Expensive lies ( Archived) (22)

Oct 29, 2022 1:01 PM CST Expensive lies
Tulefell
TulefellTulefellGothenburg, Vastra Gotaland Sweden104 Threads 5 Polls 3,306 Posts
“Jurors ordered conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on Wednesday, October 13, to pay $965 million to Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting victims' relatives and an FBI agent, who said he turned their loss and trauma into years of torment by promoting the lie that the rampage was a hoax. The nearly $1 billion verdict is the second big judgment against the Infowars host for spreading the myth that the massacre never happened and that the grieving families seen in news coverage were actors hired as part of a plot to take away people's guns.”




What do you think: is it a one-off event or the world is changing and spreading lies might become an expensive activity?
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Oct 29, 2022 3:48 PM CST Expensive lies
Galleryman
GallerymanGallerymanHondarribia, Basque Country Spain109 Posts
Tulefell: “Jurors ordered conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on Wednesday, October 13, to pay $965 million to Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting victims' relatives and an FBI agent, who said he turned their loss and trauma into years of torment by promoting the lie that the rampage was a hoax. The nearly $1 billion verdict is the second big judgment against the Infowars host for spreading the myth that the massacre never happened and that the grieving families seen in news coverage were actors hired as part of a plot to take away people's guns.”




What do you think: is it a one-off event or the world is changing and spreading lies might become an expensive activity?
If anyone wants to spread lies about me, go ahead...just make sure it's a really good one, I want to retireapplause
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Oct 29, 2022 3:55 PM CST Expensive lies
Stan_147
Stan_147Stan_147Roseburg, Oregon USA1 Threads 1,018 Posts
It’s a dangerous precedent to persecute speech, whether you agree or not.


“So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men.” ~ VoltaIre
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Oct 29, 2022 4:07 PM CST Expensive lies
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
Tulefell: “Jurors ordered conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on Wednesday, October 13, to pay $965 million to Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting victims' relatives and an FBI agent, who said he turned their loss and trauma into years of torment by promoting the lie that the rampage was a hoax. The nearly $1 billion verdict is the second big judgment against the Infowars host for spreading the myth that the massacre never happened and that the grieving families seen in news coverage were actors hired as part of a plot to take away people's guns.”




What do you think: is it a one-off event or the world is changing and spreading lies might become an expensive activity?
Seems like an extreme judgement award. I wonder how theses monetary awards were arrived at. they wont bring the unfortunate dead back to life. I did not follow the court procedures. Seems like our Free speach under attack. What does this judgement mean for present and future tweeters? Will twitter be held harmless for content?
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Oct 29, 2022 4:08 PM CST Expensive lies
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
Stan_147: It’s a dangerous precedent to persecute speech, whether you agree or not.


“So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men.” ~ VoltaIre
Exactly!
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Oct 29, 2022 5:47 PM CST Expensive lies
Miss_Cellaneous
Miss_CellaneousMiss_CellaneousWyre, Lancashire, England UK1 Threads 2,444 Posts
Galleryman: If anyone wants to spread lies about me, go ahead...just make sure it's a really good one, I want to retire
I love lies being spread about me, good or bad, they're still lies rolling on the floor laughing But I love um grin I've retired banana
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Oct 29, 2022 7:38 PM CST Expensive lies
KarloradoFL
KarloradoFLKarloradoFLDeLeon Springs, Florida USA50 Threads 3 Polls 9,475 Posts
Miss_Cellaneous: I love lies being spread about me, good or bad, they're still lies But I love um I've retired
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Oct 30, 2022 5:49 AM CST Expensive lies
ChesneyChrist
ChesneyChristChesneyChristManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK7,144 Posts
Everybody lies and the virtue of a free press is that the opposition gets to lie, too. And besides today's establishment is the greatest failure history has ever known are we seriously going to allow that to decide the truth? Gospel truths from the mouth of history's worst ever ruling class? There'll be a civil war.
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Oct 30, 2022 6:15 AM CST Expensive lies
ChesneyChrist
ChesneyChristChesneyChristManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK7,144 Posts
Particularly the men who are going to say hold on I'm not listening to those who make my life worse every day. You need to shower the public, or large part thereof, with ill-gotten gains before you take away their liberties. A million times wrong is this idea of fascism without the spoils.
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Oct 30, 2022 6:46 AM CST Expensive lies
Tiger_Moth
Tiger_MothTiger_MothYeovil, Somerset, England UK23 Threads 2,833 Posts
galrads: Seems like an extreme judgement award. I wonder how theses monetary awards were arrived at. they wont bring the unfortunate dead back to life. I did not follow the court procedures. Seems like our Free speach under attack. What does this judgement mean for present and future tweeters? Will twitter be held harmless for content?
They are trying to set a precedent here and call a halt to all the "conspiracy theorists" Would you like it if someone denigrated the murder of your child by calling it a "hoax"?

Oct 12 (Reuters) - Right-wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones must pay at least $965 million in damages to numerous families of victims of the 2012 Sandy Hook mass shooting for falsely claiming they were actors who faked the tragedy, a Connecticut jury said on Wednesday.

Freedom of speech is one thing but make it the truth not a manifestation .

sad flower
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Oct 30, 2022 6:50 AM CST Expensive lies
ChesneyChrist
ChesneyChristChesneyChristManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK7,144 Posts
People will simply back a populist who lies in ways convenient for them to believe. People don't really care about a cheater if they think he's one of them. But they will care about cheating from someone they don't regard as one of them which is the problem for elite concerns. Those who benefit from the lords of life are tiny in number.
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Oct 30, 2022 7:13 AM CST Expensive lies
ChesneyChrist
ChesneyChristChesneyChristManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK7,144 Posts
The right way to discredit Alex Jones is through a better life for the kids. All this serves as proof that this won't be happening. The authorities are never going to give us a good reason to support them because the future they've got mapped out is terrible, therefore we can only have punishments if we oppose them. They're making the carrot out of stick knowing they have nothing else to offer
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Oct 30, 2022 8:47 AM CST Expensive lies
Ten_of_cupss
Ten_of_cupssTen_of_cupssShumen, Bulgaria2 Threads 1,375 Posts
I wonder how much will the Pharma monopolists be prosecuted to pay for lying about the Covid vaccines?
People died as a result of their lies...
Not to mention the governments that left you crippled financially, mentally and physically worse off...
hmmm
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Oct 30, 2022 3:00 PM CST Expensive lies
Tulefell
TulefellTulefellGothenburg, Vastra Gotaland Sweden104 Threads 5 Polls 3,306 Posts
Stan_147: It’s a dangerous precedent to persecute speech, whether you agree or not.


“So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men.” ~ VoltaIre
I don't know much about USA laws, but it looks like there are restrictions to the freedom of speech. It is not absolute:


I've read the article from my own perspective: some years ago, I've been a target for a vile gossip. If it ever happened to you, then you know how it affect all aspects of your life, including your health. If it never happened to you, then it's not possible to explain. And yes, I'd like to be able to demand proof from those "free-speechers".

There's no freedom without responsibility. Did you read the article? Here's another quote:

"...the victims' relatives, who testified that they were threatened and harassed for years by people who believed the lies told on Alex Jones' show. Strangers showed up at their homes to record them. People hurled abusive comments on social media. Mark Barden testified that conspiracy theorists urinated on the grave of his 7-year-old son, Daniel, and threatened to dig up the coffin..."

Are threats and harassment part of free speech?
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Oct 30, 2022 3:06 PM CST Expensive lies
Tulefell
TulefellTulefellGothenburg, Vastra Gotaland Sweden104 Threads 5 Polls 3,306 Posts
Ten_of_cupss: I wonder how much will the Pharma monopolists be prosecuted to pay for lying about the Covid vaccines?
People died as a result of their lies...
Not to mention the governments that left you crippled financially, mentally and physically worse off...
You don't need to wonder. You can accuse them in EU court.

By the way, did you see an article in the Guardian a few months ago there they tell about investigation into anti-Covid vaccine compagne? They traced its origin to Kreml'. So you can sue the Guardian too. Your chance to become rich and famous :)
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Oct 30, 2022 4:37 PM CST Expensive lies
Boss_1
Boss_1Boss_1Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat, Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur France221 Posts
Tulefell: “Jurors ordered conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on Wednesday, October 13, to pay $965 million to Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting victims' relatives and an FBI agent, who said he turned their loss and trauma into years of torment by promoting the lie that the rampage was a hoax. The nearly $1 billion verdict is the second big judgment against the Infowars host for spreading the myth that the massacre never happened and that the grieving families seen in news coverage were actors hired as part of a plot to take away people's guns.”




What do you think: is it a one-off event or the world is changing and spreading lies might become an expensive activity?


There are types of speech that absolutely MUST be regulated to ensure an equal playing field, and to keep society safe from the worst people in the world like that moron jones.

for "muricas", " U.S. Supreme Court rulings on defamation laws shows what is and isn't protected speech.

Btw, under pure free speech, entire fraud would be legal.
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Oct 30, 2022 5:09 PM CST Expensive lies
Tulefell
TulefellTulefellGothenburg, Vastra Gotaland Sweden104 Threads 5 Polls 3,306 Posts
Boss_1: There are types of speech that absolutely MUST be regulated to ensure an equal playing field, and to keep society safe from the worst people in the world like that moron jones.

for "muricas", " U.S. Supreme Court rulings on defamation laws shows what is and isn't protected speech.

Btw, under pure free speech, entire fraud would be legal.
Well... regulated free speech isn't free. Then, is threat or gossip a speech or something else?

It is not easy and the borders are not given.


Bogy, is it you? If so - then I'm glad to see you :)
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Oct 30, 2022 6:19 PM CST Expensive lies
Stan_147
Stan_147Stan_147Roseburg, Oregon USA1 Threads 1,018 Posts
Tulefell: I don't know much about USA laws, but it looks like there are restrictions to the freedom of speech. It is not absolute:


I've read the article from my own perspective: some years ago, I've been a target for a vile gossip. If it ever happened to you, then you know how it affect all aspects of your life, including your health. If it never happened to you, then it's not possible to explain. And yes, I'd like to be able to demand proof from those "free-speechers".

There's no freedom without responsibility. Did you read the article? Here's another quote:

"...the victims' relatives, who testified that they were threatened and harassed for years by people who believed the lies told on Alex Jones' show. Strangers showed up at their homes to record them. People hurled abusive comments on social media. Mark Barden testified that conspiracy theorists urinated on the grave of his 7-year-old son, Daniel, and threatened to dig up the coffin..."

Are threats and harassment part of free speech?
The 1st Amendment:

‘Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.’

Ratified 1789

This is part of the first ten amendments, that we refer to as The Bill Of Rights. These rights are given by our creator, whether it’s your father in Heaven or your father on Earth. They are not granted by government, they are inalienable. This means you have them from your first breath to your last. They were enumerated and enshrined in our founding documents to remind future leaders NOT to infringe upon them. The result of which would be the slippery slope of tyranny. The very thing that caused the American Revolution. (And why the wording of the 2nd is what it is.)

While there some practical things that should be prohibited, like yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded theater, except when there is an actual fire. The ‘human rights act is actually a limitation on the 1st amendment.

I have followed the cases against Mr. Jones, as my interest derives from having been a professional writer years ago. Mr. Jones was actually deprived of an actual trial, the judge ordered him in default, claiming he did not provide disclosure in a set amount of time. That effectively barred his legal team from presenting a defense. The jury was only tasked with assessing the damages. I am not defending Mr. Jones’s statements or the actions of those whom harassed the plaintiffs.

Simple facts:

1. Mr. Jones did not kill anyone.
2. Mr. Jones did not actually tell his audience to attack or harass anyone.
3. Those who DID threaten and harass, committed crimes. And those are the individuals who should face a jury of their peers. As they alone, are responsible for their actions. Because of the concept of Free Will, the individual chooses their actions.
4. The freedom of the press, includes all of the press, both for and against.
5. Modern “press” is innately biased. It doesn’t matter which “side” you identify.
6. People have stopped questioning what they are sold, by way of words written and images shown.

History and it’s narrative has three sides.

1. What we say happened.
2. What they say happened.
3. What really happened.

The reason is bias. The phrase ‘History is written by the victors’ is a truism. One that you can see if you look closely.

‘Judge a man by his questions, not his answers’ is another quote from Voltaire. He believed in freedom quite passionately. As did the founders of the United States. Though it would be difficult to find unity today.

As far as my experience, I have been threatened, assaulted, stalked, all for voicing my opinion. I have been slandered (verbal) and libeled (written), lied to, lied about
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Oct 30, 2022 6:27 PM CST Expensive lies
Stan_147
Stan_147Stan_147Roseburg, Oregon USA1 Threads 1,018 Posts
Cont’d

And defamed. These things are to be expected, when one publicly espouses their beliefs. As everyone has a right to their own opinions.

My question, is simple.

Since truth is based on facts, and they are derived from evidence. Who is the supreme arbiter of truth? Would a man/woman be able to do this without personal beliefs and biases coloring their perspectives? What is the threshold for evidence?

See, it’s not so simple. It’s not condensed into an opinion piece on a random website.

“Want to know who controls you, look to whom you cannot criticize”, yep, another Voltaire quote.


I could write volumes about this.

Once you can suppress opinions and criticism, you can control the narratives and dictate whatever you want. If you can persecute your enemies for what they say, then you are the tyrant, the oppressor, the boot heel on the throat of freedom.
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Oct 31, 2022 1:15 AM CST Expensive lies
Ten_of_cupss
Ten_of_cupssTen_of_cupssShumen, Bulgaria2 Threads 1,375 Posts
Tulefell: You don't need to wonder. You can accuse them in EU court.

By the way, did you see an article in the Guardian a few months ago there they tell about investigation into anti-Covid vaccine compagne? They traced its origin to Kreml'. So you can sue the Guardian too. Your chance to become rich and famous :)
x.


Looking at your other threads, Tule, I must say you don't put much of a thought into what you are talking about.
Your hatered towards your mother land is alarming too.
Using shady sites to prove nothing but your own satisfaction for fake news.
The truth isn't one sided as Stan says.
You need to do a proper research before jumping on the blame wagon, especially in cases when people have died due to misinformation and pure lies.
As far as I know Russia has its own vaccine and it wasn't approved by your beloved West. People who had it weren't allowed to enter most Western European countries.
Alex Jones didn't kill anyone.
But it seems life of people who died from legal lies are worthless to you...
Enjoy your immortality and righteousness...



bouquet
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