a minute, I'll whip up a coffee cake...
Ambrose2007: That was terribly cruel of you, Jac!
Well, it did cross my mind that perhaps couples should email each other in order to resolve relationship issues.
time4fun4u: That is a good point,men cannot read a womans mind.Lets be fair,who can read a blank piece of paper?
It's invisible ink, stupid.
jac379: Well, it did cross my mind that perhaps couples should email each other in order to resolve relationship issues.
That's just plain cruel to say that to him Jac...
montecito: Coming right up sir.... May I join you...
If you can wait a minute, I'll whip up a coffee cake...
make it quick then i intend to rest for a while....If you can wait a minute, I'll whip up a coffee cake...
time4fun4u: That is a good point,men cannot read a womans mind.Lets be fair,who can read a blank piece of paper?
jono7: jac: i just wanted to say thank you for presenting this so well. my thoughts are in agreement with you, but you have said it much more eloquently than i think i could of.
and of course...my favourite part..is usually dessert..(grin)
"See? I've just rambled and thought out loud again. The beauty of the internet is that I get this far without you interupting me and you have to read everything before you come up with your solution."
thank you jac from jono
and of course, hello ambrose
and of course...my favourite part..is usually dessert..(grin)
"See? I've just rambled and thought out loud again. The beauty of the internet is that I get this far without you interupting me and you have to read everything before you come up with your solution."
thank you jac from jono
and of course, hello ambrose
Thank you for your feedback, jono.
Its very much appreciated.
RDM59: May I rephrase this slightly T .....
What is the point of trying to understand women when they keep changing their minds anyway.....
What is the point of trying to understand women when they keep changing their minds anyway.....
Ok, so we use Tippex, too.
jac379: Ok, let me give you an example.
My sister is a successful business woman, who also owns a number of properties that she lets out. Part of her sucess, I believe, is that she's solution oriented and thinks like a Martian. I, however, am a snot-nosed single mum who scrapes a living together, my priority being my daughter and now, my granddaughter.
Some years ago, I was having problems with my daughter's father regarding access and his care of her that was really very serious.
One of my possible solutions was that I move away to inhibit the risky access and I asked her if she might have a property I could rent from her, if the need arose.
My sister regarded this as the solution, whilst for me it was more of a last resort and a safety net. She very generously put this solution into effect without me knowing, going to the lengths of actually buying a house for me to rent.
I however, had a number of other avenues that I was legally and morally obliged to follow first. I felt I had to give my daughter's father one final (out of many) chance to sort himself out, I felt it wasn't morally, or legally my choice to seperate father and child and I thought my daughter needed to go through the process of the break down of her relationship with her father and not be uprooted from her friends and life here with no choice.
As you can imagine, my sister felt rather put out that I didn't accept her solution. I felt rather put out that she expected to take control, not just of my life, but that she thought she could make decisions for my daughter's life without taking into account the impact that it may have on her.
As for complaining about men, its not so much a complaint, but a problem that maybe needs to be resolved. Also, is it an unwillingness on men's part to deal with emotional issues, or simply that they have been historically indoctrinated with the expectation that it's not the done thing and therefore haven't learned the skills?
I'm not sure that men and women are really that far apart when it comes to problem solving. Maybe there just needs to be a bit more overlap to coincide with the way our roles are also overlapping in order to attain gender equality for men and women.
My sister is a successful business woman, who also owns a number of properties that she lets out. Part of her sucess, I believe, is that she's solution oriented and thinks like a Martian. I, however, am a snot-nosed single mum who scrapes a living together, my priority being my daughter and now, my granddaughter.
Some years ago, I was having problems with my daughter's father regarding access and his care of her that was really very serious.
One of my possible solutions was that I move away to inhibit the risky access and I asked her if she might have a property I could rent from her, if the need arose.
My sister regarded this as the solution, whilst for me it was more of a last resort and a safety net. She very generously put this solution into effect without me knowing, going to the lengths of actually buying a house for me to rent.
I however, had a number of other avenues that I was legally and morally obliged to follow first. I felt I had to give my daughter's father one final (out of many) chance to sort himself out, I felt it wasn't morally, or legally my choice to seperate father and child and I thought my daughter needed to go through the process of the break down of her relationship with her father and not be uprooted from her friends and life here with no choice.
As you can imagine, my sister felt rather put out that I didn't accept her solution. I felt rather put out that she expected to take control, not just of my life, but that she thought she could make decisions for my daughter's life without taking into account the impact that it may have on her.
As for complaining about men, its not so much a complaint, but a problem that maybe needs to be resolved. Also, is it an unwillingness on men's part to deal with emotional issues, or simply that they have been historically indoctrinated with the expectation that it's not the done thing and therefore haven't learned the skills?
I'm not sure that men and women are really that far apart when it comes to problem solving. Maybe there just needs to be a bit more overlap to coincide with the way our roles are also overlapping in order to attain gender equality for men and women.
Hi Jac, I restrained myself (at great expense to my moral fibre) from answering your first sentance on the thread with a jokular response of "could we stop you?"
but really the above post just shows that this, like most similar situations between men and women, men and men and women and women arise because a lack of adequate communication, I think we could all learn a lot from one of rohaans posts on the subject.
montecito: That's just plain cruel to say that to him Jac...
I'm inclined to drift off mid-sentence as more ideas come to mind and I stutter, so I'm loving the idea of written communication as a means of relationship problem solving.
It's a perfect Martian solution.
jac379: Ok, let me give you an example.
My sister is a successful business woman, who also owns a number of properties that she lets out. Part of her sucess, I believe, is that she's solution oriented and thinks like a Martian. I, however, am a snot-nosed single mum who scrapes a living together, my priority being my daughter and now, my granddaughter.
Some years ago, I was having problems with my daughter's father regarding access and his care of her that was really very serious.
One of my possible solutions was that I move away to inhibit the risky access and I asked her if she might have a property I could rent from her, if the need arose.
My sister regarded this as the solution, whilst for me it was more of a last resort and a safety net. She very generously put this solution into effect without me knowing, going to the lengths of actually buying a house for me to rent.
I however, had a number of other avenues that I was legally and morally obliged to follow first. I felt I had to give my daughter's father one final (out of many) chance to sort himself out, I felt it wasn't morally, or legally my choice to seperate father and child and I thought my daughter needed to go through the process of the break down of her relationship with her father and not be uprooted from her friends and life here with no choice.
As you can imagine, my sister felt rather put out that I didn't accept her solution. I felt rather put out that she expected to take control, not just of my life, but that she thought she could make decisions for my daughter's life without taking into account the impact that it may have on her.
As for complaining about men, its not so much a complaint, but a problem that maybe needs to be resolved. Also, is it an unwillingness on men's part to deal with emotional issues, or simply that they have been historically indoctrinated with the expectation that it's not the done thing and therefore haven't learned the skills?
I'm not sure that men and women are really that far apart when it comes to problem solving. Maybe there just needs to be a bit more overlap to coincide with the way our roles are also overlapping in order to attain gender equality for men and women.
My sister is a successful business woman, who also owns a number of properties that she lets out. Part of her sucess, I believe, is that she's solution oriented and thinks like a Martian. I, however, am a snot-nosed single mum who scrapes a living together, my priority being my daughter and now, my granddaughter.
Some years ago, I was having problems with my daughter's father regarding access and his care of her that was really very serious.
One of my possible solutions was that I move away to inhibit the risky access and I asked her if she might have a property I could rent from her, if the need arose.
My sister regarded this as the solution, whilst for me it was more of a last resort and a safety net. She very generously put this solution into effect without me knowing, going to the lengths of actually buying a house for me to rent.
I however, had a number of other avenues that I was legally and morally obliged to follow first. I felt I had to give my daughter's father one final (out of many) chance to sort himself out, I felt it wasn't morally, or legally my choice to seperate father and child and I thought my daughter needed to go through the process of the break down of her relationship with her father and not be uprooted from her friends and life here with no choice.
As you can imagine, my sister felt rather put out that I didn't accept her solution. I felt rather put out that she expected to take control, not just of my life, but that she thought she could make decisions for my daughter's life without taking into account the impact that it may have on her.
As for complaining about men, its not so much a complaint, but a problem that maybe needs to be resolved. Also, is it an unwillingness on men's part to deal with emotional issues, or simply that they have been historically indoctrinated with the expectation that it's not the done thing and therefore haven't learned the skills?
I'm not sure that men and women are really that far apart when it comes to problem solving. Maybe there just needs to be a bit more overlap to coincide with the way our roles are also overlapping in order to attain gender equality for men and women.
What I've learned through life about men Jac is that the good ones, are really good and worth going through the ups and downs with.
The other thing I've learned is that men don't want to talk. They want to hear what the problem is and then give them time to figure out in their own minds how to fix it. If they have a question about it, they will ask, but they don't want to talk about it.
The last thing a man wants to hear is "we have to talk". She might only want to talk about a leak in the roof but when a man hears that, he thinks it's going to be about something serious and men don't like to talk about problems for two or three hours the way women do.
Men are just as complicated as women and I think that relationships would go smoother if we didn't try to change each other.
jac379: Maybe women are better "mind readers". Traditionally as primary carers we anticipate the growth and changes in our children, so maybe we are better at reading body language and gauging change and I'd say from my experience, in effect, communicating "telepathically" with our children.
We can come a cropper here, too. We associate a change in mood of a child with a need to do something before all hell breaks loose, so an increasingly grumpy child will need, food, sleep, or help to resolve their frustrations/problems. We then maybe try to do this with men when they need to be left alone in their caves to problem solve on their own (and maybe take it personally if our problem solving/solutions are rejected).
Being the primary carer also may impinge on the "garbage" issue that you raised. As a mother, I have always had a rhythm, an invisible structure to the way that I fit everything in that needs to be done. Maybe women want men to fit into into that rhythm and know when to do things by telepathy, but men, not being au fait with telepathic communication wait to be told, so they don't mess up the rhythm. It's maybe men's way of being thoughtful, or helpful, but is not recognised as such, especially if tardiness disrupts the rhythm anyway.
We can come a cropper here, too. We associate a change in mood of a child with a need to do something before all hell breaks loose, so an increasingly grumpy child will need, food, sleep, or help to resolve their frustrations/problems. We then maybe try to do this with men when they need to be left alone in their caves to problem solve on their own (and maybe take it personally if our problem solving/solutions are rejected).
Being the primary carer also may impinge on the "garbage" issue that you raised. As a mother, I have always had a rhythm, an invisible structure to the way that I fit everything in that needs to be done. Maybe women want men to fit into into that rhythm and know when to do things by telepathy, but men, not being au fait with telepathic communication wait to be told, so they don't mess up the rhythm. It's maybe men's way of being thoughtful, or helpful, but is not recognised as such, especially if tardiness disrupts the rhythm anyway.
Are we talking about the rhythem method Jac. I thought that was out of date.........
I understand what you're saying but can't say men worry about upsetting the rhythm of everyday living. What man wouldn't want to know that when he comes home from work, the chores are done, food is on the table and everything is okey dokey. That's the dream.
Men from the 50's, especially my father, would never think of taking the trash out, drying dishes, helping with laundry. His idea was to cut the grass, paint the house, weed the vegetable garden, take care of the chickens. All manly things.
In the 60's my husband wouldn't do it either even when he was sober. It was his state of mind that his job was to go to work and provide and mine was to take care of the house and our child. I wouldn't even think to ask him to do anything for fear of being yelled at.
Now that I've gotten older it's so much easier to understand men because I don't challenge them. We are different species who have different ideas of the way things should be done and it will work if we respect each other. He's not always right nor is she. It's just the way it is.
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I think we do problem solve, but maybe in different ways.
Sometimes, I whinge to every person that will listen until someone, or some people strike a chord(s) and then I will evolve either the way I feel about something, and/or change my behaviour about something. I effect, I will collect opinions, analysese and solutions and then evaluate the which is the best way forward for me and mine.
Sometimes, I will talk to one person and all this happens.
Sometimes, I just hit on a solution to a problem straight away in a Martian manner, as you have cited.
Different problems may require different techniques to come to a solution. Martian solutions don't always take into account the complexity of a problem, the ramifications for others (especially dependants), or Venus finding cognitive/emotional peace with a human difficulty.
You know, "Men are from Mars, Women from Venus" is one book I've never read, despite usually ingesting that kind of pop-psychology. Does it remark on this subject?
Part of the "solution-oriented" business might be that women find different things worthy of solutions, as well as having different techniques (along the lines you suggested; not sure if you're saying that's your individual style and not necessarily true of women in general?).
For example, I think women are more "solution-oriented" than men in general as regards relationships. They're usually the partner looking to solve issues, whereas the guys usually just grunt and turn up the volume of their sports show.
You agree with the mind-reading part?