A little conundrum... (123)
jac379: Isn't understandable that she could no longer live with someone who is drinking so heavily? Does the fact that she left him, negate the fact that she spent many, many years as his wife, probably looking after him and putting up with his drinking and maybe his grumpiness/bad temper resulting from a combination of pain and drink?
To the protagonist, he was a lovely old man, but one never knows what goes on behind closed doors.
To the protagonist, he was a lovely old man, but one never knows what goes on behind closed doors.
Maybe he could have dealt with the pain, but she was not a nice lady and she resented him for his health problems and treated him miserabely until finally leaving, by which time he had grown so unccustomed to using alchohol to cope, he was unable to reverse his behavior.
She chose to leave, he chose to disinherit her.
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all this considered if I where that man I would want my last wishes honored.
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jac379: The last sentence of mine, I now realise doesn't read well.
Its meant to mean, if you were the protagonist, would you initiate the conversation to suggest its not fair that she didn't inherit?
Its meant to mean, if you were the protagonist, would you initiate the conversation to suggest its not fair that she didn't inherit?
aha. gotcha now. yes, i probably would
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langleygirl: Wherein did she say that they were divorced? Maybe he made life so miserable for her that she didn't want to live with him anymore. Does that mean that she loses everything that she would have contributed to the marriage as well? A few kind words from a stranger doesn't entitle them to anything. The problem with such a story is that it doesn't give all the details
I don't know much more of the story myself, so I can't elaborate.
I'm inclined to agree with you on your analysis so far, though.
Do you think the moral dilema is altered if the wife is financially secure and the protagonist lives maybe in abject poverty?
Do you think the man's decision has been made out of bitterness, or to try and do some good with his estate?
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jac379: He has other relatives (sisters) that he did not wish to be beneficiaries and no children of his own.
aw then keep it! ur being blessed dont give away a blessing
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beyondtheveil: If he had capacity, then its his choice who he leaves his wordly goods to. If someone wanted me to have something of theirs when they died I'd respect thet intent. I'd also respect due process and if it was contested work with whatever decision was made. Important thing would be the caring behind him giving in the first place, not so much whether you actually get the item ?
Yeah, I like that idea about the thought counting, that's a nice way of looking at it.
But what if the estate would make a more of an impact on the lives of the protagonist's children, than on the wife? Money can be very important if your kids are hungry? Is it morally right for the protagonist to maybe deprive her kids for another moral right?
Would it be morally right for the wife to contest, if for her the estate was luxury and for the protagonist it was necessity?
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lonelywoman55: Jac I have to agree with 4x4. 0n this I know it's hard, some times we dont understand how much a little kindness can mean too someone.Hi Dear
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jac379: I don't know much more of the story myself, so I can't elaborate.
I'm inclined to agree with you on your analysis so far, though.
Do you think the moral dilema is altered if the wife is financially secure and the protagonist lives maybe in abject poverty?
Do you think the man's decision has been made out of bitterness, or to try and do some good with his estate?
I would speculate that the man's decision would have been part partly from bitterness, and probably also for the kind words that he did receive in his last days. If the wife were indeed in good financial shape it still doesn't mean that she wouldn't be entitled to the estate, but I would hope given the man's wish, that the protagonist would at least be given a portion. As well, there is no mention of children - sometimes people are so bitter that they force their loved ones away, doesn't mean that the wife/children (if there were any in fact) should be excluded. Bitterness and hate, can be shown more readily to "loved ones" as opposed to strangers. How often are strangers treated more kindly than our family members, who people supposedly love?I'm inclined to agree with you on your analysis so far, though.
Do you think the moral dilema is altered if the wife is financially secure and the protagonist lives maybe in abject poverty?
Do you think the man's decision has been made out of bitterness, or to try and do some good with his estate?
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langleygirl: Wherein did she say that they were divorced? Maybe he made life so miserable for her that she didn't want to live with him anymore. Does that mean that she loses everything that she would have contributed to the marriage as well? A few kind words from a stranger doesn't entitle them to anything. The problem with such a story is that it doesn't give all the details
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scoutmaster1: there again more info would be nice. maybe she was not a good wife and did all those things, maybe she was a nagging witch to him, perhaps she left with another man.
I don't know these details. Its possible.
Would it be unreasonable if she left for another man, if the husband was a drunk? Everybody has their limits.
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beyondtheveil: Is it for anyone else to judge him ? he can equally have been a complete beeeeeep to one person and a fantastic friend to another. Every dynamic is its own.
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Ocee35: Maybe he could have dealt with the pain, but she was not a nice lady and she resented him for his health problems and treated him miserabely until finally leaving, by which time he had grown so unccustomed to using alchohol to cope, he was unable to reverse his behavior.She chose to leave, he chose to disinherit her.
Yes, I have to admit its my assumption that it was the pain that led him to drink excessively and I don't know that for fact.
He may have been a drinker for other reasons. Those reasons may, or may not have stemmed from the wife's behaviour.
I have to admit to jumping on the femmy bandwagon here and viewing the situation in terms of the hard done by, unappreciated wife.
I'm also doing the same in terms of the protagonist who may be in greater need, though.
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scoutmaster1: all this considered if I where that man I would want my last wishes honored.
Even if those last wishes were unfair?
What if in time he were to realise that it was unfair, had he lived longer?
What if he had realised that it was unfair, but having told the protagonist, felt it would be unfair to change his will?
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langleygirl: I would speculate that the man's decision would have been part partly from bitterness, and probably also for the kind words that he did receive in his last days. If the wife were indeed in good financial shape it still doesn't mean that she wouldn't be entitled to the estate, but I would hope given the man's wish, that the protagonist would at least be given a portion. As well, there is no mention of children - sometimes people are so bitter that they force their loved ones away, doesn't mean that the wife/children (if there were any in fact) should be excluded. Bitterness and hate, can be shown more readily to "loved ones" as opposed to strangers. How often are strangers treated more kindly than our family members, who people supposedly love?
The chap had no children of his own, maybe the protagonist, or her children were a substitute as well, filling a gap. I don't know.
I do agree with you about bitterness and hate being more easily shown to those who are close, though and I too think this is a factor that should be considered.
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time4fun4u: Whether he made it out of bitterness or not,it is his choice,its his estate.
He no doubt did many things for his ex partner,thats what happens in a relationship,it is not done to gain any reward.
Would his wife leave anything to him,should she be the first to go? I would doubt it?
I for one have no contact with my family,as far as they are concerned,i dont exist.Why would i want to leave what i have to them,when they cant even be bothered to keep contact?
I would rather leave it to someone who has show me some kindness.
If you disagree with my opinion,i will change my will,and you wont get it all,as i was going to leave it all to you!
He no doubt did many things for his ex partner,thats what happens in a relationship,it is not done to gain any reward.
Would his wife leave anything to him,should she be the first to go? I would doubt it?
I for one have no contact with my family,as far as they are concerned,i dont exist.Why would i want to leave what i have to them,when they cant even be bothered to keep contact?
I would rather leave it to someone who has show me some kindness.
If you disagree with my opinion,i will change my will,and you wont get it all,as i was going to leave it all to you!
Sorry, I missed this one out. Whether I agree with you, or not depends on whether you have debt, or wealth.
There's a point that I hadn't thought of. What happens if the fella had shed loads of debt? I doubt the wife would contest that!
What could happen to the protagonist in that situation?
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jac379: I have a little story, imagine yourself as the protagonist...
You sometimes stop and chat to an elderly chap in your village/town when out and about. You develop a friendship based on this alone.
The man is unwell and in considerable pain, that over the years gets worse along with his drinking to numb the pain.
Some years go by and one day he tells you that his wife has left him. Do you think that she abandoned him in his time of need, or do you think its understandable that she can't live with him anymore?
The man is understandably distressed and angry, but when you see him out walking you listen and encourage his "moving on" victories and successes. You are aware that he is constantly drinking heavily.
He tells you one day, that he is going to make you the beneficiary of his estate when he dies. Do you give him your details, so that he can do this?
Again time passes, you haven't seen him in a while until a letter comes through your door informing you that he has died and that you are indeed the benificiary of his estate.
Is it fair to accept this? Given his drinking, pain and distress, did he make this decision with a clear mind? If his wife were to contest the will, would you fight it? Would you go to her and say this estate is rightfully yours?
You sometimes stop and chat to an elderly chap in your village/town when out and about. You develop a friendship based on this alone.
The man is unwell and in considerable pain, that over the years gets worse along with his drinking to numb the pain.
Some years go by and one day he tells you that his wife has left him. Do you think that she abandoned him in his time of need, or do you think its understandable that she can't live with him anymore?
The man is understandably distressed and angry, but when you see him out walking you listen and encourage his "moving on" victories and successes. You are aware that he is constantly drinking heavily.
He tells you one day, that he is going to make you the beneficiary of his estate when he dies. Do you give him your details, so that he can do this?
Again time passes, you haven't seen him in a while until a letter comes through your door informing you that he has died and that you are indeed the benificiary of his estate.
Is it fair to accept this? Given his drinking, pain and distress, did he make this decision with a clear mind? If his wife were to contest the will, would you fight it? Would you go to her and say this estate is rightfully yours?
There is no conundrum - he´s made his decision, made his will and that needs to be honoured.
Am I right to assume that wills need to be signed in the presence of others, who are witnesses that the person making the will is of sound mind??
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jac379: Sorry, I missed this one out. Whether I agree with you, or not depends on whether you have debt, or wealth.
There's a point that I hadn't thought of. What happens if the fella had shed loads of debt? I doubt the wife would contest that!
What could happen to the protagonist in that situation?
There's a point that I hadn't thought of. What happens if the fella had shed loads of debt? I doubt the wife would contest that!
What could happen to the protagonist in that situation?
S/he rejects the inheritance. It´s a simple matter of filling in a form and signing it.
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who would want anything for kindness
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Volunteraly disclosed to you,that he is going to nominate you benefisiary of his estate.-His drinking,pain and distress did not influence his decision,i think he decided to give his estate, to the one ,who stood by him in his hour of need. If his wife comes along contesting the will,2 thing you can do,either fight it in court,which is costly,or compromise with his wife,and share it.
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He has other relatives (sisters) that he did not wish to be beneficiaries and no children of his own.