Should Irish unemployed be made to do community work etc for their benefits? (83)
uptall: That was over my head vinny..but I'm sure you're doin your best with it
That must've been while you were seated eh uptall?Looking4Quality: I have only been unemployed once and I hated it I eventually started doing voluntary work and I much prefered it. I think getting out and helping in the community for social welfare would be great for everyone.
Eh the Irish unemployed? The Irish and not the non-nationals? WTF.
70Libra: That must've been while you were seated eh uptall?
Well that could be it Libra!
Why is it that the only person that understands me is my Ma
vinny1967: Why is it that the only person that understands me is my Ma
vinny1967: Why is it that the only person that understands me is my Ma
cos she's yor ma!
Sunnydaze14: cos she's yor ma!
AND she is all knowing
vinny1967: AND she is all knowing
Don't they all.....One look, you know they one and you are jelly
vinny1967: Why would you see it as punishment ?
I don't see it as punishment. Certainly there would be a lot of factors to consider and overcome but I see it as being doable and it could lead to a lot of good in people's communities.
It may also give long term unemployed some self respect
If I purchased auto insurance and through no fault of my own was without a car, and the insurance company said, "We know you paid your insurance, and we will provide you with the car your insurance paid for, but we will deliver it in 4,000 pieces and you must build your replacement car yourself", would that be an appropriate way to cover someone who paid his insurance? Just asking....I don't see it as punishment. Certainly there would be a lot of factors to consider and overcome but I see it as being doable and it could lead to a lot of good in people's communities.
It may also give long term unemployed some self respect
rohaan: If I purchased auto insurance and through no fault of my own was without a car, and the insurance company said, "We know you paid your insurance, and we will provide you with the car your insurance paid for, but we will deliver it in 4,000 pieces and you must build your replacement car yourself", would that be an appropriate way to cover someone who paid his insurance? Just asking....
You have lost me with that analogy Rohaan I see nothing wrong with a scheme that runs like this.
Person A. I have no job, can I have Social Security please while I am looking for a job.
Gov. Sure we will give you X and for that we need 2 days of your week to work in your community. Contact Y and they will allocate a role best suited to your abilities. The other 3 days you can still look for a job.
People can get some motivation and self respect when they contribute and this way people are getting nothing for nothing. There are tonnes of social clubs, sports clubs, charity organisations, neighbourhood watch, tidy towns/villages that are always crying out for volunteers that would not put any other job at risk, yet would be helping the young, the old, the poor and generally cleaning up their own neighbourhood. I don;t think it's a lot to ask Rohaan.
vinny1967: You have lost me with that analogy Rohaan
I see nothing wrong with a scheme that runs like this.
Person A. I have no job, can I have Social Security please while I am looking for a job.
Gov. Sure we will give you X and for that we need 2 days of your week to work in your community. Contact Y and they will allocate a role best suited to your abilities. The other 3 days you can still look for a job.
People can get some motivation and self respect when they contribute and this way people are getting nothing for nothing. There are tonnes of social clubs, sports clubs, charity organisations, neighbourhood watch, tidy towns/villages that are always crying out for volunteers that would not put any other job at risk, yet would be helping the young, the old, the poor and generally cleaning up their own neighbourhood. I don;t think it's a lot to ask Rohaan.
I don't see how difficult it is to not understand the analogy. Unemployment insurance is a product that is purchased like any other insurance. Here in the U.S. it is deducted from one's salary. That means I pay for it, both in a check reduction and as a part of my career payment package. It's my money. Like any other insurance, there must be a legitimate reason to use it. (I cannot up and quit a job just because it is not to my liking. I cannot be fired for criminal mischief, such as stealing from my employer). But if I am unemployed because there is no longer enough work for me, or the company goes out of business, then I have a right to get the coverage. I do fully understand the concept of keeping one's dignity with volunteering; I am saying it is inappropriate to mandate it, because someone who is on unemployment is NOT on "the dole", he or she is being paid money they have coming because their job, which they were willing to work at, for some reason beyond their control, has down-sized them. So, the analogy of the car insurance is spot on.I see nothing wrong with a scheme that runs like this.
Person A. I have no job, can I have Social Security please while I am looking for a job.
Gov. Sure we will give you X and for that we need 2 days of your week to work in your community. Contact Y and they will allocate a role best suited to your abilities. The other 3 days you can still look for a job.
People can get some motivation and self respect when they contribute and this way people are getting nothing for nothing. There are tonnes of social clubs, sports clubs, charity organisations, neighbourhood watch, tidy towns/villages that are always crying out for volunteers that would not put any other job at risk, yet would be helping the young, the old, the poor and generally cleaning up their own neighbourhood. I don;t think it's a lot to ask Rohaan.
GalwayGuy35: Canada is a massive country, we arent. The social welfare bill here is enormous. The fact is that while most people are looking for a job a sizeable minority of people here are quite happy to draw down welfare if they are not given a bit of a push. Alot of what the Government is proposing is re training schemes so its not as if they are all being told to clean the roads.
Retraining is a good idea so long as the training or the classes are paid for by the government as well as day care fees. Just making people pick up garbage or hand out food at the soup kitchen is not benefiting anyone. There are already too many people here who volunteer for those very few charity work positions.
I've yet too meet the person who is happy on welfare. I am not saying they don't exist,but of all the people I know on welfare,not one of them is happy to be there.
vinny1967: You have lost me with that analogy Rohaan
I see nothing wrong with a scheme that runs like this.
Person A. "I have no job, can I have Social Security please"
.
Perhaps it is different in your area. Unemployment is NOT Social Security in the U.S. I don't mean to ride this horse to the end of the corral, but this is a sensitive issue right now, due to the high unemployment here, especially among the traditional tradesmen. Our area has been so hard hit, we are losing population. I would not dare even hint to one of our loggers or fishermen that they should work for their unemployment check. If you were here and had gone through what my county has in the past four years, you would totally get it. I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I have been helping two families lately. It is a horrible situation. One of my best friends just lost her job, has two teens to raise and house payments, I am telling you this is a touchy subject.I see nothing wrong with a scheme that runs like this.
Person A. "I have no job, can I have Social Security please"
.
rohaan: I don't see how difficult it is to not understand the analogy. Unemployment insurance is a product that is purchased like any other insurance. Here in the U.S. it is deducted from one's salary. That means I pay for it, both in a check reduction and as a part of my career payment package. It's my money. Like any other insurance, there must be a legitimate reason to use it. (I cannot up and quit a job just because it is not to my liking. I cannot be fired for criminal mischief, such as stealing from my employer). But if I am unemployed because there is no longer enough work for me, or the company goes out of business, then I have a right to get the coverage. I do fully understand the concept of keeping one's dignity with volunteering; I am saying it is inappropriate to mandate it, because someone who is on unemployment is NOT on "the dole", he or she is being paid money they have coming because their job, which they were willing to work at, for some reason beyond their control, has down-sized them. So, the analogy of the car insurance is spot on.
Cultural differences would lead to understanding any analogy that is provided. Here in Ireland very few people would have Unemployment Insurance if at all. They would pay social security social insurance but it is not their money. Therein lies the difference IMO.
As such I fail to understand how people would be ''punished'' for claiming their dole by being made to contribute to their community for a portion of their week. I see only benefits for all concerned, and that would mean the long term unemployed who have no interest in ever working again would still be contributing to their community.
vinny1967: Cultural differences would lead to understanding any analogy that is provided. Here in Ireland very few people would have Unemployment Insurance if at all. They would pay social security social insurance but it is not their money. Therein lies the difference IMO.
As such I fail to understand how people would be ''punished'' for claiming their dole by being made to contribute to their community for a portion of their week. I see only benefits for all concerned, and that would mean the long term unemployed who have no interest in ever working again would still be contributing to their community.
Because it would be making it conditional that they receive what they have already paid for. (For the record, I am not in disagreement that a contribution to one's community wouldn't be beneficial. I am saying it would be inappropriate to make it mandatory. Do you understand the difference in this now? As such I fail to understand how people would be ''punished'' for claiming their dole by being made to contribute to their community for a portion of their week. I see only benefits for all concerned, and that would mean the long term unemployed who have no interest in ever working again would still be contributing to their community.
rohaan: Perhaps it is different in your area. Unemployment is NOT Social Security in the U.S. I don't mean to ride this horse to the end of the corral, but this is a sensitive issue right now, due to the high unemployment here, especially among the traditional tradesmen. Our area has been so hard hit, we are losing population. I would not dare even hint to one of our loggers or fishermen that they should work for their unemployment check. If you were here and had gone through what my county has in the past four years, you would totally get it. I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I have been helping two families lately. It is a horrible situation. One of my best friends just lost her job, has two teens to raise and house payments, I am telling you this is a touchy subject.
rohaan: Because it would be making it conditional that they receive what they have already paid for. (For the record, I am not in disagreement that a contribution to one's community wouldn't be beneficial. I am saying it would be inappropriate to make it mandatory. Do you understand the difference in this now?
I agree it's a touchy subject. We are suffering here as well Rohaan with unemployment running at 14 % and our taxes going to pay speculators in other countries but I digress.
I guess the difference is if it's their money it should not be mandatory but if it's other peoples taxes that are paying their benefits, esp when so many people live off the state by choice, they should be made contribute. Not everyone is going to agree with my position and I fully understand that.
vinny1967: I agree it's a touchy subject. We are suffering here as well Rohaan with unemployment running at 14 % and our taxes going to pay speculators in other countries but I digress.
I guess the difference is if it's their money it should not be mandatory but if it's other peoples taxes that are paying their benefits, esp when so many people live off the state by choice, they should be made contribute. Not everyone is going to agree with my position and I fully understand that.
Thank you. (It seems we DO agree, after reading each others' take on it. Isn't that nice?)I guess the difference is if it's their money it should not be mandatory but if it's other peoples taxes that are paying their benefits, esp when so many people live off the state by choice, they should be made contribute. Not everyone is going to agree with my position and I fully understand that.
modern Technology.....is to blame.....why have a work force of thousands.....like many years ago......when a machines....take over.....manual skills....whatever they may be....are dying....
rohaan: Thank you. (It seems we DO agree, after reading each others' take on it. Isn't that nice?)
I knew I liked you
In principle what you are saying is correct - you contribute to the insurance fund. However, here when a person is unemployed they receive a larger amount of money than the basic welfare payment (dole) for about 6-9 months. That is the amount of the insurance cover paid for. After that it is the basic dole which comes out of a portion of everyone's insurance contribution. For that money, the government could make it conditional that the person does community work, and would be justified in doing so.
rohaan: I don't see how difficult it is to not understand the analogy. Unemployment insurance is a product that is purchased like any other insurance. Here in the U.S. it is deducted from one's salary. That means I pay for it, both in a check reduction and as a part of my career payment package. It's my money. Like any other insurance, there must be a legitimate reason to use it. (I cannot up and quit a job just because it is not to my liking. I cannot be fired for criminal mischief, such as stealing from my employer). But if I am unemployed because there is no longer enough work for me, or the company goes out of business, then I have a right to get the coverage. I do fully understand the concept of keeping one's dignity with volunteering; I am saying it is inappropriate to mandate it, because someone who is on unemployment is NOT on "the dole", he or she is being paid money they have coming because their job, which they were willing to work at, for some reason beyond their control, has down-sized them. So, the analogy of the car insurance is spot on.
In principle what you are saying is correct - you contribute to the insurance fund. However, here when a person is unemployed they receive a larger amount of money than the basic welfare payment (dole) for about 6-9 months. That is the amount of the insurance cover paid for. After that it is the basic dole which comes out of a portion of everyone's insurance contribution. For that money, the government could make it conditional that the person does community work, and would be justified in doing so.
ooooopppppsssss I forgot to include the quote
Looking4Quality: I have only been unemployed once and I hated it I eventually started doing voluntary work and I much prefered it. I think getting out and helping in the community for social welfare would be great for everyone.
Anyone on state handouts should be made to do community work in my opinion. I brought up two boys and did two jobs to support us after I divorced my ex husband, and although it was tough I never thought of being idle and let the state keep me JMO.
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