President Obama's trip......did it accomplish any thing? (122)
rusty_knight: Bush lacked the ability to inspire people - why knock a man who can?
Inspire them to what?
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ttom500: So if he requested additional European assistance for Afghanistan...in a decent and nice way...not demanding or twisting any ones arm there....why only 5000 for training police and a couple of F-16?
I am not condemning the additional force level given, Rusty. Please understand that. Any additional help is appreciated. But we are headed into the Summer season....when the Taliban make their offenses. Additional NATO forces for that summer time offense(s)..is sorely needed. Those additional NATO force can help secure many of the non Taliban town and villages. Keep a lot of friendly Afghans alive if those offenses occurs.
I don't mind the US being the heavy combat fighter here. It was the US struck on 9/11. Just want NATO and Europe to show more resolve in this fight. Resolve means more man power commitment.
We (Europe and the US)lose in Afghanistan or even get substantial bent in the country....e.g. some ceasefire arrangement like there is in Pakistan.....then every radical Islamic cleric in the world points to it....just like they did went Russia pulled out....and says the west can be beaten.
That is not good for Europe or the US.
I am not condemning the additional force level given, Rusty. Please understand that. Any additional help is appreciated. But we are headed into the Summer season....when the Taliban make their offenses. Additional NATO forces for that summer time offense(s)..is sorely needed. Those additional NATO force can help secure many of the non Taliban town and villages. Keep a lot of friendly Afghans alive if those offenses occurs.
I don't mind the US being the heavy combat fighter here. It was the US struck on 9/11. Just want NATO and Europe to show more resolve in this fight. Resolve means more man power commitment.
We (Europe and the US)lose in Afghanistan or even get substantial bent in the country....e.g. some ceasefire arrangement like there is in Pakistan.....then every radical Islamic cleric in the world points to it....just like they did went Russia pulled out....and says the west can be beaten.
That is not good for Europe or the US.
The Collective Security Treaty is also able to help NATO forces several times offered a help in this undertaking by a cooperatie fight againts drug-traffic coming from Afghanistan and by this mean shut down Taliban's money source, but NATO keeps ignoring this offer... And it could free Europe from this posion
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jetdevil2001: I hope he will be clever enough to cooperate with Russia and not rush into provocative words as did chosen by you preious government. The thing is that both sides have their own positions but it is possible to overcome them. But US goerment seems to continue the sam way, a few weeks ago an american general John Cartwright was send to Georgia to talk about rearming and preparing of a new strong, able to attack army....
Provocations are going on... or...
Provocations are going on... or...
If this Cartwright went to Georgia on such a mission. Guess what?
Is on Presdeint Obama's orders to so.
Honestly this sounds more like a 'fact finding trip'. To find out the status of the Georgia military, including its armament level and its manpower status.
While such fact finding trips can mean a arms deal or other agreements in a mutual defense treaty......all that takes time
to assess.
So I would not be thinking that the Georgians will anytime soon be over powering the Russian forces in the country.
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jetdevil2001: That will never happen
Never say Never - truth and history are often stranger than fiction............ who thought the USA would have either a woman as President or a guy whose dad was born in Kenya as ther next President?
Would you have thought 20 years ago that Poland would now be a member of NATO? Totally crazy idea...... Russia would never let that happen!
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jetdevil2001: The Collective Security Treaty is also able to help NATO forces several times offered a help in this undertaking by a cooperatie fight againts drug-traffic coming from Afghanistan and by this mean shut down Taliban's money source, but NATO keeps ignoring this offer... And it could free Europe from this posion
Good point............
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rusty_knight: Never say Never - truth and history are often stranger than fiction............ who thought the USA would have either a woman as President or a guy whose dad was born in Kenya as ther next President?
Would you have thought 20 years ago that Poland would now be a member of NATO? Totally crazy idea...... Russia would never let that happen!
Would you have thought 20 years ago that Poland would now be a member of NATO? Totally crazy idea...... Russia would never let that happen!
First of all, you know why NATO was founded, second it will be too expensive. Russia and all CIS countries have their military standarts quite different from NATO's, then Russia will have to fully rearm its troops by NATO standartised weapons, I can't imagine a russian soldier with M16...
and Russian people mostly treat with negatively, as, if you are a member any military structures, it would mean you have definite you must follow them. let's take Afghanistan for instance, Russia will never again step into this land to war
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Indyfella: So is it really all about Europe and screw us then?
How many troops did Obama inspire Europe to send to Afganistan?
Be careful Rusty...it sounds like you've read one to many of Dude's posts.
How many troops did Obama inspire Europe to send to Afganistan?
Be careful Rusty...it sounds like you've read one to many of Dude's posts.
Don't forget you killed plenty of my countrymen in Iraq with your 'friendly fire' and your guys didn't even get disciplined - what's a few British lives to you?
We've been your staunchest allies (the Brits) often at the expense of being EU citizens and taken YOUR side when we maybe should have been more pro Europe.
How dare you snear at me or other Europeans when we have died for you and your folk have also died for us.
Get off your high horse old man - your attitude is 'history' and stinks!
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rusty_knight: Good post above - a real test of Obama's diplomatic skills qwhen faced with leaders who certainly don't have the same motivations........... he needs to reassert common interests and also show that the expansion of NATO doesn't have to be a bad thing for the former dictating power of the Warsaw Pact.
We'd have never imagined some of the countries being NATO members who are now NATO members - maybe Russia could be persuaded to join, but I believe that there is something so proud in the Russian culture that they'd never accept being anything but being top dog in any military alliance.
We'd have never imagined some of the countries being NATO members who are now NATO members - maybe Russia could be persuaded to join, but I believe that there is something so proud in the Russian culture that they'd never accept being anything but being top dog in any military alliance.
That is a really good point, Rusty.
Yes seeing eastern European countries being admitted into NATO....with Ukraine and Bellarussia applying....has to send
a message to Russia. And concern them.
I also think that you have it right. President Obama has to convince Russia this not such a bad thing or a security problem.
Not an easy task.
I learned this the other day. Russia considers all of Ukraine to part of Russian 'military security airspace'. That it uses its long range radars over the Ukraine as part of its security airspace against both missile and aircraft attack.
So? When the Russians talk of the radars of the anti ballistic missiles in eastern Europe being to invasive and threatening. Seems like they are doing the same to the Ukraines to the south.
It is like......well we can, but you cannot. We can have a military radar ring around us....but you cannot have one around you.
Someone please get out the map.....make the borders of Russia 4-5 inches wide. We can then all have military radar rings for security. Ring a Ding Ding......
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rusty_knight: Don't forget you killed plenty of my countrymen in Iraq with your 'friendly fire' and your guys didn't even get disciplined - what's a few British lives to you?
We've been your staunchest allies (the Brits) often at the expense of being EU citizens and taken YOUR side when we maybe should have been more pro Europe.
How dare you snear at me or other Europeans when we have died for you and your folk have also died for us.
Get off your high horse old man - your attitude is 'history' and stinks!
We've been your staunchest allies (the Brits) often at the expense of being EU citizens and taken YOUR side when we maybe should have been more pro Europe.
How dare you snear at me or other Europeans when we have died for you and your folk have also died for us.
Get off your high horse old man - your attitude is 'history' and stinks!
That's an interesting perspective. Very intesting. Do you want to really go down that path?
I really don't give a flying f-ck what you think of my attitude.
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jetdevil2001: First of all, you know why NATO was founded, second it will be too expensive. Russia and all CIS countries have their military standarts quite different from NATO's, then Russia will have to fully rearm its troops by NATO standartised weapons, I can't imagine a russian soldier with M16...
and Russian people mostly treat with negatively, as, if you are a member any military structures, it would mean you have definite you must follow them. let's take Afghanistan for instance, Russia will never again step into this land to war
and Russian people mostly treat with negatively, as, if you are a member any military structures, it would mean you have definite you must follow them. let's take Afghanistan for instance, Russia will never again step into this land to war
You're an intelligent young man, and you saw through my cunning plan.
You are right that in NATO we try and standardise equipment............... my cunning and evil plan was to get Russia into NATO and rearm them with NATO weapons but have all the ammunition made in Brussels.......... and, secretly, we'd send them all Belgium chocolates instead of ammunition and then we could attack them at will.
However, you saw through my plan and it is now doomed to failure.
Back to the drawing board!
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Indyfella: That's an interesting perspective. Very intesting. Do you want to really go down that path?
I really don't give a flying f-ck what you think of my attitude.
I really don't give a flying f-ck what you think of my attitude.
Seems that way.
I care about your attitude though, as I perceive it as a problem to the future relationship of our two countries if your attitude is representative of a negative minority determined to cut off their collective noses to spite the USA's face.
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rusty_knight: Seems that way.
I care about your attitude though, as I perceive it as a problem to the future relationship of our two countries if your attitude is representative of a negative minority determined to cut off their collective noses to spite the USA's face.
I care about your attitude though, as I perceive it as a problem to the future relationship of our two countries if your attitude is representative of a negative minority determined to cut off their collective noses to spite the USA's face.
(inject:
Americans DO appreciate any and all sacrifices made by British soldiers. That will never be forgotten by patriotic Americans.
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rusty_knight: Don't forget you killed plenty of my countrymen in Iraq with your 'friendly fire' and your guys didn't even get disciplined - what's a few British lives to you?
We've been your staunchest allies (the Brits) often at the expense of being EU citizens and taken YOUR side when we maybe should have been more pro Europe.
How dare you snear at me or other Europeans when we have died for you and your folk have also died for us.
Get off your high horse old man - your attitude is 'history' and stinks!
We've been your staunchest allies (the Brits) often at the expense of being EU citizens and taken YOUR side when we maybe should have been more pro Europe.
How dare you snear at me or other Europeans when we have died for you and your folk have also died for us.
Get off your high horse old man - your attitude is 'history' and stinks!
Let me be peace maker here some Rusty.
I listened (post action video tape) to a couple of USAF A-10 Warhog pilots that got a friendly target on one day. The men's voices told their pain when they realized what had happened.
The friendly was not NATO or Brit...was US. But it could have been any of them.
No one goes out there to have a friendly fire incident occur, Rusty. You know that.
You also know that when an international friendly fire occurs, that government and military gets to participate in the post action investigation. All is opened to them and nothing is suppressed.
If there is one honest and totally sincere apology that should be made, it is when a international friendly fire occurs to the men's families, to their units, and to their gov't and people. jmo
You have mine for the lose of countrymen.
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Indyfella: (inject:
Americans DO appreciate any and all sacrifices made by British soldiers. That will never be forgotten by patriotic Americans.
Americans DO appreciate any and all sacrifices made by British soldiers. That will never be forgotten by patriotic Americans.
I'd say that if you are indeed one of those patriotic Americans you should give your democratically elected President a chance even if your wealth of experience and knowledge makes you feel cynical about his ability to change anything.
Heck - he already has changed opinions of millions of people about the USA!..............
Literally millions of people have opened up their hearts and minds to your country because your new President has changed perceptions - how can you knock a man who has put your country in a higher world standing that it was just a few weeks ago?
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rusty_knight: I'd say that if you are indeed one of those patriotic Americans you should give your democratically elected President a chance even if your wealth of experience and knowledge makes you feel cynical about his ability to change anything.
Heck - he already has changed opinions of millions of people about the USA!..............
Literally millions of people have opened up their hearts and minds to your country because your new President has changed perceptions - how can you knock a man who has put your country in a higher world standing that it was just a few weeks ago?
Heck - he already has changed opinions of millions of people about the USA!..............
Literally millions of people have opened up their hearts and minds to your country because your new President has changed perceptions - how can you knock a man who has put your country in a higher world standing that it was just a few weeks ago?
Let's put it this way...I don't care for any president who goes the route of "blame America first"...for anything and everything wrong in the world. That's how it's being interpreted here...by a whole lot of citizens. If that has to be done to get "others" to love us...I'll pass.
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rusty_knight: I'd say that if you are indeed one of those patriotic Americans you should give your democratically elected President a chance even if your wealth of experience and knowledge makes you feel cynical about his ability to change anything.
Heck - he already has changed opinions of millions of people about the USA!..............
Literally millions of people have opened up their hearts and minds to your country because your new President has changed perceptions - how can you knock a man who has put your country in a higher world standing that it was just a few weeks ago?
Heck - he already has changed opinions of millions of people about the USA!..............
Literally millions of people have opened up their hearts and minds to your country because your new President has changed perceptions - how can you knock a man who has put your country in a higher world standing that it was just a few weeks ago?
Oh, I've given Obama much more time than Dems gave Bush when he was elected. They were on a total "discredit and disable" from the 1st day he was elected.
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Indyfella: Oh, I've given Obama much more time than Dems gave Bush when he was elected. They were on a total "discredit and disable" from the 1st day he was elected.
'given' = past tense.
So you've already made up your mind he's a loser?
You're not proud of the fact that he is giving your country good PR?
Oh well, I am sure you can justify your stance to yourself and that's all that really matters, isn't it?
By the way I supported Bush re. Iraq; even after there were no WMD found I still believed he'd done the right thing.......... just the post war planiing was total crap and I was 'crying' when I saw troops being shipped out so soon after the invasion phase succeeded when you actually needed at least five times more troops to win the peace after the short conventional war was over.
Bush wasn't all bad, but he was not a good communicator and he lacked charisma. He was elected not once but twice by the USA electorate and his unpopularity did your country a lot of damage on the world stage.
I believe he did what he thought was right; the fact that he made mistakes kinda eluded his conscious mind - he was humble enough to say he'd made mistakes but when asked in an interview he couldn't think of a single example!
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rusty_knight: 'given' = past tense.
So you've already made up your mind he's a loser?
You're not proud of the fact that he is giving your country good PR?
Oh well, I am sure you can justify your stance to yourself and that's all that really matters, isn't it?
By the way I supported Bush re. Iraq; even after there were no WMD found I still believed he'd done the right thing.......... just the post war planiing was total crap and I was 'crying' when I saw troops being shipped out so soon after the invasion phase succeeded when you actually needed at least five times more troops to win the peace after the short conventional war was over.
Bush wasn't all bad, but he was not a good communicator and he lacked charisma. He was elected not once but twice by the USA electorate and his unpopularity did your country a lot of damage on the world stage.
I believe he did what he thought was right; the fact that he made mistakes kinda eluded his conscious mind - he was humble enough to say he'd made mistakes but when asked in an interview he couldn't think of a single example!
So you've already made up your mind he's a loser?
You're not proud of the fact that he is giving your country good PR?
Oh well, I am sure you can justify your stance to yourself and that's all that really matters, isn't it?
By the way I supported Bush re. Iraq; even after there were no WMD found I still believed he'd done the right thing.......... just the post war planiing was total crap and I was 'crying' when I saw troops being shipped out so soon after the invasion phase succeeded when you actually needed at least five times more troops to win the peace after the short conventional war was over.
Bush wasn't all bad, but he was not a good communicator and he lacked charisma. He was elected not once but twice by the USA electorate and his unpopularity did your country a lot of damage on the world stage.
I believe he did what he thought was right; the fact that he made mistakes kinda eluded his conscious mind - he was humble enough to say he'd made mistakes but when asked in an interview he couldn't think of a single example!
If I didn't like his stand on issues before he was elected, why would I change? I don't believe he's what America is about.
Bush made a lot of mistakes...no doubt. We agree. Obama's making them too...
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Indyfella: If I didn't like his stand on issues before he was elected, why would I change? I don't believe he's what America is about.
Bush made a lot of mistakes...no doubt. We agree. Obama's making them too...
Bush made a lot of mistakes...no doubt. We agree. Obama's making them too...
Well, let's agree that we all make mistakes.........it's gone midnight here, and I have a lot to do tomorrow as a certain young lady is flying out to see me here on Good Friday (for 9 days woohoo!) and I'll be in trouble if the villa isn't spotless when she gets here!
Women!
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