America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help? (189)

Jan 25, 2010 9:21 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
robplum
robplumrobplumEnsay, Victoria Australia107 Threads 1 Polls 12,031 Posts
menu2: I'm a Vietnam Combat Veteran....Do I get the right to my opinion?


I spent thirteen months in Nam 67/68 and have expressed mine
Jan 25, 2010 9:26 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
menu2
menu2menu2Near Galveston Island, Texas USA2,106 Posts
robplum: I spent thirteen months in Nam 67/68 and have expressed mine
Hi rob! wave 67 thru 69 1st Infantry Div (Big Red One) In all reality no one would like my opinion on how I personally feel about this government, or police-state.
Jan 25, 2010 9:27 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
robplum
robplumrobplumEnsay, Victoria Australia107 Threads 1 Polls 12,031 Posts
menu2: Hi rob! 67 thru 69 1st Infantry Div (Big Red One) In all reality no one would like my opinion on how I personally feel about this government, or police-state.

Hi mate
HQ Driver NZ Army Saigon.
Yeah they probably didn't like mine either, i can't believe they keep making more wars, tis really crazy stuff
Jan 25, 2010 9:31 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
Question: America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?


To imagine that the role of the police is to "help" the citizenry is totally naiive. There are good cops certainly, but it is the wealthy of the community who decide police policy. And when there is a conflict between the interests of the wealthy and the interests of the common people we shouldn't have any illusions as to whose interests the police leadership will see it as their duty to protect.

That is even more true when it comes to international policing.

For one thing, the US is not the official police of the world. It is the self appointed vigilante that seeks its own interests.

Did the US "help" Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos by its war there that killed millions of innocents.

Did the US help Iran by setting up the Shah?
Did the US help the Phillipines by setting up Marcos?
Did the US help Iraq by setting up Sadam Hussein?
Did the US help Argentina by setting up Pinochet?

What the US offers to countries is not "help".
It is political and economic domination.

But it's nearly over now.
The US can't take a step without China's approval.
And I don't think China is going to find much use for the US military.
Soon the US military will turn its "policing" toward the homeland.
And then people will realize why other countries didn't like it.
Jan 25, 2010 9:33 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
menu2
menu2menu2Near Galveston Island, Texas USA2,106 Posts
robplum: Hi mate
HQ Driver NZ Army Saigon.
Yeah they probably didn't like mine either, i can't believe they keep making more wars, tis really crazy stuff
Same reason as at Vietnam....Super power. The bad thing 'we lost at Vietnam'...April 75. after having over 55000 of our comrads killed. NOW THAT ISN'T VERY PLEASENT.
Jan 25, 2010 9:35 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
menu2: Hi rob! 67 thru 69 1st Infantry Div (Big Red One) In all reality no one would like my opinion on how I personally feel about this government, or police-state.


I would.
Jan 25, 2010 9:41 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
robplum
robplumrobplumEnsay, Victoria Australia107 Threads 1 Polls 12,031 Posts
menu2: Same reason as at Vietnam....Super power. The bad thing 'we lost at Vietnam'...April 75. after having over 55000 of our comrads killed. NOW THAT ISN'T VERY PLEASENT.

I thought we went there to stop communism instead the politician were building churches and stealing Buddhist children to convert,
I know that sounds sick but is best as i can fathom
What they doing now I think soon leads to the very big one
Jan 25, 2010 9:42 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
robplum
robplumrobplumEnsay, Victoria Australia107 Threads 1 Polls 12,031 Posts
RayfromUSA: I would.

I noticed but France played games in Vietnam to
Jan 25, 2010 9:54 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
menu2: Same reason as at Vietnam....Super power. The bad thing 'we lost at Vietnam'...April 75. after having over 55000 of our comrads killed. NOW THAT ISN'T VERY PLEASENT.


It's all in how you look at it.

The purpose of the Vietnam war was to make a lot of money for rich industrialists, corner the Asian heroin production (and thereby make a lot of secret funds for more adventures around the world), greatly increase the size of the military and its budget and entrench the military industrial complex into the American economy.

I don't think the US "lost" Vietnam.

I think they rode the war cash-cow as far as it could take them.

If the US had really wanted to "win" they could have invaded North Vietnam in a week.

The idea was to draw the war out as long as possible and maximize their profits and the war's impact on the US.

Seen in that light the war was a big success (for those behind it).
Jan 25, 2010 9:55 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
robplum: I noticed but France played games in Vietnam to


You won't catch me joining the foreign legion, I promise.
Jan 25, 2010 10:03 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
robplum
robplumrobplumEnsay, Victoria Australia107 Threads 1 Polls 12,031 Posts
I put together news headlines history of the Vietnam war 1950 to 1968 which though Hillary Clinton had some of it removed can be viewed on my web robplum.com
Jan 25, 2010 10:05 PM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
menu2
menu2menu2Near Galveston Island, Texas USA2,106 Posts
RayfromUSA: It's all in how you look at it.

The purpose of the Vietnam war was to make a lot of money for rich industrialists, corner the Asian heroin production (and thereby make a lot of secret funds for more adventures around the world), greatly increase the size of the military and its budget and entrench the military industrial complex into the American economy.

I don't think the US "lost" Vietnam.

I think they rode the war cash-cow as far as it could take them.

If the US had really wanted to "win" they could have invaded North Vietnam in a week.

The idea was to draw the war out as long as possible and maximize their profits and the war's impact on the US.

Seen in that light the war was a big success (for those behind it).
You could be right. But money was no object to overcome the North. If China, Russia and North Korea wouldn't have told the U.S. to get out of South Vietnam a declaration of a world war was to be declared toward the U.S.
Jan 26, 2010 1:52 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
robplum: I thought we went there to stop communism instead the politician were building churches and stealing Buddhist children to convert,
I know that sounds sick but is best as i can fathom
What they doing now I think soon leads to the very big one
Have you looked at the Viet-Cong Atrocities?very mad
Jan 26, 2010 1:59 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA23 Threads 1,965 Posts
ttom500: An interesting Pravda article on American lend lease programs to England and Russia during WWII.

Russia takes pride that it made 30,000 tanks and 40,000 aircraft during the war. Which is quiet an accomplishement for a country invaded and at war. But much of their fabrication was from American steel and aluminium. As the US sent Russia....2.3m tons of steel and 229,000ton of Alumium. How much is that? The steel would make 70,000 T-34 tanks. Russia also recieved 2.5mt of petroleum products from the US.

The US provided Russia with 595 ships. 7,000 A-20, 7025 tanks, 835 B-25 bombers, 4952 Aircobra, 2,410 Kingcobra, 131,000 machine guns. 3.8m ton of food. 15m pairs of military boots. Total Russian WWII funding by the US was $9.8b.

Which was only 1/3 of what England got at $30.3b. During WWI, the US supplied weapons to 42 different countries. Total foreign aid program totaled $46b which was 13% of America total WWII war funding.

So when did the US begin this aid program? First to receive it was
England.....when the day after his Nov. 6th, 1940 election FDR....promoted the Lend Lease program for England. Congress approved it in March of the following year.

Russia began to receive aid as the Germans were approaching Moscow as US and UK agreed to begin delivery of weapons to the country. This in late Sept. of 1941.

Last point....Russia still owes on some of the $722m that was agreed to be repaid. Not a bad military deal....$9.8b for $722m.
Even Stalin knew a good capitolist deal when it was offered.

The article was written by a Russian WWII vet.

Thank you Ttom, and let's remember that only Finland ever paid off it's debts to the U.S.-In 1976.
Jan 26, 2010 2:00 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA23 Threads 1,965 Posts
robplum: I thought we went there to stop communism instead the politician were building churches and stealing Buddhist children to convert,
I know that sounds sick but is best as i can fathom
What they doing now I think soon leads to the very big one
With all due respect to your service, you've lost your mind.
Jan 26, 2010 2:08 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
BebeII: With all due respect to your service, you've lost your mind.
That's about the Impression I got!uh oh
Jan 26, 2010 2:15 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
Dusty67
Dusty67Dusty67Christchurch, Canterbury New Zealand11 Posts
that was also the comments I heard in Iraq from former Vietnam vets. IN fact coming from NZ & having trained under NZ vets in the army first thing we saw when we hit Iraq was all the same mistakes. Colin Powell saw the simularities & that is why he had his mate from there take over. He was kicked out quick & someone with a degree & was an analyst took over. knew nothing about the what was really needed to be done. they lost it there.

I see our friend from Taiwan says US not an empire. he is wrong but they have controlled it differently through economic power. that is now transferring to the IMF & China. How are people going to control China when it is the worlds policeman?

teaching history does not mean you understand it.

As I say quite powereful Americans are referring this as the collapse of the US Empire. we study history but we don't study financial history. what is happening now happened to the Roman empire but at a much slower pace. same mistakes.
Jan 26, 2010 2:42 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
Dusty67
Dusty67Dusty67Christchurch, Canterbury New Zealand11 Posts
Kia Ora BebeII & Fathom,

NO one is saying US is all bad but the US need to look at what they do. Rob does know what he is talking about.

there is comment that everyone asks US to step in. actually most of the time that is not true but they do draw a parrallel when their is oil involved but won't when it is humanitarian. there has being some changes to that over the last few years.

someone said well why did your govts always ask ours for help not to go do our own thing.

well ours did in regards to Nuclear weapons & powered ships.

NOw this will surpise many NZ's & others today but it wasn't that popular but new government & they felt they had being elected on that stand.

Now we are supposedly a democratic country, but once our government said no more nukes. The US threw its toys out of the cot & said "you will take our ships or else!" & we have being punished since over trade etc even though we have contributed troops to many joint actions.

That though was when the country went 'anti' US as we have a national trait. we don't like being told what to do(try being a cop or security as I am & tell people to conform, usually ends up in a punch up) & that is US problem. they say have freedom of choice but when countries do & the US doesn't like it then watch out.

Same has happened in Palestine. OK Hamas is not the best going but the US & Isreal basically entrenched their place in middleeast because it was all democracy until Hamas won the election. then it was oh no. you can't have it both ways.

If both had let Hamas do it they might of either being surprised at what they achieved or Hamas would of more likely failed & become non consequential.

The least free press I have ever seen was when I was in the US. it is totally manipulated & what happens outside the US unless they are involved just didn't happen. When I visited my reltions there (US born & bred) they said the same but then they have lived outside the US.

I see the same starting to happen here in NZ. silly little local things instead of world events & I mean silly.

best thing to see your own country is to leave it & live outside for a while. you come back to all the things that are good about it, but you also see what you couldn't see before.

it is not that everyone hates the US but it needs to learn from others mistakes before it repeats them.
Jan 26, 2010 5:20 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
BebeII: Yeah, all those impoverished Europeans who invented so many things, like the telephone and electricity. The BEST and SMARTEST of the Europeans fled to make a better life for themselves, which may explain the laziness of the continenet there today.
So you felt hurt by the poor ancestors? what´s wrong with that? It´s just a fact. In my country many Italians came just with their fishing rods and ragged clothing, but now some of them are very industrious and wealthy.
And ....on the other hand: What is the offensive or funny thing about being poor, smart and good person? Nothing odd to me. It is all in your fraught-with-prejudice mind, my dear (and the electricity invention statement is a little ludicrous by the way... Do you know names like Gilbert,Faraday,Galvani...? and certainly Henry was there but not as the only one replacing a big list of a European achievement)

And again, don´t feel so important with your nationalistic stuff (don´t forget: nationalism is one of the biggest sources of bigotry...and the times are changing rapidly)...that thing of the smartest and best is too exaggerated... You have to hold yourself a bit not to offend the European allies..... let´s correct you a bit: some people that arrived in the coasts of North America were good and smart but mostly very poor...of course.

Have a G´day Bebe.
Jan 26, 2010 6:04 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
craig63
craig63craig63estepona, Andalusia Spain46 Threads 1,464 Posts
BebeII: And you have had a very poor education-obviously you've never heard of lend-lease, or the many tons of food and equipment sent to Russia.


WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT THE FOOD AND EQUIPMENT TO RUSSIA IS TRUE AND YES WAS A VERY IMPORTANT AID. BUT HAVING SERVED IN THE ROYAL AIR FORCE IT WAS US THAT DID THE MAJORITY OF THE DANGEROUS LOW FLYING ATTACKS IN THE GULF WHILE THE AMERICAN GOVERMENT HAD THEIR AIRCRAFT FLYING ABOVE THE CLOUDS IN SAFETY AND THE BRITISH SAS WERE SENT BEHIND ENEMY LINES TO OBTAIN INTELEGANCE.
AFTER THE GULF CONFLICT ONE OF YOUR COMANDERS SAID HE WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE SAS AND THIS REQUEST WAS MADE TO THE BRITISH GOVERMENT BECAUSE IT WAS FELT THAT THE SAS WERE BETTER TRAINED ( AS SAID BY ONE OF YOUR COMANDERS )
THE CONFLICT WITH SADAM HUSAN OUR BOYS WERE ASKED AGAIN BY YOUR GOVERMENT TO DO A LOT OF THE STREET FIGHTING BECAUSE WITH THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTHAN IRELAND IT WAS FELT THAT THEY WERE BETTER TRAINED.
I UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR GOVERMENT DID NOT WANT TO ADMIT THESE THINGS BUT THEY ARE THE TRUE FACTS AND WHAT MAKES SOME EUROPEANS
ANGRY THAT KNOW THE FACTS IS THAT YOUR GOVERMENT MAKES THEMSELFS
LOOK AND SOUND THAT THEY ARE GODS GIFT TO MANKIND.
Jan 26, 2010 6:09 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
sentinelshade
sentinelshadesentinelshadeMinot, North Dakota USA5 Posts
Born and raised in the US; I'm actually in the US military at that. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't wonder about our government's motives sometimes. I don't think we're as wholesome as what is portrayed.
Jan 26, 2010 6:14 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
kiwi69
kiwi69kiwi69Auckland, New Zealand4 Threads 262 Posts
By the way, regarding your question ie 'policeman' -- who's the cop and who's the robber? peace
Jan 26, 2010 6:52 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
kiwi69: By the way, regarding your question ie 'policeman' -- who's the cop and who's the robber?
Cop and robber are usually confused in this cartoon...laugh
Jan 26, 2010 7:01 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
kiwi69
kiwi69kiwi69Auckland, New Zealand4 Threads 262 Posts
Antjo39: Cop and robber are usually confused in this cartoon...


I see your from Peru, unless you have nothing to give we wont INVADE, any spare oil? When we say jump you say 'how high' banana banana help
Jan 26, 2010 7:01 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
sentinelshade: Born and raised in the US; I'm actually in the US military at that. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't wonder about our government's motives sometimes. I don't think we're as wholesome as what is portrayed.
Well, that bad portrayal usually comes from the little and big think-tanks here and there. They say things like "the heroic US private fighting in foreign lands for the well-being of people they don´t even know, fighting for giving them a little of peace, democracy and civilization..." Lovely eh?
The point is that those soldiers have taken all that -according to these fanatic Saints- because that is a sort of divine mandate, an absolute commandment dictated by God through the president ruling the decaying empire.
Jan 26, 2010 7:02 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
kiwi69: I see your from Peru, unless you have nothing to give we wont INVADE, any spare oil? When we say jump you say 'how high'
Understood Sir....can I dismiss now?laugh
Jan 26, 2010 7:16 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
kiwi69
kiwi69kiwi69Auckland, New Zealand4 Threads 262 Posts
Antjo39: Well, that bad portrayal usually comes from the little and big think-tanks here and there. They say things like "the heroic US private fighting in foreign lands for the well-being of people they don´t even know, fighting for giving them a little of peace, democracy and civilization..." Lovely eh?
The point is that those soldiers have taken all that -according to these fanatic Saints- because that is a sort of divine mandate, an absolute commandment dictated by God through the president ruling the decaying empire.


Apparently it's called the constitution, ie right to bear arms but then again thats debatable because under American law that constitutes protection against ones civil rights "PROTECTION", I didn't realize America included amongst their 'so called freedom of speech' the right to INVADE SOVERIGN NATIONS against its own constitutional rights. Properganda says GET REAL
Jan 26, 2010 7:47 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
craig63
craig63craig63estepona, Andalusia Spain46 Threads 1,464 Posts
imsophie1: America has a relatively short history, if you consider the extensive histories of other countries. To me, America is like a new bully on the block. We're the new kid on the block, but we're going to bully everyone else into playing by our rules. And we're not going to allow anyone else to become a bigger bully than we are. And we're going to stick our nose in everyone's business to make sure no one is getting any ideas about trying to take over our neighborhood.

Sad way to feel about my own country, but that's the way it is.


WELL SAID THE THING THAT MAKES MOST PEOPLE IN BRITION VERY ANGRY
IS THAT OUR STUPID GOVERMENT SAY YOU SAY JUMP AND WE SAY HOW
HIGH. GOOD TO SEE THAT SOME PEOPLE DO HAVE THEIR EYES OPEN.

thumbs up
Jan 27, 2010 8:26 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
Taichungrunner
TaichungrunnerTaichungrunnerTaichung, Taiwan Province Taiwan1 Threads 1 Polls 85 Posts
RayfromUSA: Did the US help Argentina by setting up Pinochet?


Wow, and I thought Pinochet was leader of Chile. Thanks for correcting my mistaken history. professor
Jan 27, 2010 8:29 AM CST America is the worlds policeman today, why do so many of us criticise their help?
Taichungrunner
TaichungrunnerTaichungrunnerTaichung, Taiwan Province Taiwan1 Threads 1 Polls 85 Posts
kiwi69: I see your from Peru, unless you have nothing to give we wont INVADE, any spare oil? When we say jump you say 'how high'


I guess that explains why the US has invaded Venezuela, doesn't it. Oh no, it hasn't...

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