Should dolphins be treated as our equals ( Archived) (47)

Nov 14, 2019 3:09 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
Findings like that have led some distinguished scientists and ethicists to suggest we need to rethink our role as humans. It turns out we are not alone, and we didn't need to journey into space to find out.

Thomas I. White of the Oxford Centre for Animal Ethics and Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles told the AAAS session that dolphins should be regarded as "non-human persons," a phrase that has caught on among some scientists.

"Like humans, dolphins appear to be self-conscious, unique individuals with distinctive personalities, memories and a sense of self, who are vulnerable to a wide range of physical and emotional pain and harm, and who have the power to reflect upon and choose their actions," White told an audience that lingered long after the session had ended because participants wanted to discuss the issue further.

What If Dolphins Were Given 'Person' Status?

Giving "person" status to another creature could embolden radical animal protectionists, thus complicating the lives of scientists who depend on a wide range of animals for laboratory research.

But the evidence that some animals are more like us than we might want to believe is so compelling that Marino, one of the leaders in dolphin research, vowed in the telephone interview that she would now study only dolphins in nature, not captivity.

That's significant, because Marino and a colleague, Diana Reiss, successfully carried out one of the most compelling experiments in the relatively brief history of research into intelligence among marine animals.

Marino's grad school adviser at the State University of New York at Albany, Gordon Gallup, is the scientist who first used a mirror to show that chimps recognize themselves, a major breakthrough in the search for other animals with self-awareness. Intrigued with that work, Marino wanted to expand into some area other than heavily researched primates.
Dolphins Are Self-Aware, Research Indicates

Marino began researching dolphins and determined that they had a brain-to-body-mass ratio that is second only to humans. Human beings have the largest brains, compared to their body mass, of any known animals. Brain size, relative to body size, is believed by many scientists to be a key prerequisite to intelligence, although there are many other factors as well.

So Marino and Reiss turned to the New York Aquarium, which had a couple of male bottlenose dolphins in captivity, to see if they knew who they were.

"We marked them on different parts of their bodies with a magic marker," Marino said. Each dolphin immediately raced to the mirror, "postured in front of the mirror and positioned itself in strange ways to expose the marked part of its body much the same way that you and I would if we passed a wall with wet paint on it. As soon as we get to the bathroom we would look in the mirror and turn around to see if we got any paint on us."

Sometimes the researchers used a marker that left no mark, and the result was quite different. The dolphin would dash to the mirror, but if he could not find a mark, he would immediately move on, ignoring the incident. Marino and other researchers have concluded that the experiment showed the dolphins were aware of who they were and knew it was their body they were checking out.

should they have rights.???
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Nov 14, 2019 3:18 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
tomcatty: Findings like that have led some distinguished scientists and ethicists to suggest we need to rethink our role as humans. It turns out we are not alone, and we didn't need to journey into space to find out.

Thomas I. White of the Oxford Centre for Animal Ethics and Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles told the AAAS session that dolphins should be regarded as "non-human persons," a phrase that has caught on among some scientists.

"Like humans, dolphins appear to be self-conscious, unique individuals with distinctive personalities, memories and a sense of self, who are vulnerable to a wide range of physical and emotional pain and harm, and who have the power to reflect upon and choose their actions," White told an audience that lingered long after the session had ended because participants wanted to discuss the issue further.

What If Dolphins Were Given 'Person' Status?

Giving "person" status to another creature could embolden radical animal protectionists, thus complicating the lives of scientists who depend on a wide range of animals for laboratory research.

But the evidence that some animals are more like us than we might want to believe is so compelling that Marino, one of the leaders in dolphin research, vowed in the telephone interview that she would now study only dolphins in nature, not captivity.

That's significant, because Marino and a colleague, Diana Reiss, successfully carried out one of the most compelling experiments in the relatively brief history of research into intelligence among marine animals.

Marino's grad school adviser at the State University of New York at Albany, Gordon Gallup, is the scientist who first used a mirror to show that chimps recognize themselves, a major breakthrough in the search for other animals with self-awareness. Intrigued with that work, Marino wanted to expand into some area other than heavily researched primates.
Dolphins Are Self-Aware, Research Indicates

Marino began researching dolphins and determined that they had a brain-to-body-mass ratio that is second only to humans. Human beings have the largest brains, compared to their body mass, of any known animals. Brain size, relative to body size, is believed by many scientists to be a key prerequisite to intelligence, although there are many other factors as well.

So Marino and Reiss turned to the New York Aquarium, which had a couple of male bottlenose dolphins in captivity, to see if they knew who they were.

"We marked them on different parts of their bodies with a magic marker," Marino said. Each dolphin immediately raced to the mirror, "postured in front of the mirror and positioned itself in strange ways to expose the marked part of its body much the same way that you and I would if we passed a wall with wet paint on it. As soon as we get to the bathroom we would look in the mirror and turn around to see if we got any paint on us."

Sometimes the researchers used a marker that left no mark, and the result was quite different. The dolphin would dash to the mirror, but if he could not find a mark, he would immediately move on, ignoring the incident. Marino and other researchers have concluded that the experiment showed the dolphins were aware of who they were and knew it was their body they were checking out.

should they have rights.???
Yes, especially equals because of the way they swing golf clubs and perform open heart surgery And how they relieve themselves in private.
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Nov 14, 2019 3:22 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
HarbalEsquire
HarbalEsquireHarbalEsquireDoncaster, South Yorkshire, England UK14 Threads 1 Polls 601 Posts
tomcatty:
should they have rights.???
If they are equal to us humans, then they are capable of determining their rights for themselves. But if we think it is our place to grant them the rights we consider them entitled to, then that implies that we do not really think of them as our equals. dunno
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Nov 14, 2019 3:29 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
Bnaughty
BnaughtyBnaughtyMálaga, Andalusia Spain43 Threads 2 Polls 4,685 Posts
My ex girlfriend was a dolphin, when she left me my life had no porpoisemoping
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Nov 14, 2019 3:46 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
my friend pat the dolphin lives down the harbour, he swims everyday
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Nov 14, 2019 3:52 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
pedro27: my friend pat the dolphin lives down the harbour, he swims everyday
Oh your friend are you coming out of the closet Pedrolaugh laugh laugh laugh laugh cheers
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Nov 14, 2019 4:04 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
tomcatty: Oh your friend are you coming out of the closet Pedro
nope, I fancy his sister, but she is as big as whale, im trying to catch her
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Nov 14, 2019 4:24 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
Friskyone
FriskyoneFriskyoneSanta Fe, New Mexico USA271 Threads 26 Polls 4,631 Posts
I LOVE dolphins! It is well known they are intelligent but many other animals are as well.

Who or what should they be equal too? Humans? They can't do chores or go grocery shopping, etc

dunno
confused
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Nov 14, 2019 4:29 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
Bnaughty
BnaughtyBnaughtyMálaga, Andalusia Spain43 Threads 2 Polls 4,685 Posts
pedro27: nope, I fancy his sister, but she is as big as whale, im trying to catch her
She´ll flip you off
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Nov 14, 2019 4:44 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
Friskyone: I LOVE dolphins! It is well known they are intelligent but many other animals are as well.

Who or what should they be equal too? Humans? They can't do chores or go grocery shopping, etc
They can go to the fish shop, too smart for Tescos, but they do a cool dance. I just love those babies toolaugh laugh laugh
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Nov 14, 2019 5:19 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
Friskyone
FriskyoneFriskyoneSanta Fe, New Mexico USA271 Threads 26 Polls 4,631 Posts
tomcatty: They can go to the fish shop, too smart for Tescos, but they do a cool dance. I just love those babies too
Silly! laugh
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Nov 14, 2019 5:39 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
Not2seriously
Not2seriouslyNot2seriouslyle Marais Paris & SmallTown CO, Ile-de-France France6 Threads 184 Posts
Friskyone: I LOVE dolphins! It is well known they are intelligent but many other animals are as well.

Who or what should they be equal too? Humans? They can't do chores or go grocery shopping, etc
That's it exactly.

I don't buy the critters as equals at all. Orcas are smart like dolphins too, but it's a good idea to leave the water when they come around.

I think this must be one of the new type of scientists. You know, 31 genders and confusion about bathrooms. Next thing you know, they will say to replace all energy sources with wind farms and solar arrays. I think I'd better stay under my rock so I don't get edumacated by them.
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Nov 14, 2019 5:42 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
Friskyone
FriskyoneFriskyoneSanta Fe, New Mexico USA271 Threads 26 Polls 4,631 Posts
Not2seriously: That's it exactly.

I don't buy the critters as equals at all. Orcas are smart like dolphins too, but it's a good idea to leave the water when they come around.

I think this must be one of the new type of scientists. You know, 31 genders and confusion about bathrooms. Next thing you know, they will say to replace all energy sources with wind farms and solar arrays. I think I'd better stay under my rock so I don't get edumacated by them.
hole

laugh
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Nov 14, 2019 5:49 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
Maybe I'm weird but I think many animals are emotionally on
a par with usdunno
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Nov 14, 2019 5:54 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
Bnaughty
BnaughtyBnaughtyMálaga, Andalusia Spain43 Threads 2 Polls 4,685 Posts
Maybe I'm weird but I think many animals are emotionally on
a par with us[/quote
Yes, you´re weird
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Nov 14, 2019 6:03 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
Bnaughty: Maybe I'm weird but I think many animals are emotionally on
a par with us[/quote
Yes, you´re weird
You are right for a changelaugh
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Nov 14, 2019 6:13 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
Friskyone
FriskyoneFriskyoneSanta Fe, New Mexico USA271 Threads 26 Polls 4,631 Posts
tomcatty: Maybe I'm weird but I think many animals are emotionally on
a par with us
I totally agree!thumbs up
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Nov 14, 2019 6:21 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
Bnaughty
BnaughtyBnaughtyMálaga, Andalusia Spain43 Threads 2 Polls 4,685 Posts
They should be given names and post codes
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Nov 14, 2019 6:28 PM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
Bnaughty: They should be given names and post codes
Or just allowed to live.grin
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Nov 15, 2019 8:18 AM CST Should dolphins be treated as our equals
wilbertone33
wilbertone33wilbertone33Dublin, Ireland5 Posts
That's dolphinist!
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