Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched (175)

Jul 27, 2012 1:19 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
GalwayGuy35
GalwayGuy35GalwayGuy35galway, Galway Ireland25 Threads 1,537 Posts
snowlynx: Yes, won't happen though as Labour are the party of the public sector.


I'm not so sure, Pat Rabitte hinted that there may need to be changes to it in the future.
Never thought I would hear that from a Labour T.D
Jul 27, 2012 1:21 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
neesoncol01
neesoncol01neesoncol01Galway, Ireland11 Threads 2 Polls 116 Posts
kennyfromdublin: Everyone makes mistakes but when you are trying to appeal to floating voters in a TV election debate the very least you should do is come across as competent when debating the main issues of an election that affect peoples lives, in the 2007 general election SF were nearly wiped out in Dublin and nearly lost their seat in Louth in no small part thanks to Adams disastrous performance in the leaders debate.

Do you think Adams should be replaced as leader just out of interest?


no. there are some fine people that could take the place but that leadership of adams and his respect motivates the rest of the party
Jul 27, 2012 1:22 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
GalwayGuy35: I'm not so sure, Pat Rabitte hinted that there may need to be changes to it in the future.
Never thought I would hear that from a Labour T.D


I'm not co sure about that now, he was slating critics of the joke park deal last night claiming that they are demoralising public sector workers by been critical of the CPA.

Jul 27, 2012 1:24 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
neesoncol01: no. there are some fine people that could take the place but that leadership of adams and his respect motivates the rest of the party


Everybody has their sell by date and Adams costs SF many seats in election campaigns in the South, if they had a more economically competent leader they would have got about 25 seats in the last election instead of 14.
Jul 27, 2012 1:30 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
GalwayGuy35
GalwayGuy35GalwayGuy35galway, Galway Ireland25 Threads 1,537 Posts
kennyfromdublin: I'm not co sure about that now, he was slating critics of the joke park deal last night claiming that they are demoralising public sector workers by been critical of the CPA.



Hmm he must have had a change of heart so laugh
Jul 27, 2012 2:00 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
dee048
dee048dee048Cork, Ireland45 Posts
facetowardsfront: It's a pity we can't do what great nations have been doing for hundreds of years; pack a few thousand young men onto ships and send them to the nearest country and steal everything they have

We could start with England - steal everything back they stole from us


Whats England gotta do with this? Sure its our own government thats doing most of the stealing now ffs....
Jul 30, 2012 11:26 AM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
sofarsogood74
sofarsogood74sofarsogood74Dublin, Ireland40 Threads 4 Polls 2,711 Posts
kennyfromdublin: Riubbish mate, from 2000 till 2008 inflation was 34% for that period, the dole was just under €100 per week for a single person with no kids,?



No it wasn't. It was about 130 Euro in the year 2000.

kennyfromdublin: the dole increased by 101% between 2000-08 which represents a 67% real time increase after adjusting for inflation, people who are unemployed shouldn't be spending their dole money on x boxes, I pods or FANCY tvs THEY ARE NON essential when one is unemployed, ?


I never said they should spend tham on those items. I was just showing how our society could not be compared to the 60's or 70's as people are under far more pressure in a consumer based economy to spend...especailly those with kids. So comparing the two eras is idiotic! And the unemployemnt benefit people get in Ireland is one of the lowest in Europe!!! As for unemployment assistance it has to be that level because of the cost of living. If we had full employment I could see your point but you seem hell bent on punishing a large bunch of people who are unemployed through no fault of their own!!!!


kennyfromdublin: I want to see a society where people are better off working instead of not working, if that means reversing all tax increases and curring welfare benefits then so be it.?


Well the first thing that society needs to provide is jobs!!!! It is pointless unless there are jobs!!!! The vast majority of people who are unemployed now worked during the boom but idiots like you seem to forget that. You talk about incentives to work when there are no jobs!!! Why not get the politicans to concentrate on creating jobs and then you can moan about the unemployed????
Jul 30, 2012 11:51 AM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
sofarsogood74: No it wasn't. It was about 130 Euro in the year 2000.
I never said they should spend tham on those items. I was just showing how our society could not be compared to the 60's or 70's as people are under far more pressure in a consumer based economy to spend...especailly those with kids. So comparing the two eras is idiotic! And the unemployemnt benefit people get in Ireland is one of the lowest in Europe!!! As for unemployment assistance it has to be that level because of the cost of living. If we had full employment I could see your point but you seem hell bent on punishing a large bunch of people who are unemployed through no fault of their own!!!!

Well the first thing that society needs to provide is jobs!!!! It is pointless unless there are jobs!!!! The vast majority of people who are unemployed now worked during the boom but idiots like you seem to forget that. You talk about incentives to work when there are no jobs!!! Why not get the politicans to concentrate on creating jobs and then you can moan about the unemployed????


In December 2001 the dole was increased to €118.80 for a single person with no kids, here's the linkhttp://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0652.html

In 2000 the dole was €98.43 per week, your quite a bit off with her estimate that the dole was about €130 in 2000 for a single person with no kids.
Jul 30, 2012 12:11 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
sofarsogood74
sofarsogood74sofarsogood74Dublin, Ireland40 Threads 4 Polls 2,711 Posts
kennyfromdublin: In December 2001 the dole was increased to €118.80 for a single person with no kids, here's the linkhttp://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0652.html

In 2000 the dole was €98.43 per week, your quite a bit off with her estimate that the dole was about €130 in 2000 for a single person with no kids.


So what? You are missing the point and did not answer any of the questions above about what cutting the dole will do to the amount of money going into the economy!
Also about how can you have incentives to go back to work when there is NO WORK!
Also if the US welfare system is so great why are % of the male population in prison. Do you know what it would cost to keep 1% of our male population in prison????
Also comparing todays society to that of the 60's and 70's is idiotic! They are like chalk and cheese!

Your plan to give tax cuts to pople saving their income would be a disaster! It would mean they would only save more and spend the same! You seem to have this view that cuttinmg welfare will solve all our problems when it wont! It will make them worse!

Instead of attacking the people who are victims of the recession why not contact you local FG or Labour politican and ask them where are the 100,000 jobs they promised????

The only way we will solve our problems is to get people spending again and create jobs to take people off welfare and raise the tax income. There is still plenty of money i n this country but a small % have it all. We need to hit those people with higher taxes.
Jul 30, 2012 12:20 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
sofarsogood74: So what? You are missing the point and did not answer any of the questions above about what cutting the dole will do to the amount of money going into the economy!
Also about how can you have incentives to go back to work when there is NO WORK!
Also if the US welfare system is so great why are % of the male population in prison. Do you know what it would cost to keep 1% of our male population in prison????
Also comparing todays society to that of the 60's and 70's is idiotic! They are like chalk and cheese!

Your plan to give tax cuts to pople saving their income would be a disaster! It would mean they would only save more and spend the same! You seem to have this view that cuttinmg welfare will solve all our problems when it wont! It will make them worse!

Instead of attacking the people who are victims of the recession why not contact you local FG or Labour politican and ask them where are the 100,000 jobs they promised????

The only way we will solve our problems is to get people spending again and create jobs to take people off welfare and raise the tax income. There is still plenty of money i n this country but a small % have it all. We need to hit those people with higher taxes.


Wrong analysis, in the early 80's when Reagen was president in America, taxes were cut right across the board, guess what happened, America came out of recession, cutting taxes would encourage wealthy people to invest in new businesses whgich proved to be very sucessful in America in the early 80's, creating new employment, the best way to create jobs is to drastically reduce the costs of doing business, not discredited keynesnian economics of trying to spend your way out of recession which has never worked.

Your right 1% of the adult population may be in jail in America, why is it that a disproportionate number of prisoners are Hispanic or African-American, in the black community just over 70% of children are brought up in single parent households, usually fatherless, I'm saying that as a single parent myself BTW that the traditional 2 parent family is generally regarded as the best environment in which to rear children.

If America didn't have such a high divorce rate there would be less crime and less poverty but then again liberals like yourself don't care less about the family. Rigid co ercive, non negotiable discipline is essential especially in working class areas if the crime rate is to fall.

Cutting the dole is essential as well as reducing the cost of living, rent allowance needs to be drastically reduced etc. Its also ideologically recognised that countries come out of recession quicker if they concentrate more on spending cuts than tax increases.
Jul 30, 2012 12:40 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
sofarsogood74
sofarsogood74sofarsogood74Dublin, Ireland40 Threads 4 Polls 2,711 Posts
Anyway as I am one of the lucky ones to have a job it is time for me to go home. Working this late on a Monday is never good. motorcycle
Jul 30, 2012 1:36 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
kennyfromdublin: Cutting the dole is essential as well as reducing the cost of living, rent allowance needs to be drastically reduced etc. Its also ideologically recognised that countries come out of recession quicker if they concentrate more on spending cuts than tax increases.


Cart before horse springs to mind with this gem.

1/3 of my income goes on my rent. Reduce rent allowance further and that % will increase. A 1/3 of your income might go on your rent or mortgage too....but reduce rent allowance and the dole any further and I would hedge a bet that my entire months money for food, electricity, heating and clothing etc will be close if not less than what your earn.

And you might say you earn it...but i dont earn my social welfare payment. I worked for years, had a very good job. I am trying my level best to find work. But as I highlighted in a previous post, given the restrictions and conditions regarding the types of work I can do (pt V ft etc) plus the fact there's nowhere near enough jobs out there, this is proving a harder and harder a task.
Jul 30, 2012 1:37 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
Mariannette: Cart before horse springs to mind with this gem.

1/3 of my income goes on my rent. Reduce rent allowance further and that % will increase. A 1/3 of your income might go on your rent or mortgage too....but reduce rent allowance and the dole any further and I would hedge a bet that my entire months money for food, electricity, heating and clothing etc will be close if not less than what your earn in a week.

And you might say you earn it...but i dont earn my social welfare payment. I worked for years, had a very good job. I am trying my level best to find work. But as I highlighted in a previous post, given the restrictions and conditions regarding the types of work I can do (pt V ft etc) plus the fact there's nowhere near enough jobs out there, this is proving a harder and harder a task.
Jul 31, 2012 12:50 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
facetowardsfront
facetowardsfrontfacetowardsfrontCork, Ireland42 Threads 1 Polls 2,921 Posts
Mariannette: But being that I am raising my child as a single parent....I for one will never accept the fact he only has one parent as any reason nor excuse for bad behaviour


Kenny is right. The vast majority of boys from single mother homes end up in trouble.
Jul 31, 2012 1:03 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
Looking at all the choices set out by WP, the one that sits most closely to me would be modifications in the public services...

NOT cutting jobs in the public sector, but getting value for money...(did i hear right?, 70% of the health budget goes on wages, and how much beurocracy and middle management is that also feeding?)

I have worked (well, untill now, redundancy a month ago) in the private sector since i left school, my pay has never been astounding for the time i spent training (often on-going) and the huge financial outlay and investment in my work (mechanic / 40,000 euro adjusted over 25 years), my holidays have been on average throughout employment 21 days paid and sick leave pay under contract has not been an option, add to that i had taken 2 pay cuts in as many years in order to protect my employment...

I dont blame public servants taking advantage of secured pay, generous sick leave, sizable holidays and a greater degree of job security, dammit, like the man said "good business is were you find it", but really, in such times of economic dispare, could we not see the government and the public servants agree to practical cost measures that would save a fortune to the public purse....

A friend of mine is a nurse in Galway and told me of the 6 months full sick pay option with a further 6 months on half pay ( i know about the recent reduction proposal ), I love her to pieces but boy did we get heated on that one...
Furthermore, there are people (small in number) who consider full paid sick as a form of furher holiday entitlement, how can this be right?....

As i said, i dont want to see people loose jobs, god forbid, but since the working people of Ireland, private and public sector alike are bank rolling the public sector, dont they have a right to get value for their euro!...


AB....
Jul 31, 2012 1:32 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
facetowardsfront
facetowardsfrontfacetowardsfrontCork, Ireland42 Threads 1 Polls 2,921 Posts
About_Blank: Looking at all the choices set out by WP, the one that sits most closely to me would be modifications in the public services


Sure the Workers Party don't have a clue mate. You'd be better taking political advice from the Telly Tubbies.
Jul 31, 2012 1:38 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
facetowardsfront: Sure the Workers Party don't have a clue mate. You'd be better taking political advice from the Telly Tubbies.


Really Face....

What i know about politics, you could write on the back of a matchbox with a pick handle!...

Id probbo best get back to me "Wheres Wally" book and leave the business of governance to "experts", as ya do!...

AB...

P.O.S.H, why, dont we learn something new every day!...
Jul 31, 2012 1:45 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
facetowardsfront: Kenny is right. The vast majority of boys from single mother homes end up in trouble.


Which is why I make sure my son has good quality male role models in his life and out of a list of the 10 harmful things singles mothers do to ruin their sons....I am only occasionally guilty of one of them.
Jul 31, 2012 2:27 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
Mariannette: Well I would think...instead of stigmatising these young people more or encouraging people to stay in unhealthy relationships.....that support, education, adequate training etc would be the way to go.

But being that I am raising my child in as a single parent....I for one will never accept the fact he only has one parent as any reason nor excuse for bad behaviour.


I'm a single parent with a 12 year old son, I have never abandoned by son and have always faced up to my duties and responsibilities as a parent, my kids mum is a good woman, we split up when our son was 2 years of age and I regret it to this day, shes still a very good friend.

My son does well in school but he was in a class in primary school with 3 other kids from single parent families, all 3 kids had behavioural problems and by all accounts their fathers had little or no role in their lives.
Jul 31, 2012 2:30 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
facetowardsfront: Kenny is right. The vast majority of boys from single mother homes end up in trouble.


Its not a majority that end up in trouble but statistics throughout the world show that kids from single parent families are far more likely to be invloved academic underachievement, behavioural problems or in extreme cases resort to crime compared to kids who are brought up in the traditional family.
Aug 1, 2012 5:46 AM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
sofarsogood74
sofarsogood74sofarsogood74Dublin, Ireland40 Threads 4 Polls 2,711 Posts
kennyfromdublin: In America about 50% of marriages end up in divorce, just over 1 in 4 children are brought up in single parent families, in Britain about 1 in 3 marriages end up in divorce, in the UK in youth offender homes 70% of kids were brought up in single parent families..


You see that is crap because the US does not have the highest divorce rate in the world.The divorce rate in England is huge and the Scottish, Welsh and N. Ireland rates keep the average down! Sweden has a divorce rate of 55% and their prison population isn't huge??? There are no links to divorce rates and prison populations and your Birthday Card psychology does not stand up! You are trying to explain away the huge prison population in the states without blaming the huge social problems of poverty and terrible welfare because it doesn't fit your argument!!!!!roll eyes

kennyfromdublin: Free market economics has been far more sucessful than socialism or social democracy, Europe is dying economically thanks to heavy taxation, overbloated welfare states combined with a huge sense of entitlement..


Europe is dying thanks to Big Business! The BANKS have brought Europe to its knees not Socialism. There were right wing parties in power in France and Germany when this crises started. FF right wing politics of looking after the banks and big developers caused oyur problems. For you to say socialism has caused our current situation shows how full of crap you are! The WORLD knows this is a banking crises caused by the greed of banks and big business!
And if you want to talk about feelings of entitlement what about all the developers in the high court every day claiming they should not have to pay back their debts. The Bank Executives who caused this still on huge money, The Quinn Family hoarding hundreds of millions and expecting the tax payer to pick up their debts??? These people feel entitled to hold on to all their wealth and the trappings of wealth and expect the tax payer to pay off all their debts!!!! Dont talk to me about entitlement!!!!!roll eyes
Aug 1, 2012 12:33 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
sofarsogood74: Regan was an actor who suffered from alzheimer's for a lot of his 8 years. He was a puppet!
Reagan claimed that people who commit violent crimes "are not desperate people seeking bread for their families, he said "crime is the way they've chosen to live.He failed to address the stark realities underlying crime, namely the national culture of poverty and discrimination.

He caused a bubble in defence spending!!! Reagan increased the defense budget for an unprecedented six consecutive years. This spending produced an unsustainable bubble in the defense industry that led to decades of restructuring.
He also never balanced the budget!!!
In his two terms in office, Reagan slashed federal aid to schools by more than $1 billion, and he cut the Department of Education budget by 19%. He actually threatened to abolish the department of Education!!!!!
Reagan believed that widespread freeloading plagued welfare and social programs. As Reagan slashed spending in his first term on programs such as food stamps and subsidized housing the poverty rate climbed from 12% to 15% and unemployment rose from 7% to 11%

He caused a recession from about July 1981 to the start of 1983 with his policies!!! And when his defence bubble burst when he left office the US had another recession in the early 1990's!!!!
I could go on!!! The man was an idiot.


Ah yes the bleeding heart liberal argument that poverty causes crime, there are thousands of poor people in Ireland who have never been invloved in crime, a some people are usually poor for a reason, they deserve to be poor because they have never shown any ambition to better themselves, sad but true.

As for Reagan, I didn't like his foreign policies I'll agree with you on that, America should always pursue an isolationist foreign policy in my opinion. Reagan was a very good president who brought unprecedented prosperity to America in the 1980's and gave the country back its self confidence after the disaster of the Nixon, Ford and Carter presidencies.

He didn't run a balanced budget unfortunately as the Democrats controlled congress while he was president and the Dems controlled the senate for 4 out of 8 years while reagan was president. That would have required compromise by Reagan in order to get most of his policies implemented. When Reagan got reelected in 1984 unemployment was at 7% in late 84 and continued to fall while he was president. If unemployment was 11% in America in November 84 Reagan would never have been reelected, he absolutely hammered that big government statist Walter Mondale.

If Reagan didn't care less about the poor in your opinion why did he get millions of traditional blue collar democrats to vote for him in 2 elections, care to answer that question for me?
Aug 1, 2012 10:34 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
whitepaws: With more savings to be made and the talk of Thurles Hospital closing and People with intellectual Disabilities having their funding cut i was wondering if you had to , which would you cut to keep the other services payments going Or is there something we havent thought of ...


crap! again with the public servant bashing!!! I say we cut out bailing out large corporations and banks.
Aug 2, 2012 4:42 AM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
halfavag
halfavaghalfavagdublin, Dublin Ireland218 Posts
facetowardsfront: Kenny is right. The vast majority of boys from single mother homes end up in trouble.
they might be single mother homes but weres the fathers ?maybe if half of them showed an interest in their kids they mightnt end up in trouble.most single mothers do a great job.ive raised 6 kids ,im 30 years married but wen my youngest was 13 he got in with wrong crowd, took me till he was 17 to get him back on track, hes 18 now with a 7 month old child.it can happen to anyones kids not just single mothers
Aug 3, 2012 7:46 AM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
About_Blank: NOT cutting jobs in the public sector, but getting value for money...(did i hear right?, 70% of the health budget goes on wages, and how much beurocracy and middle management is that also feeding?)


It seems to me that everyone is against the public servant lately - and it causes me to want to rant! Public service is all about people including middle management. Taxes pay for service - service is people not things. The governments don't make wigets. They build and maintain the infrastructure, keep the lights on, care for those in hospitals, clean the hospitals, clean the streets, fill the public libraries, ensure that businesses and the citizens comply with the laws. It is better to pay people to provide service to their country and to others than to give them welfare and tax cuts. Public servants upper management also have to plan how to use our tax money to the most advantageous - that takes planning.

The argument was always that in economic good times private paid good money for well-skilled workers and only the losers who couldn't work in the real life got jobs in public service. That is simply not true - public services are no more or less skilled than those in private enterprise.

The myth continues on today. So now when economic times are bad, those that chose the less pay of public service with the understanding that long service would provide reasonable work conditions and retirement benefits at the end - and you couldnot be fired because the boss needed to give your job to his in- laws - you could always be fired in public service for just cause.

Now the public shouts with the same crap - public services don't deserve the pay and benefits they're getting because they wouldn't get it if it were in the real world.

,,,, rant over.....
liar
Aug 3, 2012 11:07 AM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
JeanKimberley: It seems to me that everyone is against the public servant lately - and it causes me to want to rant! Public service is all about people including middle management. Taxes pay for service - service is people not things. The governments don't make wigets. They build and maintain the infrastructure, keep the lights on, care for those in hospitals, clean the hospitals, clean the streets, fill the public libraries, ensure that businesses and the citizens comply with the laws. It is better to pay people to provide service to their country and to others than to give them welfare and tax cuts. Public servants upper management also have to plan how to use our tax money to the most advantageous - that takes planning.

The argument was always that in economic good times private paid good money for well-skilled workers and only the losers who couldn't work in the real life got jobs in public service. That is simply not true - public services are no more or less skilled than those in private enterprise.

The myth continues on today. So now when economic times are bad, those that chose the less pay of public service with the understanding that long service would provide reasonable work conditions and retirement benefits at the end - and you couldnot be fired because the boss needed to give your job to his in- laws - you could always be fired in public service for just cause.

Now the public shouts with the same crap - public services don't deserve the pay and benefits they're getting because they wouldn't get it if it were in the real world.
,,,, rant over.....


Most private sector companies have moved away from defined benefit pensions to defined contribution pensions that are determined by the stock market, like Ireland, America has an overbloated public service that needs to be trimmed down to size.

In Ireland all public sector workers should be put on defined contribution pensions and jobs for life security should end immediately.

I don't know about America but in Ireland public service workers enjoy fare superior terms and conditions when compared to private sector workers, thats not public sector bashing thats a fact, in Ireland, the government has a completely unaffordable public sector pensions system that would be unaffordable even if zombie banks had been allowed go bang.

In ireland it is virtually impossible to fire incompetent teachers ditto with America. In America a number of cities in California have declared bankruptcy in the last few months as they can;t afford to pay out generous public sector pensions, the only thing that will end this runaway pension gravy train is an outright default in both Ireland and America.
Aug 3, 2012 9:22 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
WESTERNSTAR1
WESTERNSTAR1WESTERNSTAR1†_ °_†, Cork Ireland8 Threads 5 Polls 3,490 Posts
Aug 4, 2012 10:54 AM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
whitepaws
whitepawswhitepawsDock of the bay, Galway Ireland24 Threads 4 Polls 459 Posts
WESTERNSTAR1: http://youtu.be/f4K6ZxDwi34




rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing

And this helps by confused


If you google Kliene Mouse by a german group you might like that even more thumbs up
Aug 4, 2012 11:14 AM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
WESTERNSTAR1
WESTERNSTAR1WESTERNSTAR1†_ °_†, Cork Ireland8 Threads 5 Polls 3,490 Posts
whitepaws: And this helps by If you google Kliene Mouse by a german group you might like that even more
sometimes if i stay in drinking with a friend or 2,we play drinking games,sometimes i loose so they get to post things on here and if i win i get to post on their fb page.its great fun laugh head banger cheers
Aug 4, 2012 12:05 PM CST Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched
TwinkleStar_70
TwinkleStar_70TwinkleStar_70Near carloe, Carlow Ireland14 Threads 2 Polls 1,230 Posts
TwinkleStar_70: part of that 188pw, may go forward rent. mine is 100 pw, food and petrol. just with 88. not all spend all day drinking!!!lol!
and pay bills as well!

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