2012 ??? -- Dates In Persepctive (249)
Galactic_bodhi: My Timeline is on a Deadline?
Only if you're in the frontline. Move quietly to the back of the line and let things resolve them selves.
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MGaff:
On the contrary, l don't use karma as an e-motive force. l use it as a tool,
On the contrary, l don't use karma as an e-motive force. l use it as a tool,
How does the tool come into existence?
The contrary lies in your assertion. 
You and SF should take up dancing, it might improve your agility.
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bohdiprana: How does the tool come into existence? The contrary lies in your assertion.
You and SF should take up dancing, it might improve your agility.
You and SF should take up dancing, it might improve your agility.
Re-phrase the question?
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MGaff: Re-phrase the question?
I think Prana wants to whack off while watching us dance?
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MGaff: Now you're just being pedantic!
On the contrary, l don't use karma as an e-motive force. l use it as a tool, to unravel and the numerous repeating patterns that exist within my experience of this illusion.
On the contrary, l don't use karma as an e-motive force. l use it as a tool, to unravel and the numerous repeating patterns that exist within my experience of this illusion.
bohdiprana: How does the tool come into existence? The contrary lies in your assertion.
In response to:
Re-phrase the question?
Re-phrase the question?
It is as simple a question as it can be.
How do you create the tool (which you call karma) if not without your energy-motion. It is therefore an emotive or emoted tool.
You then use it as you say to create other emotive pathways defining this karma 'tool' as it suits your belief.
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StressFree: I think Prana wants to whack off while watching us dance?
You world is really quite special.
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bohdiprana: You world is really quite special.
Speaking of repeating patterns, regardless what we choose to call them. l find myself again in a position where l must recognise that this is a fruitless dialogue. Like l already said l'm quite happy to call it teeter-totter...
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MGaff: Speaking of repeating patterns, regardless what we choose to call them. l find myself again in a position where l must recognise that this is a fruitless dialogue. Like l already said l'm quite happy to call it teeter-totter...
detach
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MGaff: l have...
no you haven't.
don't not resist 
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Love and Peace...
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bohdiprana:
As consciousness, we already 'know', we are already 'wise'. You just don' 'think' you are because we're veiled from our higher selves. ( a part of the contract of 3rd D experience) Your assessment assumes that we incarnate here, totally ignorant. Where did we get the wisdom, and the knowledge to incarnate in the first place? You see??? We don't come here to learn, we don't come here for lessons, we are already wise, already full of knowledge. So what does that leave us with as a reason to be here? .... to experience our knowledge in the physical.
As consciousness, we already 'know', we are already 'wise'. You just don' 'think' you are because we're veiled from our higher selves. ( a part of the contract of 3rd D experience) Your assessment assumes that we incarnate here, totally ignorant. Where did we get the wisdom, and the knowledge to incarnate in the first place? You see??? We don't come here to learn, we don't come here for lessons, we are already wise, already full of knowledge. So what does that leave us with as a reason to be here? .... to experience our knowledge in the physical.
Now, this is my main disagreement here Prana. What you are saying goes against what depth and evolutionary psychology postulates as well as what I have experienced and observed regarding the the conscious state/consciousness and the subconscious/unconsciousness. It also goes against what basically all the religions and spiritualities postulate as well.
The basic notion of an unconscious, as well as the idea that our behavior is influenced by unconscious motivations, is very old and well established by pioneers like Jung and Freud.
Carl Jung, in his book Memories, Dreams, Reflections (1963), states that the unconscious helps by communicating things to us, or making figurative allusion. It has other ways, too, of informing us of things which by all logic we could not possibly know.
So sorry for the drawn out post in regards to this, but your assertion that consciousness and our conscious state of being already knows and is already wise is a bold claim to make. I agree that we are disconnected to our higher selves or "veiled" as you say, but that does not mean that we can't get in touch with our higher selves (you know the drills). However, our higher selves (where objective wisdom and knowledge is) can be found in our individual subconscious and our collective subconscious (through archetypes).
And as we live, we seek knowledge, we learn our lessons gradually, and we combine that with our experiences and peel away the outer layers of the indoctrinations and limited beliefs as we approach our true selves and higher selves. We can't do that unless we acquire knowledge, learn our lessons, and thus experience a different existence with our deeper and broader and higher consciousness. We are born into a world of limited belief systems that is said to challenge us from getting back to our true selves. And the signs are all there that we are moving towards that as a society, but it starts with every individual first and the faster it spreads, the better. So in that sense, the current collective consciousness is not as evolved or sophisticated or wise as you think. Think of all the robots who outnumber the tuned in ones---but the numbers are changing.
So you saying we didn't come here to learn our lessons and experience our journeys/theme and to just experience our knowledge sounds frightening if we are to consider the nature of our world and all the mentally and physically sick people that inhabit Earth. However, like I said in the last paragraph, there are encouraging signs that we are uplifting the veil and "going somewhere" and evolving. Consciousness is evolving, evolutionary psychology says we are evolving, and the array of spiritual groups suggest that we are evolving and in a state of transformation.
My definition of the subconscious is the part of the mind that takes care of the body and our conscious state. It regulates all the systems of the body and mind and the subconscious is the true all knowing part of something that has access to all information. It not only records everything that has ever happened to the person in this lifetime, but everything that has ever happened to them in all their past-lives, and existences in the spirit state. Some people may choose to call this part higher self, the oversoul, the collective unconscious, or God---all could be relating to the same thing under different names.
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StressFree: Now, this is my main disagreement here Prana. What you are saying goes against what depth and evolutionary psychology postulates as well as what I have experienced and observed regarding the the conscious state/consciousness and the subconscious/unconsciousness. It also goes against what basically all the religions and spiritualities postulate as well.
They want you to think there's a god and retribution, judgement something like karma lol ... comon man think... you're part of the illusion thinking here.... think outside the box.
In response to:
Carl Jung, in his book Memories, Dreams, Reflections (1963), states that the unconscious helps by communicating things to us, or making figurative allusion. It has other ways, too, of informing us of things which by all logic we could not possibly know.
Carl Jung, in his book Memories, Dreams, Reflections (1963), states that the unconscious helps by communicating things to us, or making figurative allusion. It has other ways, too, of informing us of things which by all logic we could not possibly know.
Agreed, with some caveats that are inconsequential at this point.
In response to:
So sorry for the drawn out post in regards to this, but your assertion that consciousness and our conscious state of being already knows and is already wise is a bold claim to make. I agree that we are disconnected to our higher selves or "veiled" as you say, but that does not mean that we can't get in touch with our higher selves (you know the drills). However, our higher selves (where objective wisdom and knowledge is) can be found in our individual subconscious and our collective subconscious (through archetypes).
So sorry for the drawn out post in regards to this, but your assertion that consciousness and our conscious state of being already knows and is already wise is a bold claim to make. I agree that we are disconnected to our higher selves or "veiled" as you say, but that does not mean that we can't get in touch with our higher selves (you know the drills). However, our higher selves (where objective wisdom and knowledge is) can be found in our individual subconscious and our collective subconscious (through archetypes).
Agreed again. I don't think I intimated this wasn't true. It is in fact where you find out, or become aware just how messed up the illusion is. (but for a reason that suits our experience) As you know I am a dedicated meditator. Doesn't mean I'm a monk or anything; but I know the more you raise your consciousness, the more truth confronts you.
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StressFree: first and the faster it spreads, the better. So in that sense, the current collective consciousness is not as evolved or sophisticated or wise as you think. Think of all the robots who outnumber the tuned in ones---but the numbers are changing.
It's not all that easy to alter years and years of mental conditioning provided by the illusion that has been buried in humanity.. change takes time, and maybe we don't have to.
In response to:
So you saying we didn't come here to learn our lessons and experience our journeys/theme and to just experience our knowledge sounds frightening oversoul, the collective unconscious, or God---all could be relating to the same thing under different names.
So you saying we didn't come here to learn our lessons and experience our journeys/theme and to just experience our knowledge sounds frightening oversoul, the collective unconscious, or God---all could be relating to the same thing under different names.
Think about it this way. Your consciousness can imagine/see any possible scenario; but it cannot physically experience it without a body. It knows how to make a body, knows an infinite number of scenarios to try out, it knows truths that the illusion hides from us ....so it already has the knowledge. The only missing knowledge is the experience, the journey in the physical, so in that sense you can call it knowledge.
I think we're fudging on words.
What you're calling lessons and learning is really, imo, the experience of the event in a much deeper sense of experience, really refining what you experience, making it more definable.
Is that a lesson or is it your consciousness enjoying the journey as deeply as it can? Finding every nook and cranny of the experience and feeling it out.
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bohdiprana: They want you to think there's a god and retribution, judgement something like karma lol ... comon man think... you're part of the illusion thinking here.... think outside the box.
I live outside the box
The point wasn't about the illusion or how they want to indoctrinate. The point is that there are universal threads in the religions and all the different disciplines of spirituality that point to getting in touch with your higher self which exists in the subconscious---only the labels are different.bohdiprana:
Agreed, with some caveats that are inconsequential at this point.
Agreed, with some caveats that are inconsequential at this point.
Well, it's okay to admit you were wrong. Nobody will think less of you. Don't take it personal, but you should be more careful and more "aware" before you present bold claims that go against what is empirically established. I have no problems with bold claims if there is reasonable merit and support behind them.
bohdiprana:
Agreed again. I don't think I intimated this wasn't true. It is in fact where you find out, or become aware just how messed up the illusion is. (but for a reason that suits our experience) As you know I am a dedicated meditator. Doesn't mean I'm a monk or anything; but I know the more you raise your consciousness, the more truth confronts you.
Agreed again. I don't think I intimated this wasn't true. It is in fact where you find out, or become aware just how messed up the illusion is. (but for a reason that suits our experience) As you know I am a dedicated meditator. Doesn't mean I'm a monk or anything; but I know the more you raise your consciousness, the more truth confronts you.
Well, that's why it was confusing because you made the statement that our consciousness already knows everything and is already wise independent of acquired knowledge, learned lessons and experience. You made no distinguishment between consciousness and unconsciousness, but now I see your point, and again, it's okay to admit if you slipped up.
bohdiprana: Think about this, When you nutshell what you just said above here, you're painting a picture of, a path of, awareness and enlightenment. Your higher self is already enlightened by the way...because it is in fact your higher self that informs you in enlightenment...so it already knows. We have the knowledge, it is experience of it that we want.
Yes, I'm aware of how all knowing the higher self is. I've been saying that my whole time here at CS. I'm more inclined to say that it is the existence of it that we want. The point was that the higher self is much more advanced and evolved then our current individual and collective consciousness as physical beings. There is absolutely no way that can be disputed. Even Bashar has contact through channellings with a higher entity---or his higher self.
bohdiprana:
Agreed again. I think what you're saying is right on and that the misunderstanding here is that you don't see my subtle awareness. Experience helps to cement the awareness, even if you're not aware that you're doing it. This is the purpose of meditation. Making your mind aware of whats really going on, so you can deal with it to detachment, seeing it for what it is.
Agreed again. I think what you're saying is right on and that the misunderstanding here is that you don't see my subtle awareness. Experience helps to cement the awareness, even if you're not aware that you're doing it. This is the purpose of meditation. Making your mind aware of whats really going on, so you can deal with it to detachment, seeing it for what it is.
Agreed. Experience does help raise awareness, but one MUST learn from experience. Otherwise there is no raising of a vibration. Mediation is another tool of clearing the static and raising awareness, but that alone is not enough---just as well as learning lessons is not enough. All part of the sum.
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Prana, I think this may clear some things up regarding experience.
From the online dictionary and hopefully this can clear things up because sometimes there is a communication problem with defined terms---you have some uncanny way of redefining words at times:
Experience:
–noun
1. a particular instance of personally encountering or undergoing something: My encounter with the bear in the woods was a frightening experience.
2. the process or fact of personally observing, encountering, or undergoing something: business experience.
3. the observing, encountering, or undergoing of things generally as they occur in the course of time: to learn from experience; the range of human experience.
4. knowledge or practical wisdom gained from what one has observed, encountered, or undergone: a man of experience.
5. Philosophy. the totality of the cognitions given by perception; all that is perceived, understood, and remembered.
–verb (used with object)
6. to have experience of; meet with; undergo; feel: to experience nausea.
7. to learn by experience.
From the online dictionary and hopefully this can clear things up because sometimes there is a communication problem with defined terms---you have some uncanny way of redefining words at times:
Experience:
–noun
1. a particular instance of personally encountering or undergoing something: My encounter with the bear in the woods was a frightening experience.
2. the process or fact of personally observing, encountering, or undergoing something: business experience.
3. the observing, encountering, or undergoing of things generally as they occur in the course of time: to learn from experience; the range of human experience.
4. knowledge or practical wisdom gained from what one has observed, encountered, or undergone: a man of experience.
5. Philosophy. the totality of the cognitions given by perception; all that is perceived, understood, and remembered.
–verb (used with object)
6. to have experience of; meet with; undergo; feel: to experience nausea.
7. to learn by experience.
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bohdiprana: They want you to think there's a god and retribution, judgement something like karma lol ... comon man think... you're part of the illusion thinking here.... think outside the box.
Agreed, with some caveats that are inconsequential at this point.
Agreed again. I don't think I intimated this wasn't true. It is in fact where you find out, or become aware just how messed up the illusion is. (but for a reason that suits our experience) As you know I am a dedicated meditator. Doesn't mean I'm a monk or anything; but I know the more you raise your consciousness, the more truth confronts you.
Agreed, with some caveats that are inconsequential at this point.
Agreed again. I don't think I intimated this wasn't true. It is in fact where you find out, or become aware just how messed up the illusion is. (but for a reason that suits our experience) As you know I am a dedicated meditator. Doesn't mean I'm a monk or anything; but I know the more you raise your consciousness, the more truth confronts you.
Let me tell you about the "Enemy" of CLARITY: This is seen as a fixation of the Assemblage point. lt is when you get someone who has taken a stance mentally that is fixed and unassailable. As the assemblage point is the point where perception is "Assembled" and remembering that perception creates the reality/illusion that we "experience" and that what you seek you "Shall" find, what happens is that the Enemy of CLARITY literaly creates all that is needed to bolster the Fixation. lt does this by interpreting what others say in such a way as to prove that they just don't understand what is being said. And so the fixation is bolstered, and from CLARITY the individual begins again trying to explain to the other why they just don't get the Truth of what is being said. This continues until such time as....For the last phrase Meditate on it
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MGaff: Let me tell you about the "Enemy" of CLARITY: This is seen as a fixation of the Assemblage point. lt is when you get someone who has taken a stance mentally that is fixed and unassailable. As the assemblage point is the point where perception is "Assembled" and remembering that perception creates the reality/illusion that we "experience" and that what you seek you "Shall" find, what happens is that the Enemy of CLARITY literaly creates all that is needed to bolster the Fixation. lt does this by interpreting what others say in such a way as to prove that they just don't understand what is being said. And so the fixation is bolstered, and from CLARITY the individual begins again trying to explain to the other why they just don't get the Truth of what is being said. This continues until such time as....For the last phrase Meditate on it
What is the difference between De-fined and Con-fined? As you said Prana, us "old Souls" are wise in the ways of polarity. So here for you are the poles of awareness, your pole= lnherent Awareness, StressFree's pole= Evolving Awareness...Resistance begets pressure...
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StressFree: I agree that we become more attuned to experience with a heightened/deeper awareness and reaching deeper into the realms of experience---I'm with that all the way, but the point is that without a meaning to that experience, the experience is empty and existing without passion and love is not living. I don't think you chose to incarnate here to live a meaningless existence. There are other planets for that lol...
Other planets. LOL ...Dude when you're more aware, you come to realize that the experience is ALL that is needed to want more of it. Life is meaningless until you give it meaning. Presently mired in this robotic mode you think its all about lessons
It isn't, its about the higher self, creating illusions, to experience what it cannot without a physical body. Don't be afraid. 
the experience is enough in itself!!!!If you knew that you could jump off a bridge, that you could literally shut off your pain receptors in your body and knew that you would not die, that you could then regenerate body parts, you'd sure as hell jump off that bridge for the experience!!! There is no lessons, only experience. IN this body form and this illusion, you are not granted those abilities, so you think you still need lessons. Silly human, don't go jumping off any bridges now.
In response to:
Huh? I was referring to your odd reasoning that we did not come here to learn lessons from the journeys we choose. I just will never buy that. I have never heard that from any source and your assertion is just wrong imo. Nothing personal and that how it will always be since it's the most rational explanation.
Huh? I was referring to your odd reasoning that we did not come here to learn lessons from the journeys we choose. I just will never buy that. I have never heard that from any source and your assertion is just wrong imo. Nothing personal and that how it will always be since it's the most rational explanation.
This is how the flat earth folks think.
it's ok.. you can even call it rational if helps you cope with remaining in the robot forces.. In response to:
Yes, I've been reading about this for years and have been constantly referring to what now seems cliche "we all have our own personal journeys" and that it ties in with the collective journey---or themed experience as you say. I came to this realization many moons ago during my 20's.
Yes, I've been reading about this for years and have been constantly referring to what now seems cliche "we all have our own personal journeys" and that it ties in with the collective journey---or themed experience as you say. I came to this realization many moons ago during my 20's.
So, if you know its predetermined how can you deny that you already know and there is therefore no need for lessons? One cant predetermine without knowledge of where and how that determination is applied. Meat, you have dillusions to crack.
However I will say this, you chose to be subject to these illusions and even to defend them with me..... it's ok meat.... hang on to the magic boat, millions of humans still do... 
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I am sure you are, I forgot there is nothing left to learn because learning is just some illusory need---whether you grow up in a jungle or a civilized society.
drugs again or beer?
You are looking from your silly human view, only. Carpe Diem.
You should stop spinning in circles too, it reminds me of an old catalyst here.