Patriotism (260)
AlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 PostsDuring the British Mandate of Palestine, the Irgun, like their Muslim counterparts occasionally used terrorist tactics against civilians and both used guerilla tactics against the British. Sure, both used bombs and whatever in both cases but the they were two separate types of warfare. Heck, the King David attack killed civilians but was not a terrorist act but rather a military attack by insurgents desigend not to coerce a civilian population but rather force a military objective -the British to leave.
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gleneagle: Ive met people in life who would regard themselves as Patriotic.
But the older I get I see it means different things to different people. What does it mean to you and how has that belief impacted on your life? Your thoughts!!
But the older I get I see it means different things to different people. What does it mean to you and how has that belief impacted on your life? Your thoughts!!
Patriotism is the fast food of self esteem.
It will fill you up, but it ain't healthy.
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who do we call those fighting Qaddafi inside Libya,and what Qaddafi call them???
Albertaghost: So then why do you equate them to patriots and freedom fighters then?
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Albertaghost: During the British Mandate of Palestine, the Irgun, like their Muslim counterparts occasionally used terrorist tactics against civilians and both used guerilla tactics against the British. Sure, both used bombs and whatever in both cases but the they were two separate types of warfare. Heck, the King David attack killed civilians but was not a terrorist act but rather a military attack by insurgents desigend not to coerce a civilian population but rather force a military objective -the British to leave.
I also agree with you.The problem is, a terrorist,and thier followers will never see themselves as terrorists,phycopaths or lunatics,but freedom fighters,patriots or any other title they choose to give themselves.
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time4fun4u: I have to agree with you.You and Albert view it differantly,as do those fighting on opposing sides.
If i was fighting for a cause,i would consider myself a freedom fighter,but to many others,i would be a terrorist,but i would never call myself a terrorist.
If i was fighting for a cause,i would consider myself a freedom fighter,but to many others,i would be a terrorist,but i would never call myself a terrorist.
If you were fighting an army for a cause other than your own theology then I would not call you a terrorist even if you used terrorist methods. Theinsurgents in iraq who placed IEDs were not terrorists but rather insurgents as their intent was to demoralize a military. Bombs in markets designed to keep the population interror and agitated used terrorist tactics against a civilian population for the express purpose of futhering a political goal - toseparate the population fromthe government by taking away and keeping away any confidence they could protect them.
In this way, with the pot boiling they wouldhope that if the military insurgency worked and the US left, they could exploit anopening and take power insome form.
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chris27292729: who do we call those fighting Qaddafi inside Libya,and what Qaddafi call them???
I'd call themrebels Chris. Why on earth would you think different?
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time4fun4u: I have no problem with someone being patriotic.What i have a problem with is those that are blinded by it.
Then it becomes pure Nationalism!------ This thread is Archived ------
time4fun4u: I have to agree with you.You and Albert view it differantly,as do those fighting on opposing sides.
If i was fighting for a cause,i would consider myself a freedom fighter,but to many others,i would be a terrorist,but i would never call myself a terrorist.
If i was fighting for a cause,i would consider myself a freedom fighter,but to many others,i would be a terrorist,but i would never call myself a terrorist.
This is my point exactly - - - simple point of view - - - Dictionary definitions are one thing, and real life is another - - -
If the states would invade my country I'd fight them, any way I could, for states I'd be a terrorist, and for my country I'd be a freedom fighter, cos I would not attack civilians but solely Military targets.So I'd call my self a freedom fighter . . .
By making the enemy demoniacal, you strip him of humanity, then "you" are able to make your soldiers to do what normally they wouldn't ( for example take prisoners ) . . . .
Calling "your enemy" a Terrorist - - - - it is effective way to do so - - - Thou for me Terrorists are the ones targeting civilians ( Should not be shown any respite, but if we go further here, couldn't one call carpet indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets ( Fire bombings of Japan cities, bombing of German and British cities, Bombing of Vietnam and Laos - - state supported terrorism - thou it is called "military tactics" I view any killing of civilians, for what ever reason, when it is solely done "To brake moral" a terrorist act, no matter how you justify it ) - - - - Only the ones targeting strictly military targets are for me not terrorists, but freedom fighters, Partizan's,Guerilla fighters - - - call them what you want, but not terrorists. They fight the army not the people . . . . . Terrorists are cowards, those fighting the army are not - - -
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Conrad73: Then it becomes pure Nationalism!
That goes for religion,politics,whatever.An open mind,willingness to accept differant ideas,to question,surely is more benificial to society.------ This thread is Archived ------
time4fun4u: I also agree with you.The problem is, a terrorist,and thier followers will never see themselves as terrorists,phycopaths or lunatics,but freedom fighters,patriots or any other title they choose to give themselves.
You are trying to humanize somebody that has lost all touch with humanity in order to fulfil their mission - to kill people who in their eyes have sided with the enemy in order to further their goals.
We don't really care how they see themselves other than understand them enough to know how they work and take them out from that knowledge when possible.
Now, as for their enables and leaders, a very different story. They know what they are sending and setting these people up to do.
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Albertaghost: You are trying to humanize somebody that has lost all touch with humanity in order to fulfil their mission - to kill people who in their eyes have sided with the enemy in order to further their goals.
We don't really care how they see themselves other than understand them enough to know how they work and take them out from that knowledge when possible.
Now, as for their enables and leaders, a very different story. They know what they are sending and setting these people up to do.
I am not trying to humanize anyone.They are humans,and have the traits of humans,ie,greed,desire for power,desire to kill ect,but it doesnt alter the fact,you can talk to you are blue in the face,they will not consider themselves as terrorists.I consider them phycopathic,murdering,cowardly,but they wouldnt accept that.We don't really care how they see themselves other than understand them enough to know how they work and take them out from that knowledge when possible.
Now, as for their enables and leaders, a very different story. They know what they are sending and setting these people up to do.
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Albertaghost: to kill people who in their eyes have sided with the enemy in order to further their goals.
I would call this a cowardly act and pure example of Terrorism and I would show no mercy people doing it . . . .
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54xmax: If the states would invade my country I'd fight them, any way I could, for states I'd be a terrorist, and for my country I'd be a freedom fighter, cos I would not attack civilians but solely Military targets.So I'd call my self a freedom fighter . . . -
How could you be a terrorist if you did not attack civilians? In any book you would be an insurgentor freedom fighter.
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Qaddafi call them Al Qaeda terrorists
Albertaghost: I'd call themrebels Chris. Why on earth would you think different?
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54xmax: I would call this a cowardly act and pure example of Terrorism and I would show no mercy people doing it . . . .
That is how terrorists justify thier actions to themselves in order to carry out the will of their theological and strategic masters and enablers.
As well, it is hardly a cowardly act as it takes a lot of dedication and disipline to stage the cell, maintain your cool for months or even years and keep yourself motivated with enough hate and belief in order to kill yourself along with a few others.
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54xmax: This is my point exactly - - - simple point of view - - - Dictionary definitions are one thing, and real life is another - - -
If the states would invade my country I'd fight them, any way I could, for states I'd be a terrorist, and for my country I'd be a freedom fighter, cos I would not attack civilians but solely Military targets.So I'd call my self a freedom fighter . . .
By making the enemy demoniacal, you strip him of humanity, then "you" are able to make your soldiers to do what normally they wouldn't ( for example take prisoners ) . . . .
Calling "your enemy" a Terrorist - - - - it is effective way to do so - - - Thou for me Terrorists are the ones targeting civilians ( Should not be shown any respite, but if we go further here, couldn't one call carpet indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets ( Fire bombings of Japan cities, bombing of German and British cities, Bombing of Vietnam and Laos - - state supported terrorism - thou it is called "military tactics" I view any killing of civilians, for what ever reason, when it is solely done "To brake moral" a terrorist act, no matter how you justify it ) - - - - Only the ones targeting strictly military targets are for me not terrorists, but freedom fighters, Partizan's,Guerilla fighters - - - call them what you want, but not terrorists. They fight the army not the people . . . . . Terrorists are cowards, those fighting the army are not - - -
If the states would invade my country I'd fight them, any way I could, for states I'd be a terrorist, and for my country I'd be a freedom fighter, cos I would not attack civilians but solely Military targets.So I'd call my self a freedom fighter . . .
By making the enemy demoniacal, you strip him of humanity, then "you" are able to make your soldiers to do what normally they wouldn't ( for example take prisoners ) . . . .
Calling "your enemy" a Terrorist - - - - it is effective way to do so - - - Thou for me Terrorists are the ones targeting civilians ( Should not be shown any respite, but if we go further here, couldn't one call carpet indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets ( Fire bombings of Japan cities, bombing of German and British cities, Bombing of Vietnam and Laos - - state supported terrorism - thou it is called "military tactics" I view any killing of civilians, for what ever reason, when it is solely done "To brake moral" a terrorist act, no matter how you justify it ) - - - - Only the ones targeting strictly military targets are for me not terrorists, but freedom fighters, Partizan's,Guerilla fighters - - - call them what you want, but not terrorists. They fight the army not the people . . . . . Terrorists are cowards, those fighting the army are not - - -
The Third Geneva Convention defines prisoners of war(Fighters) to include:
4.1.1 Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict and members of militias of such armed forces
4.1.2 Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, provided that they fulfill all of the following conditions:
* that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
* that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance (there are limited exceptions to this among countries who observe the 1977 Protocol I);
* that of carrying arms openly;
4.1.6 Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
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chris27292729: Qaddafi call them Al Qaeda terrorists
Well take the mislabling up with him then but to me, he is certainly wrong.
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Albertaghost: That is how terrorists justify thier actions to themselves in order to carry out the will of their theological and strategic masters and enablers.
As well, it is hardly a cowardly act as it takes a lot of dedication and disipline to stage the cell, maintain your cool for months or even years and keep yourself motivated with enough hate and belief in order to kill yourself along with a few others.
As well, it is hardly a cowardly act as it takes a lot of dedication and disipline to stage the cell, maintain your cool for months or even years and keep yourself motivated with enough hate and belief in order to kill yourself along with a few others.
Maybe but then they should face the ones that can shoot back - - - women and children can't I may have a bit to simplistic view - - - I can admit that - - - but I am not going to change it in this case - - - For me - - - they are cowards - - -
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54xmax: But to get others to do it, you have to justify it somehow, find a reason that the ones taking the orders would be able to do it - - - - despicable act - - - To be condemned
They find people who have no life or prospect of a life which is why the ME has so many angry young men rife for the picking. They ensure they are devout Muslims and Wahhabi then convert them to Qutbism in order to ensure they view the West as the devil incarnate and those who have contact with the west as Apostates. Jihad is taught and drilled into them over and over again for years along with how the regime leaders are in bed with the Infidels and worthy only of death.
Then, they are taught how to do tasks such as use weapons, send and recieve small amounts of money undetected,communicate, and when ready are sent to be a cell member in some country.
Spiritual leaders are sent every couple of months or so to make sure they have not turned away from the theology and are still motivated for Jihad and this takes a lot of money and risk to fly these people back and forth. Sometimes, some of them will need to return backhome to be reprogrammed or reinforced with the theology but one thing is for sure, they have to be motivated and kept that way sometimes for years.
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54xmax: Maybe but then they should face the ones that can shoot back - - - women and children can't I may have a bit to simplistic view - - - I can admit that - - - but I am not going to change it in this case - - - For me - - - they are cowards - - -
If it makes you feel better to call them names then so be it. In any case, they are not your run of the mill Muslim and, they comprise less than one one hundredth of a percent of the Muslim world.
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