The Next War. ( Archived) (46)

Jun 9, 2015 2:21 PM CST The Next War.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
Second Cold War
In the 2010s, the conflict between the US and Islamic fundamentalists will die down, and a second Cold War, less extensive and shorter than the first, will take place between the United States and Russia. It will be characterized by Russian attempts to expand its sphere of influence into Central and Eastern Europe, coupled with a buildup of Russian military capabilities.

During this period, Russia's military will pose a regional challenge to the United States. The United States will become a close ally to some Central and Eastern European countries, all of whom will be dedicated to resisting Russian geopolitical threats during this period.

Friedman speculates in the book that the United States will probably become a close ally of some Eastern European countries: Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania. Around 2015, a Polish-led military alliance of countries in Eastern Europe will begin to form, which is referred to in the book as the "Polish Bloc."

Ref Wiki
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Jun 9, 2015 2:25 PM CST The Next War.
allthegoodnamest
allthegoodnamestallthegoodnamestLondon, Essex, England UK40 Threads 4,697 Posts
Warnee.
The USA are already in talks with Britain about re-deploring nuclear weapons here.
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Jun 9, 2015 2:28 PM CST The Next War.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
allthegoodnamest: Warnee.
The USA are already in talks with Britain about re-deploring nuclear weapons here.


Yeh I know all
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Jun 9, 2015 2:31 PM CST The Next War.
tomcatwarne: Second Cold War
In the 2010s, the conflict between the US and Islamic fundamentalists will die down, and a second Cold War, less extensive and shorter than the first, will take place between the United States and Russia. It will be characterized by Russian attempts to expand its sphere of influence into Central and Eastern Europe, coupled with a buildup of Russian military capabilities.

During this period, Russia's military will pose a regional challenge to the United States. The United States will become a close ally to some Central and Eastern European countries, all of whom will be dedicated to resisting Russian geopolitical threats during this period.

Friedman speculates in the book that the United States will probably become a close ally of some Eastern European countries: Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania. Around 2015, a Polish-led military alliance of countries in Eastern Europe will begin to form, which is referred to in the book as the "Polish Bloc."

Ref Wiki


Tom the G7 just finished the summit done in Bavaria yesterday.
One wonders what shape our world is going through as military and economic strain starts to build up. Of course Russia will always be eager to exhibit it's prowess just as much as China.
ROB just posted on my post about the extensive military arsenal built by China.
Figure out what's cooking and we can speculate what's going to happen. And soon.
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Jun 9, 2015 2:42 PM CST The Next War.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
lindsyjones: Tom the G7 just finished the summit done in Bavaria yesterday.
One wonders what shape our world is going through as military and economic strain starts to build up. Of course Russia will always be eager to exhibit it's prowess just as much as China.
ROB just posted on my post about the extensive military arsenal built by China.
Figure out what's cooking and we can speculate what's going to happen. And soon.



Dear Lindsay,

I know only too well the threat from the yellow people. My father a Naval officer, said to me many years ago the sleeping dragon will wake up.

But I fear the ruthless ambition of the Russian elite. They don't take prisoners. I have lived next to them in Finland, The people are wonderful but their leaders are psychopathic in their ambitions.

We are lulled to a sense of complacency in the West, but it will come.
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Jun 9, 2015 2:48 PM CST The Next War.
allthegoodnamest
allthegoodnamestallthegoodnamestLondon, Essex, England UK40 Threads 4,697 Posts
Warnee.
Nah, nothing's gonna happen, it's just the "big boys" flexing their military muscles!!
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Jun 9, 2015 2:51 PM CST The Next War.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
allthegoodnamest: Warnee.
Nah, nothing's gonna happen, it's just the "big boys" flexing their military muscles!!


Well I hope you are right All.
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Jun 9, 2015 3:08 PM CST The Next War.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
Those who still take for granted that the world is on an inevitable march towards more liberal democracy should pay close attention to what happens between the Ukraine and Russia. But perhaps this is an out of date remark in and of itself. What I found most depressing about the recent Russell Brand mania was finding out to what degree people in Britain, particularly young people, appear to take both liberal democracy and peace throughout Europe, at least western Europe, for granted.

This attitude is also evident in discussions surrounding whether Britain should remain part of the European Union or not. It is as if peace has come to Europe via some sort of mystical edict, and as such is now eternal and need be based on nothing whatsoever. This, I believe, is the chief reason that the EU is not synonymous with peace and stability in Britain but rather with strictly a helpful single market at best and with resource draining, unnecessary bureaucracy at worst. I also think this is why no one in any of western Europe’s various cognoscenti, in particular the British version thereof, has any real sense of urgency about what is happening in Kiev right now. People seem blind to the fact that a real battle of civilisations and possible futures is being waged.

Vladimir Putin is trying to rebuild the old Russian/Soviet empire and in doing so offering an alternative to the EU model, one that he personally controls. Ideally for him, this would eventually involve pulling the old Eastern Bloc countries that are currently part of the European Union back into the fold: Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria. Whereas the European model is based on open markets, a standard of human rights for all citizens, and rule of law, the Russian model is almost the exact opposite: a market dictated by the whims of Moscow, a legal system entirely run by local despots loyal to Putin, and widespread kleptocracy. Those who think that the countries which are currently EU members such as Poland being pulled back into the Russians’ sphere is wildly unrealistic are being wilfully naïve and underestimating Putin dramatically (there’s a great deal of depreciating the Russian president’s talents going on across the globe at present, oddly). Don’t think it can’t happen; the man has taken on bigger beasts recently and come out of each encounter with his aims being precisely met.



If Putin achieves another victory, as looks inevitable, and the Ukraine is officially and irrevocably drawn into his terrifying quasi-Soviet trading block, it will almost certainly have grave results for the world very few people appear to be seriously contemplating at present. It is very like western attitudes towards Syria; no one can see just how close to home these battles truly are.
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Jun 9, 2015 3:25 PM CST The Next War.
stringman
stringmanstringmanwallaceburg, Ontario Canada649 Threads 1 Polls 7,049 Posts
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Jun 9, 2015 3:33 PM CST The Next War.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
we can't get the video in the UK here but it does't sound very informative fom the sound track.
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Jun 9, 2015 3:57 PM CST The Next War.
Stedan
StedanStedanLiverpool, Merseyside, England UK2 Threads 1,780 Posts
Tom one of those countries ex Communist Russia you missed out Estonia...one of the things a lot of people forget is that when the Russians took these countries back in the 40s during the war they also exported numerous people from those countries back to Russia the descendants of those families have not forgotten because they never returned...the likelihood of those countries going back to that type of regime without bloodshed is very unlikely.
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Jun 9, 2015 4:00 PM CST The Next War.
stringman
stringmanstringmanwallaceburg, Ontario Canada649 Threads 1 Polls 7,049 Posts
tomcatwarne: we can't get the video in the UK here but it does't sound very informative fom the sound track.

it is all audio . tom
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Jun 9, 2015 4:02 PM CST The Next War.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
Stedan: Tom one of those countries ex Communist Russia you missed out Estonia...one of the things a lot of people forget is that when the Russians took these countries back in the 40s during the war they also exported numerous people from those countries back to Russia the descendants of those families have not forgotten because they never returned...the likelihood of those countries going back to that type of regime without bloodshed is very unlikely.


Yes, Thanks for the info, I agree.
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Jun 10, 2015 12:05 PM CST The Next War.
Obstinance_Works
Obstinance_WorksObstinance_WorksManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK3 Threads 1 Polls 3,514 Posts
tomcatwarne: Second Cold War
In the 2010s, the conflict between the US and Islamic fundamentalists will die down, and a second Cold War, less extensive and shorter than the first, will take place between the United States and Russia. It will be characterized by Russian attempts to expand its sphere of influence into Central and Eastern Europe, coupled with a buildup of Russian military capabilities.

During this period, Russia's military will pose a regional challenge to the United States. The United States will become a close ally to some Central and Eastern European countries, all of whom will be dedicated to resisting Russian geopolitical threats during this period.

Friedman speculates in the book that the United States will probably become a close ally of some Eastern European countries: Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania. Around 2015, a Polish-led military alliance of countries in Eastern Europe will begin to form, which is referred to in the book as the "Polish Bloc."

Ref Wiki


A new cold war could be a good thing. The West and Liberal Democracy needs someone to spar against to sharpen our senses, and we need to be reminded of our fallibility.

The preceding generations built castles in the sky and thought they were safe, and all of these crumbled in 2008, and Putin could be the opponent to remind us what the world is and bring us down to earth. The challenge that Putin poses to the West will help new generations resist decadence and the strong aversion to reality that possessed our culture for so many years.
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Jun 10, 2015 12:23 PM CST The Next War.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
Obstinance_Works: A new cold war could be a good thing. The West and Liberal Democracy needs someone to spar against to sharpen our senses, and we need to be reminded of our fallibility.
s.




Would Russia directly attack U.S. forces or other targets? This is unlikely, as America’s military is far more powerful than Moscow’s—something Russian officials admit. Nevertheless, the fact that Russia’s President Vladimir Putin has correctly calculated that the United States would not respond militarily to his actions so far does not mean that he will continue to be correct indefinitely in judging how far he can go. He knows more than a little that isn’t so himself.

This connects directly to a second assumption: that we, Putin, the European Union, Ukraine’s new government and Crimean leaders can collectively control or manage events. The collapse of the February 21 agreement between ousted Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych and his opponents-turned-successors demonstrates unmistakably that this is untrue—the deal fell apart because protestors on the Maidan demanded Yanukovych’s immediate removal when the U.S., the EU and the leaders of the Ukrainian opposition were all on board with the agreement and when Putin and Crimea’s leaders would have reluctantly accepted it. Yanukovych fled Kiev and Ukraine because he feared the mob, not establishment opposition leaders.

The relative absence of violence in Crimea has been remarkable. Conditions in eastern and southern Ukraine have been more troubling, and could get worse. How long can the current relative calm last? If demonstrations and counterdemonstrations devolve into violence, might Russia intervene elsewhere in Ukraine? What would NATO do if Ukraine’s weak army and paramilitary groups resisted? Where is the border between eastern Ukraine and western Ukraine? Would Russia’s general staff knowingly create a Pakistan-style haven for irregular fighters in western Ukraine by stopping their advance at that arbitrary point? Might Moscow attack the arms shipments some advocate or escalate in other ways? Carl von Clausewitz noted that once a war starts, it has its own logic of relentless escalation to extremes. We forget this at our peril.

Many prefer “crippling” sanctions, arguing that draconian economic measures could force Moscow to change course, or just inflict a devastating cost, while avoiding armed conflict. This popular view rests on a third assumption: that sanctions are an alternative to war rather than a prelude to it. Iran, Iraq, North Korea and some others have been prepared to absorb sanctions without attempting armed retaliation—but none is a major power. The last time the United States imposed crippling sanctions on another major power was in 1940–41, when Washington ratcheted up restrictions on trade with Imperial Japan, culminating in a de facto oil embargo and including bans on exports of iron, steel, copper and other metals as well as aviation fuel. Though President Franklin Delano Roosevelt was concerned about provoking Japan, U.S. officials thought that it would be irrational for Tokyo to attack the United States. Japanese leaders saw giving in to Washington as a greater danger. How would Putin respond to similar pressures?

Some take comfort in a critical difference between 1941 and 2014—the United States and Russia are nuclear superpowers. They assume that since nuclear deterrence succeeded in preventing U.S.-Soviet conflict during the Cold War it will do so again. But are Barack Obama and Vladimir Putin prepared to use nuclear weapons? More important, does each believe that the other could use nuclear weapons in an escalating conventional conflict over Ukraine? If either leader believes that the other will flinch, nuclear deterrence of conventional war could suddenly fail. Nuclear deterrence of conventional escalation could also fail. Moscow has already been waving its nuclear card.
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Jun 10, 2015 12:34 PM CST The Next War.
Stedan
StedanStedanLiverpool, Merseyside, England UK2 Threads 1,780 Posts
Hmmm the idea of another Cold War...many seem to advocate or condemn...just really wonder if it went HOT how many of those who are of the age to go into conflict....Would !!!

Very easy to talk a fight...but not many have the conviction to proceed...jmho
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Jun 10, 2015 12:58 PM CST The Next War.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
Stedan: Hmmm the idea of another Cold War...many seem to advocate or condemn...just really wonder if it went HOT how many of those who are of the age to go into conflict....Would !!!

Very easy to talk a fight...but not many have the conviction to proceed...jmho


Have you ever considered e might not have a choicegrin
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Jun 10, 2015 1:15 PM CST The Next War.
Stedan
StedanStedanLiverpool, Merseyside, England UK2 Threads 1,780 Posts
tomcatwarne: Have you ever considered e might not have a choice


This UK...we could always ask the immigrants? The indigenous ones will scarper.....rolling on the floor laughing
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Jun 10, 2015 1:15 PM CST The Next War.
Stedan
StedanStedanLiverpool, Merseyside, England UK2 Threads 1,780 Posts
tomcatwarne: Have you ever considered e might not have a choice


This UK...we could always ask the immigrants? The indigenous ones will scarper.....rolling on the floor laughing
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Jun 14, 2015 7:00 AM CST The Next War.
Ken_19
Ken_19Ken_19Winchester, Virginia USA68 Threads 26 Polls 1,055 Posts
Well this time around the US is not interposing it's ground forces. We will put some heavy equipment there for NATO to use, but currently will not contribute our own soldiers to bleed for Europe. If the European youth choose to join their military, that's good, you got a chance. If however they believe life will be happier or longer under Putin, thy will shall be done.

LoL, one thing is for sure, whatever Putin plans, he better make it so before President Obama leaves office, and he needs to pray one of the ultra right wing Republican candidates doesn't become the next US President. laugh
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