Smoking is now a "nonpsychotic mental disorder" (55)
No, I am NOT psychotic! 
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Actually I'm still in the US. Flying out on 1 April (there's a joke) and this is what's happening in the US. They're not quite at this point yet in Germany in so far as they don't care whether you smoke... well, they do, but it's not as crazy as in the US.
What they're doing in the US is actually a fantastic business strategy. The insurance companies know that smokers die sooner, yet they convince everyone that their health care is more expensive than that of a 20 year Alzheimer patient, for ex. and charge more. So they double up on the profits. It's called profit maximization. Quite genius, really and it's not only happening in the insurance business.
What they're doing in the US is actually a fantastic business strategy. The insurance companies know that smokers die sooner, yet they convince everyone that their health care is more expensive than that of a 20 year Alzheimer patient, for ex. and charge more. So they double up on the profits. It's called profit maximization. Quite genius, really and it's not only happening in the insurance business.
virgiomonkey: Awesome.....!!!!!
Good Thread.....Its not happening only in 'Germany',but here in 'New Zealand'....talk about this 'Political Correct Social Engineering' gone totally Mad.....soon if you don't go to the 'toilet' at a certain time in the day, they will have a 'Label' for you as well......
Good Thread.....Its not happening only in 'Germany',but here in 'New Zealand'....talk about this 'Political Correct Social Engineering' gone totally Mad.....soon if you don't go to the 'toilet' at a certain time in the day, they will have a 'Label' for you as well......
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I wouldn't even put alcoholics and smokers in the same category except to say that they're addicts, but one can be dependent on nicotine and never be functionally or otherwise impaired. I can chew nicotine gum for the rest of my life and nothing will happen, whereas if I started to drink, I would be functionally impaired AND possibly end up with cirrhosis.
I do agree that a doctor should think twice about prescribing habit forming medications to people with an addictive personality. I take it then that those same precautions should be taken for people who, say overeat?
I do agree that a doctor should think twice about prescribing habit forming medications to people with an addictive personality. I take it then that those same precautions should be taken for people who, say overeat?
DazzleYou: nicotine is a drug and people who are smokers are addicted to it.
This same person who says they are a smoker, or an alcoholic are predisposed to addictions and a doctor worth his/her weight will think very seriously about prescribing pain or sleep medications that are habit forming.
This same person who says they are a smoker, or an alcoholic are predisposed to addictions and a doctor worth his/her weight will think very seriously about prescribing pain or sleep medications that are habit forming.
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You know what we call it in business? "profit maximization" (I want to put a laughing emoticon in here, but it's actually not funny in the context of health care).
pretzelman: this is all about the medical/insurance lobbyists trying to get out of paying on claims. Nothing more
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Quite.
Disorders, syndromes, etc.
It's easy to quantify something if you can classify it. All we know anymore is quantification. Once you manage to quantify something, you can manipulate it any way you please.
You know, I think that in the beginning there was order. Sort of a natural order. We managed to turn it into chaos.
Disorders, syndromes, etc.
It's easy to quantify something if you can classify it. All we know anymore is quantification. Once you manage to quantify something, you can manipulate it any way you please.
You know, I think that in the beginning there was order. Sort of a natural order. We managed to turn it into chaos.
Tumpa: According to researchers, the entire earth is disorders. Kind of like Greek mythology, where at the beginning, there was only chaos.
Tags for everything nowadays.
Disorder throughout your life and then some tag for why you become deceased. No one dies of old age anymore....
Tags for everything nowadays.
Disorder throughout your life and then some tag for why you become deceased. No one dies of old age anymore....
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rusty_knight: My definition of dying of old age is that you die of cancer - cancer is merely the abnormal reproduction of cells and as you get older and older and cells replicate themselves only 99.99999999 percent accurately the tiny abberations gradually build up and then you get all worn out.
Yup, you heard it first here folks......
OLD AGE = CANCER!
Yup, you heard it first here folks......
OLD AGE = CANCER!
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According to any interpretation you want, everything is a 'non-psychotic mental disorder'. And, even if you don't smoke you can contract lung cancer; conversely, you may not die of lung cancer, even if you smoke a pack a day. Passive smoking does not explain this phenomenon, and therefore is not a scientific certainty. Come to think of it, neither is smoking. It seems, just plain breathing can kill you. What the hell is in the air we breathe? The slow build up of pollutants that we breathe from the day we are born, has never been a serious arena of study at all.
Remember to 'not believe the hype'. I may be depriving a non-smoker of clean air if I smoke around them - but, the last time I was told off by a non-smoker for 'downwind smoke', she and her 2 year old child were a metre and a half from a main road! Where's this lung cancer coming from?
I agree completely with an earlier poster who revealed that all this is an insurance scam of some sort to raise money. Why stop at smoking? Why not meat eaters? Why not regular alcohol consumers? Why not Type A personalities? Why not Risk takers, who cross the street in front of cars with impunity? Why not bungie jumpers? Why not parachutists? Where exctly can you draw the line? Anywhere, it seems.
good thread
Remember to 'not believe the hype'. I may be depriving a non-smoker of clean air if I smoke around them - but, the last time I was told off by a non-smoker for 'downwind smoke', she and her 2 year old child were a metre and a half from a main road! Where's this lung cancer coming from?
I agree completely with an earlier poster who revealed that all this is an insurance scam of some sort to raise money. Why stop at smoking? Why not meat eaters? Why not regular alcohol consumers? Why not Type A personalities? Why not Risk takers, who cross the street in front of cars with impunity? Why not bungie jumpers? Why not parachutists? Where exctly can you draw the line? Anywhere, it seems.
good thread
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"The same should apply to both loud music and smoking: "Have it if you want it, just keep it yourself and don't inflict it on others.""
Agree with most of the sentiments expressed here - but have you noticed that, almost everything we can do, can be a problem for someone?! I personally don't like people farting at me and thinking its funny (although I think when I do it, it is). If you want to fart, don't do it near me - and then complain about my smoking - the whole process of releasing methane into the atmosphere will kill me before the smoking does. Incidentally, most non-smokers as well. I have had the 'smell' discussion many times with unsuspecting non-smokers who will then chastise me about smoking; rattle off unsusbstantiated statistics (damned statistics!), and not see the difference, or the similarity.
At some point, the 'don't inflict it upon others' thing reaches a crisis, where you do end up saying, 'well, I can't do that, and I can't do that. What can I do?'
The whole human race will need to understand that we are all in this boat together. It takes all types to populate the globe, and we must respect and nurture the legacy we are leaving our children. This has to encompass all parts of our lives. Physical, spiritual and mental.
cheers
Agree with most of the sentiments expressed here - but have you noticed that, almost everything we can do, can be a problem for someone?! I personally don't like people farting at me and thinking its funny (although I think when I do it, it is). If you want to fart, don't do it near me - and then complain about my smoking - the whole process of releasing methane into the atmosphere will kill me before the smoking does. Incidentally, most non-smokers as well. I have had the 'smell' discussion many times with unsuspecting non-smokers who will then chastise me about smoking; rattle off unsusbstantiated statistics (damned statistics!), and not see the difference, or the similarity.
At some point, the 'don't inflict it upon others' thing reaches a crisis, where you do end up saying, 'well, I can't do that, and I can't do that. What can I do?'
The whole human race will need to understand that we are all in this boat together. It takes all types to populate the globe, and we must respect and nurture the legacy we are leaving our children. This has to encompass all parts of our lives. Physical, spiritual and mental.
cheers
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As a recent quitter, since 1st February, I have to say that I agree with a lot of the posts made by smokers here. I have been saying the same for 30 years in order to justify my habit!
Look, I´m delighted that I have stopped smoking, and I feel fantastic, and proud of myself and my fellow CS´ers in the same boat..... see the EU No smoking thread.....but I´m not going to preach, I hated that when I was a smoker.
I live in Spain where smoking is still very popular and still permitted in most bars and restaurants. It doesn´t bother me, the only difference now is that now I occasionally look at smokers and think yuk, or I´m glad I´m not you any longer!!! It is unhealthy as we all know, smelly, but it looks ugly too, I´ve only now realised.
Giving up smoking has made me aware of healthy living in general, so I´ve upped my exercise program and changed my diet, not radically because living in Spain means my diet is very healthy anyway. I´ve just cut down on carbs and drink more water, that´s all.
Nobody in Spain eats twinkies btw! In fact my students often ask me why so many people in America are so fat. Some have visited the USA for business or pleasure and tell me they have never seen such obese people. It is a real shock for them.
Look, I´m delighted that I have stopped smoking, and I feel fantastic, and proud of myself and my fellow CS´ers in the same boat..... see the EU No smoking thread.....but I´m not going to preach, I hated that when I was a smoker.
I live in Spain where smoking is still very popular and still permitted in most bars and restaurants. It doesn´t bother me, the only difference now is that now I occasionally look at smokers and think yuk, or I´m glad I´m not you any longer!!! It is unhealthy as we all know, smelly, but it looks ugly too, I´ve only now realised.
Giving up smoking has made me aware of healthy living in general, so I´ve upped my exercise program and changed my diet, not radically because living in Spain means my diet is very healthy anyway. I´ve just cut down on carbs and drink more water, that´s all.
Nobody in Spain eats twinkies btw! In fact my students often ask me why so many people in America are so fat. Some have visited the USA for business or pleasure and tell me they have never seen such obese people. It is a real shock for them.
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dont we all have sort of addictions be it smoking drinkin gambling buyin shoes shoppin certain foods?????????/
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I would completely object to being characterised as having a 'Non psychotic Mental Disorder' because I smoke.......being characterised as havin it for other things yes.......
Ireland was the first country in the EU to bring in a non smoking policy and it was done intelligently, because it was brought in to protect workers............so any workplace suddenly becomes a non smoking area...........Psychiatric institutions and prisons were not included.
I think a lot more health problems in our Country is caused by Alcohol yet its smoking that gets hammered. The tax on the product is outrageous and if something is that bad...........ban it completely...........and alcohol.........
I do understand the law and the reasons for it but I think it's double standards..............IMO
Ireland was the first country in the EU to bring in a non smoking policy and it was done intelligently, because it was brought in to protect workers............so any workplace suddenly becomes a non smoking area...........Psychiatric institutions and prisons were not included.
I think a lot more health problems in our Country is caused by Alcohol yet its smoking that gets hammered. The tax on the product is outrageous and if something is that bad...........ban it completely...........and alcohol.........
I do understand the law and the reasons for it but I think it's double standards..............IMO
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I certainly think we do. Buying shoes would probably qualify you to have a behavioral disorder, rather than a mental disorder 
scorpiosiren: dont we all have sort of addictions be it smoking drinkin gambling buyin shoes shoppin certain foods?????????/
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I've given quitting a lot of thought. If I took advantage of the aides that are available and mustered a lot of self-discipline, I could quit, but I don't want to. I enjoy smoking. It isn't an excuse. I'm fully aware of what I'm doing, as well as that the craving is evidence of the addiction to nicotine.
The one thing I will do is I will stop smoking regular cigarettes that are loaded with tar and preservatives and go for straight, unperfumed tobacco instead. The nicotine causes no harm (in fact, it is given to Alzheimers patients in the form of patches and is proven to improve memory function). Smokers tend not to get dementia like non-smokers do. The only trouble with smoking is the smoke, but nicotine in and by itself isn't a problem really.
Like you, I exercise, I eat reasonably healthy (no junk food, twinkies, almost no meat, etc.) and if I have as much as 2 glasses of wine a year, then that's nothing short of a miracle. In fact, I just had a physical and I'm completely healthy - in better shape than many people my age. My doctor and dentists don't even argue with me .... so I think that the damage caused by smoking is very much an individual thing. I'd be more concerned with a person with a family history of heart disease passing away at 50 than a smoker, to be quite honest.... but then, I'm not a doctor... though it would be interesting to hear where they'd place the greater risk in comparison.
There's a funny twinkie story. Perhaps you've read it. A chemistry teacher in the US took a twinkie and put it on top of a cabinet when he first started teaching at that particular school... 30 years ago. When his last class graduated (right before he retired), he took the twinkie down to see what happened to it... the darn thing was still as fresh as the day he put it up there... Maybe if we all ate more twinkies we could preserve ourselves forever
The one thing I will do is I will stop smoking regular cigarettes that are loaded with tar and preservatives and go for straight, unperfumed tobacco instead. The nicotine causes no harm (in fact, it is given to Alzheimers patients in the form of patches and is proven to improve memory function). Smokers tend not to get dementia like non-smokers do. The only trouble with smoking is the smoke, but nicotine in and by itself isn't a problem really.
Like you, I exercise, I eat reasonably healthy (no junk food, twinkies, almost no meat, etc.) and if I have as much as 2 glasses of wine a year, then that's nothing short of a miracle. In fact, I just had a physical and I'm completely healthy - in better shape than many people my age. My doctor and dentists don't even argue with me
.... so I think that the damage caused by smoking is very much an individual thing. I'd be more concerned with a person with a family history of heart disease passing away at 50 than a smoker, to be quite honest.... but then, I'm not a doctor... though it would be interesting to hear where they'd place the greater risk in comparison.There's a funny twinkie story. Perhaps you've read it. A chemistry teacher in the US took a twinkie and put it on top of a cabinet when he first started teaching at that particular school... 30 years ago. When his last class graduated (right before he retired), he took the twinkie down to see what happened to it... the darn thing was still as fresh as the day he put it up there... Maybe if we all ate more twinkies we could preserve ourselves forever
Jan1305: As a recent quitter, since 1st February, I have to say that I agree with a lot of the posts made by smokers here. I have been saying the same for 30 years in order to justify my habit!
Look, I´m delighted that I have stopped smoking, and I feel fantastic, and proud of myself and my fellow CS´ers in the same boat..... see the EU No smoking thread.....but I´m not going to preach, I hated that when I was a smoker.
I live in Spain where smoking is still very popular and still permitted in most bars and restaurants. It doesn´t bother me, the only difference now is that now I occasionally look at smokers and think yuk, or I´m glad I´m not you any longer!!! It is unhealthy as we all know, smelly, but it looks ugly too, I´ve only now realised.
Giving up smoking has made me aware of healthy living in general, so I´ve upped my exercise program and changed my diet, not radically because living in Spain means my diet is very healthy anyway. I´ve just cut down on carbs and drink more water, that´s all.
Nobody in Spain eats twinkies btw! In fact my students often ask me why so many people in America are so fat. Some have visited the USA for business or pleasure and tell me they have never seen such obese people. It is a real shock for them.
Look, I´m delighted that I have stopped smoking, and I feel fantastic, and proud of myself and my fellow CS´ers in the same boat..... see the EU No smoking thread.....but I´m not going to preach, I hated that when I was a smoker.
I live in Spain where smoking is still very popular and still permitted in most bars and restaurants. It doesn´t bother me, the only difference now is that now I occasionally look at smokers and think yuk, or I´m glad I´m not you any longer!!! It is unhealthy as we all know, smelly, but it looks ugly too, I´ve only now realised.
Giving up smoking has made me aware of healthy living in general, so I´ve upped my exercise program and changed my diet, not radically because living in Spain means my diet is very healthy anyway. I´ve just cut down on carbs and drink more water, that´s all.
Nobody in Spain eats twinkies btw! In fact my students often ask me why so many people in America are so fat. Some have visited the USA for business or pleasure and tell me they have never seen such obese people. It is a real shock for them.
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Just thought I'd correct this - I accidentally posted this as a quote from someone else - somehow it ended up with my name on it.
I actually think there is a far worse issue here - and it relates to respect for our fellow beings - animals included. There really is no-one who can claim to have not infringed on anyones right to anything. The modern world has availed us of a limited number of 'friendly' pursuits. We think we have choice, but there is always someone ready to 'killjoy'. If we lived our lives tiptoeing around other people, we would never get anything done - live, for instance.
I researched the 'smoking' thing, and could not find a definitive study, anywhere, which positively (scientifically) proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that smoking was the sole cause of lung cancer - or any other cancer for that matter. I'm not saying it doesn't contribute, but, scientifically speaking, 100% of smokers do not die of lung cancer 100% of the time. To claim this is, fudging the statistics - and lets face it, it wouldn't be the first time statistics were fudged! To add to this, there is a little anomoly of non-smokers getting lung cancer.
There is clearly more than one toxic substance at work here - but comparative studies are extremely rare to find!
The one thing we all do, smokers and non-smokers alike is breathe in through our noses and into our lungs. All I am saying is - what else are we breathing that gives us lung cancer?
Cancer does not limit itself to one part of the body, depending on what we do - it clearly goes to the weakest area - which is why non-smokers get lung cancer. Second hand smoke is a convenient cop out. What are non-smokers who get lung cancer breathing into thier lungs - and if non smokers are so healthy (do not smoke) why is the cancer choosing the lungs to reside in?
I may be completely wrong eh!
cheers
I actually think there is a far worse issue here - and it relates to respect for our fellow beings - animals included. There really is no-one who can claim to have not infringed on anyones right to anything. The modern world has availed us of a limited number of 'friendly' pursuits. We think we have choice, but there is always someone ready to 'killjoy'. If we lived our lives tiptoeing around other people, we would never get anything done - live, for instance.
I researched the 'smoking' thing, and could not find a definitive study, anywhere, which positively (scientifically) proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that smoking was the sole cause of lung cancer - or any other cancer for that matter. I'm not saying it doesn't contribute, but, scientifically speaking, 100% of smokers do not die of lung cancer 100% of the time. To claim this is, fudging the statistics - and lets face it, it wouldn't be the first time statistics were fudged! To add to this, there is a little anomoly of non-smokers getting lung cancer.
There is clearly more than one toxic substance at work here - but comparative studies are extremely rare to find!
The one thing we all do, smokers and non-smokers alike is breathe in through our noses and into our lungs. All I am saying is - what else are we breathing that gives us lung cancer?
Cancer does not limit itself to one part of the body, depending on what we do - it clearly goes to the weakest area - which is why non-smokers get lung cancer. Second hand smoke is a convenient cop out. What are non-smokers who get lung cancer breathing into thier lungs - and if non smokers are so healthy (do not smoke) why is the cancer choosing the lungs to reside in?
I may be completely wrong eh!
cheers
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Addictions such as smoking, alcohol, gambling... and eating disorders, including binge eating, are included in the DSM-1V-Revised, an international medical reference with coded mental health disorders. For a couple of years now, a doctor or psychiatrist can now refer the patient to a psychologist under the Federal Govt Better Access and Better Outcomes initiatives. This allows a person to be eligible for up to 12-18 sessions per calendar year, with reviews, with rebates from Medicare. Members of the public are voluntarily presenting to their doctors, or else the referral is initiated by their doctor or psychiatrist. This can include children as well as adults. It does open up pandora's box, when later applying for eg life insurance etc. But then this has always been a potential issue for people on Third Party Stress Claims, or work related mental health 'injury'.
Frankly, insurers just need to get onto CS, and the lot of us could be tainted with the 'addiction' brush!!! Scary thought!
Frankly, insurers just need to get onto CS, and the lot of us could be tainted with the 'addiction' brush!!!
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jessejess47: I agree with what has been said , however really tobacco is a gateway drug IMO
Sorry to rock your boat but thats nonsense.Even cannabis is not a gatewaydrug and it had been proven by state authorities in Holland.Could give you the link but you cant read dutch anyway i think.Just take my word for it.Been there done it all.
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And the definition of an addiction is that it dictates your life.With cigarettes this is not the case it's just a habit.A bad habit maybe but to call it an addiction is out of bounds.
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rodolpho: And the definition of an addiction is that it dictates your life.With cigarettes this is not the case it's just a habit.A bad habit maybe but to call it an addiction is out of bounds.
Then I am not addicted
For some it's real addiction, for some not, I do not have a desire to smoke in my appartment, but when I'm outside, I do it, though do not wish it, it happens automatically
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rodolpho: And the definition of an addiction is that it dictates your life.With cigarettes this is not the case it's just a habit.A bad habit maybe but to call it an addiction is out of bounds.
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Tags for everything nowadays.
Disorder throughout your life and then some tag for why you become deceased. No one dies of old age anymore....
My definition of dying of old age is that you die of cancer - cancer is merely the abnormal reproduction of cells and as you get older and older and cells replicate themselves only 99.99999999 percent accurately the tiny abberations gradually build up and then you get all worn out.
Yup, you heard it first here folks......
OLD AGE = CANCER!