Which Payments should be cut to save money and what shouldnt be touched (175)
stanley8m: The public sector are over paid and there are too many doing nothing. Slash the numbers and salaries, crush the unions.
Social welfare rates are too high. Forget about giving them dole,and replace it with food vouchers.
Childrens allowance should be scrapped completely.
Foreigners to get no state assistance.
Social welfare rates are too high. Forget about giving them dole,and replace it with food vouchers.
Childrens allowance should be scrapped completely.
Foreigners to get no state assistance.
Agreed on the public sector, public sector trade unions should also have the assets seized if they go on strike and internment should be brought in against trade union leaders. Sean Fitzpatrick should be shot and Fianna Fail outlawed for financial trason.
As regards child benefit it would probably lead to the birth rate plumeting in Ireland if it was abolished, it should be capped at 2 kids at €80 per month for each child.
As regards immigrants if you haven't worked for a minimum of 5 years you shouldn't be getting welfare assistance similar to the system australia has.
I agree with food stamps after 52 weeks unemplyment as well as charities playing a greater role in welfare services similar to what happens in the US.
cut the dole in half.bet ye jobs will appear then
Agreed on the public sector, public sector trade unions should also have the assets seized if they go on strike and internment should be brought in against trade union leaders. Sean Fitzpatrick should be shot and Fianna Fail outlawed for financial trason.
As regards child benefit it would probably lead to the birth rate plumeting in Ireland if it was abolished, it should be capped at 2 kids at €80 per month for each child.
As regards immigrants if you haven't worked for a minimum of 5 years you shouldn't be getting welfare assistance similar to the system australia has.
I agree with food stamps after 52 weeks unemplyment as well as charities playing a greater role in welfare services similar to what happens in the US.[/quote]
So if a man works for 30 years, pays taxes and then due to no fault of his own is unemployed. At the age of 50 he can't find work in any sector. Aftter 12 months you would demean that person by giving them food stamps and making them use them in Supermarkets?
Plus how will they pay their other bills like mortgage or rent, gas and leccy bill, TV Licence to name a few? Food stamps too?
It never ceases to amaze me how people are so bent on punishing people who find themsleves unemployed because of the mistakes of Banks, Developers and FF. During the boom these people worked so they are not lazy but you would give them food stamps?
Makes me quite sad people have that attitude. Karma is a great thing.
As regards child benefit it would probably lead to the birth rate plumeting in Ireland if it was abolished, it should be capped at 2 kids at €80 per month for each child.
As regards immigrants if you haven't worked for a minimum of 5 years you shouldn't be getting welfare assistance similar to the system australia has.
I agree with food stamps after 52 weeks unemplyment as well as charities playing a greater role in welfare services similar to what happens in the US.[/quote]
So if a man works for 30 years, pays taxes and then due to no fault of his own is unemployed. At the age of 50 he can't find work in any sector. Aftter 12 months you would demean that person by giving them food stamps and making them use them in Supermarkets?
Plus how will they pay their other bills like mortgage or rent, gas and leccy bill, TV Licence to name a few? Food stamps too?
It never ceases to amaze me how people are so bent on punishing people who find themsleves unemployed because of the mistakes of Banks, Developers and FF. During the boom these people worked so they are not lazy but you would give them food stamps?
Makes me quite sad people have that attitude. Karma is a great thing.
kennyfromdublin: Agreed on the public sector, public sector trade unions should also have the assets seized if they go on strike and internment should be brought in against trade union leaders. Sean Fitzpatrick should be shot and Fianna Fail outlawed for financial trason.
As regards child benefit it would probably lead to the birth rate plumeting in Ireland if it was abolished, it should be capped at 2 kids at €80 per month for each child.
As regards immigrants if you haven't worked for a minimum of 5 years you shouldn't be getting welfare assistance similar to the system australia has.
I agree with food stamps after 52 weeks unemplyment as well as charities playing a greater role in welfare services similar to what happens in the US.
As regards child benefit it would probably lead to the birth rate plumeting in Ireland if it was abolished, it should be capped at 2 kids at €80 per month for each child.
As regards immigrants if you haven't worked for a minimum of 5 years you shouldn't be getting welfare assistance similar to the system australia has.
I agree with food stamps after 52 weeks unemplyment as well as charities playing a greater role in welfare services similar to what happens in the US.
So if a man works for 30 years, pays taxes and then due to no fault of his own is unemployed. At the age of 50 he can't find work in any sector. Aftter 12 months you would demean that person by giving them food stamps and making them use them in Supermarkets?
Plus how will they pay their other bills like mortgage or rent, gas and leccy bill, TV Licence to name a few? Food stamps too?
It never ceases to amaze me how people are so bent on punishing people who find themsleves unemployed because of the mistakes of Banks, Developers and FF. During the boom these people worked so they are not lazy but you would give them food stamps?
Makes me quite sad people have that attitude. Karma is a great thing
theprowler: cut the dole in half.bet ye jobs will appear then
I'd love to know how that works.
Cut the dole and that creates jobs?
Are you a FG party member by any chance?
sofarsogood74: So if a man works for 30 years, pays taxes and then due to no fault of his own is unemployed. At the age of 50 he can't find work in any sector. Aftter 12 months you would demean that person by giving them food stamps and making them use them in Supermarkets?
Plus how will they pay their other bills like mortgage or rent, gas and leccy bill, TV Licence to name a few? Food stamps too?
It never ceases to amaze me how people are so bent on punishing people who find themsleves unemployed because of the mistakes of Banks, Developers and FF. During the boom these people worked so they are not lazy but you would give them food stamps?
Makes me quite sad people have that attitude. Karma is a great thing
Plus how will they pay their other bills like mortgage or rent, gas and leccy bill, TV Licence to name a few? Food stamps too?
It never ceases to amaze me how people are so bent on punishing people who find themsleves unemployed because of the mistakes of Banks, Developers and FF. During the boom these people worked so they are not lazy but you would give them food stamps?
Makes me quite sad people have that attitude. Karma is a great thing
I'd have no objections to a fuel allowance card similar to what happens in the US, sell the TV if your unemployed TV is a non essential item of expenditure, go to the libary and rent out books to read. I agree with you that people who have lost their jobs because of the recession are not lazy, I never said they were lazy.
The banks should have been allowed go bang, not only should Sean Fitzpatrick but so should the Quinns as well especially Peter Darragh Quinn, add Bertie Ahern to the list as well.
kennyfromdublin: I'd have no objections to a fuel allowance card similar to what happens in the US, sell the TV if your unemployed TV is a non essential item of expenditure, go to the libary and rent out books to read. I agree with you that people who have lost their jobs because of the recession are not lazy, I never said they were lazy.
The banks should have been allowed go bang, not only should Sean Fitzpatrick but so should the Quinns as well especially Peter Darragh Quinn, add Bertie Ahern to the list as well.
The banks should have been allowed go bang, not only should Sean Fitzpatrick but so should the Quinns as well especially Peter Darragh Quinn, add Bertie Ahern to the list as well.
No essential? So how do you find a job nowadays without the internet???
Basically you would punish people who are unemployed through no fault of their own. You would make them sell TV's, computers, Cars,?
What about their kids toys? Are they safe?
What you are saying is just wrong. The unemployed are not the cause of our problems, they are a victim of our problems.
Asd I said before. Karma my friend.
sofarsogood74: But there are no jobs? We have 450,000 people unemployed and we dont have 450,000 jobs. The maths is simple.
And if all "these people" are so lazy why were the vast majority working during the boom????
Maybe people should start asking why there are no jobs instead of punishing the poor people who are suffering because of it. I could not live on 188 euro a week! Could you???
And if all "these people" are so lazy why were the vast majority working during the boom????
Maybe people should start asking why there are no jobs instead of punishing the poor people who are suffering because of it. I could not live on 188 euro a week! Could you???
im not saying there lazy.i lost my job 2 yrs ago,but me and a lad from the place we were in started our own gig,and i wouldnt b the brightest light on the street
i didnt even consider the dole office,could have but i wanted to test myself.theprowler: im not saying there lazy.i lost my job 2 yrs ago,but me and a lad from the place we were in started our own gig,and i wouldnt b the brightest light on the street i didnt even consider the dole office,could have but i wanted to test myself.
So what? We could all have stories about people getting jobs. The facts are though there are not enough jobs for all 450,000 unemployed so cutting the dole wont change that!
For every person getting a job there is someone losing theirs.
kennyfromdublin: I agree a substantial minority of people who are unemployed are not motivated to go out and work because benefits are too high, American style welfare reform is needed.
so lets say 50k of the 450k who are unemployed cant be arsed finding work...
the other 400k want work..
does that not prove that benefits are not too high..that a substantial majority of people on benefit would rather not..cos its not liveable on and they prefer to provide for themself??
whitepaws: Have we not been in this recession for 5 years already
08...09...10...11...and now 2012
Also in regards to Blacks working in our economy I think they do a good job
08...09...10...11...and now 2012
Also in regards to Blacks working in our economy I think they do a good job
yeah that is my point we are just languishing in this depression
It's a pity we can't do what great nations have been doing for hundreds of years; pack a few thousand young men onto ships and send them to the nearest country and steal everything they have
We could start with England - steal everything back they stole from us
We could start with England - steal everything back they stole from us
facetowardsfront: It's a pity we can't do what great nations have been doing for hundreds of years; pack a few thousand young men onto ships and send them to the nearest country and steal everything they have
We could start with England - steal everything back they stole from us
We could start with England - steal everything back they stole from us
maybe we should set our sights a little lowerwhitepaws: With more savings to be made and the talk of Thurles Hospital closing and People with intellectual Disabilities having their funding cut i was wondering if you had to , which would you cut to keep the other services payments going Or is there something we havent thought of ...
As jimbo hinted at cut TD's salaries..
Let’s start off with a joke. In the Dail (Irish parliament) there is a so-called whip system whereby a politician from each political party is appointed to the post of whip to that party, and their job is to ensure party members turn up at work, that they vote in accordance with the leadership’s wishes and that party members are disciplined. A special additional salary payment is made to the party whip. The Socialist Party has two elected Teachta Dala (TDs, or deputies) – Clare Daly and Joe Higgins. One of them – I’m not sure which, because presumably they are too ashamed to publicly declare it – is entitled to receive a special additional salary payment of €6,000 per annum to be the Socialist Party whip! Cue the punch-line drum roll! Except it’s not a joke, and by the time you finish this blogpost on political pay and allowances in Ireland, you will not be laughing.
This country is bankrupt with an annual deficit of €15bn, in other words we need borrow €300m a week just to keep the country going. We are being bailed out by the IMF and others. We are steadily travelling in a trajectory that will see a debt:GDP of nearly 120% next year or 140%-plus of GNP, or according to most economists, on the border if not having exceeded sustainable levels. We have €3.8bn of new taxes and cuts to services in 2012, next year we will have an additional adjustment of €3.5bn, in 2014 it will be €3.1bn and in 2015 it will be €2bn, and these cuts will be cumulative, so that by 2015 – and in comparison with 2011 – there will be an annual adjustment of €12.4bn. If you think a €100 household charge here, a €5 septic tank registration fee there, a cut to emergency payments or the deterioration in public services after this month’s early retirements are anything, then you ain’t seen nothing yet.
fifitheminx: so lets say 50k of the 450k who are unemployed cant be arsed finding work...
the other 400k want work..
does that not prove that benefits are not too high..that a substantial majority of people on benefit would rather not..cos its not liveable on and they prefer to provide for themself??
the other 400k want work..
does that not prove that benefits are not too high..that a substantial majority of people on benefit would rather not..cos its not liveable on and they prefer to provide for themself??
There were still around 150,000 on average unemployed in Ireland when there was full employment in Ireland, I wouldn't be surprised if about a third of people currently unemployed will decide its not while their while not working.
A family with one kid would be better off not working than working on the minimum wage for instance.
how about not blaming anyone.....and energy is put into finding a solution. And cuts, some necessary, are on the cards....but creating useful and adequate training, re-skilling and re-educating is where everyones time and energy would be better spent.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread.....the only one of those cuts I would like to see is the child benefit becoming means tested.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread.....the only one of those cuts I would like to see is the child benefit becoming means tested.
Mariannette: how about not blaming anyone.....and energy is put into finding a solution. And cuts, some necessary, are on the cards....but creating useful and adequate training, re-skilling and re-educating is where everyones time and energy would be better spent.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread.....the only one of those cuts I would like to see is the child benefit becoming means tested.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread.....the only one of those cuts I would like to see is the child benefit becoming means tested.
I agree new solutions need to be found to create employment in Ireland, wages will have to be cut including the minimum wage, if new jobs are to be created people will have to work for lower wages.
kennyfromdublin: I agree new solutions need to be found to create employment in Ireland, wages will have to be cut including the minimum wage, if new jobs are to be created people will have to work for lower wages.
They really have to re-think the situation for those who work or are willing to work part time.
I was offered a part time job, 3 hrs a day, 2-3 days a week.
For each day I would work I would earn €27....yet would lose €37 from my dole and it'd cost me €11 to get the bus into the job. So if I would have taken the job I would have been down €20 every DAY. There is no way on earth I can afford that much as I would LOVE to be working.
So if I took the job...worked 3 days for 3hrs I would earn €81 but LOSE €113 from my jobseekers PLUS it would have cost me €33 on top of that.
So working pt for 3 days at 3hrs per day.....my weekly money would be €123!!!!
Thats why working part time does not make financial sense.
You might think I should work for the sake of working....and I would love to work....but just how many of you could survive on €123 a week when you pay more than half of that in rent?????
Its situations like this that is creating a lot of the problem.
KNenagh: Unemployment rate Germany: 6.6% (compared to over 12% in 2005)
Current social welfare payment in Germany is €374 per month.
The social welfare rate in Germany is way lower than in Ireland, you are not allowed to have savings for more than €10,000, your car should not be valued more than €7,500, your house should not be bigger than 130sqm and if you have life insurance, not more than €16,250. Any questions and I can post the link..
Current social welfare payment in Germany is €374 per month.
The social welfare rate in Germany is way lower than in Ireland, you are not allowed to have savings for more than €10,000, your car should not be valued more than €7,500, your house should not be bigger than 130sqm and if you have life insurance, not more than €16,250. Any questions and I can post the link..
Does that rate not only take effect after one year unemployment? Whe you first lose your job are you not started on a % of what your last wage was and its gradually decreased over a year? My frind lived in Germany for 5 years and thats the way it was when he was there he said?
KNenagh: I'm against cutting social welfare payments here in Ireland, it is hard enough to live on the current amount.
Unemployment rose from 4% to 14%, these 10% want to work and are out of work due to the current economic climate.
Everything should be means tested, best way to make sure only people below certain incomes should be able to claim.
Unemployment rose from 4% to 14%, these 10% want to work and are out of work due to the current economic climate.
Everything should be means tested, best way to make sure only people below certain incomes should be able to claim.
Means testing is the way to go but our government wont do that because it would effect their childrens allowance.
I am sick of all the people who come on here thinking cutting welfare and the minimum wage will cure all our problems. They really have no sense of empathy at all. Also if they knew a small bit of economics they would see cutting welfare and the minimum wage will cause the economy to shrink more. Even the IMF admitted that the pain is not being spread evenly in this country.
sofarsogood74: Does that rate not only take effect after one year unemployment? Whe you first lose your job are you not started on a % of what your last wage was and its gradually decreased over a year? My frind lived in Germany for 5 years and thats the way it was when he was there he said?
Means testing is the way to go but our government wont do that because it would effect their childrens allowance.
I am sick of all the people who come on here thinking cutting welfare and the minimum wage will cure all our problems. They really have no sense of empathy at all. Also if they knew a small bit of economics they would see cutting welfare and the minimum wage will cause the economy to shrink more. Even the IMF admitted that the pain is not being spread evenly in this country.
Means testing is the way to go but our government wont do that because it would effect their childrens allowance.
I am sick of all the people who come on here thinking cutting welfare and the minimum wage will cure all our problems. They really have no sense of empathy at all. Also if they knew a small bit of economics they would see cutting welfare and the minimum wage will cause the economy to shrink more. Even the IMF admitted that the pain is not being spread evenly in this country.
I was talking about social welfare not unemployment benefit. The unemployment benefit in Germany is depending on how long you worked and your age.
If you read my post you would have noticed that I didn't propose cutting the welfare rates. If the minimum wage would be cut it wouldn't pay a lot of people to go working and even more people would go on the dole.
KNenagh: I was talking about social welfare not unemployment benefit. The unemployment benefit in Germany is depending on how long you worked and your age.
If you read my post you would have noticed that I didn't propose cutting the welfare rates. If the minimum wage would be cut it wouldn't pay a lot of people to go working and even more people would go on the dole.
If you read my post you would have noticed that I didn't propose cutting the welfare rates. If the minimum wage would be cut it wouldn't pay a lot of people to go working and even more people would go on the dole.
I know you didn't. But I thought your figures were misleading. In Germany you can get 24 months on unemployment benefit and you start on a % of what your last wage was. In Ireland we only get 12 months and its a flat payment of 188 euro. So German unemployment benefit is far better than here.
The German unemployment Assistance is lower. Here is a link with all the EU countries info. Ireland are lower than most of the EU in wages and welfare and this was from 2007! We are even lower now!
sofarsogood74: I know you didn't. But I thought your figures were misleading. In Germany you can get 24 months on unemployment benefit and you start on a % of what your last wage was. In Ireland we only get 12 months and its a flat payment of 188 euro. So German unemployment benefit is far better than here.
The German unemployment Assistance is lower. Here is a link with all the EU countries info. Ireland are lower than most of the EU in wages and welfare and this was from 2007! We are even lower now!http://www.eapn.ie/documents/1_Social%20Welfare%20How%20Ireland%20Compares%20in%20Europe.pdf
The German unemployment Assistance is lower. Here is a link with all the EU countries info. Ireland are lower than most of the EU in wages and welfare and this was from 2007! We are even lower now!http://www.eapn.ie/documents/1_Social%20Welfare%20How%20Ireland%20Compares%20in%20Europe.pdf
As I said, I was talking about social welfare and not unemployment benefit. But if you want to have the figures:
A person below 50 years of age or less than 30 month officially working and paying PRSI, gets a max. of 1 year unemployment benefit.
If you’re 50 years of age and worked more than 24 month you might be able to get between 14 and 32 month (depending on your age).
Example of amount : €5600 wage per month, unemployment benefit would be €2296,50.
So, yes for the first year it's more if you're on a good salary, but you have work for a certain amount of time and pay PRSI otherwise it's social welfare. And keep an eye on the other requirements as savings, car, house etc.
KNenagh: As I said, I was talking about social welfare and not unemployment benefit. But if you want to have the figures:
A person below 50 years of age or less than 30 month officially working and paying PRSI, gets a max. of 1 year unemployment benefit.
If you’re 50 years of age and worked more than 24 month you might be able to get between 14 and 32 month (depending on your age).
Example of amount : €5600 wage per month, unemployment benefit would be €2296,50.
So, yes for the first year it's more if you're on a good salary, but you have work for a certain amount of time and pay PRSI otherwise it's social welfare. And keep an eye on the other requirements as savings, car, house etc.
A person below 50 years of age or less than 30 month officially working and paying PRSI, gets a max. of 1 year unemployment benefit.
If you’re 50 years of age and worked more than 24 month you might be able to get between 14 and 32 month (depending on your age).
Example of amount : €5600 wage per month, unemployment benefit would be €2296,50.
So, yes for the first year it's more if you're on a good salary, but you have work for a certain amount of time and pay PRSI otherwise it's social welfare. And keep an eye on the other requirements as savings, car, house etc.
But you must admit they are far better conditions than we get. A person over here on 80k a year and is let go after 30 years working gets 188 euro a week for a year. Thats it! For all his taxes and contributions over the yers he gets a year at 188 euro. Then they have to go on unemployment allowance. The max they will get is 188 but coulod be less!
In Germany that person would get a very good allowance for 2 years while they looked for work. So its only when you become long tern umemployed in Germany that rates fall below ours and with virtual full employment I can understand that.
If
sofarsogood74: But you must admit they are far better conditions than we get. A person over here on 80k a year and is let go after 30 years working gets 188 euro a week for a year. Thats it! For all his taxes and contributions over the yers he gets a year at 188 euro. Then they have to go on unemployment allowance. The max they will get is 188 but coulod be less!
In Germany that person would get a very good allowance for 2 years while they looked for work. So its only when you become long tern umemployed in Germany that rates fall below ours and with virtual full employment I can understand that.
In Germany that person would get a very good allowance for 2 years while they looked for work. So its only when you become long tern umemployed in Germany that rates fall below ours and with virtual full employment I can understand that.
In our case (age) it's for a max. of 1 year and I wouldn't have been on that amount of money.
After the year it's higher rates here.
KNenagh: In our case (age) it's for a max. of 1 year and I wouldn't have been on that amount of money.
After the year it's higher rates here.
After the year it's higher rates here.
But one year on 188 unemployment benefit here comes to about 10k.(814 Euro a month)
The average salary in Germany is 4217 Euro a month. So the average monthly unemployment benefit is WAY higher than here!
sofarsogood74: But one year on 188 unemployment benefit here comes to about 10k.(814 Euro a month)
The average salary in Germany is 4217 Euro a month. So the average monthly unemployment benefit is WAY higher than here!
The average salary in Germany is 4217 Euro a month. So the average monthly unemployment benefit is WAY higher than here!
I'm not going to debate with you all day, it depends on your age and your wage (btw, taxes etc. take off about 50% from this salary), in most areas of work there is no minimum wage in Germany, as you said average payment, not everyone is on that amound of money.
Yes, IF you're on a HIGH SALARY, your UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT will be higher in Germany FOR THE FIRST YEAR!
It doesn't have any impact on the current rates here in Ireland though...
KNenagh: I'm not going to debate with you all day, it depends on your age and your wage (btw, taxes etc. take off about 50% from this salary), in most areas of work there is no minimum wage in Germany, as you said average payment, not everyone is on that amound of money.
Yes, IF you're on a HIGH SALARY, your UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT will be higher in Germany FOR THE FIRST YEAR!
It doesn't have any impact on the current rates here in Ireland though...
Yes, IF you're on a HIGH SALARY, your UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT will be higher in Germany FOR THE FIRST YEAR!
It doesn't have any impact on the current rates here in Ireland though...
No it doesn't. And I dont want to argue with you all day. But I am just explaining how the first figures you quoted could ber misleading! And I think you know they were misleading.!
The fact is if you are on the AVERAGE working wage in Germany your unemployment benefit will be hughly higher than unemployment benefit in Ireland! Thats a fact! You would have to be on a very low wage to only get 188 euro a week unemployment benefit! ANd you have to be working here 18 months also to receive this payment!
So the welfare rates (unemployment benefit is a welfare payment in Ireland) for the first year of unemployment are hughly higher in Germany than here!
So all this crap others are saying (not sayiong you said it) about our welfare payments being huge is wrong. Our welfare payments and minimum wage are way below most of Europe and our cost of living is higher than most! No thats a fact.
Has anyone suggested cutting the payments to the bondholders yet? It's a bit of an obvious soloution I suppose. Too obvious for our gutless government to see.
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Well..... yeah